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Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

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ZelDan

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TheHeartbreakKid said:
"for Ultimate"

The notion of even MORE FE characters in future Smash games literally turns my stomach. I'm sorry, I have no animosity toward FE as a franchise, but it seems to me that people overlook Sakurai himself saying "there are too many Fire Emblem characters in the game"

Additional FE characters would just mean Sakurai was being forced to work on more characters he didn't care about, just because Nintendo told him to.

That's also part of what made Byleth such a disappointing end to the first FP. There wasn't a single character that felt like they were only included with financial incentive in mind. Banjo comes from a competing console manufacturer, Joker comes from a game that isn't even available on Nintendo systems, etc. Closest you could even argue is Hero, but Dragon Quest was so evidently an IP Sakurai had a lot of passion for, that you can't pretend like Sakurai wouldn't have wanted to work with that franchise.

Byleth's inclusion was such a sour end to the pass for so many cause it was reality hitting. It was Nintendo saying "yeah y'all had your fun, but we've got **** to sell." It wasn't about creativity, or imaginative gameplay, or pleasing fans, or celebrating history. It was about cramming one product into another product to promote a third product.

Byleth is pretty fun to play as, and I'm glad that their inclusion pleased a lot of you. But unlike Terry, Banjo, and the others... Byleth wasn't included for those reasons.
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Well, the next Smash games, assuming we don't just get ultimate ports or whatever, probably won't bring back all 8 of the current FE characters. I could definitely see a good chunk of FE characters get cut and get 1 or maybe 2 new ones and still have the overall count be less than 8.
 
Speed Weed

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Droodle

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Scoliosis Jones said:
A few things I'm thinking about:
1) With Paper Mario coming out this Friday, there's always the possibility that if the rumored Direct does air the 20th, Paper Mario could be the reveal. This would obviously be a 3rd Mario in a similar way to how we already have 3 Link's. However, while it sounds cringe to consider Sakurai saying, "What is Super Mario?", what about the possibility of him asking instead, "What is Paper Mario?". It still sounds silly, but I could see it.

This would capitalize on a recent release and also bring in what is likely another unique gameplay archetype. I'm not super into the idea of a 3rd Mario, nor am I a huge fan of adding another Mario character when we have so many and limited open spots left. But Paper Mario has always been a lowkey want of mine, and I think he'd probably be pretty cool.

I would say to keep that as a potential outcome for the next reveal. I'm not so sure about it happening too far out after that though, but I could absolutely be wrong. If Paper Mario isn't next, it's plausible that The Origami King gets a Spirit Event in the two weeks after, which leads me to my next point...

2) Obviously Dante is one of my most wanted characters. I was recently thinking about how spirits have been handled in base game and then post-launch. When Pokemon Sword and Shield received Spirits and Fire Emblem: Three Houses did not, it was speculated this was an indication that a Three Houses character stood a chance despite many fans still believing that Vol. 1 would be entirely 3rd party based. Sure enough, the game that everyone pointed out as "telling" got a playable character after not receiving Spirits.

During Volume 1, we received spirits for Astral Chain, Ring Fit Adventure, Resident Evil, and Trials of Mana, among others. Trails of Mana specifically stands out to me right now on the basis that it was a 3rd party release that was brought into Smash with spirits around the time of release. Devil May Cry 1-3 has recently released on Switch, and prior to that the series itself had next to know history on Nintendo platforms. With those releases, there hasn't been any Spirit Event. Devil May Cry 3, being a "Definitive Edition" also didn't get spirits. One might think this is strange overall, especially if another series like Trials of Mana got a Spirit event.

To be fair, with Ace Attorney Trilogy releasing on April 9th, 2019, there was no Spirit event for that either.

The case for Dante right now at the least is circumstantial, but it does seem interesting. We have the interview with Mr. Itsuno about Dante in Smash and how, "He should probably be on a Nintendo console first before being in Smash", which was followed by DMC1-3 being ported to Switch, thus putting Dante on Nintendo consoles. You then have DMC3 as a special edition on Switch, including particular changes that DMC fans were long asking for. Another character added on the heels of a Definitive Edition, granted with much more publicity in official material? Hero and Dragon Quest.

