Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[WeirdChillFever]

On one hand I’m like “glad that these leakers are btfo“ and the attention seekers are weeded out and on the other hand it’s only Tuesday y’all

 

[Staarih]

So no direct next week then?

Looks like it. I mean, we didn't get an announcement today even though HotGirl told us we'd get something, like we did all those previous dates she mentioned... oh, wait. And it's not like there's the rest of the week, or you know, just next week in general for Nintendo to still deliver news. Pack it up guys, this was it.

 

[Dr. Jojo Phantasma]

There is still Friday as the rumored July 20th direct lands on a Monday. Let's not pull the plug just yet.

 

[Cosmic77]

It's kinda ironic your post is about how gatekeeping on not liking a character or their game is bad, when you gatekeep in this very post about how immensely successful games shouldn't get in because of moveset potential, an argument completely irrelevant when we have a piranha plant with an almost fully unique moveset. Maybe it's me, but I find "I do not like this character" less gatekeep-y than arbitrarily deciding what does or doesn't have moveset potential

I never made a blanket statement saying all characters from popular games don't have moveset potential. No idea where you read that.

Fact is, dismissing a character based on how many copies their game sold or whether or not their game was liked is a really crappy way to speculate. Fates could've bombed and been the most controversial game in the franchise, but that wouldn't take away from Corrin and his ability to transform into a dragon. Same thing applies to other games where I see the "shouldn't get in because their game sucks" argument used. Doesn't matter if you loved XC2 or not. Rex and the driver mechanic has a lot of potential either way. Paper Mario? Sure, I can admit that I don't like the newer games as much as the older ones, but does that mean I don't see any potential in the Paper Mario who exists in SS, CS, and OK? Not at all.

There's a lot of great characters who probably don't get the recognition they deserve, and that's largely because people are focusing too hard on the game and not the character.

Also, when did I ever say PP never had moveset potential? I'm one of the few people in this thread who defends its inclusion because there's so very few characters capable of doing half the stuff it does.

 

[Perkilator]

Any character that NEVER had a good game, doesn't deserve to be in Smash.

Alright then, let’s list the series in the roster that have had at least one genuinely less-than-favorably received game.
(Sticker Star)
(Barrel Blast)
(Tri Force Heroes)
(Other M)
(Yoshi’s New Island)
(Rainbow Curse)
(Star Fox Zero)
(Pokémon Dash) (You know how hard it was to ignore SwSh?)
(Ice Climber)
(Fire Emblem Fates)
(Metal Gear Survive)
(Sonic 06)
(Hey! Pikmin)
(Amiibo Festival)
(Mega Man 3)
(PAC-MAN for the Atari, which many consider one of the worst games of all time)
(vanilla Street Fighter V)
(Dirge of Cerberus: Final Fantasy VII)
(Castlevania: Lords of Shadow)
(Banjo-Kazooie: Nuts & Bolts)
(King of Fighter’s XII)

So yeah, nearly every single series in the roster might as well get Thanos’d because they have bad games.

 

[Hadokeyblade]

Alright then, let’s list the series in the roster that have had at least one genuinely less-than-favorably received game.
(Sticker Star)
(Barrel Blast)
(Tri Force Heroes)
(Other M)
(Yoshi’s New Island)
(Rainbow Curse)
(Star Fox Zero)
(Pokémon Dash) (You know how hard it was to ignore SwSh?)
(Ice Climber)
(Fire Emblem Fates)
(The Phantom Pain)
(Secret Rings)
(Hey! Pikmin)
(Amiibo Festival)
(Mega Man 3)
(PAC-MAN for the Atari, which many consider one of the worst games of all time)
(vanilla Street Fighter V)
(Dirge of Cerberus: Final Fantasy VII)
(Castlevania: Lords of Shadow)
(Banjo-Kazooie: Nuts & Bolts)
(King of Fighter’s XII)

So yeah, nearly every single series in the roster might as well get Thanos’d because they have bad games.

I'm more surprised that you didn't pick Sonic 06, that's a lower hanging fruit than sword and shield.

Also Joker be out there with not a single bad game in his series.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Alright then, let’s list the series in the roster that have had at least one genuinely less-than-favorably received game.
(Sticker Star)
(Barrel Blast)
(Tri Force Heroes)
(Other M)
(Yoshi’s New Island)
(Rainbow Curse)
(Star Fox Zero)
(Pokémon Dash) (You know how hard it was to ignore SwSh?)
(Ice Climber)
(Fire Emblem Fates)
(The Phantom Pain)
(Secret Rings)
(Hey! Pikmin)
(Amiibo Festival)
(Mega Man 3)
(PAC-MAN for the Atari, which many consider one of the worst games of all time)
(vanilla Street Fighter V)
(Dirge of Cerberus: Final Fantasy VII)
(Castlevania: Lords of Shadow)
(Banjo-Kazooie: Nuts & Bolts)
(King of Fighter’s XII)

So yeah, nearly every single series in the roster might as well get Thanos’d because they have bad games.

