Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[smashkirby]

* Yu Ayasaki

Wow, I'm amazed (and in a strange way, genuinely pleased) to see anyone still remembers Yu. After that whole RTC with her as the focus, she kind of took SmashBoards by storm... in a minor way.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

And it kills. Like a true pro Hero player.

Oh no it's usually when they've just respawned, so they dodge it due to the I frames

You're playing Hero correctly then.

nah playing Hero correctly is randomly throwing out Whack and Thwack whenever you see it the menu and it working out for you. A friend of mine doesn't want to play my Hero anymore after I deleted all 3 of his stocks with Whack and Thwack in a single match

 

[Will]

Oh no it's usually when they've just respawned, so they dodge it due to the I frames

And it still kills. Just you, but all the same.

nah playing Hero correctly is randomly throwing out Whack and Thwack whenever you see it the menu and it working out for you.

RNG is half the fun with Hero.

 

[Invisible Shiny Bulbasaur]

* A character who appeals to non-Nintendo fans:
2B, Dante, Lara Croft, Master Chief, Doomslayer
* A character who comes from a massive franchise:
Steve and Alex, also Lara Croft, also Master Chief
* A character for hardcore Smash fans:
Geno, Crash, pretty much any indie character
* A character who could be considered nostalgic and/or niche:
Ryu Hayabusa, Lloyd Irving, pretty much any character from Arc System Works or Falcom


Actually these categories are broad enough that most of the characters I can think of would meet the criteria for more than one, so there are a ton of different combinations I could list.

 

[ZenythSmash]

Chief is not nearly interesting enough to be a character in Smash. His value is vastly overstated by the few weirdos who read Halo books.

Nice try, Sakurai doesn't post on Smashboards!

 

[Gentlepanda]

September 25th for the Joker Amiibo in Japan(October 2nd in US).


I think most people were predicting the next fighter to drop in September, so this lines up with the prior reveal/release schedules of releasing the character in the same month as an Amiibo drop/restock.

early september is basically 2 months from min min / june 29th-30th so the schedule adds up

a patch always has to come out to make the amiibos compatible, though it can seem to release prior to fighters sometimes

 

[andree123]

Agreed, though I could see them doing something similar with Duck Hunts side B. And that would kind of be it.

So what are people hoping for with this upcoming Direct? Personally, the Mario collection and MAYBE something Smash, if we are lucky.

To me..

Ports/remakes:
Wind Waker HD
Pikmin 3 Deluxe
Golden Sun 1 & 2 remakes

New:
New Metroid 2D game
Fire Emblem Warriors 2
New Kirby spin off (Kirby's Block Ball 2 anyone?)
New Warioware (its time for another one now!)
Mario & Sonic Winter Olympics 2022 (DLC or expansion, I don't care)

* A character who appeals to non-Nintendo fans
* A character who comes from a massive franchise (doesn't have to be Japanese, but it would probably help)
* A character for hardcore Smash fans
* A character who could be considered nostalgic and/or niche

Crash Bandicoot
Agumon
Geno
Peashooter

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Nice try, Sakurai doesn't post on Smashboards!

Why did you reply to a post 4 days after the fact

 

[Iko MattOrr]

So what are people hoping for with this upcoming Direct? Personally, the Mario collection and MAYBE something Smash, if we are lucky.

-Mario Sunshine remake/port (really, I'm fine with just a port)
-Something F-Zero (not happening but my hope never dies)
-Kirby's next main game or a spin-off as long as it's good (or a remake of Kirby 64 with updated graphics and improved gameplay)
-Smash news
-Next big Sonic game news (to see if they finally managed to make a good game or it's Forces once again)
-Maybe a new Rhythm Heaven?
-Silksong news

That's what I hope for. Not just for this rumored direct specifically, for any direct or random shadowdropped announcement in the future; the sooner the better.
I'm likely not getting any of those things soon, and some I probably will never get them at all (such as F-Zero).

