Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

cosmicB

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I understand your point, but I don't think you should go by sales alone when judging how "big" a series is.

Splatoon shouldn't be included in this list, because while it hasn't surpassed Tales yet, I'd definitely say it's the bigger franchise. Tales has been around since the mid 90's, and it's accumulated about 20 million sales. Splatoon is five years old, and it's already past 15 million.
This is fair. Something having legacy and longevity doesn't necessarily mean each individual release is a crazy seller, and recency bias is also very much a thing. Like Persona is probably more recognizable than Tales at this point. Plenty of series have died throughout the years, but many have also survived in their comfortable little cult following of getting six digit sales numbers per entry as opposed to the younger "bigger" stuff that managed to break that 7 figure gap and enter the "niche mainstream" realm. Sometimes they don't even make it to 100k like the Atelier series which has also been around since the mid 90s, and is only really starting to break out now thanks to Ryza which imo would put the franchise where Persona was after 3.

All that said, I still think it's ridiculous to downplay Tales legacy and influence on the genre.
 
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CapitaineCrash

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I mean, I'm going to play devil's advocate here since I really don't want an Overwatch rep, but ARMS is both younger and was deader than Overwatch by the time it was revealed for smash bros. Basically I don't think that series age is too much of a factor in potential character selection.
That's true, but I feel like the criteria for third party should be more strict than first party. Like, if Arms was a multiplatform third party games with the same success it has now I doubt it would be in Smash.
 

MooMew64

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That's true, but I feel like the criteria for third party should be more strict than first party. Like, if Arms was a multiplatform third party games with the same success it has now I doubt it would be in Smash.
Not to be rude, but isn't that kind of gatekeeping? I don't think the size or popularity of a series should matter, honestly. I think all that should matter is if the character can bring fun gameplay and interesting content, personally.
 

SKX31

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Perkilator

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Let us be realistic and serious:
Going from Fire Emblem to Sakura Wars is a ridiculous downgrade. Fire Emblem is one of the most iconic and influential tactical RPG/dating sim series of all time together with any other of its genre. No offense to Sakura Wars fans but Sakura Wars is pretty much just the more popular of many flavor of the month visual novel series. Going from FE to Sakura Wars is a comical downgrade. Awfully sticks out. Do we really need this bootleg Marth?

(I'm just being facetious, I really want Sakura.)
 

Calamitas

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Real talk though, there really are a lot of Kid Icarus characters in Uprising alone that would make for great additions to Smash.
 

Dark Bagel

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Real talk though, there really are a lot of Kid Icarus characters in Uprising alone that would make for great additions to Smash.
Even though I stan practically every major and supporting character in Kid Icarus Uprising soley due to their charm and personality quirks alone, a lot of 'em also have abilities and powersets that can make for a variety of great fighters, bosses, assist trophies, and stage hazards. It'd be neat having something like Pyrrhon throwing his Pyro-blaster and Pyro-Snake attacks in a hypothetical Aurum Island stage, where you're caught in the crossfire between him and Aurum troops; and could you just IMAGINE having a fully-fledged Hades boss fight where he's constantly tossing a barrage of devastating dark lasers, black holes, and energy blasts at you? And all the while he'll be mercilessly trolling the player whilist doing so, in typical Hades fashion. Kinda like Metal Face's taunts in Gaur Plains, only with MUCH more snark, befitting the Lord of The Underworld.
 

whitesnake

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Need more 1st reps from popular games that have shown staying power

Dante
Sora
Crash
Master Chief
Rayman etc
 

J. Bond

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19 out of 76 fighters are sword fighters if we count the Pits, 13 of which are unambiguously anime. The "ew, too many anime swordfighters" complaint never made sense to me. The next 5 DLC characters could all be anime swordfighters (I could even think of great choices off the top of my head to fill those spots) and they'd still be underrepresented.

And I really don't see what you're saying with the "not AS iconic" stance. Of the DLC fighters so far, Tales would be the 2nd most iconic one there is only being beaten by Dragon Quest. We're talking about one of the most historically important ARPG franchises out there.
People have been complaining about too many swordfighters since Brawl. If a complaint is very widespread it usually has some base, you can't wave it off, if people complain about it, it's there.