There's nothing that definitively puts Dante as a top contender for Vol. 2, but circumstantially these bits of information could be related. We received Octopath Traveler Spirits recently, which was based on the anniversary of the game releasing, so it's not out of the question that Devil May Cry could get an "anniversary" Spirit event either.

3) Not really something that I was thinking about, but to explain and conclude: Spirits, obviously, are simple representations of mostly non-playable characters. As with Min-Min, it's clear that becoming a Spirit is not a death warrant for the odds of becoming playable. The more compelling point, I feel, is the timing of Spirit events and releases relating to the potential of becoming a playable character.

We know that there wasn't a Three Houses spirit event, and we later learned that it was most likely because the spirits would come with a playable fighter. To make the fighter a more complete package, you wouldn't necessarily want to add content post-game that you already have a slot for later on. It's speculated that the choices for Volume 2 were finalized between June- November (at the ABSOLUTE LATEST) of 2019.

Fire Emblem Three Houses released nearly a year ago (July 2019), yet we didn't get Byleth until late January of 2020. Pokemon Sword & Shield released in November 2019, and we got the spirit event shortly following the release of the game. Trials of Mana released on April 24th, 2020 and we got the Spirit event shortly following the release. Ring Fit Adventure released October 2019, and spirits were revealed in March. Astral Chain released in August 2019, and the spirits came just before Byleth was revealed in January. Resident Evil received spirits in late November 2019, which was on the heels of nearly the entire series being announced for Switch around E3 (RE5+6 on Switch released on October 29th, 2019). Animal Crossing New Horizons released in March 2020, and we got spirits shortly afterwards on April 2nd, 2020. It seems that around particular releases (not all), there are spirit events included within a week or two, but this wasn't the case with any of the DMC games. DMC 1 released in June 2019, DMC 2 released in September 2019, and DMC 3 came out in February 2020.

This is highly circumstantial, I will not deny that. However I do think that keeping these things is mind is important to take a deeper look at what we could get.

It should also be noted that we've never gotten Crash Bandicoot Spirits either.
Thanks for reading the Jonespost. I'm not claiming any of this confirms any particular characters, because much could change. Might I have just jinxed Dante, Crash, or Phoenix Wright? What do I know? I just think it's interesting that certain games get Spirit Events, and others don't. The timing suggests that certain games got events while characters were chosen for Vol. 2, and Byleth/Three Houses missing an event eventually led to their eventual inclusion as playable. Based on the timing of the choices for Volume 2, this would suggest that Ring Fit Adventure, Astral Chain, Resident Evil, Trials of Mana, and potentially Pokemon are out of contention. Pokemon is arguably an exception because of being Pokemon, and I would agree that it could still get a playable character considering the context of the spirits we received.

This isn't anything concrete necessarily but I think it's worth paying attention to.

EDIT: Another spirit event was for Link's Awakening. It released on September 20th, and we got a Spirit event PRIOR to it releasing in June. This appears to be an outlier in a similar sense to Octopath Traveler with the anniversary spirits.

EDIT 2: Daemon X Machina also had a Spirit Event. It was released on September 13th, with a spirit event revealed September 24th.

EDIT 3: I questioned when spirit events started and if that would affect Ace Attorney at all. The first "event" was Super Mario Party, despite Pikachu and Eevee spirits released based on whichever game data you had. SMP was in late December 2018, while the Ace Attorney Collection didn't release until 2019.
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Interestingly, the only big Nintendo games that have released in the past year and yet have 0 spirit events so far relating to them are Luigi's Mansion 3, and Xenoblade Definitive Edition. Luigi's Mansion is nearing 9 months since it's release, making it one of the longest 1st party game that went without a spirit after Ultimate released(if it gets one, that is). Perhaps they thought that it was already represented enough? But there are plenty of other well represented series that also ended up getting spirits too, and it probably wouldn't be too difficult creating a spirit board for LM3.

Xenoblade is less "suspicious" due to the fact that the game/characters are technically already spirits; and comparatively it didn't release too long ago, so they may have thought there was no need for newer spirits. But even then it probably isn't too difficult just copy pasting the same fight but with a newer artwork of the characters. That said, Rex was a notable absence from the base game, and he is still a highly requested character especially in Japan where he usually places at/near the top, so maybe they're saving the event up for a Xeno character. It's worth noting that the Torna DLC characters from just before Ultimate released, are still not spirits; and the Octopath Traveler spirit event showcases that they aren't afraid to add spirits from games that released before Ultimate came out.