Mega Man 3? That’s a funny way of spelling Mega Man X6 (I’d say X7 but that was just boring. X6 DROVE ME UP A WALL)

and cut some slack, Ice Climber is their ONLY game

 

[Ramen Tengoku]

(Mega Man 3)

EXCUSE ME?

 

[Garteam]

(Mega Man 3)

Mega Man 3 is generally agreed upon to be one of, if not the best, game in the entire franchise. There's a few people who think its overrated, but they're few and far between. If anything, 2 is the classic Mega Man game that was once universally praised but now has people questioning if it was ever that good to begin with.

That being said, Mega Man still has some stinkers. Mega Man X6 is divisive at best and X7 is generally agreed upon to be downright bad.

 

[CapitaineCrash]

Alright then, let’s list the series in the roster that have had at least one genuinely less-than-favorably received game.
(Sticker Star)
(Barrel Blast)
(Tri Force Heroes)
(Other M)
(Yoshi’s New Island)
(Rainbow Curse)
(Star Fox Zero)
(Pokémon Dash) (You know how hard it was to ignore SwSh?)
(Ice Climber)
(Fire Emblem Fates)
(The Phantom Pain)
(Secret Rings)
(Hey! Pikmin)
(Amiibo Festival)
(Mega Man 3)
(PAC-MAN for the Atari, which many consider one of the worst games of all time)
(vanilla Street Fighter V)
(Dirge of Cerberus: Final Fantasy VII)
(Castlevania: Lords of Shadow)
(Banjo-Kazooie: Nuts & Bolts)
(King of Fighter’s XII)

So yeah, nearly every single series in the roster might as well get Thanos’d because they have bad games.

He said that NEVER had a good game, not that they have one bad game.

 

[M@R!3]

Mega Man 3? That’s a funny way of spelling Mega Man X6 (I’d say X7 but that was just boring. X6 DROVE ME UP A WALL)

and cut some slack, Ice Climber is their ONLY game

If it weren't for the Nightmare System X6 would be a lot better. Never played X7, but it looks like it would need a complete overhaul.

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

Alright then, let’s list the series in the roster that have had at least one genuinely less-than-favorably received game.

(Tri Force Heroes)
(The Phantom Pain)
(Secret Rings)
(Mega Man 3)
(vanilla Street Fighter V)
(Banjo-Kazooie: Nuts & Bolts)

So yeah, nearly every single series in the roster might as well get Thanos’d because they have bad games.

Not bad, but there are worst examples for most of these:

(CD-I Zelda games, though that's admittedly cheating)
(Snake's Revenge)
(06 or Boom)
(Mega Man DOS, Mega Man 4/5)
(Street Fighter 1)
(Banjo Pilot)

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Personally also I’d say Final Fantasy II is worse than Dirge of Cerberus (which isn’t even a “traditional” FF game). Great setting, story, music, characters, all RUINED by an utterly broken battle system and the fact EVERY dungeon has false treasure room fake outs that trap you in battle after battle just to get out

fr. Bows NEVER work, and you can spam insta kill spells to even kill BOSSES. no strategy at all

 

[MooMew64]

The Direct rumors were for next week. I'd say it's a bit early to start throwing in the towel, especially when Nintendo pretty much never announces Directs unless it's one/two days before hand.

...Also, HotGirlVideos69 being a bandwagoner proven wrong really shouldn't surprise people, and I really wouldn't even factor them in to a Direct happening next week.

 

[Nightguything]

I don’t understand what the deal is with expecting something today. I was always under the assumption that the rumored direct is strictly the 20th.

 

[chocolatejr9]

Personally also I’d say Final Fantasy II is worse than Dirge of Cerberus (which isn’t even a “traditional” FF game). Great setting, story, music, characters, all RUINED by an utterly broken battle system and the fact EVERY dungeon has false treasure room fake outs that trap you in battle after battle just to get out

fr. Bows NEVER work, and you can spam insta kill spells to even kill BOSSES. no strategy at all

Honestly, there's a part of me that hopes FF2 is at least being considered for the FF7R treatment (I think one of the creators expressed interest in remaking FF5 or 6, don't remember which). IMO, the one thing more deserving of a remake than a good game is a bad game with good ideas.

Though I'm probably in the minority on that...