That Tales is more iconic than Banjo-Kazooie or SNK is an extremely questionable claim, your view seems to be skewed by bias.
 

PeridotGX

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Find me one person that, if asked, would seriously defend Byleth as a good choice.
I think Byleth is a good choice. I think having 8 Fire Emblem characters is a bit much, but that's not really Byleth's fault, but the characters that preceded him. I enjoyed what I've played of 3H, and he's fun to play as in Smash.
You'd think after 8 months people would have gotten over Byleth getting into the game by now, but here we are
Spite is a powerful emotion. Look at me, I still get pissed when I hear Incineroar's name, and it's almost been two years!

I want my bird...
 

Cosmic77

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Even though KI does have a lot of good options, I feel like it should stick with the three it currently has until one of two things happens.

1. A KI character gets a noticeable amount of support; so much so that they would unquestionably be one of the most popular requests.
2. The franchise gets a new entry.

I love EarthBound, but it's really hard to justify it getting a new character who isn't an Echo (and even then, I feel like that Echo should be made less of a priority than most of the other options for Echoes) when the series hasn't done squat in several years. Same thing with KI. Won't be long until Uprising is a decade old, so unless Viridi suddenly gets on the same tier as Ridley or K. Rool, I think the limited newcomer slots should be reserved for more popular characters and more active franchises. Adding moderately popular side characters from inactive franchises just feels very "bottom of the barrel".
 
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PLANTMAN

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Find me one person that, if asked, would seriously defend Byleth as a good choice.
That would be me. I actually wanted to see byleth get in
And I have proof
 

NonSpecificGuy

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GoodGrief741

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I don't see Gatekeeper there so trash roster

(I didn't actually look too closely at the roster because I'm still getting through TH and I don't want to get spoiled so sorry if he's actually there, it's just that FE fans are way too liberal with discussing spoilers)
Real talk though, there really are a lot of Kid Icarus characters in Uprising alone that would make for great additions to Smash.
Kid Icarus is kinda like Earthbound or Kirby where it simply has too many characters that are important to the plot, popular, and have crazy Smash moveset potential for the size of the series. Probably because they're pretty plot-heavy as far as Nintendo games go. Quite a shame really.
 

Creeparka Sisters

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Shaking my head. It really ain’t that hard to spell Magnus correctly.
I'm sad to see no love for Medusa.

But yeah, five cool options? Not bad for such a small series~

...I debate whether Eggplant Wizard should be playable or not. >.>
 
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CapitaineCrash

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Not to be rude, but isn't that kind of gatekeeping? I don't think the size or popularity of a series should matter, honestly. I think all that should matter is if the character can bring fun gameplay and interesting content, personally.
I didn't intend to gatekeep, sorry if it sound like it. I just wanted to give my personnal opinion on the subject. I agree that Tracer could be fun and bring a cool stages (although I wonder what music she would bring because Overwatch don't have a lot). It's just that if I have to choose a fps rep, I'd rather have Doom or Halo because both of them have a huge history and are still relevant.
 

Dalek_Kolt

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Now that's one major notable thing. Calling it a halberd. It makes sense, considering the design. It also is widely different from his regular Trident.

Perhaps he could have both weapons, via his palette swaps. Like his classic ALTTP look and redesigned Toon style? Doesn't he use the regular Trident only in the Toon style games-wise. I know he has the Trident in the Comics. As well as various artwork. Besides that, have you rigged a regular Trident model too for him to use? Assuming it was in the files or is easy enough to make.
Couldn't find it, so I appropriated a trident from A Link Between Worlds.
1596321150903.png
 

cosmicB

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People have been complaining about too many swordfighters since Brawl. If a complaint is very widespread it usually has some base, you can't wave it off, if people complain about it, it's there.

That Tales is more iconic than Banjo-Kazooie or SNK is an extremely questionable claim, your view seems to be skewed by bias.
A large amount of people complaining about something doesn't mean that complaint has validity. That's a fallacy along the same lines of Tyranny of the Majority. I know people that were complaining about "too many Fire Emblem characters" in Melee. Does that mean their complaints should have been given any room to breathe? Of course not. Like, do you think the tens of thousands of people saying "who's this no name?" in regards to Eleven and the other DQ heroes have validity in that view?

