Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[Honest Slug]

I feel like I'm an oddity that liked the OG Paper Mario more than TTYD.


I think that TTYD is the better game overall, but replaying TTYD is tedious in a lot of parts. Chapter 4, Chapter 3 and Chapter 7.....? are all backtracking nightmares or gauntlets like the Glitz Pit. It's the better game as a whole, but I just kinda liked how straightforward, and how little back tracking, there was in the OG.

I find TTYD a much more engaging game.

Don't get me wrong, 64 was fantastic. But it's a pretty standard Mario adventure with not that many twists or turns. TTYD in comparison has so much more varied scenarios and a darker and more creative storyline. The polished presentation and combat improvements help as well. The highs of TTYD are just really high enough to where I can forgive the lows.

With that said you can't go wrong with the original either.

 

[Evil Trapezium]

Might as well have a Thousand year door 2 because at least then we'd finally have a way to play the game on the Switch and we'd have our HD remake.

 

[rychu_supadude]

I wouldn't put it past Intelligent Systems to announce "Paper Mario: The Return To RPG" 2 minutes after I drop dead after waiting 50 years for it

I doubt TTYD will ever be topped as my favourite game, but there's so many other great experiences out there.

 

[Shroob]

I'll definitely give Origami King a fair shot


But at the same time, by 'fair shot', I'll watch a lot of gameplay on YouTube and such before I consider if it's actually a decent stand alone game, or just a different take on Color Splash.

 

[AceAttorney9000]

I've been trying to remain cautiously optimistic about The Origami King, but that bit about no EXP... oof. Maybe the coins this time around will be a substitute for EXP (not just for purchasing items and weapons, but also for purchasing Health boosts and similar things) since you seem to be getting a lot of them, but yeah, this is not a good look for the game.

Since it was brought up earlier, if you're disappointed in how The Origami King looks right now, I suggest playing Bug Fables. While it's clearly a lower-budget indie game with less polish than Nintendo's games, it's still at least giving Paper Mario fans exactly what they want... and I'll also suggest playing the two Ubisoft-published South Park games, The Stick of Truth and The Fractured But Whole.

 

[ZelDan]

Personally I think PM64 is slightly better than TTYD.

While TTYD does have higher highs than PM64 (Glitz Pit and ghost dude from Chapter 4), I think it has lower lows as well (wonky pacing). Another thing that gives PM64 and edge personally is that it has my favorite interpretation of Bowser in the Mario series.

Both games are great though and easily the best of the Paper Mario series.

 

[N3ON]

Alphadream is dead and Paper Mario is confused so while Square is bffs with Nintendo again let's just get SMRPG2. Nintendo has already picked up publishing duty for like half of Square's Switch output anyway.

 

[GoodGrief741]

Damn, TOK not having exp is such a huge turn-off. Sure, they could theoretically just have coins fill a similar role (though if that's what they're going for, why not just do exp?), but the message it sends is that they want to keep the series as baby's first RPG, which is sad for what once was such an illustrious franchise. Really wanted this one to be better, and I gave it the benefit of the doubt despite some red flags, but unless I start seeing a lot of 9s and 10s in reviews, I'm writing it off.

 

[Shroob]

Damn, TOK not having exp is such a huge turn-off. Sure, they could theoretically just have coins fill a similar role (though if that's what they're going for, why not just do exp?), but the message it sends is that they want to keep the series as baby's first RPG, which is sad for what once was such an illustrious franchise. Really wanted this one to be better, and I gave it the benefit of the doubt despite some red flags, but unless I start seeing a lot of 9s and 10s in reviews, I'm writing it off.

Personally, I'd trust gameplay videos moreso myself to see if it's the kind of game you'd actually want to play.

Like, Famitsu just gave it a 36/40..... the same score they gave Sticker Star so

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Personally, I'd trust gameplay videos moreso myself to see if it's the kind of game you'd actually want to play.