So while the chances are low, it's possible that they may be saving Luigi's Mansion 3 and Xenoblade DE/Torna spirits for a corresponding Mario and XC character. Or perhaps they're saving them to pair it up with some non-Smash related announcements instead. Or maybe they were never supposed to get events in the first place.
 
SKX31

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Nekoo said:
That reminds me how ****ed up Brawl's cycle was.
Remember waiting 6months between the announcement of Brawl and the first character announcement being ****ing Fox being back?
Because I do.
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NGL I remember that trailer, and thought that just getting more footage of the already-revealed newcomers was good enough.

In retrospect, they should've kept wavedashing in Brawl and shown it off with Fox. See how the community would've reacted then.

ZelDan said:
Well, the next Smash games, assuming we don't just get ultimate ports or whatever, probably won't bring back all 8 of the current FE characters. I could definitely see a good chunk of FE characters get cut and get 1 or maybe 2 new ones and still have the overall count be less than 8.
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It is an interesting topic (even if it is going to be a hard pill to swallow whenever Smash 6, Smash Live Service Edition or whatever hits store shelves).

That said, kinda think it's safe to say that :ultcorrin: will likely be a goner if only because Fates will be much less relevant by lets say 2025. :ultbyleth: is not going to be the new shiny marketing opportunity either. One could slot in Echoes to their counterparts (a la one of the CSS options) - although I dunno if Nintendo will feel the need to represent Awakening with 3 characters. So :ultlucina: and :ultchrom: would be in uneasy terrain.

The only ones who look to be safe are :ultmarth:, :ultroy:, :ultike: and :ultrobin: because of their gameplay styles and historical presence within the Smash games.
 
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NonSpecificGuy

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Speed Weed

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if that leak were real, i'd honestly be super conflicted

because on one hand, ryza would be aggressively meh to me

but on the other hand, POWER STONE 3 BAYBEEEEEEEEEE
 
3BitSaurus

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Y'know, despite being fake (and Ryza being a bit of a head-scratcher for a choice), I have to give this guy props on naming the BoTW sequel "Return of Ganon".

If anything, it's a nice reference.
 
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SharkLord

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Icedragonadam said:
https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/234547-super-smash-bros-ultimate/78849167/942158311

Another 4chan rumor we can point and laugh at.
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Samus' Revenge sounds like a rather... Odd name. Almost a little edgy, I'd say. Who's she getting revenge on? If anything, that'd be Sylux's shtick.
I'm so-so on Kirby 2021; It might take a little longer if they're making, say, a 3D Kirby game, but at the same time Kirby's been in a nice schedule of one mainline game every two years. Plus, Kirby's 30th anniversary would be the next year, and I doubt they'd want to miss out on that.
Ah yes, Moon. Is that a working title or something?
Ryza for Smash? I'd... Actually be okay with that. I've seen some clips; It looks pretty fun. I'd pick it up, but Xenoblade is taking longer than I expected and I'm hesitant on buying any more RPGs until later. Hayabusa'd be the most likely KT rep, too. Still, I'd be completely fine if true.
 
Icedragonadam

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Has there ever been an actual leak of a full Nintendo direct? And not one that's posted just an hour before one is streamed?
 
Nekoo

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Icedragonadam said:
Has there ever been an actual leak of a full Nintendo direct? And not one that's posted just an hour before one is streamed?
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Happened once or twice in their lifetimes, so....not a lot.
Edit: Maybe more, Pokémon directs tends to leaks a lot lmao
 
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3BitSaurus

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SharkLord said:
Ah yes, Moon. Is that a working title or something?
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No, that's the title of a Japan-only RPG that was (I think) coming to the west for the first time. The full name is Moon: Remix RPG Adventure.

EDIT: Yup, just checked, it's already on the japanese Eshop, and a western release has been confirmed with no date.
 
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ZelDan

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Guynamednelson said:
It already got Hulu before Netflix, wouldn't surprise me.
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True.

I was basically using the fake leak as an excuse to wonder what the hell is going on when it comes to why we STILL don't have Netflix on Switch.