 

[GoodGrief741]

Why did you reply to a post 4 days after the fact

**** the Halo book guy was only four days ago? Freaking quarantine, I thought that happened weeks ago.

 

[Evil Trapezium]

Okay, new discussion idea: how about we try to predict the rest of the pass based on this setup? Like you said, Min Min basically fills Byleth's role (appealing to modern Nintendo/Switch fans), so that would leave:

* A character who appeals to non-Nintendo fans
* A character who comes from a massive franchise (doesn't have to be Japanese, but it would probably help)
* A character for hardcore Smash fans
* A character who could be considered nostalgic and/or niche

Obviously, there's no way of knowing if this pattern will keep up, but it would be fun to try and figure out. Although I don't think we have anything to base the final character on, so that may be an issue.

Non-Nintendo fans: Doom Guy
Massive Franchise: Sora
Hardcore Smash fans: Geno
Nostalgic/Niche: SGT. CORTEZ! TIME TO SPLIT!

 

[Calane]

I don't believe I am.

I think if you hand a G&W game to anyone not in the Smash fandom, they'll play it for two minutes and go "Okay. Can I stop now?"

And if you hand it to anyone in the Smash fandom, they'll play it for two minutes and go "Haha! So classic! ...I'm gonna stop playing now though."

And if you think there's a majority out there that thinks Ice Climbers, Gyromite or Stack-Up is good either, you're in for a rude awakening.

Yo, hold up! I actually sort of like that game... I mean, I played it without having a R.O.B. accessory, so I'm not sure how well that actually worked.

Doing everything on your own can actually be pretty fun, though. I also like the music for the main game a lot, so that helps too.

Is Gyromite a great game? Not really. Can it be simple fun? I'd say so.

 

[Animegamingnerd]

Agreed, though I could see them doing something similar with Duck Hunts side B. And that would kind of be it.

So what are people hoping for with this upcoming Direct? Personally, the Mario collection and MAYBE something Smash, if we are lucky.

I would like to see a port on the scale of something like The Witcher 3, a third party port that many thought was possible. Hell throughout the Switch era, during Nintendo's E3 directs they usually had a major third party port revealed during the presentation 2017 was Rocket League, 2018 was Fortnite and 2019 was The Witcher 3, so I am excited to see what kind of big third party ports were planned to be revealed at E3.

 

[YoshiandToad]

I don't believe I am.

I think if you hand a G&W game to anyone not in the Smash fandom, they'll play it for two minutes and go "Okay. Can I stop now?"

And if you hand it to anyone in the Smash fandom, they'll play it for two minutes and go "Haha! So classic! ...I'm gonna stop playing now though."

And if you think there's a majority out there that thinks Ice Climbers, Gyromite or Stack-Up is good either, you're in for a rude awakening.

I'd probably give Duck Hunt a play for a long time if I had the opportunity. It's definitely fun. Hell, I played Balloon Fight not too long ago for an hour or two on my 3DS and had fun...

...Ice Climber though? Hoo boy. Now that is a game so awfully designed I want the time back I wasted on it years ago. Yes, it's that bad. Darth isn't kidding with that one.

There's a reason nobody has given it a spiritual sequel.

 

[DarthEnderX]

I played a lot of Duck Hunt, but that's because it was one of only 3 games I had when I first got my NES(along with SMB and Zelda).

My Dad played Duck Hunt more than me. But he was also a hunting/fishing guy.

 

[Iko MattOrr]

Though, I used to like Ice Climbers. The last time that I played it was many years ago, I can't even remember when, but I remember that when I played as a kid I had fun with it.

I don't deny that it has flaws, and I remember it having bad physics/collisions too (not sure but I have this memory of it), but still, as a kid I liked it for some reason.

Not my favorite NES game though, just one of the many that I did enjoy.

(it's probably connected to why I don't have any problem with Jungle Zone Act 2 in the Master System version of Sonic 1, while most people seem to hate it).

