Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[Dr.DonPatch64]

Just asking off topic, why was SmashBoards on Maintenance anyway?

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Leaked images for low-poly K. Rool.

No-I meant those texture object things that always face the camera. lol

Just asking off topic, why was SmashBoards on Maintenance anyway?

Probably just an update. They added a bunch of stuff like this:

 

[JCKirbs]

Well I got nothing, Tho I expect the Next character to be released around fall 2020, that's when the Amiibo will come out

Honestly, I'm getting a little tired of waiting (but I definitely respect Nintendo for thinking about their workers' conditions over plastic and digital software) so hopefully the next character is someone like Geno so then the community will go absolutely insane for one reason or the other; while opening up the floodgates of speculation ever further so then people will stop making senseless arguments against certain other characters for once.

 

[Dr.DonPatch64]

Honestly, I'm getting a little tired of waiting (but I definitely respect Nintendo for thinking about their workers' conditions over plastic and digital software) so hopefully the next character is someone like Geno so then the community will go absolutely insane for one reason or the other; while opening up the floodgates of speculation ever further so then people will stop making senseless arguments against certain other characters for once.

I'm tired too, I would really love Geno to be in Smash, Tho I don't hype myself up for everything, especially since Byleth (Not a bad character by the way, just dissapointing), Any character is fair game, but there should be Characters that people will lose their mind too, Like Crash and Sora

 

[Guynamednelson]

Honestly, I'm getting a little tired of waiting (but I definitely respect Nintendo for thinking about their workers' conditions over plastic and digital software) so hopefully the next character is someone like Geno so then the community will go absolutely insane for one reason or the other; while opening up the floodgates of speculation ever further so then people will stop making senseless arguments against certain other characters for once.

Despite his obscurity, I doubt Geno will be proof that it doesn't have to be about the biggest stars. I've seen predictions that put him alongside the likes of Crash and Steve all the time.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

...so hopefully the next character is someone like Geno so then the community will go absolutely insane for one reason or the other; while opening up the floodgates of speculation ever further so then people will stop making senseless arguments against certain other characters for once.

...while opening up the floodgates of speculation ever further so then people will stop making senseless arguments against certain other characters for once.

...so then people will stop making senseless arguments against certain other characters for once.

lol

Also, I'm calling it now, if Geno gets in, he will be ruled as an exception, and nobody like him will be possible candidates. That and people will assume he disconfirms Waluigi.

 

[SharkLord]

I have no idea who this is or what he does...

...but I love him now.

This is all you need to know
It's only a mod unfortunately, but still

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Honestly, I'm getting a little tired of waiting (but I definitely respect Nintendo for thinking about their workers' conditions over plastic and digital software) so hopefully the next character is someone like Geno so then the community will go absolutely insane for one reason or the other; while opening up the floodgates of speculation ever further so then people will stop making senseless arguments against certain other characters for once.

Actually, the more floodgates open, the more senseless people become.

At least, that's what I've noticed since I first started being active in speculation around 2015.

 

[Dalek_Kolt]

This is all you need to know
It's only a mod unfortunately, but still

I'm disappointed that the bullets don't simply bounce off the enemies.

 

[Megadoomer]

Honestly, I'm getting a little tired of waiting (but I definitely respect Nintendo for thinking about their workers' conditions over plastic and digital software) so hopefully the next character is someone like Geno so then the community will go absolutely insane for one reason or the other; while opening up the floodgates of speculation ever further so then people will stop making senseless arguments against certain other characters for once.

I don't think the inclusion of any character will stop people from making senseless/nonsensical arguments. I've seen people seriously claim that having a spirit still disqualifies a character from being DLC, and that Min Min is the only exception because the director of ARMS asked for her to be included.

Plus, people are still acting like relevancy is something that will keep a character out of Smash in spite of the inclusion of Simon and Richter Belmont, King K. Rool, and Banjo-Kazooie (and, to a lesser extent, Dark Samus) from this game alone.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Plus, people are still acting like relevancy is something that will keep a character out of Smash in spite of the inclusion of Simon and Richter Belmont, King K. Rool, and Banjo-Kazooie (and, to a lesser extent, Dark Samus) from this game alone.

