Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[SharkLord]

Be honest, you don't WANT ads. And that's exactly what Byleth as a choice is, an ad, nothing more, nothing less.

I already got the game and enjoyed it, so I just let the ad play out instead of skipping or reloading the page.

imo Corrin was the most blatant shill pick as their game wasn't even out in the West yet

but I digress. shill picks aren't inherently a bad thing as they can drive attention to their source material

Yeah, the only problem is that the game that's being shilled might end up having some issues coughcoughBABYREALMcoughcough. It doesn't help that the games that are regularly "shilled" are Pokemon and Fire Emblem, and fans of other series are going to feel left out from that. Why not shill Golden Sun or F-Zero for a change, assuming there's actually something for them; They actually need the shilling.

 

[GoodGrief741]

How will I cope the loss of such a polite and mature user?

That's just like Bond, always leave them wanting more.

 

[osby]

Still the 8th Fire Emblem character.

I'm giving up. There's no way one can oppose to such an excellently-written, well-thought, convincing argument. Truly a 2000 IQ post if I ever saw one.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

I already got the game and enjoyed it, so I just let the ad play out instead of skipping or reloading the page.

Yeah, the only problem is that the game that's being shilled might end up having some issues coughcoughBABYREALMcoughcough. It doesn't help that the games that are regularly "shilled" are Pokemon and Fire Emblem, and fans of other series are going to feel left out from that. Why not shill Golden Sun or F-Zero for a change, assuming there's actually something for them; They actually need the shilling.

if those can't happen I'm hoping Xenoblade and Splatoon are next for the "shill" treatment. Splatoon 2's kinda sorta being shilled with the return of Splatfests and those download codes in the Opens (minus Mario Tennis Aces which only had coins) so I say keep it coming

 

[MooMew64]

Given the nature of Smash Bros., the whole game is pretty much an ad to some extent. Cross overs in general are usually big ads. Smash Brothers is just a really, really dang impressive one.

What I'd like to know is why does being an ad make something objectively bad? If Smash helps people discover great games, what is honestly wrong with that?

 

[DarthEnderX]

When kids who grew up in the 2000s get nostalgic for the games of their decade, just like the kids who grew up in the 80s and 90s did.
View attachment 280767

I'll still have the last laugh! I'll just vote against everyones' best interests in all elections like all the other olds!

 

[AreJay25]

You'd think after 8 months people would have gotten over Byleth getting into the game by now, but here we are

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Won't even bother to discuss this with you wackos, would rather go to the Freddy support thread. (and I don't care if you think Freddy is a good choice!) Let's just leave it at that.

I'm guessing you would also defend Joker?

I was going to make a huge post discussing how Lloyd is a fantastic character and how Tales of so big it has a festival, but after reading these posts I don't see the point.

You're not open to discussion. Why bother?

 

[Ramen Tengoku]

You'd think after 8 months people would have gotten over Byleth getting into the game by now, but here we are

As a former Corrin main, I can assure you, no one will ever let it go

 

[DarthEnderX]

You'd think after 8 months people would have gotten over Byleth getting into the game by now, but here we are

I don't "get over" terrible roster choices. They are a blemish forever.

 

[osby]

You'd think after 8 months people would have gotten over Byleth getting into the game by now, but here we are

People still haven't gotten over Kencineroar.

"Resent and remember" is the motto of this fandom because video games are serious business.

 

[MooMew64]

As a former Corrin main, I can assure you, no one will ever let it go

As someone who also played Corrin back in the day, yeah, no one will ever let it go.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

I don't "get over" terrible roster choices. They are a blemish forever.

Even then, is it that big enough of a deal to hold a grudge?

 

[KillerCage]

Opening statements that precede unfortunate events.

Spoiler: You mean these "unfortunate events"?

 

[J. Bond]

Hero, Terry and Banjo confirmed bad choices because Hero's page links to the DQ11S page, Terry's page links to the Fatal Fury page and Sakurai told people to buy an Xbox in the Banjo stream therefore they're shill picks

You don't even actually believe what you're implying here, there is no way you do, these are legendary legacy characters.