 

[DMTN]

I've played a lot of Ice Climber, but that game was already dated when it came out. Popo's Target Test in Melee is a better Ice Climber experience than the actual game.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

So what does everyone think? Will DLC character number 7 be Nintendo or 3rd party? Or for certain characters (like, you know... Rabbid Peach) both.

 

[MarioDDR755]

Ice Climber had surprisingly poor jumping physics especially compared to its contemporary, Super Mario Bros., but it was still 1985 so I'd say it was still passably good. The early Famicom games were quite rough compared to the later ones.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

I adore how everyone can agree Ice Climber is a ****ing garbage ass game that would have been forgotten had it not been for Smash but how despite this, everyone was happy to see them back

 

[Shroob]

So what does everyone think? Will DLC character number 7 be Nintendo or 3rd party? Or for certain characters (like, you know... Rabbid Peach) both.

If this was meant to be the E3 character, it's still my belief that they were going to start with Min Min's reveal, and end with a 3rd party drop.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

I adore how everyone can agree Ice Climber is a ****ing garbage ass game that would have been forgotten had it not been for Smash but how despite this, everyone was happy to see them back

Smash Bros has a way of getting people attached to characters.
And the hype of seeing someone control two sub-par characters at once to turn them into one amazing character is something hard to beat.

 

[Iko MattOrr]

Ice Climber had surprisingly poor jumping physics especially compared to its contemporary, Super Mario Bros., but it was still 1985 so I'd say it was still passably good. The early Famicom games were quite rough compared to the later ones.

Indeed, I think that most of the issues of Ice Climbers are related to the bad jump physics and bad collisions, otherwise it would be a decent old-school arcade game like of Donkey Kong or Mario Bros. Well the out of screen death can be annoying sometimes, but it's part of the challenge.

 

[AceAttorney9000]

Okay, new discussion idea: how about we try to predict the rest of the pass based on this setup? Like you said, Min Min basically fills Byleth's role (appealing to modern Nintendo/Switch fans), so that would leave:

* A character who appeals to non-Nintendo fans
* A character who comes from a massive franchise (doesn't have to be Japanese, but it would probably help)
* A character for hardcore Smash fans
* A character who could be considered nostalgic and/or niche

Obviously, there's no way of knowing if this pattern will keep up, but it would be fun to try and figure out. Although I don't think we have anything to base the final character on, so that may be an issue.

• Appeals to non-Nintendo fans - Ratchet & Clank
• Comes from a massive franchise - Dr. Eggman
• For hardcore Smash fans - Geno
• Could be considered nostalgic and/or niche - Morrigan Aensland

And just for kicks, how about a character who fills the role of Piranha Plant, a non-human character that no one expects: Vic Viper

- Carl Johnson
- Leif
- Sandbag
- Pepsiman

Made it as cursed as possible. Or blessed, depending on how you see it.

Joke's on you. Leif would be an awesome character.

 

[Blade of Evil's Bane]

I think that with FP1 they try to cater different audiences..

Joker - playstation audience (mainline Personas are PS exclusive so far) or people who don't necessarily have to like nintendo consoles
Hero - Dragon Quest is one of the 5 most selling japanese IPs worldwide, so he caters for "everyone audience" .
Banjo-Kazooie: Hardcore smash audience (us!) and maybe some nostalgic N64 fans.
Terry: I know that he still appears nowdays but Fatal Fury/KOF got their huge popularity on early/mid 90's, so I think he caters for the "old/lapsed/nostalgic" audience (gamers +25)
Byleth: Modern nintendo gamers who likes Switch titles.

FP1 has give them very good results, so I'm curious of the direction for FP2, Min Min is similar to Byleth, she caters modern Nintendo audience as being from an early life Switch title.

This is a very interesting way to look at things honestly. I'm pretty sure this is part of Nintendo's strategy for a semi-obvious reason: to make the pass as a whole (as a product) appealing to a very broad range of consumers (new, previously unsolicited or less solicited consumers as well as the current fanbase). Basically, instead of trying to please everyone with every single character i guess they're trying to please/cater to as much people as possible with the pass as a whole. In the context of a 'package deal' format like the fighter passes, it makes sense since, as long as there's at least 1 character that appeals to you in the pass, you're more likely to buy the whole thing or you'll consider buying it.

I think it's pretty reasonable to assume that Nintendo put some thoughts into this and that it had some degree of influence on their overall strategy. One could argue that it isn't part of any strategy and that Nintendo/Sakurai are just yoloing this whole thing or parts of it, taking good marketing decisions by accident along the way... but yeah, i doubt it.

Also, sure, this thing about catering to different fanbases can't be the only factor in the decision process (obviously there's some cross-promoting with other Nintendo titles going on as well, relations with other developers are probably considered, budget, etc.) but do i personally think it's an important factor to consider when speculating? ...

whatever pick: Dixie Kong

Spoiler

 

[SpectreJordan]

Okay, new discussion idea: how about we try to predict the rest of the pass based on this setup? Like you said, Min Min basically fills Byleth's role (appealing to modern Nintendo/Switch fans), so that would leave:

* A character who appeals to non-Nintendo fans
* A character who comes from a massive franchise (doesn't have to be Japanese, but it would probably help)
* A character for hardcore Smash fans
* A character who could be considered nostalgic and/or niche

Obviously, there's no way of knowing if this pattern will keep up, but it would be fun to try and figure out. Although I don't think we have anything to base the final character on, so that may be an issue.

- Master Chief (Appeals to Xbox fans & FPS fans)

- Dante (Not on the same level as DQ, but not much is anymore. Would appeal to both the West & East. Riding off the hype train of a new game like DQXI)

- Rex (One of the most requested Nintendo characters now. Also appeals to Sakurai as a wanted character & Nintendo as a series they want to push)

- Ryu Hayabusa (Has dual nostalgia from the NES era & the OG Xbox era)

Crash & Steve are also possibilities for the “massive franchise” option, but I’d feel it’d probably be from a Japanese series.

The last spot would go to Crash as a personal want or Cinderace as a more realistic option.

just because it’s fun, here’s another 4 under those conditions. These could be those potential last 4 characters after FP2.

- Steve (Minecraft DOES have a presence on Nintendo systems. But there’s still tens of millions of people who played it on PC/Xbox/PS that could be attracted by MC in Smash)

- Jill Valentine (Resident Evil is the only Japanese series bigger than DQ that doesn’t have a playable character in Smash. RE is also experiencing a popularity/quality renaissance rn which would make more people excited)

- Bandana Waddle Dee (I don’t personally want him but there’s no denying he’s the most requested Nintendo character at this point. He’d be a big hit with the Smash community & really easy for Nintendo to get as an added bonus)

- Bill Rizer (Contra is a classic NES series with some notable SNES presence too, but not much has been done with the series since then. He’s about as Retro as you can get now)

 

[Calamitas]

No one's brought this up here yet? No one's brought this up here yet. Alright.

There was a problem fetching the tweet

 

[skylanders fan]

Wouldn’t it be great to get a direct announcement today for tomorrow man a guy could dream.... (have no insider info just hopeful)

 

[Faso115]

Next nintendo direct it's all Mario reveals.

And for smash: Wamario, a lanky version of Mario.

 

[Deleted member]

Next nintendo direct it's all Mario reveals.

And for smash: Wamario, a lanky version of Mario.

With the 35th anniversary for the middle aged plumber, it wouldn't be too surprising if we did get some kind of Mini Direct celebrating it.

 

[SKX31]

I adore how everyone can agree Ice Climber is a ****ing garbage ass game that would have been forgotten had it not been for Smash but how despite this, everyone was happy to see them back

Not just what GuyBrush said - they're also a very interesting "risk-reward" character. When an Icies is on the field they'll have to ensure the partner's not separated or worse KOed. The potential reward though - especially if one is willing to invest the time?

Massive.

The duo gained a lot of fans probably because of that concept.