The goddamn 3DS got Netflix. What's the Switch's excuse?
 
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Icedragonadam

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3BitSaurus said:
Since Atelier seems to be our boredom-killer of the moment:

I know jack about that series. If there are any fans here: what character from it would be the most likely in your opinion?
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Marie is the first protagonist of the series.
Elie is the protagonist of the 2nd game, and is one of the most popular installments in Japan.
Rorona's game helped revived the series
And there's Ryza from the 2nd Revitalization of the series.
 
Hydreigonfan01

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3BitSaurus said:
Since Atelier seems to be our boredom-killer of the moment:

I know jack about that series. If there are any fans here: what character from it would be the most likely in your opinion?
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Ryza. She's the main character and her name is literally in the title.
 
Droodle

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Don't really buy the leak at all. It makes little sense to throw in another Origami King trailer after the game had already released, not to mention; they had the perfect time to show a new trailer this week, but all they did was repeat the 1st trailer.

And it may just be me believing this, but a ton of insiders have pretty much said that PIKMIN 3 Switch is coming out soon so there's no way it wouldn't be shown off. I know, don't believe insiders and all that... but a lot of them have pretty solid track records and they've leaked the SM 3D collection/the July 20th direct that pretty much every puts in their fake leaks/rumors nowadays.

That said, if the leak is real and Ryza does end up being character 7. It'd kinda confirm the theory that this new pass will feature characters that all appeal to this generation of gamers. It'd also increase the chances of a Trails character a lot, so I'd be OK with it but it'd suck if you want Ryu (who should honestly be the first Tecmo rep bar none).

3BitSaurus said:
Since Atelier seems to be our boredom-killer of the moment:

I know jack about that series. If there are any fans here: what character from it would be the most likely in your opinion?
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It'd probably be Ryza considering that her game was the most popular one so far. But they could probably do a HERO situation if they tried hard.
 
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D

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Icedragonadam said:
https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/234547-super-smash-bros-ultimate/78849167/942158311

Another 4chan rumor we can point and laugh at.
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First off, it's 4chan so obviously this ain't it.

Second, Ryza would be very unexpected for Vol 2 but somehow predictable for Koei-Tecmo to choose as the character they want in Smash. Atelier being chosen over Dynasty Warriors and Ninja Gaiden would be a huge deal because Atelier is about as niche as you could get, but when you look at how Atelier Ryza is now the biggest game of the franchise and how much attention Koei-Tecmo has given the game a crossover from ROTK XIV, DoA 6, and that Fairy Tail RPG being made by the same developers, I can definitely see them wanting Sakurai to add Ryza in Smash as well even if Nintendo are the 1s that call the shots.

I'd be pretty thrilled with Ryza for various reasons, and she'll end up being my favorite DLC character so far if it happens to be the case.
 
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Hinata

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3BitSaurus said:
Since Atelier seems to be our boredom-killer of the moment:

I know jack about that series. If there are any fans here: what character from it would be the most likely in your opinion?
Click to expand...
Atelier is one of those series where the main character changes pretty much every game. But I'd have to give it to Ryza, based on what my girlfriend has told me about the series and how popular her game was.
 
3BitSaurus

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Droodle said:
That said, if the leak is real and Ryza does end up being character 7. It'd kinda confirm the theory that this new pass will feature characters that all appeal to this generation of gamers.
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I... kinda fail to see how? You'd think they'd appeal to the current generation with a big recent title like P5 or something more mainstream.

I may be speaking out of line, but... Atelier is definitely not what I think about when someone says "appeals to new players", with how relatively niche it seems to be. Especially because a quick search told me the series originates from the 90s.
 
Professor Pumpkaboo

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Hinata said:
Atelier is one of those series where the main character changes pretty much every game. But I'd have to give it to Ryza, based on what my girlfriend has told me about the series and how popular her game was.
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her game is only popular because people are unnessarly horny degens for Ryza
 
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Icedragonadam

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This is getting attention because of Ryza 2 being leaked in Australia, but we had several times a rumor get something no one would haved guessed right.

Like the League of Legends rumor that got the Trials of Mana spirit event right, or that Adeleine fan who exactly predicted the Hero's alts. A broken clock can be right twice a day.
 
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