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Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

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Swamp Sensei

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Isaac and Geno are comparable in size.

AT just made Isaac's support go into a lull.
 

Garteam

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Do you believe franchises like Fatal Frame or even more indie stuff like (dare I say it) Five Nights at Freddy's would fit?
Admittedly, I don't really know a ton about Fatal Frame. However, to my understanding, the series is somewhere between Resident Evil's B-movie monsters made by comic book villains and Silent Hill's horrific killers born from the psychological fears of its characters in terms of horror. As such, I think it could work, where Smash just sort of skims over the darker elements of the locations and ghosts. I would say it's on the verge of being too dark to fit Smash and could either pass that line or step away from it based on which elements are emphasized.

FNAF is another a series I don't know a ton about, but I do have some first hand experience with the first two games in the series. Unless the series has changed significantly in its later entries, I don't think too dark for Smash. Most of the really extreme horror and gore in the series is largely implied or just sort of glossed over in flavour text, so it could be left out rather easily. Likewise, the series is a little more tongue and cheek with some of its horror elements, so that would also help to bring the series to Smash.

Then again, I'm a largely an outsider to both these series, so it wouldn't surprise me if there's some factor in those games that significantly turns things one way or the other.
 

Aetheri

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Some of the reasons Zelda characters aren't talked about much because some of the best ones are Assist Trophies. Everyone defaults to 'AT=dead' then move onto supporting different characters.
 
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pupNapoleon

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One more reason for the rule to get broken honestly. It dulls speculation.
Speculation is always going to create nonsense rules. It's our job to not propagate that they are rules at all. Just stupidity.
 

Michael the Spikester

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Calamitas

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So, different question I have real quick: When is the next shareholder meeting for Nintendo again? 6th of August, or when?
 

Aetheri

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Actually, imagine if the next guessing game were focused on Ultimate's assist trophies?

I don't think my heart could handle it...
 
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Garteam

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I think it's pretty inarguable that Crash and Geno are the top dogs of Smash speculation right now. They're two naturally popular characters with a lot of evidence perceived in their corners. Those two factors are, historically, the biggest predictors of popularity for Smash. People like betting for winners and people like betting for... well, people they like.

It's hard to find a third who fits the bill as well as two previous two do and, thus, can match their popularity. a Gen 8 Pokemon and Rex are two characters thought to be very likely, but they aren't super popular in a vacuum. Likewise, characters like Doom Marine, Sora, and Issac are highly requested but each have a roadblock to their inclusion that stifles support. Even characters like Bandana Dee and Dante, two characters who are naturally popular and many think have a good shot, have enough debate on their exact chances to keep them from reaching Crash and Geno's level.
 

Al-kīmiyā'

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What evidence is there for Geno's promotion? I don't see why he would be any more likely than Waluigi.
 

JarBear

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One more reason for the rule to get broken honestly. It dulls speculation.
At AT promotion would be pretty cool. I think it would be the last "fan rule" to be "broken." The top two in my mind is Waluigi and Isaac, just personal choice. Waluigi because he's been shafted so much, especially since Daisy has been included on the roster and Waluigi is the last "humanoid" of the Mario series and just feels about time for him. Isaac on the other hand, albeit Golden Sun in general, needs some love. Critically acclaimed game and would be nice to add an additional series to the rooster. I'm rooting for either or both of those two.
 

Phoenix Douchebag

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literally why would they put in elma over rex

that's like adding alm before byleth
Adding Elma at this point in time would be like adding a Gen 6 Pokémon as Ultimate DLC. Franchises like Pokémon and Fire Emblem always base their character on the most recent stars from the most recent entries. I COULD have seen Elma back in the base game since Smash's Ult Development started around 2015/2016, but now that we know that Sakurai went Straight to Rex (as in, he actually seems to have consider him for the base roster) makes me believe that Elma simply got skipped entirely. She is in the same position as Gen 3 and 5 Pokémon now (too early for Smash Base roster, too late and too much of old news for DLC or Next entry). I firmly believe it's more likely that we get no Xenoblade newcomer in Smash than Elma joining in. and no, i don't think an hypothetical Xeno X port would help at all. We didn't get Alm/Celica despite the Echoes remake, we didn't get Skull Kid despite the MM remake on 3DS (which was released and was in development close to Smash Ult's beggining of development) etc.


Welcome to the Zoroark gang, Elma stans.
 
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Guynamednelson

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Actually, imagine if the next guessing game were focused on Ultimate's assist trophies?

I don't think my heart could handle it...
"Waluigi can't fill out a challenger pack without scraping the bottom of the barrel" vs. "It has to be Waluigi because of his demand" will be the new "It can't be Spring Man because of his AT" vs. "It has to be Spring Man because he's the face".
 