 

[zeldasmash]

Personally also I’d say Final Fantasy II is worse than Dirge of Cerberus (which isn’t even a “traditional” FF game). Great setting, story, music, characters, all RUINED by an utterly broken battle system and the fact EVERY dungeon has false treasure room fake outs that trap you in battle after battle just to get out

fr. Bows NEVER work, and you can spam insta kill spells to even kill BOSSES. no strategy at all

Final Fantasy II is actually important to the series in terms of innovations to it. Unlike Dirge of Cerberus where, unless they validate it's existence in Remake later on, has very little to do with FF7 and the series as a whole that people will forgive you if you never heard of it (though that pretty much goes for most of the FF7 Extended Universe unless you are Crisis Core or Advent Children).

FF2 tried innovations but couldn't follow through with it's mechanics due to system limitations. Dirge of Cerberus is among the most laughable entries in the series and is considered among the dumbest things in Final Fantasy (it's not All The Bravest bad, but it's really bad).

Honestly, there's a part of me that hopes FF2 is at least being considered for the FF7R treatment (I think one of the creators expressed interest in remaking FF5 or 6, don't remember which). IMO, the one thing more deserving of a remake than a good game is a bad game with good ideas.

Though I'm probably in the minority on that...

I think remaking V would be more beneficial. VI is already considered one of the best entries, if not the best entry, in the series. V is considered one of the more overlooked entries and with a few things that a FF7R treatment would fix (like the battle system and it's difficulty, or lack thereof).

 

[EricTheGamerman]

I never made a blanket statement saying all characters from popular games don't have moveset potential. No idea where you read that.

Fact is, dismissing a character based on how many copies their game sold or whether or not their game was liked is a really crappy way to speculate. Fates could've bombed and been the most controversial game in the franchise, but that wouldn't take away from Corrin and his ability to transform into a dragon. Same thing applies to other games where I see the "shouldn't get in because their game sucks" argument used. Doesn't matter if you loved XC2 or not. Rex and the driver mechanic has a lot of potential either way. Paper Mario? Sure, I can admit that I don't like the newer games as much as the older ones, but does that mean I don't see any potential in the Paper Mario who exists in SS, CS, and OK? Not at all.

There's a lot of great characters who probably don't get the recognition they deserve, and that's largely because people are focusing too hard on the game and not the character.

Also, when did I ever say PP never had moveset potential? I'm one of the few people in this thread who defends its inclusion because there's so very few characters capable of doing half the stuff it does.

You can't really separate the character from the game though, especially in Smash where the whole damn point that Sakurai has emphasized is "bringing the game and gameplay into Smash" as much as the character themselves.

And that's just the nature of Smash, several great characters will continue to just not get recognition. It's a practical reality, not a moral one.

 

[I.D.]

I think remaking V would be more beneficial. VI is already considered one of the best entries, if not the best entry, in the series. V is considered one of the more overlooked entries and with a few things that a FF7R treatment would fix (like the battle system and it's difficulty, or lack thereof).

What's wrong with V's battle system and difficulty?

 

[zeldasmash]

What's wrong with V's battle system and difficulty?

I think it's more the difficulty rather then the battle system. The job system, while really good, I feel like it makes the game quite easy. At least I felt it did. It's an eye of the beholder type thing.

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

At the very least Square needs to get on getting all the first six Final Fantasy titles and their remakes on stuff like the eshop. Its ridiculous that the closest thing to to modern hardware to play them on are the aggressively mediocre iOS versions.

 

[zeldasmash]

At the very least Square needs to get on getting all the first six Final Fantasy titles and their remakes on stuff like the eshop. Its ridiculous that the closest thing to to modern hardware to play them on are the aggressively mediocre iOS versions.

I agree. The first 6 Final Fantasy games are pretty damn hard to get nowadays on modern platforms and the IOS remakes do not count. 3 & 4 had pretty good DS remakes from what I hear but 5 & 6 only have the GBA remakes which are pretty hard to come by.

 

[VongolaFair]

*Thinks of 'E3 level reveals that appeal to me*
Dante
Sora
Master Chief
Gimme the sauce Nintendo

 

[Perkilator]

*Thinks of 'E3 level reveals that appeal to me*
Dante
Sora
Master Chief
Gimme the sauce Nintendo

What about Crash?

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

What about Crash?

no

no crash

 

[Hadokeyblade]

*Thinks of 'E3 level reveals that appeal to me*
Dante
Sora
Master Chief
Gimme the sauce Nintendo

The most realistic one being Dante. Lets be real.

Let's brings on devils never cry into smash.

 

[Calamitas]

What about Crash?

I mean, they did say that these would be E3 reveals that appeal to them. Not everybody, or even most people. If you're hung up on that, you could just as well ask me why Crash wouldn't appeal to me.

 

[ChunkySlugger72]

If were talking "E3 level style hype" in terms of 3rd party western characters.

I'm really hoping for Crash Bandicoot or Master Chief or even better both, They are the ones that are really giving me a gut feeling of happening.

