Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[Perkilator]

And how do you know Sakurai would make Waluigi competitively unviable?

IDK, I never said he would.

Let’s just drop this. Like Nekoo said, let’s just wait and see throughout Vol. 2.

 

[Brindor]

I need a new Smash Bros character trailer already

I

NEED

IT

 

[AceAttorney9000]

I need a new Smash Bros character trailer already

I

NEED

IT

Smash fans when the July 20th Direct finally arrives, 2020 colorized

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

It seems pretty clear that with any reading material, especially when juxtaposed with an external text that has an immediate connection, there’s always room for inferences.

There’s also the fact that, when considered with Sakurai’s comments on Min Min in the presentation on “everyone is the protagonist”, it creates a picture that Min Min is a mix of “dev request”, “gameplay potential” and “is a protagonist”.

I mean otherwise, if you choose to ignore the presentation text and only look at this column, you’re selectively creating a narrative that better suits the “chances” of particular characters over others.

Source: I am an ELA teacher who has taught text analysis, and writing from sources essays. I also wrote argumentative essays while going through my college program in which I had to support an argument and address counterclaims to my argument. We do not get to select which information is true and which isn’t, especially when it comes from the literal same person.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Perkilator is always looking for some flimsy excuse as to why an AT can't be DLC.

Ok but in this case, there have been more DLC characters disappear from the face of the earth in comparison to how many shifted the meta. Other than Joker, I can't think of any DLC characters Ultimate had that popped up often after they were fresh and new, it's not even a Waluigi specific thing

 

[MooMew64]

I suppose Sakurai thinking Min Min was the standout choice makes sense: In order for an ARMS character to work in something like Smash, they'd need options that can work for their trademark ranged punches, but also have tools that can deal with close-quarter attacks in a pinch. Min Min's kicks fit that concept really well, so that coupled with being Yabuki's favorite seems to be what sealed the deal.

I'm really curious to see how the next presentation will go. Sakurai seems to have ideas to help improve it, although that's a little hard for me to imagine when the current formula for Smash presentations is already pretty close to perfect for me, lol.

 

[MarioRaccoon]

I want a season 3 with 4 more fighters so CSS can be a perfect square, but I know that this stuff resolves around lots of things around Nintendo and Namco-Bandai, so who knows.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

I want a season 3 with 4 more fighters so CSS can be a perfect square, but I know that this stuff resolves around lots of things around Nintendo and Namco-Bandai, so who knows.

It would again line up with the remaining 4 WoL slots... God idk how many times I said this

 

[Speed Weed]

It would again line up with the remaining 4 WoL slots... God idk how many times I said this

new drinking game, take a sip everytime rie mentions the wol slots

 

[MarioRaccoon]

It would again line up with the remaining 4 WoL slots... God idk how many times I said this

Yes, I said that because of WoL slots and also, the roester would be 92 fighters, adding Alph and the seven koopalings, you get a 100 fighter roster. That is frankly amazing.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Yes, I said that because of WoL slots and also, the roester would be 92 fighters, adding Alph and the seven koopalings, you get a 100 fighter roster. That is frankly amazing.

I don’t count alts toward fighter count but I do count echoes, PT’s three Pokémon and the three Miis

 

[Will]

Joke's on you. Leif would be an awesome character.

You severely misunderstand.

 

[Blade of Evil's Bane]

...selectively creating a narrative that better suits the “chances” of particular characters over others.

So you're suggesting that someone could do such a thing here on Smashboards.com!?

Spoiler

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

I would say given the fact that Sakurai has mentioned or alluded to the fact that this is the last bit of DLC more than once, I would assume that this is the case until otherwise announced.

That goes for additional echo fighters, standalone fighters, or a Pass 3 or 4. For now, anyway, it should be assumed there will not be any DLC aside from the Fighter Pass Vol. 2 characters and the content of their respective updates.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I don’t count alts toward fighter count but I do count echoes, PT’s three Pokémon and the three Miis

Nor does the game itself. Echoes are treated as separate fighters, and everyone else has their own number proper. Alternate costumes don't get this, whether they are a model swap like-character or not(Pikmin & Alph are the same as the Pink costume for Luigi for all intents and purposes. They just have unique costume data due to not being just a recolor, of course).

That said, how many of these costume slots do we have left now? Min Min didn't have any special alts, so she only took up 1 slot. Piranha Plant took up 2 alone, the start of the special costume data(I don't know if the data we found also referred to the base game costumes like Mario and Inkling).

 

[MooMew64]

I don't think it's impossible for there to be more DLC, but I wouldn't bet on it right now. To my memory, Sakurai never gave the impression that FP1 was all we were getting, while he's stated numerous times now that FP2 is gonna be it. Things could change, but it is definitely worth noting as Scoliosis Jones said that we shouldn't just assume he or Nintendo will go back on the decision just yet.

 

[cmbsfm]

If this was any other fighting game, I’d expect another pass. But Nintendo doesn’t really support their games for that long. I feel like MK8 and Mario Maker support ended rather quickly. So yeah I think this is it even though I’d love for them to fill up those last four WoL slots.

 

[andree123]

No one's brought this up here yet? No one's brought this up here yet. Alright.

Fans Have Discovered A Private Mario 35th Anniversary Twitter Account https://t.co/cJ7aTahVxU #NintendoSwitch #SuperMario pic.twitter.com/a9hg9Xif3U

— Nintendo Life (@nintendolife) July 15, 2020

here’s something that may add to the supermario35th twitter account’s credibility: it was created on march 5th 2020 & the earliest mention i can find of the mario remasters rumor was on march 30th 2020, so the account actually predates it unless i’m mistaken? pic.twitter.com/uC9OVCWBX0

— meeper @ porygon2.bsky.social | #CeasefireNOW (@Meeper12346) July 15, 2020

So this is where the past mario 3d remasters rumors come from?

 

[SKX31]

Ok but in this case, there have been more DLC characters disappear from the face of the earth in comparison to how many shifted the meta. Other than Joker, I can't think of any DLC characters Ultimate had that popped up often after they were fresh and new, it's not even a Waluigi specific thing

Okay, I'm gonna include Smash 4's DLC for completion's sake. Smash 4's DLC will be spoilered to take up less space.

Spoiler: Smash 4's DLC characters

Outside of and *, who dominated Smash 4 together with (especially pre-patch Diddy with the Hoo Hah combo) and :

did pretty well, 10th (A tier) in Sm4sh's competitive and thus saw quite a bit of play. Ultimate nerfed Mewtwo and the game hasn't been terribly kind to it due to pros exploiting the tail hurtbox like crazy, but Mewtwo's considered a mid tier at the moment. Mewtwo got buffs recently, so that might help.

is in the same range: tied for 11th together with Marth in Sm4sh and thus also saw a lot of playtime. In Ultimate Ken is way, way more popular, but Ryu's still considered a very effective character (thanks to buffs in Ultimate's 3.1.0 and 7.0.0)

did likewise relatively well, and is 13th (B tier) on the Sm4sh tier list. Zackray, a young and extremely good Japanese player (currently playing Joker and Wolf in Ultimate) started out as 4's Corrin. Corrin's had a miserable time in Ultimate's competitive because (s)he lacks solid KO options, but 8.0's buffs to the Dragon Lancer might change that.

And we come to , where a gap starts to show. Lucas is tied 28th (low C tier) in Sm4sh together with... . Yup. Some competitive players chose him, but not to the extent of the above. Most Ultimate players see Ult Lucas as a solid mid-tier, with a couple considering him low high tier due to an extensive combo game as well as PK Freeze and PK Fire being able to edge guard.

fared the worst out of Sm4sh's DLC characters. 42nd (E tier). With a lot of players disagreeing either way due to his polarized strengths and weaknesses. But then came Ultimate, and fixes to him saw emerge as an almost- top tier threat.

*( sees regular play in competitive, while is most often a secondary due to the massive nerfs she got. Kola / Sparg0 are Cloud players, Mystearica is one of the best Ult Bayos - as well as one of the best Ult Zeldas and Palus)

is obvious, due to MKLeo's rampage with the character and others (like the aformentioned Zackray) picking him up. Top tier. MKLeo's #1 and Zackray's #7 Worldwide on the last (pre-pandemic and pre-allegations) ranking.

has seen extensive time and is considered a solid high tier. Riddles, a Canadian Terry player, is ranked #47.

Obviously hasn't seen any major competitive events due to the pandemic and people not hosting tournaments online. Still, ESAM (#14) rates her very highly and is thinking of seriously using her in tournaments.

saw that storm (you know, with South Australia's scene banning Hero), but outside of that, not that much. Mid / low high tier, depending on who you ask. Komorikiri (Japanese) has done really well with Hero in Japanese tournaments.

is considered solidly mid-tier / low high tier, and has one particular top level player using them together with Duck Hunt: Raito (#17) from Japan. Had Tweek (#3) stuck with the duo after trying them out and placing Top 8 in a major tournament, perhaps they'd be in a higher position. Tier lists and pros using characters are notoriously opinion based (and small factors do play a part in intense settings such as the competitive scene), so there's possibly room for the duo to rise.

hasn't seen much time due to the pandemic shuttering offline events, but MKLeo notably used him to help win a major tournament. Byleth's not considered super-promising by many though, especially since (s)he struggles against faster rushdown characters in competitive settings.


In short (debut games considered):

3 Top tiers (Bayo, Cloud in 4, Joker)
4 High tiers (Mewtwo, Ryu, Corrin in 4, Terry, perhaps Min Min, Hero and Banjo-Kazooie)
(Possibly) 4 Mid Tiers (Perhaps Min Min, Hero, B-K, probably Byleth)
2-3 Low Tiers (Lucas, Roy in 4, possibly Byleth)
Link to ESAM's really early 8.0.0 Tier list here. It's his opinion, yes (any tier list is opinion), but the most notable thing is he sees as Top Tier. (Also note that he only sees 5 characters as Low Tier - and even they can cause carnage. Again, Ultimate's really balanced.)

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Okay, I'm gonna include Smash 4's DLC for completion's sake. Smash 4's DLC will be spoilered to take up less space.

Spoiler: Smash 4's DLC characters

Outside of and *, who dominated Smash 4 together with (especially pre-patch Diddy with the Hoo Hah combo) and :

did pretty well, 10th (A tier) in Sm4sh's competitive and thus saw quite a bit of play. Ultimate nerfed Mewtwo and the game hasn't been terribly kind to it due to pros exploiting the tail hurtbox like crazy, but Mewtwo's considered a mid tier at the moment. Mewtwo got buffs recently, so that might help.

is in the same range: tied for 11th together with Marth in Sm4sh and thus also saw a lot of playtime. In Ultimate Ken is way, way more popular, but Ryu's still considered a very effective character (thanks to buffs in Ultimate's 3.1.0 and 7.0.0)

did likewise relatively well, and is 13th (B tier) on the Sm4sh tier list. Zackray, a young and extremely good Japanese player (currently playing Joker and Wolf in Ultimate) started out as 4's Corrin. Corrin's had a miserable time in Ultimate's competitive because (s)he lacks solid KO options, but 8.0's buffs to the Dragon Lancer might change that.

And we come to , where a gap starts to show. Lucas is tied 28th (low C tier) in Sm4sh together with... . Yup. Some competitive players chose him, but not to the extent of the above. Most Ultimate players see Ult Lucas as a solid mid-tier, with a couple considering him low high tier due to an extensive combo game as well as PK Freeze and PK Fire being able to edge guard.

fared the worst out of Sm4sh's DLC characters. 42nd (E tier). With a lot of players disagreeing either way due to his polarized strengths and weaknesses. But then came Ultimate, and fixes to him saw emerge as an almost- top tier threat.

*( sees regular play in competitive, while is most often a secondary due to the massive nerfs she got. Kola / Sparg0 are Cloud players, Mystearica is one of the best Ult Bayos - as well as one of the best Ult Zeldas and Palus)

is obvious, due to MKLeo's rampage with the character and others (like the aformentioned Zackray) picking him up. Top tier. MKLeo's #1 and Zackray's #7 Worldwide on the last (pre-pandemic and pre-allegations) ranking.

has seen extensive time and is considered a solid high tier. Riddles, a Canadian Terry player, is ranked #47.

Obviously hasn't seen any major competitive events due to the pandemic and people not hosting tournaments online. Still, ESAM (#14) rates her very highly and is thinking of seriously using her in tournaments.

saw that storm (you know, with South Australia's scene banning Hero), but outside of that, not that much. Mid / low high tier, depending on who you ask. Komorikiri (Japanese) has done really well with Hero in Japanese tournaments.

is considered solidly mid-tier / low high tier, and has one particular top level player using them together with Duck Hunt: Raito (#17) from Japan. Had Tweek (#3) stuck with the duo after trying them out and placing Top 8 in a major tournament, perhaps they'd be in a higher position. Tier lists and pros using characters are notoriously opinion based (and small factors do play a part in intense settings such as the competitive scene), so there's possibly room for the duo to rise.

hasn't seen much time due to the pandemic shuttering offline events, but MKLeo notably used him to help win a major tournament. Byleth's not considered super-promising by many though, especially since (s)he struggles against faster rushdown characters in competitive settings.


In short (debut games considered):

3 Top tiers (Bayo, Cloud in 4, Joker)
4 High tiers (Mewtwo, Ryu, Corrin in 4, Terry, perhaps Min Min, Hero and Banjo-Kazooie)
(Possibly) 4 Mid Tiers (Perhaps Min Min, Hero, B-K, probably Byleth)
2-3 Low Tiers (Lucas, Roy in 4, possibly Byleth)
Link to ESAM's really early 8.0.0 Tier list here. It's his opinion, yes (any tier list is opinion), but the most notable thing is he sees as Top Tier. (Also note that he only sees 5 characters as Low Tier - and even they can cause carnage. Again, Ultimate's really balanced.)

Idk man Joker's the only one I see played frequently in competitive. Not to mention some of these examples are odd.

Min Min is new and in a different meta due to online, nobody has a solid grasp on her quite yet in terms of counterplay, she can very well end up like Belmont and be bottom 5 after 2 months, not to mention ESAM Opinions is a meme for a reason.

Hero's a mixed bag as they make low-level players struggle, anyone who knows what Hero can do... Not so much.

Is Banjo REALLY considered a high tier? That goes against everything I've heard and seen about the character, he's decent at everything like the Pits and just like the Pits, he doesn't excel at anything in particular, not to mention that after his brief period in which he was new and didn't have counterplay, his usage dropped, including usage from Tweek.


you mention MKLeo winning a major with Byleth, but failed to mention that A: Byleth was very new at the time so they weren't figured out yet and B: both players were clearly messing around and having fun at the end of the set, suggesting that they weren't being serious after it was obvious MKLeo was winning.

Also I fail to see the point in mentioning specific players who were already highly ranked before the characters dropped, not only because it sooner suggests that the players are good rather than the characters as seen with many top players having had successful matches with trash characters instead of the characters being good, but there's also character specialists like ESAM.

Final note, Joker's not considered the best in the game because the best player in the world plays him, he's considered the best in the game because of how strong he is in a 1v1 setting thanks to his amazing tools and how multiple players have shown that his success isn't just theoretical

 

[Dark Bagel]

I suppose Sakurai thinking Min Min was the standout choice makes sense: In order for an ARMS character to work in something like Smash, they'd need options that can work for their trademark ranged punches, but also have tools that can deal with close-quarter attacks in a pinch. Min Min's kicks fit that concept really well, so that coupled with being Yabuki's favorite seems to be what sealed the deal.

Yeah, I can definitely see how Min Min springs to mind easily from other forthcoming ARMS candidates in the eyes of Sakurai and Yabuki. When it comes to covering her bases in combat, the Ramen Bomber bowl-dly stands out from the rest. Sakurai and the dev team really did outstanding work developing all her combat pasta-bilities for the smash scene.

 

[Perkilator]

Yeah, I can definitely see how Min Min springs to mind easily from other forthcoming ARMS candidates in the eyes of Sakurai and Yabuki. When it comes to covering her bases in combat, the Ramen Bomber bowl-dly stands out from the rest. Sakurai and the dev team really did outstanding work developing all her combat pasta-bilities for the smash scene.

......Oh, brrrrrrOTHER, THIS GUY STINKS!

 

[Nekoo]

Idk man Joker's the only one I see played frequently in competitive. Not to mention some of these examples are odd.

Min Min is new and in a different meta due to online, nobody has a solid grasp on her quite yet in terms of counterplay, she can very well end up like Belmont and be bottom 5 after 2 months, not to mention ESAM Opinions is a meme for a reason.

Hero's a mixed bag as they make low-level players struggle, anyone who knows what Hero can do... Not so much.

Is Banjo REALLY considered a high tier? That goes against everything I've heard and seen about the character, he's decent at everything like the Pits and just like the Pits, he doesn't excel at anything in particular, not to mention that after his brief period in which he was new and didn't have counterplay, his usage dropped, including usage from Tweek.


you mention MKLeo winning a major with Byleth, but failed to mention that A: Byleth was very new at the time so they weren't figured out yet and B: both players were clearly messing around and having fun at the end of the set, suggesting that they weren't being serious after it was obvious MKLeo was winning.

Also I fail to see the point in mentioning specific players who were already highly ranked before the characters dropped, not only because it sooner suggests that the players are good rather than the characters as seen with many top players having had successful matches with trash characters instead of the characters being good, but there's also character specialists like ESAM.

Final note, Joker's not considered the best in the game because the best player in the world plays him, he's considered the best in the game because of how strong he is in a 1v1 setting thanks to his amazing tools and how multiple players have shown that his success isn't just theoretical

Joker and Terry are the one having really active and passionate use in competitive scene. Whenever it's from Local to Supermajor.
Hero is a hit or miss, with Salem counterpicking him, he never had a solo main sadly, he always was a once trick pony counter pick.
Banjo had a high popularity the first 2 weeks of his release and then got dropped the hardest with not much stardom or any top 50/100 maining him.
And both Byleth and Min Min didnt had time to shine to really know any competitive future when we got hit with that pandemic.

 

[Will]

I suppose Sakurai thinking Min Min was the standout choice makes sense: In order for an ARMS character to work in something like Smash, they'd need options that can work for their trademark ranged punches, but also have tools that can deal with close-quarter attacks in a pinch. Min Min's kicks fit that concept really well, so that coupled with being Yabuki's favorite seems to be what sealed the deal.

Man, I remember when Spring Man was the #1 advocate either because of a made-up protagonist rule or because they just wanted other assists playable.

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

It seems pretty clear that with any reading material, especially when juxtaposed with an external text that has an immediate connection, there’s always room for inferences.

There’s also the fact that, when considered with Sakurai’s comments on Min Min in the presentation on “everyone is the protagonist”, it creates a picture that Min Min is a mix of “dev request”, “gameplay potential” and “is a protagonist”.

I mean otherwise, if you choose to ignore the presentation text and only look at this column, you’re selectively creating a narrative that better suits the “chances” of particular characters over others.

Source: I am an ELA teacher who has taught text analysis, and writing from sources essays. I also wrote argumentative essays while going through my college program in which I had to support an argument and address counterclaims to my argument. We do not get to select which information is true and which isn’t, especially when it comes from the literal same person.

but Jones, how can you expect me to actually do better when the facts might contradict what I want to believe?

It's much better to just ignore the evidence that goes against me in favor of the evidence that supports me! That way I can continue to justify myself!

And don't ask me to do better either because that's a personal insult; how dare you expect better from me.

 

[Hydreigonfan01]

Okay, I'm gonna include Smash 4's DLC for completion's sake. Smash 4's DLC will be spoilered to take up less space.

Spoiler: Smash 4's DLC characters

Outside of and *, who dominated Smash 4 together with (especially pre-patch Diddy with the Hoo Hah combo) and :

did pretty well, 10th (A tier) in Sm4sh's competitive and thus saw quite a bit of play. Ultimate nerfed Mewtwo and the game hasn't been terribly kind to it due to pros exploiting the tail hurtbox like crazy, but Mewtwo's considered a mid tier at the moment. Mewtwo got buffs recently, so that might help.

is in the same range: tied for 11th together with Marth in Sm4sh and thus also saw a lot of playtime. In Ultimate Ken is way, way more popular, but Ryu's still considered a very effective character (thanks to buffs in Ultimate's 3.1.0 and 7.0.0)

did likewise relatively well, and is 13th (B tier) on the Sm4sh tier list. Zackray, a young and extremely good Japanese player (currently playing Joker and Wolf in Ultimate) started out as 4's Corrin. Corrin's had a miserable time in Ultimate's competitive because (s)he lacks solid KO options, but 8.0's buffs to the Dragon Lancer might change that.

And we come to , where a gap starts to show. Lucas is tied 28th (low C tier) in Sm4sh together with... . Yup. Some competitive players chose him, but not to the extent of the above. Most Ultimate players see Ult Lucas as a solid mid-tier, with a couple considering him low high tier due to an extensive combo game as well as PK Freeze and PK Fire being able to edge guard.

fared the worst out of Sm4sh's DLC characters. 42nd (E tier). With a lot of players disagreeing either way due to his polarized strengths and weaknesses. But then came Ultimate, and fixes to him saw emerge as an almost- top tier threat.

*( sees regular play in competitive, while is most often a secondary due to the massive nerfs she got. Kola / Sparg0 are Cloud players, Mystearica is one of the best Ult Bayos - as well as one of the best Ult Zeldas and Palus)

is obvious, due to MKLeo's rampage with the character and others (like the aformentioned Zackray) picking him up. Top tier. MKLeo's #1 and Zackray's #7 Worldwide on the last (pre-pandemic and pre-allegations) ranking.

has seen extensive time and is considered a solid high tier. Riddles, a Canadian Terry player, is ranked #47.

Obviously hasn't seen any major competitive events due to the pandemic and people not hosting tournaments online. Still, ESAM (#14) rates her very highly and is thinking of seriously using her in tournaments.

saw that storm (you know, with South Australia's scene banning Hero), but outside of that, not that much. Mid / low high tier, depending on who you ask. Komorikiri (Japanese) has done really well with Hero in Japanese tournaments.

is considered solidly mid-tier / low high tier, and has one particular top level player using them together with Duck Hunt: Raito (#17) from Japan. Had Tweek (#3) stuck with the duo after trying them out and placing Top 8 in a major tournament, perhaps they'd be in a higher position. Tier lists and pros using characters are notoriously opinion based (and small factors do play a part in intense settings such as the competitive scene), so there's possibly room for the duo to rise.

hasn't seen much time due to the pandemic shuttering offline events, but MKLeo notably used him to help win a major tournament. Byleth's not considered super-promising by many though, especially since (s)he struggles against faster rushdown characters in competitive settings.


In short (debut games considered):

3 Top tiers (Bayo, Cloud in 4, Joker)
4 High tiers (Mewtwo, Ryu, Corrin in 4, Terry, perhaps Min Min, Hero and Banjo-Kazooie)
(Possibly) 4 Mid Tiers (Perhaps Min Min, Hero, B-K, probably Byleth)
2-3 Low Tiers (Lucas, Roy in 4, possibly Byleth)
Link to ESAM's really early 8.0.0 Tier list here. It's his opinion, yes (any tier list is opinion), but the most notable thing is he sees as Top Tier. (Also note that he only sees 5 characters as Low Tier - and even they can cause carnage. Again, Ultimate's really balanced.)

Would like to point out that Zackray wasn't the best Corrin in Smash 4, that was Cosmos.

 

[Nekoo]

Smash Speculation since 2006 in one picture

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Joker and Terry are the one having really active and passionate use in competitive scene. Whenever it's from Local to Supermajor.
Hero is a hit or miss, with Salem counterpicking him, he never had a solo main sadly, he always was a once trick pony counter pick.
Banjo had a high popularity the first 2 weeks of his release and then got dropped the hardest with not much stardom or any top 50/100 maining him.
And both Byleth and Min Min didnt had time to shine to really know any competitive future when we got hit with that pandemic.

**** me the ONE thing I forget to say was about inconsistency inherently hindering a character who's best tools are locked behind RNG. And that Banjo point is exactly what I mean, people ALWAYS hype up the brand new character when people haven't figured out how to fight them and what their weaknesses are, generally inflating results at launch with most characters dropping in usage and results after a month or so because people figured them out. I'd be very surprised if Byleth and Min Min found high success say, 6 months after the offline meta's back up again.

Oh and I just realized that nobody mentioned ****ing Plant during this and for good reason lmao

 

[I.D.]

Why are people surprised that Sakurai reaffirmed something that he has already stated just a few months ago?

 

[ZelDan]

I think we'd have to see how Waluigi actually turns out before we judge if the competitive scene would care about him or not (assuming Waluigi even makes it into Ultimate at all in the first place of course).

If Waluigi turned out to be REALLY good or top-tier good, I doubt the competitve scene would ignore him.

 

[Cosmic77]

The competitive scene doesn't give a crap about favorite characters if those characters aren't their best shot at winning. Ridley, K. Rool, and Banjo have all struggled to gain a significant following in Smash, despite the massive outcry for them.

If Waluigi is good, people will use him. If he's bad, people won't use him. Simple as that.

 

[Dinoman96]

Man, I remember when Spring Man was the #1 advocate either because of a made-up protagonist rule or because they just wanted other assists playable.

To be fair...they literally just rationalized Min Min's inclusion by saying "everyone in ARMS is the main protagonist!". It's clearly something that's a very real thing lmao

I think ARMS just had more flexibility because it's not a single player focused game with a clear main character like Byleth in Three Houses, nor is it something like Splatoon where the clear main player characters are the Inklings. It's a multiplayer game with an ensemble cast of different and diverse characters, and one that really has no story outside of just "become the champion of the ARMS Grand Prix!".

Spring Man was obviously designed to be sort of a poster boy character for ARMS, but really in the game itself, none of the characters are clearly anymore important than each other, and with ARMS being a new IP, SM didn't really have the same 30+ years of legacy like Ryu and Terry did. Hence why they saw the opportunity to go with a more "left field" pick like Min Min.

 

[TwiceEXE]

If Waluigi turned out to be REALLY good or top-tier good, I doubt the competitve scene would ignore him.

Sakurai is going to give him Bayo Smash 4 ladder combos to dunk on the nerds.

 

[ZelDan]

Sakurai is going to give him Bayo Smash 4 ladder combos to dunk on the nerds.

"What's that? Smash players are complaining that I'm way too powerful and OP and that no character has a good match up against me?"

"TOO BAD, WALUIGI TIME!"

 

[Icedragonadam]

So five more days until the supposed direct. And no characters have been leaked yet.

 

[Perkilator]

So five more days until the supposed direct. And no characters have been leaked yet.

And with everything lining up for it, like the “NEW” tab being removed from the Smash Ultimate website?

 

[SpectreJordan]

I was thinking. If we were to get a stage pass with five stages, what stages would you want/expect?

Mine would be:

1. Bowser’s Castle

I feel this a stage that has been requested for a long time, but has never truly happened outside of some moving stages that have Bowser’s Castle section. Smash has so many great Songs that would for a stage like this that don’t fit in the other primarily grassy/level one themed Mario stages.

2. PAC Maze

Just bring it back already. I get that the gimmick would have to be re-worked, but this locale is just too iconic. It just feels so weird that PAC-Man is in without this stage. PAC-Land very well might be the ugliest and worst stage in the game, but he has some bangers that would go so well with a PAC-Maze stage.

3. Donkey Kong Tropical Freeze stage

So I love all of the Rareware love Ultimate brought to the Smash series including the return of the DKC stages from days past, but we lost both of the more modern DK stages. They were not the greatest of stages, but they did give us some representation for the newer Kong games. So maybe give us a stage themed to a Tropical Freeze locale?

4. Rainbow Road

I’d like this stage to come back as well. Rainbow Road is just so iconic and give us some interesting in terms of aesthetics.

5. Tetris stage

Tetris is the biggest video game of all time and has a lot of history with Nintendo. We have some Tetris songs that slap, but a stage would be cool as well. Could be a stage that would force you to KO opponents upward only as the sides would be walled whilst meanwhile navigating a slow game of Tetris. Meanwhile in the background several other Tetris games would be occurring. This would give off a Tetris 99 vibe.

Pie in the Sky pick:

Gruntilda’s Tower

Not going to lie; I was disappointed with Spiral Mountain as the locale for Banjo even if it was the obvious pick. I just think the top of Grunty’s Tower would be more visually interesting than another grass level. Also it could be a boss type stage kinda like some of the Smash 4 stages with Grunty fighting the players whilst she spews off insulting rhymes that are custom to the characters in the match. Could be very interesting for Time matches as KOing Grunty would give the player a point. Also they really missed the boat by not giving us the Final Boss theme, easily the best song from Banjo-Kazooie.

Bowser’s Castle - Everyone else is saying it but I gotta agree. It’s crazy that the biggest game villain ever doesn’t have his own stage. My only request music wise is the Bowser theme from 3D World; that song is so good.

Crash (Call of Duty) - I don’t want a playable COD character, but I would like to see it in Smash in some form. Taking one of the most popular multiplayer maps from the Modern Warfare series would be perfect. You could even have Killstreaks as stage hazards.

Minecraft - I’d prefer Steve as a playable character but if that can’t happen then this is the next best thing. The stage would have two sections. One would be set during the day with Villagers & various animals in the background. Then either the map would cycle into night or into a cave where Minecraft’s iconic monsters would show up.

Snowdin (Undertale) - I just want more Undertale music in Smash tbh. I’d like Frisk as a character but that’s probably not happening. I feel Snowdin would be a pretty cozy stage aesthetically. Various UT characters would cameo.

Raccoon City (Resident Evil) - If we cant get a RE character then a stage would be nice. I don’t know if zombies are Smash appropriate, but Jill, Leon, Claire, Mr X, Nemesis, Hunters & Lickers could show up.

There are only 5 more DLC fighters! After they have been released, the continuous Smash development from Smash for 3DS/Wii U will finally come to an end. The team is already underway developing the remaining characters, and will continue doing their best working from home. pic.twitter.com/Q9wkqEKeIo

— Robert Sephazon (@Sephazon) July 15, 2020

Looks like these are the last batch after all, in hindsight, they've been working on Smash nonstop for nearly a decade, right?

It’s a bit disappointing since I still want a bunch of characters & I doubt these last 5 spots will all be characters I want. But I can’t complain too much, Ultimate is in my top 10 favorite games ever. Plus I got Banjo, Snake, Simon & K Rool as well as the unexpected surprises of Joker & Terry. I will miss speculating on who’s next though.

 

[Garteam]

From my readthrough, Sakurai's statements regarding Min Min come off less as "Min Min is more unique relative to the rest of the ARMS roster" and more "Min Min is more unique relative to the rest of Smash's roster". Basically all mentions of uniqueness are framed around the ARMS system and Min Min not having any traditional special moves, not her ability to kick. Plus, logically, if Sakurai really wanted to choose the most unique ARMS character, it's strange he wouldn't go for someone with a more outlandish special ability like Helix or Lola Pop instead of the relatively subdued Min MIn.

 

[DuskFleur]

On the subject of the dlc characters so far, I was rewatching NYC Nintendo Store reaction videos and the one for Byleth made me sad.

When Byleth was confirmed, I was legit “jumping out of my seat and yelling” hyped, because of how much I love Three Houses. And I was even more excited when the House Leaders’ Relic weapons came crashing down in the trailer, confirming my theory that Byleth would multi-wield to reflect the gameplay changes in 3H.

I get why most Smash fans were disappointed, nay, infuriated by Byleth, especially after the third party characters that came before them raised the hype bar so high, but I feel so agitated whenever I see someone take the piss on Byleth just because “lol Fire Emblem sucks” and not giving them a chance. Poor Byleth is the fandom’s whipping boy/girl/yes right now, and that quite frankly makes me sad.

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

On the subject of the dlc characters so far, I was rewatching NYC Nintendo Store reaction videos and the one for Byleth made me sad.

When Byleth was confirmed, I was legit “jumping out of my seat and yelling” hyped, because of how much I love Three Houses. And I was even more excited when the House Leaders’ Relic weapons came crashing down in the trailer, confirming my theory that Byleth would multi-wield to reflect the gameplay changes in 3H.

I get why most Smash fans were disappointed, nay, infuriated by Byleth, especially after the third party characters that came before them raised the hype bar so high, but I feel so agitated whenever I see someone take the piss on Byleth just because “lol Fire Emblem sucks” and not giving them a chance. Poor Byleth is the fandom’s whipping boy/girl/yes right now, and that quite frankly makes me sad.

Welcome to Fire Emblem in Smash. The same thing happened to Corrin in Sm4sh, so what happened to Byleth certainly isn't new.