Like, Famitsu just gave it a 36/40..... the same score they gave Sticker Star so

Out of curiosity, what did they give Color Splash?

 

[PLATINUM7]

Out of curiosity, what did they give Color Splash?

35/40. Same score as Super Paper Mario.

 

[Shroob]

Out of curiosity, what did they give Color Splash?

35/40 according to a couple articles I saw.

....so they thought that Color Splash was worse than Sticker Star... and Origami King is as good as.... Sticker Star....?



....this is why I just watch gameplay videos, spoilers be damned.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I never trust gameplay videos in itself. I trust only my own experience. Anything less isn't good enough to know if you can get into it or not. I don't trust reviews well either. They often leave out key stuff nor can really tell you how the game feels till you've played it. They're legitimately interesting things to read, but they'll never be as good as personal experience.

Of course, with the idea of renting being "gone" lately, that's not much of an option either. So sadly it's not easy to really judge a game these days.

Plus, you can enjoy a game's story without playing it. By watching Let's Plays. It doesn't mean you won't enjoy the game, but sometimes a LP can be more fun than some gameplay showcase alone.

 

[Calane]

I like TTYD, I think TTYD still holds up and looks gorgeous still to this day, but the game definitely has flaws, some incredibly glaring. The game has insane backtracking requirements and the balance is out the window. It's by no means a perfect game, and tbh, I like the OG more.

Thank you for this. I feel like the original Paper Mario doesn't get enough appreciation sometimes. I actually like it more than TTYD too.

 

[DarthEnderX]

I'll definitely give Origami King a fair shot

I won't. I'm tired of giving Nintendo money for it's *****y experiments.

If they want my money, they can give me what I actually want.

Alphadream is dead and Paper Mario is confused so while Square is bffs with Nintendo again let's just get SMRPG2.

Remake Super Mario RPG with Paper Mario's art style!

 

[Guynamednelson]

If they want my money, they can give me what I actually want.

The NES Classic Edition already exists.

 

[Shroob]

I won't. I'm tired of giving Nintendo money for it's *****y experiments.

If they want my money, they can give me what I actually want.

Oh I ain't buying it. I never buy games blindly.


I remember buying Sticker Star without doing research because "Holy crap, a new Paper Mario on the 3DS!"

That's when I realized, I'm kinda a dumbass.

 

[DarthEnderX]

The NES Classic Edition already exists.

They aren't for sale anymore.

Also...pretty sure Super Mario RPG isn't on the NES Classic...

 

[ZelDan]

Unless I hear so much immense praise for the game and notice everyone treating Paper Mario: Origami King like the second coming of Jesus, which I highly doubt will happen, then I sure as hell ain't buying OK either.

I'm just going to buy Bug Fables when I clear out some of my recent game purchases.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

When did this become the Paper Mario thread?

Mii Brawler counter is objectively the best counter.

It's honestly hilarious that it's the one move the Miis have that seems to be based on something

Wild how it didn't realize this until I fought the Geese spirit but then again the only miis I se getting played is Swordfighter

 

[GoodGrief741]

Personally, I'd trust gameplay videos moreso myself to see if it's the kind of game you'd actually want to play.

Like, Famitsu just gave it a 36/40..... the same score they gave Sticker Star so

I'm more of a review kinda guy, don't like watching gameplays that could have spoilers and might not even convey stuff like how the game controls, difficulty, etc. But Famitsu is whatever, it's not even on my radar as far as reviews go.

 

[Will]

I can't take it anymore, it's killing me not to say it. I gotta take this ****ing grudge off because it's making me unreasonably upset.

Spoiler: paper mario?

I got literally shunned and murdered in cold blood over a joke about people wanting TTYD2, being told how much of a supposed ass strawman **** I was and being told "Not all Paper Mario fans are like this" like yeah no **** I'd be surprised if I ended up being right.

And now people are out here complaining and saying they wanted TTYD 2 the whole time.

They liked the damn post while they're at it, so what's with the hypocrisy!? I didn't get ass blasted like Eddie Murphy just to end up having a ****post come true like a magic fairy tale. Am I missing a memo? Am I losing out on a funny haha that everyone else is telepathically aware of? Goddamn.

I remember buying Sticker Star without doing research because "Holy crap, a new Paper Mario on the 3DS!"

That's when I realized, I'm kinda a dumbass.

I bought it on purpose just to prove that I could enjoy a game no matter how hated it was.

...I kinda miss those 40 bucks sometimes, y'know?

 

[DarthEnderX]

And now people are out here complaining and saying they wanted TTYD 2 the whole time.
They liked the damn post while they're at it, so what's with the hypocrisy!?

Two different sets of people.

 

[Ura]

Alphadream is dead and Paper Mario is confused so while Square is bffs with Nintendo again let's just get SMRPG2. Nintendo has already picked up publishing duty for like half of Square's Switch output anyway.

Really hoping this ends up happening and SMRPG2 bodies Paper Mario in sales.

I mean IDK the chances of SMRPG2 being developed but it should happen. I'm just saying.

 

[MarioDDR755]

I had got and played Sticker Star, but honestly it was... quite difficult. I don't remember the details but I got stuck in a place and just didn't know how to proceed with what options they gave me. It was odd I'll admit, and disappointing given that I liked how the game looked.

I never finished it...

 

[Swamp Sensei]

I had got and played Sticker Star, but honestly it was... quite difficult. I don't remember the details but I got stuck in a place and just didn't know how to proceed with what options they gave me. It was odd I'll admit, and disappointing given that I liked how the game looked.

I never finished it...

Was it the darn Wiggler section?

 

[Guybrush20X6]

Well, I'll wait and see how The Origami King does with reviewers who I know have a similar mindset.

Color Splash might have been a good game in it's own right if the battle system wasn't so tedious to sell the "WIIU GMAE!" angle.

 

[MarioDDR755]

Was it the darn Wiggler section?

Yea, it was approximately there, actually. I guess I'm not the only one to have trouble there... I wish I remembered better what exactly held me up.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

This is going to be a strange take but I think Paper Mario Sticker Star Might have been a decent game if they, and stay with me on this, removed the combat almost entirely. I think the game would have been much better if instead of a half-hearted RPG, they made it and point and stick adventure game where you used stickers to solve puzzles. That way you wouldn't spend so much effort on the first boss only for Kirsti to call you a big dumb-dumb for not using the cheap way.

 

[TwiceEXE]

This is going to be a strange take but I think Paper Mario Sticker Star Might have been a decent game if they, and stay with me on this, removed the combat almost entirely. I think the game would have been much better if instead of a half-hearted RPG, they made it and point and stick adventure game where you used stickers to solve puzzles. That way you wouldn't spend so much effort on the first boss only for Kirsti to call you a big dumb-dumb for not using the cheap way.

Frankly, the combat in the previous two Paper Mario games has been so dreadfully tedious and time consuming that they both would have been better if it was removed. If you want to diverge from the original formula, don't half-*** it; just cut off the head and do the new thing you want to do.

 

[CapitaineCrash]

This is going to be a strange take but I think Paper Mario Sticker Star Might have been a decent game if they, and stay with me on this, removed the combat almost entirely. I think the game would have been much better if instead of a half-hearted RPG, they made it and point and stick adventure game where you used stickers to solve puzzles. That way you wouldn't spend so much effort on the first boss only for Kirsti to call you a big dumb-dumb for not using the cheap way.

The thing is, combat isn't even the only problem of sticker star. There's no exploration, the story is boring, the characters are boring, the dialogue are far from what ttyd and super had, the puzzle are boring too.

I don't actually disagree with you that Paper Mario need a reboot. Either transform it in a adventure game, or go back to it's rpg roots, but not something in between. But saying that Sticker star with no combat would be good is 100% false.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

The thing is, combat isn't even the only problem of sticker star. There's no exploration, the story is boring, the characters are boring, the dialogue are far from what ttyd and super had, the puzzle are boring too.

I don't actually disagree with you that Paper Mario need a reboot. Either transform it in a adventure game, or go back to it's rpg roots, but not something in between. But saying that Sticker star with no combat would be good is 100% false.

Yeah, Color Splash is probably the better choice for that.

It actually had good dialogue, characters and a fair amount of exploration. It just needed major retweaking.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

The first two games still stand out being the best followed by Super.

Never played Sticker Star and Color Splash, so can't tell my opinion on those. I will definitely be getting The Origami King. It has been so long since I played a Paper Mario game.

 

[Dinoman96]

In regards to Paper Mario, I'll just post what I recently posted on ResetERA

 

[kylexv]

All this Paper Mario talk makes me miss when Nintendo was willing to get more experimental with the Mario franchise. I mean, have you looked at Mario Strikers?

That game would never happen nowadays, and people have pretty much abandoned all hope for another installment. Ever since the Wii U/3DS era Mario spinoffs have been noticeably more...vanilla, if you understand what I'm saying. They really don't stand out as much.

 

[HansShotFirst20]

Happy National Videogame Day from Capcom.

Happy National Video Game Day from all of us at Capcom! Thank you for playing and making us a part of your lives for so many years! 💛💙

What are your all time favorite Capcom games? 👀 pic.twitter.com/VHS2ONMFjS

— Capcom USA (@CapcomUSA_) July 8, 2020

Yeah, I only posted this because of the super cool art. It would be nice to have some of these characters in Smash...

No Vergil? smh Capcom

 

[rychu_supadude]

All this Paper Mario talk makes me miss when Nintendo was willing to get more experimental with the Mario franchise. I mean, have you looked at Mario Strikers?

View attachment 277798

That game would never happen nowadays, and people have pretty much abandoned all hope for another installment. Ever since the Wii U/3DS era Mario spinoffs have been noticeably more...vanilla, if you understand what I'm saying. They really don't stand out as much.

100%. They seem to have eased off slightly from the sterileness, but we're still never going to see Toadsworth again. Hear me out, what if they tried to reignite the Strikers aesthetic by having Mario Kart 9 feature monster trucks? Idk, just do something crazy.

 

[SKX31]

In regards to Paper Mario, I'll just post what I recently posted on ResetERA

Funny that you mentioned Mickey Mouse in that post, because that's what Miyamoto wants Mario to become essentially. Still though, that goal isn't cut and dry to quote the article:

Miyamoto says his creative direction has been changing. For many years, he tried to maintain a certain consistency with Mario. While this has given the character an air of familiarity, it has cramped Miyamoto's style. For example, if Mario is known to like certain foods, the character cannot suddenly develop a distaste for them in subsequent episodes.

This has inspired Miyamoto to avoid casting Mario too rigidly, giving him freedom to explore different character scenarios. "I've become more interested in creating greater opportunities for a larger audience to enjoy" the Mario world, Miyamoto says.

It is not just a sense of altruism that has guided Miyamoto. The approach ensures that Mario will not die with him, essentially leaving successive generations of creators with a template that can evolve with the times, just as Mickey Mouse has done long after the death of Walt Disney.

But there are other hurdles."Many parents want to keep their children from playing video games," Miyamoto said. "But these same parents have no problem allowing them to watch Disney movies." This contradiction bothers Miyamoto and could thwart his plans to topple Mickey. "We cannot seriously challenge [Disney] unless parents start feeling comfortable about their children playing Nintendo."

I can see where you're coming from: the above stated goal of challenging Mickey Mouse limits Mario games (Paper Mario included) sometimes needlessly. However, it doesn't have to be a limitation per se - the main platform games have him exploring very different scenarios and benefit from that. That's a different case from the traditionally more rigid RPG genre.