SNK I'll give you, but you're damn right Tales is more iconic than Banjo Kazooie. Banjo's legacy was a minor bump in design philosophy for the 3D platformer collectathon before the genre went into stasis for over a decade outside of Mario and still has just barely broken out of it. Tales on the other hand is a codifier for a bunch of well-regarded aspects of ARPGs that have been utilized elsewhere including in franchises that have since eclipsed it (and even in some fighting games). While not quite to the same extent, the LMBS is to ARPGs what ATB is to command-based RPGs. And on top of all that, it actually survived its entire continuing career without any real lulls unlike its contemporaries like Star Ocean and Mana.

Edit: Just to be clear, this isn't meant to downplay Banjo Kazooie. It's a fantastic game (I'm not as much a fan of Tooie) that probably would have had an incredibly strong legacy had history with Rare been just a little different. Unfortunately, it was a flash in the pan and its characters are considered "classic" more than iconic, which Smash is no stranger to. It's not an opinion on quality and my favorite game of all time (Chrono Trigger) is in a similar state of existence.
 
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Creeparka Sisters

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Couldn't find it, so I appropriated a trident from A Link Between Worlds.
View attachment 280849
Though the trident and halberd have similar top design, they're so clearly different it hurts.

Though it helps they have some different functions. The halberd is more often used like a boomerang/chakram at times, while the trident has a lot more thrusting power. They both are great for slashing actions.

Also, what is that orange circle on his right thumb?
 

Gribbo

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Tales isn't as big as DQ
I think Byleth is a good choice. I think having 8 Fire Emblem characters is a bit much, but that's not really Byleth's fault, but the characters that preceded him. I enjoyed what I've played of 3H, and he's fun to play as in Smash.

Spite is a powerful emotion. Look at me, I still get pissed when I hear Incineroar's name, and it's almost been two years!

I want my bird...
526x297.jpeg

Your bird? You can't say that!
 

Digital Hazard

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I want my bird...
What you talking of? We already have enough bird representation in the roster.
:ultfalco::ultduckhunt::ultbanjokazooie:
smh the Sakurai bias excess is too much on this one. There should just be one and I hope they get cut next game to make space for actually deserving slots for characters that are zebras and palm trees.
 

LiveStudioAudience

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What you talking of? We already have enough bird representation in the roster.
:ultfalco::ultduckhunt::ultbanjokazooie:
smh the Sakurai bias excess is too much on this one. There should just be one and I hope they get cut next game to make space for actually deserving slots for characters that are zebras and palm trees.
Someday we'll the glorious reveal of Kaepora Gaebora, and, fitting for someone with a clear anti-avian bias, you'll be the one eating crow.
 

PeridotGX

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We already got Kazooie! That's all the bird representation we need. :4pacman:
What you talking of? We already have enough bird representation in the roster.
:ultfalco::ultduckhunt::ultbanjokazooie:
smh the Sakurai bias excess is too much on this one. There should just be one and I hope they get cut next game to make space for actually deserving slots for characters that are zebras and palm trees.
But are those birds undead archers? That's what I thought. I want MY bird.
 

N3ON

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What you talking of? We already have enough bird representation in the roster.
:ultfalco::ultduckhunt::ultbanjokazooie:
smh the Sakurai bias excess is too much on this one. There should just be one and I hope they get cut next game to make space for actually deserving slots for characters that are zebras and palm trees.
A dog and a bear before the King. Truly shameful.
 

Michael the Spikester

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If any Kid Icarus character should come next its Medusa. Arguably to Pit as Bowser, King K. Rool, Ridley and Ganondorf are to Mario, Donkey Kong, Samus and Link. That and she could work as a semi-clone for Palutena (Assuming we don't get an Echo Pack).

Plus more the reason to ship her with King K. Rool.
I'm sad to see no love for Medusa.
Yo Medusa supporter here.
 
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