Yeah, it seems like the only things people look at at this point are promotional opportunities or star power. Not saying it's inherently wrong, but there's probably a little bit more to it that we either haven't considered or just don't know about.

 

[Guynamednelson]

Yeah, it seems like the only things people look at at this point are promotional opportunities or star power. Not saying it's inherently wrong, but there's probably a little bit more to it that we either haven't considered or just don't know about.

Even within the realm of promotional opportunities, it's not just what's coming or came out within six months. And I'm not just saying that about ARMS, but also the SNK guest fighter trend, which had been going on for a couple of years by the time Terry got in.

 

[Dalek_Kolt]

I don't think the inclusion of any character will stop people from making senseless/nonsensical arguments. I've seen people legitimately claim that having a spirit still disqualifies a character from being DLC, and that Min Min is the only exception because the director of ARMS asked for her to be included.

Plus, people are still acting like relevancy is something that will keep a character out of Smash in spite of the inclusion of Simon and Richter Belmont, King K. Rool, and Banjo-Kazooie (and, to a lesser extent, Dark Samus) from this game alone.

I think the only argument that's been definitively quashed forever is the issue of scale, and I'm pretty sure that's just because Mother Brain and Andross don't have enough fans to seriously rally them for Smash.
Least we have mods if we want to see Optimus Prime or Godzilla in Smash.

 

[JCKirbs]

Actually, the more floodgates open, the more senseless people become.

At least, that's what I've noticed since I first started being active in speculation around 2015.

Now that I think about it, you've got a point.
Now that the floodgates have opened wide for 3rd Party characters (along with the novelty of "The Greatest Fighter Crossover Ever) that's all people care about, and now 1st Parties are treated as "lesser" characters in comparison to them.

"Lesser" characters in a Nintendo Character-Originated fighting game.

I bet there are other examples revolving around these floodgates, but that one in particular is the one I find the most annoying,

I don't think the inclusion of any character will stop people from making senseless/nonsensical arguments. I've seen people legitimately claim that having a spirit still disqualifies a character from being DLC, and that Min Min is the only exception because the director of ARMS asked for her to be included.

Plus, people are still acting like relevancy is something that will keep a character out of Smash in spite of the inclusion of Simon and Richter Belmont, King K. Rool, and Banjo-Kazooie (and, to a lesser extent, Dark Samus) from this game alone.

Well, this isn't the first time I've conjured up false hope for the ever deteriorating Smash Community, but alas.

 

[N3ON]

Relevancy, or lack thereof, is something that will keep a character out of Smash. Just because a few characters have enough other merits to overcome the hindrance doesn't mean all will.

Look at Isaac. If his games had happened recently, they'd definitely be successful enough and plentiful enough to get him in. It's certainly not a lack of popularity that's his biggest problem. So why isn't he in? Because his games are becoming distant and he's not popular enough to outweigh that.

He lacks "relevance". By which people really just mean recency, but whatever.
I mean K. Rool was relevant, he was the primary antagonist of the DK series. He just wasn't recent.

 

[SKX31]

Actually, the more floodgates open, the more senseless people become.

At least, that's what I've noticed since I first started being active in speculation around 2015.

Giggles like a madman while inching closer to the Goku button.

Yeah, it seems like the only things people look at at this point are promotional opportunities or star power. Not saying it's inherently wrong, but there's probably a little bit more to it that we either haven't considered or just don't know about.

While I'd warn against confirmation bias, there are some series that are slept on. Looks at Ni No Kuni

Even within the realm of promotional opportunities, it's not just what's coming or came out within six months. And I'm not just saying that about ARMS, but also the SNK guest fighter trend, which had been going on for a couple of years by the time Terry got in.

That reminds me - that trend's been going on since at least Geese in Tekken 7, and it has continued. If I may awkwardly segue:

Tencent and SNK have previously collaborated in this way, but with SNK characters in Tencent games.

For example, Mai Shiranui was a playable character in Honor of Kings.

Makes sense that an Honor of Kings character would join an SNK game at some point. pic.twitter.com/zVUV3oZUNJ

— Daniel Ahmad (@ZhugeEX) July 30, 2020

(Would this Mai design be okay for good boys and girls?)

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Now that I think about it, you've got a point.
Now that the floodgates have opened wide for 3rd Party characters (along with the novelty of "The Greatest Fighter Crossover Ever) that's all people care about, and now 1st Parties are treated as "lesser" characters in comparison to them.

"Lesser" characters in a Nintendo Character-Originated fighting game.

I bet there are other examples revolving around these floodgates, but that one in particular is the one I find the most annoying,

If anything, Geno getting in means one of the most infamous groups of tinfoil hat wearers will finally get their character.

That could honestly really freshen up the speculation because it's honestly tiring to see how far some of them are willing to stretch things to say Geno's in.

 

[TwiceEXE]

If we're talking about speculation floodgates, the one thing I'm pretty sure won't burst open is the protagonist precedent. Across 2 games the only newcomer added as DLC that isn't the protagonist of their game is Piranha Plant, who is rumored to have been meant for the base game. Everyone else has fit into that box and there isn't any reason to believe that will suddenly change.

I could see the exception for Pokemon as there really isn't a protagonist other than you the player, and Trainer is already in the game. And mayyyybe Geno if Nintendo decides that the fanbase is big enough. But I would be shocked to see a non protagonist outside of those two.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

(Would this Mai design been for good boys and girls?)

I think it would have been fine. Looks lovely too.

And mayyyybe Geno if Nintendo decides that the fanbase is big enough.

Geno doesn't count because Mario is in the game.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

I think it would have been fine. Looks lovely too.


Geno doesn't count because Mario is in the game.

Shame it was a bit too late...

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Shame it was a bit too late...

Whelp. Nothin' to do but right this wrong by making her playable.

 

[N3ON]

If we're talking about speculation floodgates, the one thing I'm pretty sure won't burst open is the protagonist precedent. Across 2 games the only newcomer added as DLC that isn't the protagonist of their game is Piranha Plant, who is rumored to have been meant for the base game. Everyone else has fit into that box and there isn't any reason to believe that will suddenly change.

I could see the exception for Pokemon as there really isn't a protagonist other than you the player, and Trainer is already in the game. And mayyyybe Geno if Nintendo decides that the fanbase is big enough. But I would be shocked to see a non protagonist outside of those two.

Well, if it's a new series perhaps, but if characters come from an existing series the "protagonist principle" doesn't really apply.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

If we're talking about speculation floodgates, the one thing I'm pretty sure won't burst open is the protagonist precedent. Across 2 games the only newcomer added as DLC that isn't the protagonist of their game is Piranha Plant, who is rumored to have been meant for the base game. Everyone else has fit into that box and there isn't any reason to believe that will suddenly change.

I could see the exception for Pokemon as there really isn't a protagonist other than you the player, and Trainer is already in the game. And mayyyybe Geno if Nintendo decides that the fanbase is big enough. But I would be shocked to see a non protagonist outside of those two.

I don't think "protagonist only" has been a rule for the DLC, honestly.

It's just basic logic to add a character that is seen all the time in promotional artwork and also happens to be playable and have a major role, because it's the best way to market and represent a game.

So really, it's more of a guideline than a hard rule, as we can see with how Sakurai was thinking of using Slime as a backup plan if he couldn't get Hero. Sure, Slime's the mascot, but at the end of the day, he's still basically the Goomba of Dragon Quest, not a protagonist.

 

[Wunderwaft]

Also, I'm calling it now, if Geno gets in, he will be ruled as an exception, and nobody like him will be possible candidates. That and people will assume he disconfirms Waluigi.

While it isn't an explicit deconfirmation, I find it hard to believe that we're getting two Mario characters in the same pass, especially since they both share the same reasoning of fan demand. If Geno does get in I don't see Waluigi making it in as well. It's one or the other.

 

[TwiceEXE]

I don't think "protagonist only" has been a rule for the DLC, honestly.

It's just basic logic to add a character that is seen all the time in promotional artwork and also happens to be playable and have a major role, because it's the best way to market and represent a game.