That said, there's a major disconnect regarding what Miyamoto / Nintendo at large prioritizes with the Paper Mario series and what the Paper Mario fandom generally wants. Nintendo's goal of "different character scenarios" seem to treat the RPG characters as not just one-off characters, but also tied to the game for the sake of it. Just like the platformers. Problem is that - as you pointed out - RPG fans (not just Paper Mario) get more attached to the characters they like because of the time spent on the characters. Like your Admiral Bobbery example.

What I'm trying to say is that - IMHO - Nintendo could've done much more with Sticker Star and Color Splash. If they'd given Kersti and Huey more quirks (and not made Kersti unlikable) and diversified the friendly NPC roster they could've alliviated a lot of the disconnect. Origami King looks kinda like a step in the right direction, but again, Nintendo could still fall into the same trap of "different character scenario for the sake of it".

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Funny that you mentioned Mickey Mouse in that post, because that's what Miyamoto wants Mario to become essentially. Still though, that goal isn't cut and dry to quote the article:




I can see where you're coming from: the above stated goal of challenging Mickey Mouse limits Mario games (Paper Mario included) sometimes needlessly. However, it doesn't have to be a limitation per se - the main platform games have him exploring very different scenarios and benefit from that. That's a different case from the traditionally more rigid RPG genre.

That said, there's a major disconnect regarding what Miyamoto / Nintendo at large prioritizes with the Paper Mario series and what the Paper Mario fandom generally wants. Nintendo's goal of "different character scenarios" seem to treat the RPG characters as not just one-off characters, but also tied to the game for the sake of it. Just like the platformers. Problem is that - as you pointed out - RPG fans (not just Paper Mario) get more attached to the characters they like because of the time spent on the characters. Like your Admiral Bobbery example.

What I'm trying to say is that - IMHO - Nintendo could've done much more with Sticker Star and Color Splash. If they'd given Kersti and Huey more quirks (and not made Kersti unlikable) and diversified the friendly NPC roster they could've alliviated a lot of the disconnect. Origami King looks kinda like a step in the right direction, but again, Nintendo could still fall into the same trap of "different character scenario for the sake of it".

Funny he says that because Mario honestly at least to me feels is what he is to video gaming as Mickey is to animation so he already succeeded in that.

 

[MooMew64]

As a diehard PM fan I have...Mixed feeling about OK.

Honestly, I could sit here and type out a huge rant about what I hate about Sticker Star and Color Splash, but A: I'm on my phone atm and typing is a pain, and B: I think OK has the potential (not "will", but potential) to be, at least from a gameplay perspective, be the best non-TTYD game. I don't need PM to be an RPG to be good, I just want a good game with good game design, and OK shows promise, so I will pick it up and see what it's about.

Honestly, I wouldn't even compare it to TTYD anyway: Modern PM is basically an entirely different series now, completely unrecognizable from the first three that it's honestly just better to treat it like a new series now. I will be comparing OK to SS and CS, not 64, TTYD, and Super.

As for if TTYD will ever come back? No. In my opinion, it's not. This is the fourth time they chose to ignore feedback, and y'know what? I am entirely convinced they know people want it, they know it'd be the easiest money making crowd pleaser they could do...but they just. Don't. Wanna. Do it. Like, at this point it's just stubbornness and a desire to go "Nuh uh, PM was ALWAYS like this! It's YOU people who don't understand!"

And y'know what? Fine. I'm done asking for what I want. TTYD is dead, and I'm moving on. I'm treating PM as what Nintendo wants me to: A gimmicky, wild and oh so wacky spin off with ha ha funny memes and paper, cause that's what it's all about, right?

Bah, I'm ranting now. Point is, OK will be ok as long as they've learned from SS and CS battles have no point woes, and I'm hopeful they have. I'm expecting at least an okay game here, but eh, gotta wait and see.