Okay, new discussion idea: how about we try to predict the rest of the pass based on this setup? Like you said, Min Min basically fills Byleth's role (appealing to modern Nintendo/Switch fans), so that would leave:

* A character who appeals to non-Nintendo fans
* A character who comes from a massive franchise (doesn't have to be Japanese, but it would probably help)
* A character for hardcore Smash fans
* A character who could be considered nostalgic and/or niche

Obviously, there's no way of knowing if this pattern will keep up, but it would be fun to try and figure out. Although I don't think we have anything to base the final character on, so that may be an issue.

Okay, so:

* Gordon Freeman as someone who appeals to non-Nintendo fans.
* I'm going to suggest a massive Korean franchise: Dungeon Fighter Online. About as big as DQ / Street Fighter FTR.
* For the hardcore Smash fanbase, KOS-MOS or someone like Crash.
* Reimu and / or Ryu Hayabusa for the nostalgic / niche choices.

 

[Deleted member]

No one's brought this up here yet? No one's brought this up here yet. Alright.

There was a problem fetching the tweet

There's barely any proof this account actually belongs to Nintendo, and the proof there is rather flimsy, so it probably doesn't mean anything.

 

[SpectreJordan]

Not just what GuyBrush said - they're also a very interesting "risk-reward" character. When an Icies is on the field they'll have to ensure the partner's not separated or worse KOed. The potential reward though - especially if one is willing to invest the time?

Massive.

View attachment 278528

The duo gained a lot of fans probably because of that concept.



Okay, so:

* Gordon Freeman as someone who appeals to non-Nintendo fans.
* I'm going to suggest a massive Korean franchise: Dungeon Fighter Online. About as big as DQ / Street Fighter FTR.
* For the hardcore Smash fanbase, KOS-MOS or someone like Crash.
* Reimu and / or Ryu Hayabusa for the nostalgic / niche choices.

I wouldn’t say KOS-MOS is a Smash fandom pick. She’s been talked about a decent amount but the amount of people who actually want her isn’t that high. She definitely wouldn’t have a Ridley/K Rool/Banjo size reaction.

 

[Hydreigonfan01]

Okay, new discussion idea: how about we try to predict the rest of the pass based on this setup? Like you said, Min Min basically fills Byleth's role (appealing to modern Nintendo/Switch fans), so that would leave:

* A character who appeals to non-Nintendo fans
* A character who comes from a massive franchise (doesn't have to be Japanese, but it would probably help)
* A character for hardcore Smash fans
* A character who could be considered nostalgic and/or niche

Obviously, there's no way of knowing if this pattern will keep up, but it would be fun to try and figure out. Although I don't think we have anything to base the final character on, so that may be an issue.

Got a few ideas

* A character who appeals to non-Nintendo fans = 2B

* A character who comes from a massive fanbase = Dante (22 million copies isn't massive but it's decently large)

* A character for hardcore Smash fans = Geno

* A character who could be considered nostalgic/niche = Reimu

 

[3BitSaurus]

I think we will end up seeing more "modern" characters (as in popular post-2000's) in this pass. People often forget but back in an interview in 2016 Sakurai stated that "Gamers from the [Mega-Man] generation probably already have all the characters they could want." So it's pretty clear that Sakurai was satisfied with characters from that time period. However despite this, in Ultimate we still ended up with a lot of the 80's-90's stars with Ridley, Terry, K. Rool, Banjo, Simon, and Richter all primarily being for an "older" audience. Ridley and Terry may be pushing it a little though, as they still get games to introduce newer audiences but I'm still sure that Metroid/SNK's audience is mostly older players anyways. In comparison Isabelle, Inkling, Incineroar, Joker, Byleth, and Min-Min are likely for a "newer" generation. Hero, Pirahna Plant, and Daisy are pretty much for every generation of gamers; Ken could also fit here, or with the "older" generation.