I will be somewhat shocked if neither of them appear in season 2's fighter pass.

 

[Cosmic77]

You can't really separate the character from the game though, especially in Smash where the whole damn point that Sakurai has emphasized is "bringing the game and gameplay into Smash" as much as the character themselves.

And that's just the nature of Smash, several great characters will continue to just not get recognition. It's a practical reality, not a moral one.

What does any of that have to do with sales and reception though?

Point I'm trying to make is that you can still get a very unique character despite people not liking the game they originated from. A lot of people didn't like the battle mechanics in XC2, but that doesn't mean Sakurai couldn't make someone like Rex a really fun and orginal character. SwSh is extremely controversial, but would a Gen 8 Pokemon's moveset suffer as a result? Probably not. More likely than not, they'd fit right in with the other ten Pokemon.

People should be able to understand by now that sales and the popularity of a game has very little effect on a character.

 

[GoodGrief741]

Alright then, let’s list the series in the roster that have had at least one genuinely less-than-favorably received game.
(Sticker Star)
(Barrel Blast)
(Tri Force Heroes)
(Other M)
(Yoshi’s New Island)
(Rainbow Curse)
(Star Fox Zero)
(Pokémon Dash) (You know how hard it was to ignore SwSh?)
(Ice Climber)
(Fire Emblem Fates)
(The Phantom Pain)
(Secret Rings)
(Hey! Pikmin)
(Amiibo Festival)
(Mega Man 3)
(PAC-MAN for the Atari, which many consider one of the worst games of all time)
(vanilla Street Fighter V)
(Dirge of Cerberus: Final Fantasy VII)
(Castlevania: Lords of Shadow)
(Banjo-Kazooie: Nuts & Bolts)
(King of Fighter’s XII)

So yeah, nearly every single series in the roster might as well get Thanos’d because they have bad games.

This mf seriously calling GOTY nominee MGSV a bad game over freaking Snake's Revenge

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

(The Phantom Pain)

imma just look the other way on this one

 

[SKX31]

Game and Watch is a weird character to hate when G&W basically started handheld gaming, preceding the Gameboy.

That and the Game and Watch Gallery games on the GB/GBC/GBA were my jam back in the day so I won't hear any ****talking about

Every time I attack a and he shields, he Up-B's like it's his get-out-of-jail-free card (and it is one of the best out of shield attacks in the game).

Every. Single. Time.

Other than that, I have no gripes with the OG Keyblade wielder. Miss his credit card a little though.

*Thinks of 'E3 level reveals that appeal to me*
Dante
Sora
Master Chief
Gimme the sauce Nintendo

Imma gonna suggest Lara Croft.

Because she'd be both unexpected, potentially interesting moveset and hype-inducing for many.

 

[Nekoo]

>Someone write about E3 level reveal that appeal to THEM
>People goes "But what about x"

It's a classic in this thread everytime.

 

[Perkilator]

I mean, they did say that these would be E3 reveals that appeal to them. Not everybody, or even most people. If you're hung up on that, you could just as well ask me why I Crash wouldn't appeal to me.

OOOOH, I should've read it more clearly. Sorry, I have a habit of not reading things clearly.

Anyways, Crash and Sora are E3-level reveals that would appeal to me.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Crash Bandicoot
Dante
Doom Slayer (Despite being deconfirmed)
Lloyd Irving
Master Chief
Sora
Steve
Waluigi

Geno would be hype but outside the Smash circle I don't think people really knows him so don't think he warrants being E3 levels of hype.

 

[chocolatejr9]

This mf seriously calling GOTY nominee MGSV a bad game over freaking Snake's Revenge

I'm not trying to defend them, but MGSV, while certainly a good game, had a LOT of problems, mostly due to it apparently being rushed.

 

[GoodGrief741]

I'm not trying to defend them, but MGSV, while certainly a good game, had a LOT of problems, mostly due to it apparently being rushed.

Yeah but you can also rocket punch dudes in Afghanistan so

 

[Will]

(The Phantom Pain)

I've seen more controversy over MGS2 than MGSV if I'm being honest.

 

[ZelDan]

I'm not an MGS fan, but wouldn't the more fitting answer for "less than favorably received" game go to that most recent MGS game that tried to be a zombie game or whatever?

 

[Megadoomer]

I've seen more controversy over MGS2 than MGSV if I'm being honest.

I think the biggest problem is that the game simply wasn't finished. While I haven't played chapter 2 (by my understanding, it seems ridiculously bleak), from what I've seen, there's a whole bunch of set-up towards a third chapter that never actually happens (including one character hijacking a Metal Gear, which seems like a big deal but will likely never be followed up on).

Still, I don't see how anyone can say it's a bad game, and there are infinitely worse Metal Gear games out there: