Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[Lionfranky]

Here's an idea then. The last character you played as is playable, and their homestage is the last stage you played, who is it? For me, it'd be Rouge the Bat and her homestage is Security Hall from SA2. Not the Sonic character I hoped for tbh

Monster from Carrion....

The stage would be underground facility.

 

[Calamitas]

Shulk and Fiora also got a trailer for XC2 since they were part of another DLC pack. Does that mean Fiora has a chance since she headlined alongside the series' pseudo-mascot?

[...]

I'd say the latter two possibilities are unlikely, however, as Monolith is already incredibly busy with their New IP, Xenoblade Chronicles 3 (if I recall correctly–this could be XCX 2 if it gets a name change, but I doubt it given the tepid reception to the original XCX, which is a valid point), and whatever the hell Nintendo has them working on in addition (BotW 2 likely, maybe something else).

Just need to pick out these points really quick, because there isn't much truth to them.

Shulk and Fiora did not get a dedicated reveal trailer for the appearance as DLC in 2. They were only ever shown off in a gameplay segment during Threehouse. The only DLC Blade/crossover character in the game that did get an outright trailer was Elma.

There's also nothing to suggest that they are working on a Xenoblade Chronicles 3 right now. In fact, given that the series director, Takahashi, has stated that he doesn't like working on the same kind of project back-to-back (or something to that effect), I'd honestly be shocked if we saw a Xenoblade Chronicles 3 next.

As for the reception to X, that's really overblowing it. The game reviewed well and sold well enough considering that it came out on the Wii U. The most that can be said is that some people complained about the game online, but there's such a concept of a vocal minority.

For the record, I don't think that she's guaranteed to be in by any means, either. But she still has a better shot than people give her credit for.

 

[PSIGuy]

Pretty sure the reason X barely has content is because they'd have to pay Sawano for royalties as he owns the songs outright

I think it's more likely no-one on the sound team give a **** about Xenoblade X. They used two songs in the XB2 DLC just fine, if they can afford it for that then licensing it for Smash with a much higher budget should've been a cakewalk.

The sound team has clear biases - they like Castlevania, SNK and Mega Man, and don't care for Wario Land. Compare with Banjo-Kazooie, which got as many remixes because the original tracks didn't fit the mood of a fighting game according to Sakurai and Arms, which got the whole soundtrack and two remixes because they were already Smash-appropriate tracks. The only reason Codename STEAM has any music is because they pulled Fire Emblem remixes from it and the composer for that game rearranged his own work. Likewise, the only Xenoblade arrangement is from its own composers and consists of maybe 5 seconds of new material and the rest is just edited portions of the soundtrack. All new Mother tracks for Ultimate were from Motoi Sakuraba who apparently wanted his own takes for Fourside and Magicant. I could go on.

tl;dr franchises get songs because they're either IPs the arrangers are excited to work on, or if they're being added and don't have fitting tracks they can just slot in. No-one wanted to work on XBX music and there was no need to add it in - price wasn't the issue. For Smash, it usually isn't.

 

[Aetheri]

This is pretty much all bias to me.

You've got some good points on Elma's prominence in the series, but she always headlines alongside Shulk and Rex (aside from in her own game of course). Shulk and Fiora also got a trailer for XC2 since they were part of another DLC pack. Does that mean Fiora has a chance since she headlined alongside the series' pseudo-mascot?

A lot of this reads like conjecture to, such as the devs pushing for her specifically (when they've indicated no previous bias like the ARMS Director Kosuke Yabuki had for Min Min) or her moveset potential (which can be argued for any character honestly, except Euden), or Rex's Mii Costume disconfirming when another special case like Min Min could hypothetically arise and lead to his inclusion.

If Sakurai is told by Nintendo to advertise Xenoblade and Monolith Soft suddenly got the funds and resources to port XCX (which they did not have as of October 2018) or are working on a sequel to XCX, then I'd say Elma has a chance. I'd say the latter two possibilities are unlikely, however, as Monolith is already incredibly busy with their New IP, Xenoblade Chronicles 3 (if I recall correctly–this could be XCX 2 if it gets a name change, but I doubt it given the tepid reception to the original XCX, which is a valid point), and whatever the hell Nintendo has them working on in addition (BotW 2 likely, maybe something else).

Don't get me wrong, if you want Elma in then I support you wholeheartedly. But don't try to pass off a biased argument as objective fact.

No where did I mention any of what I said was objective fact. A lot of it was nothing more than conjecture and your typical what-ifs. I don't see why you'd think otherwise, especially when I explicitly mention that there was bias involved in my post.

 

[Eremurus]

This is pretty much all bias to me.

You've got some good points on Elma's prominence in the series, but she always headlines alongside Shulk and Rex (aside from in her own game of course). Shulk and Fiora also got a trailer for XC2 since they were part of another DLC pack. Does that mean Fiora has a chance since she headlined alongside the series' pseudo-mascot?

A lot of this reads like conjecture to, such as the devs pushing for her specifically (when they've indicated no previous bias like the ARMS Director Kosuke Yabuki had for Min Min) or her moveset potential (which can be argued for any character honestly, except Euden), or Rex's Mii Costume disconfirming when another special case like Min Min could hypothetically arise and lead to his inclusion.

If Sakurai is told by Nintendo to advertise Xenoblade and Monolith Soft suddenly got the funds and resources to port XCX (which they did not have as of October 2018) or are working on a sequel to XCX, then I'd say Elma has a chance. I'd say the latter two possibilities are unlikely, however, as Monolith is already incredibly busy with their New IP, Xenoblade Chronicles 3 (if I recall correctly–this could be XCX 2 if it gets a name change, but I doubt it given the tepid reception to the original XCX, which is a valid point), and whatever the hell Nintendo has them working on in addition (BotW 2 likely, maybe something else).

Don't get me wrong, if you want Elma in then I support you wholeheartedly. But don't try to pass off a biased argument as objective fact.

You guys are literally participating in speculation cycle. Something that is akin to wannabe mind reading and plucking petals from a flower wishing that your crush likes you.

Of course there is going to be bias.

 

[ZelDan]

As someone who played and enjoyed XCX and never played XC2, and wants Elma way more than Rex. I have a really hard time seeing Elma getting in over Rex.

Only thing that could change that or help Elma's case is a XCX sequel, which I'm not exactly holding my breath on happening sometime while FP2 is still relevant.

 

[Will]

literally why would they put in elma over rex

that's like adding alm before byleth

 

[DarthEnderX]

literally why would they put in elma over rex

that's like adding alm before byleth

Isn't it more like adding Corrin before Byleth? Which they did.

 

[I.D.]

All of my Most Wanteds are practically guarantees at this point, trust me...my dog's uncle works at Nintendo('s lunchroom)!

K but seriously though I'm not really expecting anyone per se, but I do think Elma does have a decent shot. There's a lot that can be argued against her such as X not selling all that well, and being a previous gen game, XC2 being a more recent with Rex being a lot more popular and relevant now, supposed licensing issues with music (although that really shouldn't affect the character's chances tbh)

I just can't stress how odd it is for the base game of Smash to feature so much content from the Wii U, but X (a game that Nintendo pushed heavily before it's release mind you) has next to nothing besides a handful of spirits no music no stages, Elma was literally in a perfect position to be a base game addition (I actually think she would have been added in the base game if not for "EVERYONE IS HERE!" since Sakurai did mention there'd be less newcomers because he prioritized getting all the veterans, Elma may have missed the mark because of that) as we see with Hero they can add planned characters later for DLC, and considering X was a highly ambitious title that Monolith worked on during the Wii U's cycle as well as them having possible plans later to continue the story based on the cliffhanger ending. Elma actually makes a lot of sense to promote in Smash since she'll likely be a recurring character which is something that is less likely to happen for Rex and even Shulk (discounting DLC and cameos obviously)...plus Monolith themselves seems to recognize her popularity considering she's being added to various promotional material for Xenoblade such as XC2 DLC (getting her own stand alone trailer to boot) and a suspiciously prominent position in the 10th anniversary artwork's composition (which actually leads me to a certain theory that's irrelevant to Smash so I won't digress) and as we see with Min Min's inclusion maayybe the developers can push her for Smash DLC. Xenoblade as a series could use another character be it Rex or Elma. As mentioned she does appear in XC2 as DLC so her inclusion can still promote that title in a way (of course not as much as Rex himself, but still she is in the game) Her moveset potential and ability to bring in a couple possible new mechanics, such as her weapon switching and overdrive, maybe even the use of her Skell, fits well with what Sakurai mentioned about the remaining DLC fighters bringing something unique to the roster. Like she would almost be perfect as a DLC fighter considering all of the above. And if a port or sequel is in the works, then that makes even more sense to add her as a promo.

Of course XCX happens to be one of my favourite games and Elma happens to be my second most wanted newcomer....so bias might play a miniscule role in my reasoning. But that gut feeling is there regardless. I do consider her a darkhorse because it seems that those who don't specifically support Elma or any Xenoblade character, immediately look at Rex as being the favourite newcomer for the series. For understandable reasons of course he's the protag of the most recent game as well as being one of the most popular characters overall for Smash. But for me personally Xenoblade 2 did already get it's DLC moment in the game and I do indeed think that the Mii costume may play a hindrance to his chances of becoming DLC not necessarily because Sakurai is against adding him as a fighter with the costume but because THAT was him putting in his work for that character and now he's moved on, and as mentioned before if the devs at Monolith push for someone else for whatever reason then there's that as well. I mean to me this feels like K Rool's Mii costume in Smash 4 all over again as I thought once that it actually helped his chances back then but it was the opposite, I'm hesitant to make that same judgement this time. Of course now that's moot since he's a playable fighter but I'm talking specifically for Smash 4's DLC. I do understand that it's a different DLC cycle as well but going through the notion of adding in content from different worlds XC2 has Rex's Mii and (if Elma's added as a fighter) then XCX would get some representation as well.

Neither Elma nor Rex supporters want Monolith/Takahashi themselves in charge of picking their own character.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Isn't it more like adding Corrin before Byleth? Which they did.

I'm not sure I understand this comparison.

Corrin and Byleth were both the most recent FE main characters at the time of their inclusion.

Elma wouldn't be the most recent at all, while Rex would be from the most recent non remake game.

 

[Arcadenik]

Are there any gut feelings you have? Potential darkhorses that logically have the odds stacked against them, but you just really think are happening? Bias may play a part in these gut feelings, so don't feel ashamed to admit it if you have any.

As for me? I'm really expecting Reimu, though you may have picked up on that in RTC...

Not expecting it to happen but I cannot help but feel that Team Rocket (Jessie & James, not Grunts) could happen someday.

I have been wanting Meowth in Smash as a playable fighter since 1999... but nothing has happened. Meowth’s deconfirmation in Brawl really devastated me when I saw that update on the Brawl Dojo.

But ever since Pokémon Let’s Go, I have been fully supporting Jessie and James for Smash... since they are such iconic Pokémon human characters, I think most gamers would instantly recognize them whether they played Pokémon games or not...

And logically, Jessie and James in Smash would mean a playable Meowth (finally!) even if it also means a playable Ekans/Arbok and Koffing/Weezing. Of course I’m gonna support Jessie and James in spite of the “no anime” rule. That’s how badly I really want Meowth to be a playable fighter in Smash.

And now... Jessie and James are showing up in more games, namely Pokémon GO and Pokémon Masters (with a talking Meowth, finally!)... I cannot help but feel hopeful for Jessie and James getting in Smash with a playable Meowth. I feel that it’s not a matter of “if”, but “when”... maybe not for this Fighter’s Pass but for a future Smash game. For the first time since Meowth’s deconfirmation in Brawl, I am finally feeling hopeful for Meowth again.

Meowth needs to stop giving away invitations to other Pokémon and start taking one for himself.

 

[PSIGuy]

Neither Elma nor Rex supporters want Monolith/Takahashi themselves in charge of picking their own character.

I don't think Takahashi would care enough to pick one or the other - he's very much a "always focused on the next project" kind of guy. When asked about the possibility of a Xenoblade X character in Smash way back in the Wii U days (source: at the bottom here) his response was basically "ask Sakurai lol". In regards to the Xenoblade X censorship controversy he basically said "I don't care" (source: here, sorry it's Kotaku). In just about every interview given during a game's release he makes a comment to the effect of "We're working on our next project".
"...but my personality is such that I’m not a stickler for products that I’ve already made..."
That said, this probably just means he'd give Sakurai free reign to pick whoever he wants, like Rex or Rex.

 

[Freduardo]

Sakurai pulls a Sakurai and instead of any Xeno character we’re expecting (Rex, Rex/Pyra, Elma, Cross, Kos Mos, Fiora) we get...

1) A pair from Torna. Either Lora/Jin or Adam/Mithra

or

2) Tora and Poppy where Poppy is cosplaying as Mai from King of Fighters and Sakurai just laughs and tells us never to ask him for anything again

 

[Calamitas]

literally why would they put in elma over rex

that's like adding alm before byleth

Xenoblade ain't Fire Emblem, my dude.

 

[I.D.]

I don't think Takahashi would care enough to pick one or the other - he's very much a "always focused on the next project" kind of guy. When asked about the possibility of a Xenoblade X character in Smash way back in the Wii U days (source: at the bottom here) his response was basically "ask Sakurai lol". In regards to the Xenoblade X censorship controversy he basically said "I don't care" (source: here, sorry it's Kotaku). In just about every interview given during a game's release he makes a comment to the effect of "We're working on our next project".
"...but my personality is such that I’m not a stickler for products that I’ve already made..."
That said, this probably just means he'd give Sakurai free reign to pick whoever he wants, like Rex or Rex.

He says that, but a certain someone has managed to sneak her way into a lot of Monolith's games even after becoming a Nintendo subsidiary.

 

[RaintheCriminalWhirlwind]

Ironically, the base roster (and PP) was the exact opposite.




You need Echoes to even it out, and even then the non-human characters still outnumber the human ones.

If we have to get a non-human, I'd want Amaterasu

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Xenoblade ain't Fire Emblem, my dude.

It's a franchise with cycling protagonists and characters.

We typically get the most recent of those and its not just Fire Emblem.

Pokemon
Earthbound
Fire Emblem

All got their most recent protagonist/character when adding a newcomer.

All other franchises either had static casts, only one character, or in Castlevania's case, an echo.

If Xenoblade is going to get a character, its in prime position to follow the three franchises I listed above.

 

[Kalaam]

You know it's funny.
We never had a smash pic of the day of Springman until ARMS was revealed for dlc.
That's the case for a few other AT too.
Most of them would have been good material for fun pictures.
I wonder why we still haven't seen some of them.
Of course i'm just joking.

Spoiler: ...unless...?

Yes I am joking. It's merely coincidental.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Here's a question for ya.

Is Smash Bros a good place to represent the horror genre?

Franchises like Silent Hill and Resident Evil shaped gaming as we know it, but are they acceptable for Smash?

 

[WaddleMatt]

Here's a question for ya.

Is Smash Bros a good place to represent the horror genre?

Franchises like Silent Hill and Resident Evil shaped gaming as we know it, but are they acceptable for Smash?

I don't see why not

 

[Garteam]

Here's a question for ya.

Is Smash Bros a good place to represent the horror genre?

Franchises like Silent Hill and Resident Evil shaped gaming as we know it, but are they acceptable for Smash?

Gonna crosspost what I put in the Resident Evil/Silent Hill thread:

In my opinion, Resident Evil's more tongue and cheek approach to horror and other mature elements makes it far better at fitting into the lighthearted world of Super Smash Bros. That's not to say Resident Evil doesn't have any genuinely serious or tense moments, but a game about Mr. Boulder Punch taking down the moustache-twirling Dr. Complete Global Saturation is far closer to the tone we've generally seen throughout Smash than a serious zombie apocalypse story. Plus, Leon and Jill are generally more iconic and generally transition better to direct combat than folks like Harry Mason and James Sunderland.

Silent Hill, on the other hand, is much more darker in both its generally themes and atmosphere than anything we've seen in Smash thus far. While series like Fire Emblem, Metal Gear, and Persona touched on similar ideas in their games, none of them committed to showing how horrific and brutal those ideas are like Silent Hill. Plus, if Castlevania and Dracula's Castle were approaching too dark for Smash by Sakurai's tastes, Silent Hill is going to need to be really sanitized to work.

That's not to say it's impossible, seeing how Pyramid Head has made it into E for Everyone crossovers in the past, but it's also the reason I think Resident Evil is far more viable than Silent Hill for an appearance in a future entry.

TL;DR: Resident Evil yes, Silent Hill no.

 

[osby]

Here's a question for ya.

Is Smash Bros a good place to represent the horror genre?

Franchises like Silent Hill and Resident Evil shaped gaming as we know it, but are they acceptable for Smash?

Depends on the game.

Resident Evil can and did have playable characters in a fighting game while still having its identity intact. Silent Hill, probably less so.

Personally, I find the idea of a horror game character fighting against Isabelle or Pichu on Yoshi's Island like their life depends on it hilarious in a good way.

 

[Kalaam]

Resident Evil would be fairly simple to implement. For other horror games that would be very tricky, but interresting.
I suppose the simplest is to do assist trophies that change the ambiance like the Fatal Frame one. You could have a Silent Hill AT where the stage gets covered in mist and you have to escape Pyramid head, summoner included.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Gonna crosspost what I put in the Resident Evil/Silent Hill thread:

TL;DR: Resident Evil yes, Silent Hill no.

Do you believe franchises like Fatal Frame or even more indie stuff like (dare I say it) Five Nights at Freddy's would fit?

 

[Evil Trapezium]

Here's a question for ya.

Is Smash Bros a good place to represent the horror genre?

Franchises like Silent Hill and Resident Evil shaped gaming as we know it, but are they acceptable for Smash?

If we're gonna ask this question, we should also ask if Yakuza is acceptable for Smash Bros. If the answer is yes then there are no boundaries for both games.

 

[Professor Pumpkaboo]

Sora is a dark pick?

He's probably the currently most requested character since inclusions.

to the geno fandom he is, to everyone else, not so much

 

[3BitSaurus]

There's also the matter of how RE is more action-oriented, and thus would translate easily into a fighting game.

Meanwhile, combat in SH is kinda purposely designed to suck, both from a story perspective (protagonists being regular people with little or no combat training) and gameplay perspective (you're actually supposed to not fight in quite a few instances).

So it's harder to represent SH through a playable character, especially in a fast-paced game like Smash. Sure, they could bypass all that, but it would probably feel vastly different from the source material.

 

[Kalaam]

Honestly I don't see how Sora is the most requested since Ridley, K.Rool or Banjo. That's disregarding a lot of older requests. Isaac, to only name one.

 

[pupNapoleon]

Here's a question for ya.

Is Smash Bros a good place to represent the horror genre?

Franchises like Silent Hill and Resident Evil shaped gaming as we know it, but are they acceptable for Smash?

More fitting than a nude playboy witch, for sure.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

More fitting than a nude playboy witch, for sure.

Good thing we don't have any of those.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

I think it's more likely no-one on the sound team give a **** about Xenoblade X. They used two songs in the XB2 DLC just fine, if they can afford it for that then licensing it for Smash with a much higher budget should've been a cakewalk.

The sound team has clear biases - they like Castlevania, SNK and Mega Man, and don't care for Wario Land. Compare with Banjo-Kazooie, which got as many remixes because the original tracks didn't fit the mood of a fighting game according to Sakurai and Arms, which got the whole soundtrack and two remixes because they were already Smash-appropriate tracks. The only reason Codename STEAM has any music is because they pulled Fire Emblem remixes from it and the composer for that game rearranged his own work. Likewise, the only Xenoblade arrangement is from its own composers and consists of maybe 5 seconds of new material and the rest is just edited portions of the soundtrack. All new Mother tracks for Ultimate were from Motoi Sakuraba who apparently wanted his own takes for Fourside and Magicant. I could go on.

tl;dr franchises get songs because they're either IPs the arrangers are excited to work on, or if they're being added and don't have fitting tracks they can just slot in. No-one wanted to work on XBX music and there was no need to add it in - price wasn't the issue. For Smash, it usually isn't.

I'm afraid you misunderstood me as I wasn't talking about remixes, let me put it like this


Adding songs from 1 and 2 cost little to no effort.

Adding songs from X means striking a deal with Sawano and giving him royalties like with Nomura, Sugiyama and Masato Nakamura

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

I sometimes wonder if enthusiasm/requests for Sora are more muted than they would be otherwise because of skepticism about the permissions of the character re: Disney, and that the two Square Enix characters we do have both came with their own rights problems.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

I sometimes wonder if enthusiasm/requests for Sora are more muted than they would be otherwise because of skepticism about the permissions of the character re: Disney, and that the two Square Enix characters we do have both came with their own rights problems.

It definitely it, yes.

Support is always more visible and vocal when the community thinks its likely.

Like look at Cloud. He was almost never brought up, but it wasn't because no one wanted him.

 

[PSIGuy]

I'm afraid you misunderstood me as I wasn't talking about remixes, let me put it like this


Adding songs from 1 and 2 cost little to no effort.

Adding songs from X means striking a deal with Sawano and giving him royalties like with Nomura, Sugiyama and Masato Nakamura

I wasn't talking about remixes either. Everything I said about songs applies to him - if anyone on the sound team cares enough for music from that game, they'll ask for it. Even unremixed tracks have to be decided on by someone. Someone decided "Yes, the ruins level music from Wario Land is perfect, let's add that and nothing else". Someone decided Ice Cave Chant from DKC, despite appearing on a single level, should be one of the songs added to the game.

 

[SpectreJordan]

Here's a question for ya.

Is Smash Bros a good place to represent the horror genre?

Franchises like Silent Hill and Resident Evil shaped gaming as we know it, but are they acceptable for Smash?

I think Resident Evil would fit perfectly but not Silent Hill. The RE heroes are basically action stars that have designs that stand out. The Silent Hill protagonists are normal people & usually look normal too.

RE is scary but it’s pretty goofy with zombies & silly, gigantic monsters with glowing weak points; I think that would fit well in Smash. Silent Hill is more psychological horror which I think is a bit too mature for Smash.

However, a Chibi-Pyramid Head appeared in the latest Bomberman game so maybe a Mii costume could work.

Honestly I don't see how Sora is the most requested since Ridley, K.Rool or Banjo. That's disregarding a lot of older requests. Isaac, to only name one.

Isaac has been requested for a long time but he’s nowhere near Ridley, K Rool or Banjo’s level. He just doesn’t have the numbers to back him up.

I’d say the new top dogs are Crash, Geno & Sora with Bandana Dee & Doom Slayer following a bit behind.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

I wasn't talking about remixes either. Everything I said about songs applies to him - if anyone on the sound team cares enough for music from that game, they'll ask for it. Even unremixed tracks have to be decided on by someone. Someone decided "Yes, the ruins level music from Wario Land is perfect, let's add that and nothing else". Someone decided Ice Cave Chant from DKC, despite appearing on a single level, should be one of the songs added to the game.

Again though, royalties are an added cost and we've seen Nintendo cheapen out multiple times for Smash beyond just music, it's an added layer that gives the team less incentive to add X music which is a ****ing shame

 

[Hydreigonfan01]

Honestly I don't see how Sora is the most requested since Ridley, K.Rool or Banjo. That's disregarding a lot of older requests. Isaac, to only name one.

I feel like the top 3 are Crash, Geno and Sora.

 

[osby]

Good thing we don't have any of those.

We do have all of them, though.

Nude=
Playboy=
Witch=

 

[Kalaam]

I feel like the top 3 are Crash, Geno and Sora.

Honestly, going by the old guard I think Isaac is above Sora. Geno is likely one of the most requested too.
But even here just sort the newcomer speculation threads by most actives and you'll see who's actively most requested.

 

[ArkSPiTFirE]

Isaac has been requested for a long time but he’s nowhere near Ridley, K Rool or Banjo’s level. He just doesn’t have the numbers to back him up.

I’d say the new top dogs are Crash, Geno & Sora with Bandana Dee & Doom Slayer following a bit behind.

I disagree.

He definitely has the numbers. Before his assist trophy was revealed he was easily top 3 requested, up there with Banjo and Geno. He was 2nd in the Reddit poll before Ultimate's release and a large Ballot poll (not the ballot itself) had Isaac behind K. Rool and Banjo. You could argue there was a lot of bandwagoning because there were a lot of coincidences that lined up with Isaac being in Ultimate that ended up not happening, but I still think he's highly requested even if he's not predicted because of assist trophy status.

The only one of the above I think people want more, would be Geno, because damn his support is huge. Geno fever is real.