Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[ZelDan]

Man Who Thought He'd Lost All Hope Loses Last Additional Bit Of Hope He Didn't Even Know He Still Had

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I'm buying Bug Fables.

I didn't have much hope after the initial OK trailer. Then them making bosses out of ****ing colored pencils and scissors or whatever is what killed whatever puny amount of hope I may have still had.

This news is just laughing and taking a huge diarrhea dump on the rotting corpse that is my hopes of ever seeing Mario RPGs have a return to form.

 

[Shroob]

Man Who Thought He'd Lost All Hope Loses Last Additional Bit Of Hope He Didn't Even Know He Still Had

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I'm buying Bug Fables.

Saw this coming from a mile away.

To anyone saying "It could be like paint in Color Splash!".... Yeah, they weren't going to do that.



Maybe one day we'll get an actual Mario RPG again. Maybe Mario&Luigi will be picked up by a new dev team.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I mean, having level up stats doesn't make it less of an rpg or more of one. It just means it's less of a traditional one. Paper Mario is an action rpg still at its core, and keeps up with the core idea behind its design. I agree it's not as cool as it could be, though.

I liked that Color Splash still had general battle experience again. Sadly this one doesn't. It probably helps that it was easy to justify how you got the paint. Where it looks like this game doesn't have a good reason to gain something from the enemies beyond traditional experience points(which they clearly have stepped away from).

I want the Mario & Luigi rpg games to return so we have both kinds of rpg's, really. They both have their own unique niche. Though the new equipment system here is one notable aspect of M&L in itself. It had SMRPG-like equipment, while Paper Mario had "equip a crapload of stuff, while having permanent story-given equipment too". Well, first two games, anyway. I wonder if that's why it has this equipment system, since the developers for M&L are currently gone? As a nice nod to it and giving a usable equipment system with balance well in mind?

 

[Shroob]

I mean, having level up stats doesn't make it less of an rpg or more of one. It just means it's less of a traditional one. Paper Marpo is an action rpg still at its core, and keeps up with the se behind its design. I agree it's not as cool as it could be, though.

I liked that Color Splash still had general battle experience again. Sadly this one doesn't. It probably helps that it was easy to justify how you got the paint. Where it looks like this game doesn't have a good reason to gain something from the enemies beyond traditional experience points(which they clearly have stepped away from).

I want the Mario & Luigi rpg games to return so we have both kinds of rpg's, really.

I'd argue it does.


What point is there to fight enemies if I'm not getting anything from the fight? I fight enemies in RPGs because I want to get stronger, so I can fight stronger foes. Sure, I'll get coins, like.... all 3 prior games, but we've seen clips where the player has thousands of coins. Unless the in-game economy is hella inflated, you're almost assuredly not going to need thousands upon thousands of coins for anything meaningful.


So then, why do I want to fight enemies? I'd be better off just avoiding them since they're just wasting my time. Unless coins are super important, which, the last 2 games, they were not, I can just.... not fight anything, which takes away a huge part of the role playing aspect of the RPG.

 

[Will]

Man Who Thought He'd Lost All Hope Loses Last Additional Bit Of Hope He Didn't Even Know He Still Had

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I'm buying Bug Fables.

Nooooooo you can't have no EXP it's supposed to be like Thousand Year Door where's Thousand Year Door 2 Noooo-

I can get jumped by as many posts with a 20 like army telling me I'm making more strawmen than the Wicked Witch of the West, this is just ironic.

So then, why do I want to fight enemies? I'd be better off just avoiding them since they're just wasting my time. Unless coins are super important, which, the last 2 games, they were not, I can just.... not fight anything, which takes away a huge part of the role playing aspect of the RPG.

Were the coin rewards always that ****ing massive? Because if they are, it looks like they might be this time. Otherwise, there isn't really a point like the last two games. Only real fun parts of the new game battle system was the neat unique item animations.

 

[Shroob]

Nooooooo you can't have no EXP it's supposed to be like Thousand Year Door where's Thousand Year Door 2 Noooo-

I can get jumped by as many posts with a 20 like army telling me I'm making more strawmen than the Wicked Witch of the West, this is just ironic.


