Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[Wunderwaft]

Well crap, Jeff got his hands on the game and he's telling us his experience, check the twitter thread to see his thoughts.

I previewed Paper Mario and tried to answer some of the most pressing questions.
No XP
No real leveling up
Combat minimizes attacks and is primarily about the line-up phase to the point where if you successfully line them up, you'll almost always win on the first turn. https://t.co/JF1SqztiP0

— Grubb (@JeffGrubb) July 9, 2020

To summarize what he said, basically:
- the game has no EXP or level up system
- companions don't really do much compared to the past games
- you can upgrade your HP and strength outside of battle by picking up heart upgrades
- battles are hilariously easy to ignore and there's no incentive to actually fight

 

[MooMew64]

Well crap, Jeff got his hands on the game and he's telling us his experience, check the twitter thread to see his thoughts.

I previewed Paper Mario and tried to answer some of the most pressing questions.
No XP
No real leveling up
Combat minimizes attacks and is primarily about the line-up phase to the point where if you successfully line them up, you'll almost always win on the first turn. https://t.co/JF1SqztiP0

— Grubb (@JeffGrubb) July 9, 2020

To summarize what he said, basically:
- the game has no EXP or level up system
- companions don't really do much compared to the past games
- you can upgrade your HP and strength outside of battle by picking up heart upgrades
- battles are hilariously easy to ignore and there's no incentive to actually fight

- Battles have no point

Literally right after my post saying it'd be fine if battles actually had a point lol.

This is worrying, not gonna lie. I'll see what others have to say too. As for battles...ugh.

 

[SKX31]

Funny he says that because Mario honestly at least to me feels is what he is to video gaming as Mickey is to animation so he already succeeded in that.

True, he just has a different definition it seems:

With the "Super Mario" game boasting sales of some 361 million copies worldwide, Miyamoto feels his character can just about hold its own against Disney's fabled mouse as regards cultural impact and financial success. But he still thinks he has a long way to go before Mario becomes as thoroughly ingrained in the global psyche as Mickey, a journey that may take generations.

Miyamoto's POV might come from the fact that consoles have historically been "only" JP / NA (Nintendo's started to use "Americas" in their data recently) / EU until recently. And "Other" regions still only account for 10 % of Nintendo's console sales.

Well crap, Jeff got his hands on the game and he's telling us his experience, check the twitter thread to see his thoughts.

To summarize what he said, basically:
- the game has no EXP or level up system
- companions don't really do much compared to the past games
- you can upgrade your HP and strength outside of battle by picking up heart upgrades
- battles are hilariously easy to ignore and there's no incentive to actually fight

... Yikes. This comes off as changing stuff "for the sake of it" and simultaneously not going with the genre's strengths.

To draw a contrast with the main platformers: the main platformers do not just make "the gimmick of the day" for the sake of it - platforming segments and levels are tailored to be open-ended and allow for more ways to solve the platforming challenges. Making battles not have much of an effect and give upgrades outside of battles... yeah that doesn't play to the RPG genre's strengths at all.

 

[osby]

While I don't think there's a pattern in how Nintendo chooses the Smash DLC, it's interesting to think how the second pass might have similarities to the first one.

If we say Min Min is the "Byleth" of this pass (by debuting in a successful Switch title), who might be Terry and Joker's counterparts? Characters who we don't really talk about but come from a relatively small, yet influential franchise (and may be very recent or very old)?

 

[Perkilator]

While I don't think there's a pattern in how Nintendo chooses the Smash DLC, it's interesting to think how the second pass might have similarities to the first one.

If we say Min Min is the "Byleth" of this pass (by debuting in a successful Switch title), who might be Terry and Joker's counterparts? Characters who we don't really talk about but come from a relatively small, yet influential franchise (and may be very recent or very old)?

Maybe Sakura Shinguji?

 

[Speed Weed]

While I don't think there's a pattern in how Nintendo chooses the Smash DLC, it's interesting to think how the second pass might have similarities to the first one.

If we say Min Min is the "Byleth" of this pass (by debuting in a successful Switch title), who might be Terry and Joker's counterparts? Characters who we don't really talk about but come from a relatively small, yet influential franchise (and may be very recent or very old)?

the joker would probably be someone like 2B

the terry could be sakura shinguji, yeah, and although i don't care much for him, adol from ys could work too

 

[Sari]

Well crap, Jeff got his hands on the game and he's telling us his experience, check the twitter thread to see his thoughts.

I previewed Paper Mario and tried to answer some of the most pressing questions.
No XP
No real leveling up
Combat minimizes attacks and is primarily about the line-up phase to the point where if you successfully line them up, you'll almost always win on the first turn. https://t.co/JF1SqztiP0

— Grubb (@JeffGrubb) July 9, 2020

To summarize what he said, basically:
- the game has no EXP or level up system
- companions don't really do much compared to the past games
- you can upgrade your HP and strength outside of battle by picking up heart upgrades
- battles are hilariously easy to ignore and there's no incentive to actually fight

I mean... I'll wait until what people say when the game releases...

...But yeah this is already looking to be Sticker Star 2.0 3.0

 

[M@R!3]

the joker would probably be someone like 2B

Beat me to it.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Hmm, NoA hasn’t tweeted yet today...

 

[Wunderwaft]

While I don't think there's a pattern in how Nintendo chooses the Smash DLC, it's interesting to think how the second pass might have similarities to the first one.

If we say Min Min is the "Byleth" of this pass (by debuting in a successful Switch title), who might be Terry and Joker's counterparts? Characters who we don't really talk about but come from a relatively small, yet influential franchise (and may be very recent or very old)?

The Prince from Prince of Persia?
The series is very old but it was quite impactful on the industry, it inspired the creation of Tomb Raider and Assassins Creed.

Does Dark Souls count? If we're looking at a more modern character then I think the chosen undead from Dark Souls is often forgotten about in speculation despite the series being incredibly influential. It's big enough to be referenced all the time and win awards but it doesn't have a strong mainstream appeal considering the difficulty of the games.


EDIT: Dumb little me forgot about Yakuza even though my avatar is from that game lol

 

[Sc_Ev0lution]

While I don't think there's a pattern in how Nintendo chooses the Smash DLC, it's interesting to think how the second pass might have similarities to the first one.

If we say Min Min is the "Byleth" of this pass (by debuting in a successful Switch title), who might be Terry and Joker's counterparts? Characters who we don't really talk about but come from a relatively small, yet influential franchise (and may be very recent or very old)?

*Checks wanted list*
I hope that's the case. I know we've talked about most of the characters I'm rooting for, but even so I wouldn't say there's consensus on their likelihood.

 

[Mushroomguy12]

While I don't think there's a pattern in how Nintendo chooses the Smash DLC, it's interesting to think how the second pass might have similarities to the first one.

If we say Min Min is the "Byleth" of this pass (by debuting in a successful Switch title), who might be Terry and Joker's counterparts? Characters who we don't really talk about but come from a relatively small, yet influential franchise (and may be very recent or very old)?

I know who Banjo's counterpart would be.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Who would be Hero’s counterpart?

 

[Guybrush20X6]

Well crap, Jeff got his hands on the game and he's telling us his experience, check the twitter thread to see his thoughts.

I previewed Paper Mario and tried to answer some of the most pressing questions.
No XP
No real leveling up
Combat minimizes attacks and is primarily about the line-up phase to the point where if you successfully line them up, you'll almost always win on the first turn. https://t.co/JF1SqztiP0

— Grubb (@JeffGrubb) July 9, 2020

To summarize what he said, basically:
- the game has no EXP or level up system
- companions don't really do much compared to the past games
- you can upgrade your HP and strength outside of battle by picking up heart upgrades
- battles are hilariously easy to ignore and there's no incentive to actually fight

Well as long as they're quick and painless, maybe there'll be enjoyment is figuring out the puzzle of lining them up.

And if things don't work out, there's always Bug Fables.

 

[Evil Trapezium]

While I don't think there's a pattern in how Nintendo chooses the Smash DLC, it's interesting to think how the second pass might have similarities to the first one.

If we say Min Min is the "Byleth" of this pass (by debuting in a successful Switch title), who might be Terry and Joker's counterparts? Characters who we don't really talk about but come from a relatively small, yet influential franchise (and may be very recent or very old)?

Here are a few series that could fit the bill.

Chrono Trigger - Crono
Contra - Bill Rizer
Silent Hill - James Sunderland
Ghouls n' Ghosts - Arthur
Okami - Amaterasu
Streets of Rage - Axel Stone/Blaze Fielding
Ninja Gaiden - Ryu Hayabusa
Half Life - Gordon Freeman
Dead Rising - Frank West/Chuck Greene

And just for the hell of it, the more obscure titles just to have more characters to talk about.

Sunset Riders - Cormano
Terranigma - Ark
Pop'n Twinbee - Twinbee
Lost Vikings - Eric, Baleog, Olaf
Wild Guns - Clint/Annie
Altered Beast - Player character
Shinobi - Joe Musashi
Dynamite Headdy - Headdy
Gunstar Heroes - Gunstar Red/Blue
Perfect Dark - Joanna Dark
Mischief Makers - Marina

And of course, Sgt. Cortez from TimeSplitters.

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

Part of Paper Mario's gradual problem is rooted in the same incessant need to reinvent things that's harmed certain other series so badly. I'm not asking for another TTYD, but there is value to building upon what it did. Bug Fables, for all its similarities to the first two Paper Mario titles, has even deeper fighting mechanics than both games, including a hard mode that can be turned off and on at any time for specific rewards. It feels with certain series like there's this Nintendo attitude where its either the exact same style game or a completely different one, with no median of evolving the core gameplay more.

Star Fox has rarely ever tried to expand on the core elements of SF64, preferring to insert awkward gameplay changes in the sequels that feel shallow because they're not based on improving elements that already work. Donkey Kong fell into a irrelevant gimmicks for 10 years because Nintendo didn't know or care to really make core 2D platforming better until Retro got their hands on it. F-Zero is dead because they have no interest in doing anything with it unless there's a wholly new angle to the game they can apply.

Origami King is really just a symptom of a larger problem of various mid-level Nintendo franchises not living up to their full potential because they've become subjects for excessive experimentation rather than IP's being gradually improved.

 

[PLANTMAN]

Idk if you seen it but papa is saying that geno and or waluigi are more likley & calling them 100% for fighters because of what he heard from his *confirmed source*
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1d_4uuic2xo8bZhwzJkmZtQfWFent4x8erWdd2KPqrNM/mobilebasic
Honestly there is no way not a chance this all means playable fighters, it would mostly be the geno mii coming back like the other 3rd party miis

and with Nintendo choosing its more likley they would chose a different square rep than geno like a character from bravely default to promote the sequel

this can also be said to waluigi as well

 

[SNEKeater]

While this is nice, I have to wonder... where's the Capcom that went out of it's way to depict this?
View attachment 277765

Heck, I'd pay good money to see Nintendo do something like this. I mean, Smash Ultimate's 'Everyone Is Here!' mural comes pretty darn close, but still.

To be fair, the image I posted is from the last year, and it's mostly focused on characters from games they've recently released. But that one is pretty cool as well.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Idk if you seen it but papa is saying that geno and or waluigi are more likley & calling them 100% for fighters because of what he heard from his *confirmed source*
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1d_4uuic2xo8bZhwzJkmZtQfWFent4x8erWdd2KPqrNM/mobilebasic
Honestly there is no way not a chance this all means playable fighters, it would mostly be the geno mii coming back like the other 3rd party miis

and with Nintendo choosing its more likley they would chose a different square rep than geno like a character from bravely default to promote the sequel

this can also be said to waluigi as well

I could have sworn we already had a Waluigi Mii hat in the base game... maybe I’m misremembering

as for the different square rep... you know, a certain DS cult classic has gotten a surge in promotion lately...

 

[Professor Pumpkaboo]

Idk if you seen it but papa is saying that geno and or waluigi are more likley & calling them 100% for fighters because of what he heard from his *confirmed source*
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1d_4uuic2xo8bZhwzJkmZtQfWFent4x8erWdd2KPqrNM/mobilebasic
Honestly there is no way not a chance this all means playable fighters, it would mostly be the geno mii coming back like the other 3rd party miis

and with Nintendo choosing its more likley they would chose a different square rep than geno like a character from bravely default to promote the sequel

this can also be said to waluigi as well

until I see 100% real proof, Im going to assume everyone is lying

 

[MooMew64]

Idk if you seen it but papa is saying that geno and or waluigi are more likley & calling them 100% for fighters because of what he heard from his *confirmed source*
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1d_4uuic2xo8bZhwzJkmZtQfWFent4x8erWdd2KPqrNM/mobilebasic
Honestly there is no way not a chance this all means playable fighters, it would mostly be the geno mii coming back like the other 3rd party miis

and with Nintendo choosing its more likley they would chose a different square rep than geno like a character from bravely default to promote the sequel

this can also be said to waluigi as well

Has Papa Genos really ever actually...leaked anything? Like, is there any particular reason to believe anything he says?

As far as I know, I don't even know if we can credit him for Banjo, as I thought I remembered others saying that Banjo rumors were going around even before Papa Genos said anything about it.

 

[PLANTMAN]

Tbh idk if there’s any leakers we can trust anymore aside from Nate drake & zhuge

and maybe imran idk

 

[MooMew64]

Tbh idk if there’s any leakers we can trust anymore aside from Nate drake & zhuge

and maybe imran idk

I'm willing to listen to Imran and Zhuge. However, I'm not aware of Nate Drake's credibility. Anyone willing to fill me in on what their track record's like?

 

[Wunderwaft]

I'm willing to listen to Imran and Zhuge. However, I'm not aware of Nate Drake's credibility. Anyone willing to fill me in on what their track record's like?

Nate Drake is an insider from resetera who got a lot of stuff right and warned people that Nintendo won't have a direct on June. He seems to be privy to actual behind the scenes information.

 

[MooMew64]

Nate Drake is an insider from resetera who got a lot of stuff right and warned people that Nintendo won't have a direct on June. He seems to be privy to actual behind the scenes information.

Have any of them backed the Mario remasters, out of curiosity? A lot of industry insiders have been talking about them, so I'm really curious to see if they end up happening or not. It seems to be a poorly kept secret at this point if it is true, lol.

 

[zeldasmash]

I'm willing to listen to Imran and Zhuge. However, I'm not aware of Nate Drake's credibility. Anyone willing to fill me in on what their track record's like?

It never came to my attention that Nathan Drake was a leaker. I guess this is what he does after Uncharted 4.

 

[RileyXY1]

I can definitely see a Bravely Default character getting added.

 

[DarthEnderX]

Has Papa Genos really ever actually...leaked anything?

No, he just reports on other leaks.

 

[CannonStreak]

No, he just reports on other leaks.

Either way, I am sure he has been wrong before. I mean, he did believe a leaker who said the Grinch leak would be real when it did not turn out so.

 

[Hydreigonfan01]

Either way, I am sure he has been wrong before. I mean, he did believe a leaker who said the Grinch leak would be real when it did not turn out so.

That was also the leaker who said Banjo was in, but was confused about Incineroar.

 

[Heoj]

Idk if you seen it but papa is saying that geno and or waluigi are more likley & calling them 100% for fighters because of what he heard from his *confirmed source*
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1d_4uuic2xo8bZhwzJkmZtQfWFent4x8erWdd2KPqrNM/mobilebasic
Honestly there is no way not a chance this all means playable fighters, it would mostly be the geno mii coming back like the other 3rd party miis

and with Nintendo choosing its more likley they would chose a different square rep than geno like a character from bravely default to promote the sequel

this can also be said to waluigi as well

This has already been talked about a bunch in the geno thread and the star road discord, but the idea(from what ive understood) is that this person has shared some new information with papagenos that is evidence for multiple characters, but both papagenos and the individual agreed that the only characters this majorly affects is geno and waluigi as the other characters dont have much of a chance. And with the way papagenos described this info, it isnt a direct leak in the sense that it isn't like a screenshot or codes in the game, but more just hard evidence that could point to a group of characters. So with what we've been discussing, were betting on this new info having something to do with legacy xp, since papagenos mentions how it doesn't only involve geno and waluigi, but since they both agreed that the other characters dont have much of a shot, we think hes referring to shadow and metal sonic since they were both in that mod. Papagenos makes it pretty darn clear that again, this doesn't mean one of them are guaranteed to be playable, but just that something new probably came up that has papagenos pretty convinced. He also mentions how its the sort of thing that could include legal complications if it were to be discussed, so again, we think its about legacy xp.