So really, it's more of a guideline than a hard rule, as we can see with how Sakurai was thinking of using Slime as a backup plan if he couldn't get Hero. Sure, Slime's the mascot, but at the end of the day, he's still basically the Goomba of Dragon Quest, not a protagonist.

Sure. I'm not stating it is a hard rule that can never change. I'm saying "This thing has been what has happened all the time previously, it is more likely that things continue this way than not". Like you said, it's logical to add protagonists as DLC and Nintendo has picked them as the DLC characters so far. I think Nintendo is going to continue to be logical and add 5 more protagonists, with the possibility of the exceptions I stated.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Sure. I'm not stating it is a hard rule that can never change. I'm saying "This thing has been what has happened all the time previously, it is more likely that things continue this way than not". Like you said, it's logical to add protagonists as DLC and Nintendo has picked them as the DLC characters so far. I think Nintendo is going to continue to be logical and add 5 more protagonists, with the possibility of the exceptions I stated.

Now watch as they reveal Nightmare from Soulcalibur in the lineup, confusing everyone

let me dream, dammit

 

[Idon]

Now watch as they reveal Nightmare from Soulcalibur in the lineup, confusing everyone

let me dream, dammit

Pretty sure when you're on the logo of the game, you override the protagonist.

Same thing with Mr. Heihachi Mishima if he wasn't a Mii costume right now.

 

[Dinoman96]

Honestly if Geno really does get in, I'll consider Waluigi a lock for the next Smash.

 

[7NATOR]

Well guys, thinking about it, I got a new fan rule that I haven't seen many people bring up

"If a New Company debuts with Non-Playable character Content, they won't get a character in that cycle"

We've Never seen a company debut with Content that's not a Playable character and get a Playable character afterwards, in the Same base game cycle, or DLC Cycle

If this rule is True, this would deconfirm these companies/Franchises for FP2

Bethasda
Arc System Works
Ubisoft
Warframe
Undertale
Cuphead

Thoughts?

 

[Evil Trapezium]

You know, Small Battlefield has got me thinking. Do you think there is a chance we'll see more Battlefield formations in the future? Like for example a Battlefield with only one platform or a battlefield with four platforms in the formation of the Galeem/Dharkon fights?

What kind of Battlefield formations do you want to see?

 

[Dinoman96]

You know, Small Battlefield has got me thinking. Do you think there is a chance we'll see more Battlefield formations in the future? Like for example a Battlefield with only one platform or a battlefield with four platforms in the formation of the Galeem/Dharkon fights?

What kind of Battlefield formations do you want to see?

I think a Battlefield version of Smashville would be nice. We could finally be free of Animal Crossing's accursive music.

Call it Battleville.

 

[Hydreigonfan01]

Well guys, thinking about it, I got a new fan rule that I haven't seen many people bring up

"If a New Company debuts with Non-Playable character Content, they won't get a character in that cycle"

We've Never seen a company debut with Content that's not a Playable character and get a Playable character afterwards, in the Same base game cycle, or DLC Cycle

If this rule is True, this would deconfirm these companies/Franchises for FP2

Bethasda
Arc System Works
Ubisoft
Warframe
Undertale
Cuphead

Thoughts?

That's not new, people mention that as a possibility. It would be odd to not have Doomguy and a Vault Boy Mii Costume not come together in a challenger pack.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

You’d also think they’d include the River City Ransom Spirits with like Sol Badguy or something

 

[N3ON]

Honestly if Geno really does get in, I'll consider Waluigi a lock for the next Smash.

I think Waluigi is going to get in by next Smash whether Geno arrives or not. I think at this point the outcry for Waluigi is pretty unmissable, even to Nintendo. And I think whatever kept him out so far, the waves of demand will cause them to relent.

I'm not sure if everyone realizes how demanded Waluigi has become for Smash in the circles slightly less invested than the online ones who bother about with characters significantly less well known than ol WAAA.

 

[Invisible Shiny Bulbasaur]

Relevancy, or lack thereof, is something that will keep a character out of Smash. Just because a few characters have enough other merits to overcome the hindrance doesn't mean all will.