Swamp Sensei

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Do you think all series are likely to follow that pattern, or do you think Xenoblade is similar to them in some relevant way?
Xenoblade has a revolving cast like Pokemon and Fire Emblem.

So yeah, it could easily be like those two series.
 

Guynamednelson

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Actually, screw ATs, imagine the ****storm over the guessing game being Poke Balls.

If you're not complaining that we're getting another Pokemon, you're complaining that it won't be furry Corrin.
 

Calamitas

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Adding Elma at this point in time would be like adding a Gen 6 Pokémon as Ultimate DLC. Franchises like Pokémon and Fire Emblem always base their character on the most recent stars from the most recent entries. I COULD have seen Elma back in the base game since Smash's Ult Development started around 2015/2016, but now that we know that Sakurai went Straight to Rex (as in, he actually seems to have consider him for the base roster) makes me believe that Elma simply got skipped entirely. She is in the same position as Gen 3 and 5 Pokémon now (too early for Smash Base roster, too late and too much of old news for DLC or Next entry). I firmly believe it's more likely that we get no Xenoblade newcomer in Smash than Elma joining in. and no, i don't think an hypothetical Xeno X port would help at all. We didn't get Alm/Celica despite the Echoes remake, we didn't get Skull Kid despite the MM remake on 3DS (which was released and was in development close to Smash Ult's beggining of development) etc.


Welcome to the Zoroark gang, Elma stans.
Except that the chances that Elma is gonna get the starring role in a future Xenoblade game is pretty good. X ended on a cliffhanger and with many open questions, so that a direct sequel has good chances of happening eventually. Picking her would be a future-proof choice. Contrast that with Fire Emblem and Pokémon games, which pretty much never get direct sequels, and only have past characters return to prominence via remakes.
 

PeridotGX

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Are there any gut feelings you have? Potential darkhorses that logically have the odds stacked against them, but you just really think are happening? Bias may play a part in these gut feelings, so don't feel ashamed to admit it if you have any.

As for me? I'm really expecting Reimu, though you may have picked up on that in RTC...
In my eyes, Waluigi is one of the most likely characters. He'd fill the role Banjo did (a popular request added to appeal to the core fanbase).
1595687487631.png

I also think a Bracel Default rep is kinda likely.
 

Swamp Sensei

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Actually, screw ATs, imagine the ****storm over the guessing game being Poke Balls.

If you're not complaining that we're getting another Pokemon, you're complaining that it won't be furry Corrin.
If ya'll weren't cowards we could have gotten Alolan Exeggutor.

More range than Min Min, less recovery than Little Mac.
 
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WeirdChillFever

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Pokémon and Fire Emblem aren’t directly comparable to Xenoblade. Besides Pokémon being cyclical in nature and having anime and other promotions tied into it based on the latest generation, there’s also the question of the involvement of the Pokémon Company.

Fire Emblem’s Corrin was added because it was the latest, yes, but that was for that “slot” of DLC in general and not exclusive to Fire Emblem. Lyn or another older character was never on the table, because that slot was reserved for a new character, not the latest Fire Emblem.
Byleth and Alm is an unfair comparison too: Three Houses is one of the Switch’s biggest games that revigorated the Fire Emblem fanbase, whereas Shadows of Valentia did not have that impact as the remake of the black sheep in the franchise.
 

pupNapoleon

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At AT promotion would be pretty cool. I think it would be the last "fan rule" to be "broken." The top two in my mind is Waluigi and Isaac, just personal choice. Waluigi because he's been shafted so much, especially since Daisy has been included on the roster and Waluigi is the last "humanoid" of the Mario series and just feels about time for him. Isaac on the other hand, albeit Golden Sun in general, needs some love. Critically acclaimed game and would be nice to add an additional series to the rooster. I'm rooting for either or both of those two.
Dont worry- as soon as one fan rule is broken, two more emerge to take their place.

Fun game: guess the next Smash fan rule!
 

Michael the Spikester

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Actually, screw ATs, imagine the ****storm over the guessing game being Poke Balls.

If you're not complaining that we're getting another Pokemon, you're complaining that it won't be furry Corrin.
Nah fam. A guessing game of the next character but doesn't tell what series it is. The ****storm that would stir.
 
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Scoliosis Jones

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Guess who imposes rules on Smash speculators?

The people who hate fan rules!

Has it ever occurred to people that the "rules" you speak of have never been identified as "rules" by the people who state them? As in, people use the "fan rule" term to discredit popular ideas or logical concepts?