 

[Wunderwaft]

Man why do I have a feeling that one of the Legacy XP devs is trolling Papa Genos and is telling him something like "Nintendo took down the mod because one of the characters is DLC" or something like that.

 

[Cosmic77]

Papa Genos has brought up, what, fifty-six rumors or alleged leaks in the past two years that involve Geno?

He's a nice guy, but I do feel like he's getting to a point where anything and everything warrants a video. His "trusted sources" have been wrong numerous times, and a majority of the content he puts out never amounts to much in the end.

 

[Deleted member]

Forgive my pessimism, but I can't really put faith in the word of a Youtuber who literally has 'Geno' in his name, whose whole aesthetic revolves around the character, AND whose video intro is designed around Geno.

 

[TwiceEXE]

That's some pretty darn weak reasoning if it is true that Legacy XP no longer being worked on is the basis for this rumor. Nintendo suddenly freaked out because a character in that game is coming to Ultimate? But they weren't bothered by every other character in XP that is in Ultimate?

 

[Deleted member]

As long as you guys aren't attacking PapaGenos for this rumour. Don't be *that* guy, please.

 

[Heoj]

Forgive my pessimism, but I can't really put faith in the word of a Youtuber who literally has 'Geno' in his name, whose whole aesthetic revolves around the character, AND whose video intro is designed around Geno.

He makes it really dang clear he isnt being biased here.

Also heres what papagenos said about the whole thing
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1d_4uuic2xo8bZhwzJkmZtQfWFent4x8erWdd2KPqrNM/edit

 

[SirBillyBob]

Walking into this thread during the Paper Mario discussion like:

I've only completed Super Paper Mario and dabbled a little into Sticker Star, so I can't really speak on the series.

 

[CapitaineCrash]

While I don't think there's a pattern in how Nintendo chooses the Smash DLC, it's interesting to think how the second pass might have similarities to the first one.

If we say Min Min is the "Byleth" of this pass (by debuting in a successful Switch title), who might be Terry and Joker's counterparts? Characters who we don't really talk about but come from a relatively small, yet influential franchise (and may be very recent or very old)?

I'm going to design a pass with each character being a counterpart to the first pass (Min min is Byleth counterpart)

-Joker = 2B: A character from a very recent and critically acclaimed games. Both franchises where pretty niche until their recent release (Persona wasn't that popular before 5 and Drakengard/Nier wasn't that popular before Automata). Both 2b and Joker main game don't appear on Nintendo consoles, but they still have Nintendo apparences through spin off or cameo.

-Hero = Arle: Both Dragon quest and Puyo puyo are huge franchise in Japan with a very big history and constant releases, but was never that popular in the West. Both are pretty closely affiliated with Nintendo (but are not 100% exclusives). Both franchises also have a lot of release on Switch.

-Banjo = Gex Crash Bandicoot: Both 90's 3d mascot with huge fan demand. Not really anything else to add to this one.

-Terry = Adol Christin: Both SNK and Falcolm are old japanese video game company that used to be huge, but over time were kind of forgotten. Both YS and Fatal fury are pretty big franchises of their repective genre but are always overshadow by other fighting games or rpg. Also Falcolm don't have any Smash representation so maybe they could do something like SNK and put music from Dragon slayer and Legend of heroes as well.

 

[XorahnGaia]

That's some pretty darn weak reasoning if it is true that Legacy XP no longer being worked on is the basis for this rumor. Nintendo suddenly freaked out because a character in that game is coming to Ultimate? But they weren't bothered by every other character in XP that is in Ultimate?

Yeah, this is takes me back to december 2015 when, shortly after Project M's development got shut down, people started speculate about Isaac being one of the final DLC characters for Sm4sh, since he was going to be playable alongside Lyn and Knuckles in one of the upcoming updates for the mod.

And even though PG seens to trust this "source" there's always the possibility that is some kind of troll, just like the Monsun rumor (I don't find it very likely, but we are talking about a guy that makes a video about every single theory that gets brought in his Discord server)