Look at Isaac. If his games had happened recently, they'd definitely be successful enough and plentiful enough to get him in. It's certainly not a lack of popularity that's his biggest problem. So why isn't he in? Because his games are becoming distant and he's not popular enough to outweigh that.

He lacks "relevance". By which people really just mean recency, but whatever.
I mean K. Rool was relevant, he was the primary antagonist of the DK series. He just wasn't recent.

Agreed. I think Golden Sun is a great example of a series whose entries have always been released too early or too late to be seriously considered for Smash.
The first game was released shortly before Melee, the second about five years before Brawl, which featured three newcomers inspired by GBA games but all from established series. Then the third game was released late in life of the Nintendo DS.

I think Isaac's best chance to make the roster would have been if a Golden Sun game had been a launch title for either DS or 3DS, and sold about as well as, say, Xenoblade Chronicles.

 

[JCKirbs]

If anything, Geno getting in means one of the most infamous groups of tinfoil hat wearers will finally get their character.

That could honestly really freshen up the speculation because it's honestly tiring to see how far some of them are willing to stretch things to say Geno's in.

Geno fans mean well, but those theories of theirs are certainly bizarre at times... so it would honestly be for the best if they finally got their character after all this time. (Especially since I doubt that both Geno fans and Non-Geno fans want to go another round of Geno speculation for the next Smash entry).

Relevancy, or lack thereof, is something that will keep a character out of Smash. Just because a few characters have enough other merits to overcome the hindrance doesn't mean all will.

Look at Isaac. If his games had happened recently, they'd definitely be successful enough and plentiful enough to get him in. It's certainly not a lack of popularity that's his biggest problem. So why isn't he in? Because his games are becoming distant and he's not popular enough to outweigh that.

He lacks "relevance". By which people really just mean recency, but whatever.
I mean K. Rool was relevant, he was the primary antagonist of the DK series. He just wasn't recent.

Characters like Ridley, K. Rool, and Banjo only seemed to be considered and chosen because of sheer fan-demand over anything else, so I could only imagine that it would apply to certain other legacy characters as well.

 

[cashregister9]

You’d also think they’d include the River City Ransom Spirits with like Sol Badguy or something

I don't think they would because at least with Terry, SamSho, Ikari Warriors and Psycho Soldier are in the same universe, EDIT: and the characters appear in KOF, There is no relation between River City and Guilty Gear the only thing they have in common is the fact that they are made by ArcSys. That would be like putting Kid Icarus spirits in a Mario challenger pack. (Unless I completely missed your point)

 

[SpectreJordan]

Now that I think about it, you've got a point.
Now that the floodgates have opened wide for 3rd Party characters (along with the novelty of "The Greatest Fighter Crossover Ever) that's all people care about, and now 1st Parties are treated as "lesser" characters in comparison to them.

"Lesser" characters in a Nintendo Character-Originated fighting game.

I bet there are other examples revolving around these floodgates, but that one in particular is the one I find the most annoying,


Well, this isn't the first time I've conjured up false hope for the ever deteriorating Smash Community, but alas.

It’s not third parties entirely. The majority of the most popular Nintendo characters are already in the game. It makes sense that most people would move onto third parties instead of tertiary side characters or characters from long dormant, small series.

I’m not saying it’s wrong to want characters like that. But it shouldn’t be expected that a lot of people would be excited for niche characters like that.

 

[Dinoman96]

I don't think they would because at least with Terry, SamSho, Ikari Warriors and Psycho Soldier are in the same universe, EDIT: and the characters appear in KOF, There is no relation between River City and Guilty Gear the only thing they have in common is the fact that they are made by ArcSys. That would be like putting Kid Icarus spirits in a Mario challenger pack. (Unless I completely missed your point)

I think the point is that they wouldn't give a company's involvement in Smash away like that if they were going to get a character later.

It'd be the equivalent of doing a Minecraft spirit event or something before Banjo got announced.

 

[cashregister9]

I think the point is that they wouldn't give a company's involvement in Smash away like that if they were going to get a character later.

It'd be the equivalent of doing a Minecraft spirit event or something before Banjo got announced.

I get it now, I'm just a goof