Because that's basically the only time I've ever seen it used.

For example, it's entirely logical to think that Assist Trophies may not get an upgrade. It's also logical to assume post-launch spirits may not be in consideration for Volume 2.

But instead of looking at it for what it is, "Yeah, you make a good case for it" it becomes "FAN RULE! Don't tell me what I can or can't talk about!" when that's literally not what anyone is doing. People are here to talk about which characters are going to be in Smash, mainly because they want to eventually play as those characters. Nobody is trying to make "rules" about what you can or can't talk about. It's called a discourse. Just because somebody disagrees with you doesn't mean they're a jerk, or wrong, or doesn't want your character. Respond to the point you disagree with with your own points, otherwise you're just name calling and complaining.

I like Golden Sun. I like Isaac. I like Xenoblade 2 and Rex. But just because I want them doesn't mean they're automatically eligible right now.

"Fan rule" is probably the literal worst thing to come out of Smash Ultimate speculation.
 
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WeirdChillFever

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Guess who imposes rules on Smash speculators?

The people who hate fan rules!

Has it ever occurred to people that the "rules" you speak of have never been identified as "rules" by the people who state them? As in, people use the "fan rule" term to discredit popular ideas or logical concepts?

Because that's basically the only time I've ever seen it used.
“Fan rules” does make these concepts that merely affect probability seem more black-and-white, but that doesn’t take away from the fact that some people do genuinely think that certain aspects of a character are hard limits, or diminish chance to such a scale they are seen as unviable options. I don’t think changing the term for it changes that mindset.
 

SNEKeater

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A darkhorse pick would be Sol Badguy of course. Guilty Gear gets overlooked for other more popular fighting games like Tekken, but Guilty Gear has a dedicated playerbase and legacy to make it a deserving franchise to be in Smash.
I like you.

Sakurai pulls a Sakurai and instead of any Xeno character we’re expecting (Rex, Rex/Pyra, Elma, Cross, Kos Mos, Fiora) we get...

1) A pair from Torna. Either Lora/Jin or Adam/Mithra

or

2) Tora and Poppy where Poppy is cosplaying as Mai from King of Fighters and Sakurai just laughs and tells us never to ask him for anything again
Lora & Jin is the best Xenoblade option we could get but people aren't prepared for that conversation.

Here's a question for ya.

Is Smash Bros a good place to represent the horror genre?

Franchises like Silent Hill and Resident Evil shaped gaming as we know it, but are they acceptable for Smash?
I think horror games could and should have more representation. I won't deny that a playable character could be somewhat problematic, specially for IPs beyond Resident Evil.
Resident Evil usually keeps a goofy tone, so I think RE could be added to Smash with less problems. Silent Hill... I love the series, but a fighter from Silent Hill would be strange. That would be a darkhorse pick for sure.

In Silent Hill's case, I think the best option to get representation is a stage or an assist. I don't think Pyramid Head, for example, would need big changes to appear. He looks scary, but it's not like he's completely nude, has blood everywhere or it's a big ass and deformed monster that would need to be tone down.
 
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Aetheri

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I'm starting to see another rule surface here actually.

"Only the most recent of a series with an interchangeable cast gets added"
 

chocolatejr9

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Time for the regularly scheduled "leaker" check-up session!


Has this guy been disproven yet? I'm assuming not considering he hasn't been chased off the internet by angry Nintendo fans...
 

LiveStudioAudience

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Fan rules are often silly, but they come about because people are naturally going to look at patterns and general recurring elements of fighters and draw their own speculations based on that. They're a convenience and a useful starting point because wondering about possible fighters without them would lead to wild hypotheses with no basis on anything; which might be fun but at the of the day isn't all that much better than pulling names out of a hat and proclaiming that that character is clearly the fighter.
 
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Geno Boost

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I was wondering if does anyone of you want a character that hasn’t been smashified by anyone in the whole smash community or lacked a good 3D render?
I would like to know
 
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Luxent

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I just want some lightweight, floaty, fighters. Most DLC have been medium to heavyweight. People often talk about diversity within the series, or they want female fighters, but I love diversity in playstyle, and most DLC fighters have been really clunky feeling. I think Joker is the lightest DLC, but hes still very average-weight. I would wanna see a superheavy or a superlightweight.


I -really- hope we get another Zelda rep. I know each Zelda is styled after a different ~era~ of Zelda.... but I really hope to see someone who has gone relatively unchanged throughout the whole series. My Zelda rep of choice is Tingle tbh. Lolzy enough, and theres enough material out there for a moveset. We havent had a super light weight character in any DLC so far yet, either. It would be a nice complement to the roster tbh.
 
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