And you've failed to explain how that outweighs the positives I took the time to tell you.

As SharkLord correctly said:

It doesn't help that the games that are regularly shilled are Pokemon and Fire Emblem, and fans of other series are going to feel left out from that. Why not shill Golden Sun or F-Zero for a change, assuming there's actually something for them; They actually need the shilling.

It's 8 Fire Emblem characters!




You guys will defend the shillmon when it gets in and if Nintendo puts in Teen Titans Go you'll suck it up and defend it.

 

[DarthEnderX]

Let us be realistic and serious:
Skipping Ultima for Final Fantasy is a ridiculous downgrade. Ultima is the most iconic and influential JRPG series of all time together with Wizardry. No offense to FF fans but FF is pretty much just the more popular of many anime JRPGs. Going from the Avatar to Cloud is a comical downgrade. Awfully sticks out. Do we really need this literal anime swordsman?

I know you're doing a bit, but Ultima isn't a JRPG. It came from NA.

 

[Professor Pumpkaboo]

This is a very interesting interview over all, but as far as being relevant to the point thread, Kamiya would like to see Amaterasu in Smash, so that's cool.

a s would I Kamiya, As would I. To bad I think that would never happen

 

[GoodGrief741]

You don't even actually believe what you're implying here, there is no way you do, these are legendary legacy characters.

You know who else is?

Lloyd Irving!

I know you're doing a bit, but Ultima isn't a JRPG. It came from NA.

Oh yeah, didn't catch that. Copypasta mistakes.

 

[Idon]

I honestly have no idea why being a "shill" or advertisement character is a negative thing. Byleth is a fun character that represents an awesome game.

Well, playing devil's advocate here, people generally want characters from games they like already.

It's hard to swallow when a character gets in not because people like the game, but because it was in the right place and time to serve as a convenient advertisement.

In general, people like when you use a fighting game cameo to appeal to fans of the game, rather than using a fighting game cameo to appeal a game to the fans. It's a mix of disdain over the "corporate" side of game development, exasperation at over-saturation of something they personally aren't interested in, and disappointment that the character wasn't someone they were personally interested in.

I will say then, it's very fortunate for Smash that Roy has Melee Nostalgia and Byleth's game was critically acclaimed. Corrin then at least has their water dragon powers for the Smash players that like obvious character uniqueness.

Personally, I would've gone with Dimitri first or Edelgard second before Byleth third, but I imagine non-FE3H fans would still be pretty mad about that.

 

[Opossum]

You don't even actually believe what you're implying here, there is no way you do, these are legendary legacy characters.

As SharkLord correctly said:


It's 8 Fire Emblem characters!




You guys will defend the shillmon when it gets in and if Nintendo puts in Teen Titans Go you'll suck it up and defend it.

You're clearly speaking from a place of bias because otherwise you'd know that I have been pretty open about my distaste for a potential Galar rep despite being a huge fan of Pokémon.

Mainly because I don't think Sword and Shield are good games and I'm not confident they'll pick one of the Galar Pokémon I'd actually like to see. Ones like Cinderace, Zacian, and Toxtricity do nothing for me, while the only two that stand a reasonable shot that I'd actually like are Rillaboom and Sirfetch'd. Any other ones I like are ones GameFreak would never give the okay for.


One of the biggest factors for a Smash inclusion for me is "is the game they're from actually good." For Three Houses, I can give it a resounding yes. For Sword and Shield, I can't do that in good faith.

Don't think you know what I do and don't support based on your own preconceived biases.

 

[PK-remling Fire]

While I do believe that Fire Emblem has one too many reps, I don't really have too much of a problem with Byleth as a character.
In fact I like them more than most of the other fire emblem characters.
Controversial opinion incoming, but I sort of wish some of the other FE characters were retroactively not in smash to not give the series Fire Emblem fatigue by the time Byleth was revealed.

 

[SharkLord]

You don't even actually believe what you're implying here, there is no way you do, these are legendary legacy characters.

As SharkLord correctly said:


It's 8 Fire Emblem characters!




You guys will defend the shillmon when it gets in and if Nintendo puts in Teen Titans Go you'll suck it up and defend it.

Eh, I just judge them on a case-by-case basis rather than number of characters, which is why I would keep Byleth over, say, Corrin or Roy. I'll defend the "shillmon" if I like how it's executed; If I don't, I won't.

 

[osby]

You guys will defend the shillmon when it gets in and if Nintendo puts in Teen Titans Go you'll suck it up and defend it.

Ah, yes. "Anyone who disagrees with me has no standarts and is incapable of making rational decisions" argument.

Was starting to wonder when you'll pull that card.

 

[Digital Hazard]

Well, playing devil's advocate here, people generally want characters from games they like already.

It's hard to swallow when a character gets in not because people like the game, but because it was in the right place and time to serve as a convenient advertisement.

In general, people like when you use a fighting game cameo to appeal to fans of the game, rather than using a fighting game cameo to appeal a game to the fans. It's a mix of disdain over the "corporate" side of game development, exasperation at over-saturation of something they personally aren't interested in, and disappointment that the character wasn't someone they were personally interested in.

I will say then, it's very fortunate for Smash that Roy has Melee Nostalgia and Byleth's game was critically acclaimed. Corrin then at least has their water dragon powers for the Smash players that like obvious character uniqueness.

Personally, I would've gone with Dimitri first or Edelgard second before Byleth third, but I imagine non-FE3H fans would still be pretty mad about that.

Along this, I would say that Nintendo hasn't done much better when it comes how they've treated their fanbase. Every new Smash reveal is set up to be an event of sorts, a big chance for a whatever is getting in arguably one of the most succesful crossover properties of all time.

They have basically ingrained hype culture in the fanbase, which leads them to a constant state of overhyping over assumptions of the most simple and meaningless things there can be.

To be fair though, this is more a thing they have ingrained over their consumers in general, but it's more notable within the Smash community due to the crossover nature of a game that allows Cloud Strife fight against Pac-Man and Mega Man.

 

[J. Bond]

"Adding an 8th Fire Emblem character in the game is justifiable because the new one was beloved and critically successful" isn't a great argument. Maybe it's a good argument for adding Byleth in Smash 5, if Smash 5 was a reboot that cut most of the Fire Emblem characters, or for keeping Byleth over the other FE characters if there ever is another Smash game.

 

[Ramen Tengoku]

Petition to rename this thread to "Dunk on Fire Emblem for the 97th Time Discussion Thread" cause that's pretty much all we do here

 

[Rie Sonomura]

so here's the "tease" Shinobi did:

Looks like we're officially in August now. Wonder if it'll be a busy month for gaming news.

— Shinobi602 (@shinobi602) August 1, 2020

overall more a vague wish than a "tease"

...unless there was something else im missing?

*edit* also isn't TGS this month or next?

 

[Koopaul]

There are multiple factors that lead to people being upset about Byleth. If it was just one or two things then I don't think there would be as big of a backlash.

I also should note there is a distinction between not liking a character in Smash and not liking an entire series. Some people were unhappy about Byleth but don't hate Fire Emblem at all.

 

[J. Bond]

I am biased because I don't want 8 Fire Emblem characters, but Nintendo & Sakurai aren't biased at all no no no...

 

[Professor Pumpkaboo]

"Adding an 8th Fire Emblem character in the game is justifiable because the new one was beloved and critically successful" isn't a great argument. Maybe it's a good argument for adding Byleth in Smash 5, if Smash 5 was a reboot that cut most of the Fire Emblem characters, or for keeping Byleth over the other FE characters if there ever is another Smash game.

how about we say "8th Fire Emblem character in the game is justifiable because that what sakurai wants" and everyone could politely shut up about it now and forever

 

[MooMew64]

so here's the "tease" Shinobi did:

Looks like we're officially in August now. Wonder if it'll be a busy month for gaming news.

— Shinobi602 (@shinobi602) August 1, 2020

overall more a vague wish than a "tease"

...unless there was something else im missing?

Unless he only exclusively leaks Nintendo content, seems he could be talking about anything tbh. Anyone here know if he's done things outside Nintendo before?

 

[AreJay25]

so here's the "tease" Shinobi did:

Looks like we're officially in August now. Wonder if it'll be a busy month for gaming news.

— Shinobi602 (@shinobi602) August 1, 2020

overall more a vague wish than a "tease"

...unless there was something else im missing?

*edit* also isn't TGS this month or next?

TGS is next month, though I don't know if they're doing a digital event.

August would usually be Gamescom month.

 

[FJA147]

Ok even popular western characters could be considered a shill pick in Japan and vis versa. Here are 2 probable shill picks, one to the west and one to the Japan. Where the character is very popular in the other region. For the West a shill pick could be Reimu because Touhou project is very niche. But in Japan in Touhou is really big and is a popular request for smash. A popular request for the West is Master Chief. But in Japan it would be probably a shill pick in their opinion due to Halo and Xbox being very small and niche in Japan.
My main point is that what character is a shill pick is someone’s opinion

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Unless he only exclusively leaks Nintendo content, seems he could be talking about anything tbh. Anyone here know if he's done things outside Nintendo before?

Mass Effect Andromeda (LMAO) for one, he leaked the entirety of it... questionable quality and all

 

[Opossum]

"Adding an 8th Fire Emblem character in the game is justifiable because the new one was beloved and critically successful" isn't a great argument. Maybe it's a good argument for adding Byleth in Smash 5, if Smash 5 was a reboot that cut most of the Fire Emblem characters, or for keeping Byleth over the other FE characters if there ever is another Smash game.

You can't just declare something to be a bad argument just because you don't like it lmao. That's not how it works.

 

[Digital Hazard]

Okay, so changing topic, we all know that Phoenix Wright is a decently requested character and that a number of people have Saber in mind.

However, I'm curious, what other characters from visual novels would you guys think would make interesting choices?

 

[Professor Pumpkaboo]

Okay, so changing topic, we all know that Phoenix Wright is a decently requested character and that a number of people have Saber in mind.

However, I'm curious, what other characters from visual novels would you guys think would make interesting choices?

Im always going to say Professor Layton

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Okay, so changing topic, we all know that Phoenix Wright is a decently requested character and that a number of people have Saber in mind.

However, I'm curious, what other characters from visual novels would you guys think would make interesting choices?

I'd say Danganronpa but the violent nature isn't for good boys and girls (read: teenagers murdering each other and getting executed if they're caught) so the least we could get is a Monokuma Mii

 

[Schnee117]

I wouldn't point to Shinobi as a specific Nintendo tease, just a general gaming one.
We know Sony have an event this month, Microsoft have something going by Jeff Grubb, Warner Bros have an event that includes the Batman and Suicide Squad games, QuakeCon might have something, GamesCon ends off the whole Summer Games Mess ****show, Street Fighter V has info in four days time etc.

 

[AceAttorney9000]

It doesn't help that the games that are regularly "shilled" are Pokemon and Fire Emblem, and fans of other series are going to feel left out from that. Why not shill Golden Sun or F-Zero for a change, assuming there's actually something for them; They actually need the shilling.

Honestly... I think that's exactly the problem with "shill picks". It's not that they're inherently bad... it's that they're almost always included in favor of a series that doesn't really need it, to the detriment of other series that could seriously use that Smash boost.

F-Zero has only one playable character, and it has been stuck with only one ever since Smash 64 with no attempts at any additional ones (not even an Echo Fighter for Captain Falcon), despite fans wanting the series to make a comeback, which another playable Smash character can help with.

Golden Sun has zero playable characters. There's one character that fans really want to see become playable, and they've made that fact loud and clear enough by this point... yet that character has remained unplayable to this day despite the obvious fan demand. And like F-Zero, fans want this series back, and a Smash character could very much help.