Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[Will]

If Smash HAD to get another Final Fantasy Rep, who would be the best character to get it? I would honestly think Noctis or Yuna.

Yuna? The chick from X? I expected Lightning, Terra, or even Sephiroth, but why her?

Also, Warrior of Light.

 

[ToddCam]

SO NEW QUESTION FOR YOU GUYS!

If Smash HAD to get another Final Fantasy Rep, who would be the best character to get it? I would honestly think Noctis or Yuna.

Yuna

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

SO NEW QUESTION FOR YOU GUYS!

If Smash HAD to get another Final Fantasy Rep, who would be the best character to get it? I would honestly think Noctis or Yuna.

If they stick to FF7, Tifa.

If they don't, I imagine Noctis or Yuna have a fair shot.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Also, Warrior of Light.

Make it plural and you could have a fun team character.

"Who are we getting from Final Fantasy?"
"The entire party from Final Fantasy I"

 

[Will]

Make it plural and you could have a fun team character.

"Who are we getting from Final Fantasy?"
"The entire party from Final Fantasy I"

I was saying WoL because of Dissidia but that also works, I'll root for that too.

 

[Digital Hazard]

You know... I always considered the whole thing that people thought about that Byleth should be a Pokémon Trainer-esque character with the House Leaders to be pretty dumb from both the aspects of making the character accurate to canon and most importantly from the development resources management perspective.

With that said, I just realized that there is a Fire Emblem character who would work in that way; a non-combatant that stays in the background and commands others what to do, and one who comes from a very succesful instalment that is still maintained to this day.

I can imagine it two ways: The first is we go full Pokémon Trainer and do have three characters to swap from, those being the Askr trio, Alfonse, Sharena and Anna.

The other is to have a full summon moveset, think Duck Hunt's Wild Gunmen, but applied to everything; summoning different characters to do stuff.

Do I think this will happen? Of course not, there's so much resources that would be put into Kiran as a fighter in either way, with the former they would have to develop 3 full characters, and for the latter they would have make a whole bunch of high quality models of various FE characters to just perform one animation; the way I can see saving most time with the latter would be reusing the FE characters we have in Smash already and even then that would look messy, so not an option imo.

Even so, it's justa fun thought I had.

Reminder.







What makes Ganon so different?

I mean, if anything the real problem is...

And I highly doubt they will make bosses playable characters via DLC, Ridley had to wait 2 games and be shrunk down.

 

[Will]

Yuna

Yuna

Good lord did I miss a Yuna convention? What's the hype of Yuna all about? I never touched X to be honest so that's probably a start

 

[zeldasmash]

SO NEW QUESTION FOR YOU GUYS!

If Smash HAD to get another Final Fantasy Rep, who would be the best character to get it? I would honestly think Noctis or Yuna.

I think Sephiroth and Tifa are the likeliest bests for a new FF character, especially if it's just FF7.

If other FF's are allowed, Noctis, Terra, Black Mage, Moogle and Lightning are likely (though I hope it's not Lightning...).

 

[Evil Trapezium]

SO NEW QUESTION FOR YOU GUYS!

If Smash HAD to get another Final Fantasy Rep, who would be the best character to get it? I would honestly think Noctis or Yuna.

Oh phew. I misread that as if we had to have another Fire Emblem rep.

Anyway, I think the next Final Fantasy rep should either be Zidane Tribal or Squall Leonhart.

 

[Will]

Reminder.







What makes Ganon so different?

From a series with seven characters that only comprise of three of the same characters, I would rather much see something new than Ganon-without-the-dorf. Tingle, Ghirahim (His Smash 4 support is what brought me to this website years ago), Midna, Skull Kid, Impa, a Hyrule Warriors character, or anyone else I'm missing. I get that Ganon has a unique style and moveset possibilities, but there's more to this series than those three characters, and I'd rather much see a new face than a different version of the same face.

Though I guess you could say there's more to Fire Emblem than what Smash presents, also. People got their preferences at the end of the day.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

I can imagine it two ways: The first is we go full Pokémon Trainer and do have three characters to swap from, those being the Askr trio, Alfonse, Sharena and Anna.

The other is to have a full summon moveset, think Duck Hunt's Wild Gunmen, but applied to everything; summoning different characters to do stuff.

Do I think this will happen? Of course not, there's so much resources that would be put into Kiran as a fighter in either way, with the former they would have to develop 3 full characters, and for the latter they would have make a whole bunch of high quality models of various FE characters to just perform one animation; the way I can see saving most time with the latter would be reusing the FE characters we have in Smash already and even then that would look messy, so not an option imo.