Were the coin rewards always that ****ing massive? Because if they are, it looks like they might be this time. Otherwise, there isn't really a point like the last two games. Only real fun parts of the new game battle system was the neat unique item animations.

You got a ****ton of coins in Sticker Star for just getting to the end of every stage, and while I personally never played Color Splash, I've always heard that battling anything but bosses was completely unnecessary.

I can confirm handily that you got coins vomited at you in Sticker Star, I just finished(Forced myself to finish) a 3rd playthrough recently.

 

[Will]

You got a ****ton of coins in Sticker Star for just getting to the end of every stage, and while I personally never played Color Splash, I've always heard that battling anything but bosses was completely unnecessary.

I can confirm handily that you got coins vomited at you in Sticker Star, I just finished(Forced myself to finish) a 3rd playthrough recently.

Man I must have **** memory from Sticker Star. Though, I'm not terribly upset over the lack of EXP, I'm used to this by now, it's practically the new formula. There could be some battle-based rewards in the game, but I'm no dev.

 

[Staarih]

As a Paper Mario fan, I’ve learned to just take each game as a take on something new, as that’s clearly the route they’re taking with the series instead of looking back. I’m probably the minority in enjoying Color Splash and thinking Sticker Star was OK, and to me Origami King looks promising. It looks pretty and writing seems to be on-point and the battle system engaging. Sure it’s a bit of a bummer that battling doesn’t really seem to give you much (if anything) and the confetti mechanic looks like a rehashed paint mechanic from CS, but I’ll give it the benefit of the doubt and wait for reviews. I’ll probably end up enjoying it in any case though, it’s just what Paper Mario does to me lol.

 

[ZelDan]

It's possible to not have EXP and still have battles be worthwhile if you make Gold really worthwhile or necessary, and allow gold to get you some powerful or neat stuff, and also have it so gold isn't stupidly easy to get outside of battle,

I don't really have confidence they'll pull it off with Origami King though.

 

[Shroob]

As a Paper Mario fan, I’ve learned to just take each game as a take on something new, as that’s clearly the route they’re taking with the series instead of looking back. I’m probably the minority in enjoying Color Splash and thinking Sticker Star was OK, and to me Origami King looks promising. It looks pretty and writing seems to be on-point and the battle system engaging. Sure it’s a bit of a bummer that battling doesn’t really seem to give you much (if anything) and the confetti mechanic looks like a rehashed paint mechanic from CS, but I’ll give it the benefit of the doubt and wait for reviews. I’ll probably end up enjoying it in any case though, it’s just what Paper Mario does to me lol.

Really, I just wish if they were going to make it so battles were pointless, that they'd just turn the game into a pseudo platformer/adventure game and drop the turn based combat entirely.

Keep it for the bosses if you want, but the regular enemies are just massive wastes of time.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I'd argue it does.

I don't see how that's an actual definition. The fact stats and such exist in the first place is what makes it far more of an rpg than just leveling them up.

What point is there to fight enemies if I'm not getting anything from the fight? I fight enemies in RPGs because I want to get stronger, so I can fight stronger foes. Sure, I'll get coins, like.... all 3 prior games, but we've seen clips where the player has thousands of coins. Unless the in-game economy is hella inflated, you're almost assuredly not going to need thousands upon thousands of coins for anything meaningful.

That's one way to play rpg's, yes. And why low level runs exist, because you don't need to become stronger to win in every game. Some even have anti-grinding as a feature so leveling up is not the smartest method.

Coins no matter what people say is "getting something from the fight". That's literally a core thing about rpg mechanics, the enemy drop. Is it shallow? Absolutely! But it's still a natural part of rpg's.

So then, why do I want to fight enemies? I'd be better off just avoiding them since they're just wasting my time. Unless coins are super important, which, the last 2 games, they were not, I can just.... not fight anything, which takes away a huge part of the role playing aspect of the RPG.

I'd say getting any kind of reward after battle is enough on its own. That's all I need to confirm it's a clear rpg. I really don't care if there's traditional experience(or close to in Color Splash's case or not). Still an rpg through and through. Just a shallow one that's clearly selling just fine. My guess is the issue is trying to sell slow turn-based rpg's lately, where people want these super high-paced ones. It's also actually a lot harder to really balance enemies around constantly changing experience and levels, so having one core level can allow for a much better balanced game. So it's not actually a bad thing since they can very easily balance it around equipment you can get. And that equipment may also be hard to get to or cost enough money but not be too powerful for the area, making it extremely difficult to overlevel.

But that's just one theory. I've felt that a huge issue with traditional levels is that it's extremely hard to balance the game around it without overpowering the enemies(in which case, all you can do is grind. In some cases, grinding doesn't inherently make you overpowered if the level ups aren't entirely traditional. Just grinding specific aspects of yours, like defense alone means you won't get wafflestomped, but it also means your ability to deal damage is still on par with the enemies). We have yet to see how the game is balanced. They clearly did a very poor job with the bosses in Sticker Star, but the enemies were in areas where you generally had access to excellent sticker options to even it out. They did a surprisingly good job at balancing enemies around you fairly well. Color Splash I don't remember well enough on that front, but I think it was similar overall. This game, having proper equipment, already looks significantly closer to a balanced front compared to the previous two games.

 

[Will]

Paper Mario seems to get progressively more "Yo look how ****ing cool this looks and how ****ing funny our localization staff is" with each game instead of becoming a more dedicated RPG, of which M&L took up before its company died a tragic death of pumping out remakes until it couldn't handle it no more.

I doubt the series is going to ever have a return to true form, but that's fine as long as the content is enjoyable, IMO.

It's possible to not have EXP and still have battles be worthwhile if you make Gold really worthwhile or necessary, and allow gold to get you some powerful or neat stuff, and also have it so gold isn't stupidly easy to get outside of battle,

I don't really have confidence they'll pull it off with Origami King though.

That's what I was thinking, but maybe instead of EXP it could be numbers-based growth. Not saying it would be though, the only elements of RPG left in this damn game is the turn-based system.

Really, I just wish if they were going to make it so battles were pointless, that they'd just turn the game into a pseudo platformer/adventure game and drop the turn based combat entirely.

Keep it for the bosses if you want, but the regular enemies are just massive wastes of time.

So basically, Super Paper Mario 2? I remember that one Chain Chomp boss battle and being so ****ing confused.

Forgive the video quality, the only piece I can find of this fight is from, I **** you not, 2007.

 

[PLATINUM7]

It's possible to not have EXP and still have battles be worthwhile if you make Gold really worthwhile or necessary, and allow gold to get you some powerful or neat stuff, and also have it so gold isn't stupidly easy to get outside of battle,

I don't really have confidence they'll pull it off with Origami King though.

The first two SaGa (Final Fantasy Legend) games had human characters get stronger solely by spending money on better equipment and stat boosting items.

But yeah, Paper Mario even when it has experience keeps RPG elements simple.

 

[Rikarte]

Man Who Thought He'd Lost All Hope Loses Last Additional Bit Of Hope He Didn't Even Know He Still Had

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I'm buying Bug Fables.

Mushroom Kingdom must've been hit by a massive inflation if you gain 260 coins from one battle against a bunch of Goombas. Seriously, how expensive are those items going to be? lol
I still think they can make this work though - battling gives you coins to buy items/upgrades and confetti to do stuff on the overworld. Really my biggest worry is that the game just showers you in resources again like SS and CS did, making combat once again pretty worthless...

 

[Shroob]

I don't see how that's an actual definition. The fact stats and such exist in the first place is what makes it far more of an rpg than just leveling them up.


That's one way to play rpg's, yes. And why low level runs exist, because you don't need to become stronger to win in every game. Some even have anti-grinding as a feature so leveling up is not the smartest method.

Coins no matter what people say is "getting something from the fight". That's literally a core thing about rpg mechanics, the enemy drop. Is it shallow? Absolutely! But it's still a natural part of rpg's.


I'd say getting any kind of reward after battle is enough on its own. That's all I need to confirm it's a clear rpg. I really don't care if there's traditional experience(or close to in Color Splash's case or not). Still an rpg through and through. Just a shallow one that's clearly selling just fine. My guess is the issue is trying to sell slow turn-based rpg's lately, where people want these super high-paced ones. It's also actually a lot harder to really balance enemies around constantly changing experience and levels, so having one core level can allow for a much better balanced game. So it's not actually a bad thing since they can very easily balance it around equipment you can get. And that equipment may also be hard to get to or cost enough money but not be too powerful for the area, making it extremely difficult to overlevel.

But that's just one theory. I've felt that a huge issue with traditional levels is that it's extremely hard to balance the game around it without overpowering the enemies(in which case, all you can do is grind. In some cases, grinding doesn't inherently make you overpowered if the level ups aren't entirely traditional. Just grinding specific aspects of yours, like defense alone means you won't get wafflestomped, but it also means your ability to deal damage is still on par with the enemies). We have yet to see how the game is balanced. They clearly did a very poor job with the bosses in Sticker Star, but the enemies were in areas where you generally had access to excellent sticker options to even it out. They did a surprisingly good job at balancing enemies around you fairly well. Color Splash I don't remember well enough on that front, but I think it was similar overall. This game, having proper equipment, already looks significantly closer to a balanced front compared to the previous two games.

If the reward I'm getting from a fight can be gotten in a less time consuming and tedious way, why am I wasting my time fighting enemies?

I'd rather do whatever the paper gimmick that'll spit coins at you than spend x amount of time grinding enemies for coins, I get no satisfaction from this.


A good RPG will make it so you don't need to grind, while keeping the enemies challenging, but fair. A perfect example of this is the original Paper Mario on N64. You absolutely do not need to grind at all in that game to progress, and not once does the game ever feel 'unfair' due to enemy difficulty.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

I'm gonna wait and see on Origami King. Hopefully reviews can convince me.

I'm perfectly open to a unique experience like Super Paper Mario, so if its good, I'll try it.

If not though, I won't waste my time.

For the record, Famitsu liked it but...

https://nintendoeverything.com/paper-mario-the-origami-king-first-review-from-famitsu-translated/

It's Famitsu.

 

[PLATINUM7]

If the reward I'm getting from a fight can be gotten in a less time consuming and tedious way, why am I wasting my time fighting enemies?

I'd rather do whatever the paper gimmick that'll spit coins at you than spend x amount of time grinding enemies for coins, I get no satisfaction from this.


A good RPG will make it so you don't need to grind, while keeping the enemies challenging, but fair. A perfect example of this is the original Paper Mario on N64. You absolutely do not need to grind at all in that game to progress, and not once does the game ever feel 'unfair' due to enemy difficulty.

The games also discouraged you from grinding by reducing the exp gain from weaker enemies as you levelled up.

 

[Will]

Mushroom Kingdom must've been hit by a massive inflation if you gain 260 coins from one battle against a bunch of Goombas. Seriously, how expensive are those items going to be? lol

If the inflation gets any higher, there will be a communist revolution. They have more than enough basic red Toads for the part.

 

[Shroob]

The games also discouraged you from grinding by reducing the exp gain from weaker enemies as you levelled up.

That too.

A good RPG will balance the EXP to make it so the gameplay is smooth and fair to the end. Sure, feel free to chuck in a stupidly overpowered superboss in there, but a good RPG won't force you to spend hours grinding mindlessly.

 

[DarthEnderX]

As a Paper Mario fan, I’ve learned to just take each game as a take on something new, as that’s clearly the route they’re taking with the series instead of looking back.

As a Super Mario and Paper Mario fan, I take each game as a take on something new, as long as that something new is still good.

TYD was the last good Paper Mario game. But I didn't lament it too much because the M&L series was still a thing doing the Mario RPG thing as good or better than ever.

But now the M&L studio is gone, and the last M&L game sucked BECAUSE it was also a Paper Mario game, so we might never see another one...

 

[TwiceEXE]

I just wanted a traditional Paper Mario game, and foolishly let the rumors give me a slight bit of hope. Maybe the game is better than Color Splash but that is not a high bar IMO.

I guess you can put me in the "why not TTYD 2 reeeee!?" camp.

Edit: I guess it could be worse, it's not like we're getting The Last of Us 2. The game will probably be enjoyable, just not what many wanted.

 

[Shroob]

I like TTYD, I think TTYD still holds up and looks gorgeous still to this day, but the game definitely has flaws, some incredibly glaring. The game has insane backtracking requirements and the balance is out the window. It's by no means a perfect game, and tbh, I like the OG more.


But... I don't think it's wrong for anyone to want a more traditional RPG, because frankly, now with Alphadream gone... there isn't going to be one, probably for a long, long time.

 

[Honest Slug]

I find it weird how some people act as if Paper Mario would somehow go stale if they made another game in the vein of TTYD despite the fact that of the 6 Paper Mario games only 2 of them have the original style. If anything it's the Sticker Star formula that has overstayed its welcome and has gotten stale.

I guess Origami King isn't technically the same formula as Sticker Star but it shares WAY more similarities to the last 2 games than the first 2-3 games, and many of the key flaws (No point in battling, unoriginal character designs, etc.) still seem present in some form.

 

[PLATINUM7]

Still ****ing mad Sticker Star was originally going to be a return to the format of the first two games.

Because then after that maybe I could have begun asking for Super Paper Mario 2 without people getting mad at me.

 

[Will]

I just wanted a traditional Paper Mario game

That was your first mistake.

I find it weird how some people act as if Paper Mario would somehow go stale if they made another game in the vein of TTYD despite the fact that of the 6 Paper Mario games only 2 of them have the original style.

Who the hell is saying that?

 

[Honest Slug]

Who the hell is saying that?

It's what we call being online.

 

[Shroob]

It's what we call being online.

I can vouch for this.

You bring up liking the OG/TTYD on any form of social media like Twitter/Reddit, you're gonna be mobbed by people that go "You just want more of the same."


Hell, I know a big Color Splash YouTuber used to rile up people into making fun of OG/TTYD fans....only to apologize because he realized "Wow, I'm being a huge ass."

 

[TwiceEXE]

I find it weird how some people act as if Paper Mario would somehow go stale if they made another game in the vein of TTYD despite the fact that of the 6 Paper Mario games only 2 of them have the original style. If anything it's the Sticker Star formula that has overstayed its welcome and has gotten stale.

Honestly, one of the biggest issues with some Nintendo franchises is that the creators feel like each game MUST have a gimmick otherwise why make a sequel? Many fans just want more of the same but for whatever reason some franchises don't give it to them. F-Zero is the most prominent example of this.

 

[Will]

You bring up liking the OG/TTYD on any form of social media like Twitter/Reddit, you're gonna be mobbed by people that go "You just want more of the same."

Many fans just want more of the same

Duality of Man?

 

[PLATINUM7]

My take: The last Paper Mario with the gameplay that long time fans have been asking for was 2004 so getting another game now that's just more of the same isn't a bad thing and won't be stale when you also consider it would only be the third game to play that way. Saying it would be stale or reducing it to just more of the same is further bull**** given Colour Splash came after Sticker Star.

 

[Shroob]

Honestly, one of the biggest issues with some Nintendo franchises is that the creators feel like each game MUST have a gimmick otherwise why make a sequel? Many fans just want more of the same but for whatever reason some franchises don't give it to them. F-Zero is the most prominent example of this.

It's weird that the 3D Mario games get this right.


Say what you will about FLUDD, but I can't really think of a bad 3D Mario game. 64, Sunshine, Galaxy 1+2 and Odyssey all incorporate gimmicks while keeping their identity in check.

 

[Guynamednelson]

You are now aware Paper Mario and Star Fox have opposite problems.

PM doesn't want to look at what worked in the past while SF looks at the past too much.

 

[PLATINUM7]

It's weird that the 3D Mario games get this right.


Say what you will about FLUDD, but I can't really think of a bad 3D Mario game. 64, Sunshine, Galaxy 1+2 and Odyssey all incorporate gimmicks while keeping their identity in check.

Odyssey was very much a return to form for 3D Mario and was recognised as such by Nintendo when they compared it and 64/Sunshine to the Galaxy games and 3D Land and World.

Spoiler

 

[Guybrush20X6]

Honestly, one of the biggest issues with some Nintendo franchises is that the creators feel like each game MUST have a gimmick otherwise why make a sequel? Many fans just want more of the same but for whatever reason some franchises don't give it to them. F-Zero is the most prominent example of this.

The problem also arises in how central the gimmicks are. Some are overwhelming, others are less impactful than a drop of spit in the ocean. Star Fox Zero had only motion controls because screw people who don't own swivel chairs and the gimmick of NSMBU was a 5th wheel player placing blocks.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

If the reward I'm getting from a fight can be gotten in a less time consuming and tedious way, why am I wasting my time fighting enemies?

I'd rather do whatever the paper gimmick that'll spit coins at you than spend x amount of time grinding enemies for coins, I get no satisfaction from this.


A good RPG will make it so you don't need to grind, while keeping the enemies challenging, but fair. A perfect example of this is the original Paper Mario on N64. You absolutely do not need to grind at all in that game to progress, and not once does the game ever feel 'unfair' due to enemy difficulty.

I never found battles tedious in itself. I love grinding and find it the core backbone of a traditional rpg. Of course not every rpg is traditional. Grinding doesn't exist in the same way in every game obviously.

I've found most mini-games in rpg's to be fairly tedious too. They rarely have been "good" because they have horrid controls and are often stupidly mandatory. FFVII had a few of those that I'm pretty sure were made a lot better in the remake(the diving mini-game was extremely awkward, for instance). Triple Triad at least was good in VIII, and had a nice purpose for a game about mostly anti-grinding(except ability points, a necessity to make the game beatable anyway). But then it had the really dumb mini-games during mandatory battles where you need to press the right buttons in a specific sequence to counter the enemy, and that was not remotely fun or interesting. So it depends the mini-game, but they usually have been outright awful for me.

So bring the battles, without the bull**** awkward timing with buttons. If it's Paper Mario-esque timing, sure. I can still beat M&L outside of one Koopaling mini-game(which trying to control two characters at once was overly hard for me to the point I have not beaten the first game. Second game though, that was way easier despite the enemies being more powerful. I just stop bothering with dodging and use items cause 4 characters at once was way too much to handle consistently. Bowser's Inside Story? I'm probably not going to pick up a new copy cause the mini-games are just overly tedious and dumb at times. I like a few puzzles, but come on).

I'd go on, but no, I'd say keep the battle systems always and made the mini-games only optional and mostly rare. That makes 'em just way more playable in the end. No awkward battle mechanics. Ugh. I want some experience back too, but I don't feel experience matters if there's actual ways to increase your abilities by going through battles overall. To me, Sticker Star and Color Splash blatantly had it by giving you more options to buy, etc. Again, I'll call it shallow like it is(though Origami King having equipment eliminates the shallow part, imo), but I like it nice and simple. Though that's part of what made PM great, since you could only level up a stat at a time regardless. HP didn't go up with any other stat, in any of the other games(badge use aside, of course).

The big reason I even enjoyed Paper Mario is that it had a really cool battle system that felt worth it in every iteration of the normal rpg ones(so all but Super Paper Mario), and the 3DS and Wii U games had a ton of soul on their own, especially with the Thing Cards, that made me outright love the series. To note, when I say awkward battle mechanics, I mean things like having to "paint the cards" isn't fun. That's the main reason why the battles felt tedious, due to that mechanic alone. That's why you would level up your paint, to get more so you can handle a longer battle easier.

(I hope I spaced them out well enough).

 

[Shroob]

I feel like I'm an oddity that liked the OG Paper Mario more than TTYD.


I think that TTYD is the better game overall, but replaying TTYD is tedious in a lot of parts. Chapter 4, Chapter 3 and Chapter 7.....? are all backtracking nightmares or gauntlets like the Glitz Pit. It's the better game as a whole, but I just kinda liked how straightforward, and how little back tracking, there was in the OG.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

I like Super Paper Mario and Thousand Year Door about equally. Paper Mario is behind them but not by much.

Sticker Star had nice music, but that's all I can say.

Didn't play Color Splash. Maybe I'll try it if I can find it cheap.

 

[Shroob]

I never found battles tedious in itself. I love grinding and find it the core backbone of a traditional rpg. Of course not every rpg is traditional. Grinding doesn't exist in the same way in every game obviously.

I've found most mini-games in rpg's to be fairly tedious too. They rarely have been "good" because they have horrid controls and are often stupidly mandatory. FFVII had a few of those that I'm pretty sure were made a lot better in the remake(the diving mini-game was extremely awkward, for instance). Triple Triad at least was good in VIII, and had a nice purpose for a game about mostly anti-grinding(except ability points, a necessity to make the game beatable anyway). But then it had the really dumb mini-games during mandatory battles where you need to press the right buttons in a specific sequence to counter the enemy, and that was not remotely fun or interesting. So it depends the mini-game, but they usually have been outright awful for me.

So bring the battles, without the bull**** awkward timing with buttons. If it's Paper Mario-esque timing, sure. I can still beat M&L outside of one Koopaling mini-game(which trying to control two characters at once was overly hard for me to the point I have not beaten the first game. Second game though, that was way easier despite the enemies being more powerful. I just stop bothering with dodging and use items cause 4 characters at once was way too much to handle consistently. Bowser's Inside Story? I'm probably not going to pick up a new copy cause the mini-games are just overly tedious and dumb at times. I like a few puzzles, but come on).

I'd go on, but no, I'd say keep the battle systems always and made the mini-games only optional and mostly rare. That makes 'em just way more playable in the end. No awkward battle mechanics. Ugh. I want some experience back too, but I don't feel experience matters if there's actual ways to increase your abilities by going through battles overall. To me, Sticker Star and Color Splash blatantly had it by giving you more options to buy, etc. Again, I'll call it shallow like it is(though Origami King having equipment eliminates the shallow part, imo), but I like it nice and simple. Though that's part of what made PM great, since you could only level up a stat at a time regardless. HP didn't go up with any other stat, in any of the other games(badge use aside, of course).

The big reason I even enjoyed Paper Mario is that it had a really cool battle system that felt worth it in every iteration of the normal rpg ones(so all but Super Paper Mario), and the 3DS and Wii U games had a ton of soul on their own, especially with the Thing Cards, that made me outright love the series. To note, when I say awkward battle mechanics, I mean things like having to "paint the cards" isn't fun. That's the main reason why the battles felt tedious, due to that mechanic alone. That's why you would level up your paint, to get more so you can handle a longer battle easier.

(I hope I spaced them out well enough).

......Oh that's who you are rofl.


.....Man, I wish Smashboards had a "Prior alias'" thing. The minute someone changes their name, I completely don't recognize them.

 

[PLATINUM7]

I feel like I'm an oddity that liked the OG Paper Mario more than TTYD.


I think that TTYD is the better game overall, but replaying TTYD is tedious in a lot of parts. Chapter 4, Chapter 3 and Chapter 7.....? are all backtracking nightmares or gauntlets like the Glitz Pit. It's the better game as a whole, but I just kinda liked how straightforward, and how little back tracking, there was in the OG.

I prefer the original more than TTYD as well.

Of course peak Paper Mario is this

 

[Shroob]

I prefer the original more than TTYD as well.

Of course peak Paper Mario is this

Super to me is hands down the best plot.


...I mean, it was more or less a plot driven game. Its story had to have been at the very least competent, and imo, it delivered on it.