At this point outside of characters like Ryu Hayabusa and Geno; we're running out of characters that appeal mostly to "older" generations. Ridley, K. Rool, and Banjo were pretty much the last 3 big requests from the 90's era (although again, I realize Ridley probably has tons of fans from after that too). That combined with Sakurai's statements, makes me think that this pass will likely be 2000's/2010's+ dominated. That's not to say the characters themselves can't be from the 80's/90's just that there are probably a lot of "newer" fans of the characters; so characters like Crash could appeal to both "older" and "newer" generations.

Interview in question: https://sourcegaming.info/2016/02/23/nintendo-dream-interview-with-sakurai-part-2/

I think if we get 2000s/2010s characters, it will probably be about two. And the former is pretty much relegated to third parties, unless Nintendo somehow remembers they had franchises other than Pikmin and Animal Crossing back then.

I do find it weird that people think there hasn't been a focus on newer games, though. Of the 19 newcomers introduced in Smash 4, 6 were from the 2000s and 6 were from the 2010s. For reference, 6 were from the 80s and only 1 from the 90s. Similarly, 3 out of the 7 DLC characters thus far are from the 2010s (4 if you count DQXI).

If you add the Ultimate and 4 newcomers together, you'd get 7 from the 2000s (), 12 from the 2010s ().

Compared to that, we got 10 picks from the 80s () and 5 from the 90s ()

So if anything, there's already a pretty good balance between newcomers in the past two games. There seems to be no real need to make a whole season pass just for people who are only into newer games.

...It's also kinda telling that Little Mac is the only 80s character in the past two games coming from a then-unrepresented Nintendo franchise, as well as K. Rool being the only first party 90s character.

 

[ZenythSmash]

That's not a hot take that's fact. Alph was bullied by Sakurai, it was literally free real estate.

have my hot take: Echo Alph is a pointless
like, what's the point of lumping Alph with inferior and non-rewarding differences to Olimar? Adopting Olimar's old garbage recovery from Brawl? Rock Pikmin being Purple Pikmin that has awful distance and bigger damage, while you can rack up better and faster damage with Purple Pikmin?

If their was a competition to who should get decloned/un-costumed, Alph would easily lose to something like Chapter 6 Dark Pit.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

have my hot take: Echo Alph is a pointless
like, what's the point of lumping Alph with inferior and non-rewarding differences to Olimar? Adopting Olimar's old garbage recovery from Brawl? Rock Pikmin being Purple Pikmin that has awful distance and bigger damage, while you can rack up better and faster damage with Purple Pikmin?

If their was a competition to who should get decloned/un-costumed, Alph would easily lose to somethning like Chapter 6 Dark Pit.

I mean, Daisy has literally no differences so Alph not being different from Olimar wouldn't matter

 

[XorahnGaia]

have my hot take: Echo Alph is a pointless
like, what's the point of lumping Alph with inferior and non-rewarding differences to Olimar? Adopting Olimar's old garbage recovery from Brawl? Rock Pikmin being Purple Pikmin that has awful distance and bigger damage, while you can rack up better and faster damage with Purple Pikmin?

If their was a competition to who should get decloned/un-costumed, Alph would easily lose to somethning like Chapter 6 Dark Pit.

I mean, you're not wrong, but we already have "pointless" echoes like Daisy and Richter, so I can see where the frustation of Alph fans comes from.

 

[Sabrewulf238]

I adore how everyone can agree Ice Climber is a ****ing garbage ass game that would have been forgotten had it not been for Smash but how despite this, everyone was happy to see them back

I wasn't born when the NES was originally out....but Ice Climbers is still nostalgic to me as one of those games that were always included in those 1000* games, hook them up to your tv bootleg devices.

Along with Excitebikers.

* It probably wasn't a 1000 but you get what I mean

 

[Opossum]

I like Ice Climber but it's definitely not a game for everyone.


Also I'm really shaking my head at all the people using Crash as the "pick for non-Nintendo fans" when Crash has sold incredibly well on the Switch. It's not the 90s and early 00s anymore, lmao.