Broke: Having Kiran in the background.
Woke: "For his Neutral Special, he wields a gun" *Kiran proceeds to shoot anime girls at people*

 

[Mushroomguy12]

SO NEW QUESTION FOR YOU GUYS!

If Smash HAD to get another Final Fantasy Rep, who would be the best character to get it? I would honestly think Noctis or Yuna.

Terra, Tidus/Yuna, Cecil, Lightning, Tifa, or Warriors of Light.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

...I'd rather much see a new face than a different version of the same face.

But it is a different face. So there! You have been foiled by the power of my logic! MUAHAHAHAHAHHAHA!!!

 

[Will]

But it is a different face. So there! You have been foiled by the power of my logic! MUAHAHAHAHAHHAHA!!!

NOOOOO MY REDDIT KARMA PLEASE DONT DOWNVOTE ME I HAVE A REPUTATION TO PROTE-

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA​

 

[Perkilator]

SO NEW QUESTION FOR YOU GUYS!

If Smash HAD to get another Final Fantasy Rep, who would be the best character to get it? I would honestly think Noctis or Yuna.

I said this a few pages back:

You know...I'm actually starting to feel open to the idea of Sephiroth.

Getting the the Rathalos treatment, that is (i.e. base Sephiroth as an Assist Trophy, and Safer Sephiroth as a boss).

 

[Curious Villager]

I think the main difference is that no one was requesting ZSS, Toon Link, or Sheik as if there was a hole in the roster without them.

They're all-stars, but that's because they're the same character.

>No one was requesting Toon Link

Guess I'm a no one. Nice to know...

 

[Koopaul]

The only member of the original 12 that I see getting cut is Jigglypuff. Everyone else is far too beloved, and to be honest, I feel like more people would miss the balloon Pokémon than everyone suspects. "Buff the Puff" wasn't exactly a small movement (for lack of a better term) iirc.

There are also characters that don't need, or really shouldn't have redone movesets. I'm sure a reimagined version of Pikachu would pleasantly surprise everyone, but at the same time, Pikachu is not one of the characters people talk about when talking about archaic feeling characters. Further down the scale, could you really imagine Captain Falcon doing anything radically different from what he does now? What would he do? His moveset wasn't based off of anything in the first place and he still doesn't have any workable source material. And then there's characters like Fox and Marth who don't have much source material to work with for a redesign, and on top of this, their movesets are not only iconic to them, but to platform fighters as a whole not unlike how the shoto archetype finds its way into a ton of other fighting games. For characters like these, I'd be willing to bet that people would be happier if they weren't changed at all than if they were made to be completely different. That's not to say you couldn't give them a new attack or two to spice things up, but a full redesign is off the table for them in my opinion.

There's also some characters who are already perfect like Ryu and Ken, but I'm sure nobody's suggesting they get a redesign.

I don't think you're understand what I'm getting at. After Ultimate, after "Everyone is Here" no one is going to be happy seeing their character they love be cut or remade from the ground up. Someone is going to be immensely upset. We also know that it is impossible to make a roster anywhere close to being the way it is now. Sakurai himself said that this will never happen again.

Much like when a story hits in impassable roadblock and it cannot progress they decide to reboot the story and take it in a new direction. The same must be done with the roster. It's reached a point where it cannot be improved on in the next title it can only get worse from here. No one is going to like their character cut, so that mean all the characters must be cut. The roster and the characters themselves must be rebuilt from the ground up. That's the the only way it's fair. That's the only direction they can go.

Like someone said, people were enraged to see Ice Climbers gone. It's especially painful when your character of choice is gone but other characters remain. And believe it or not there are people who acrually like Falcondorf and would be upset to see him reworked. But if everyone was gone and everyone was different then we'd be dealing with a truly new era of Smash and any feelings or traditions we held on to for 20 years would be done. We'd open up new doors and new traditions.

 

[DarthEnderX]

Reminder.







What makes Ganon so different?

Well A. Unlike Zelda and Link, Ganon is actually the same character in every Zelda game.

And B. None of those should have happened anyway(and most of them originally didn't, since they started out as tranformations), and just because Nintendo screwed it up 4 times already(5 actually counting Dr. Mario), doesn't mean they should screw up again.

If Smash HAD to get another Final Fantasy Rep, who would be the best character to get it?

Black Mage or Sephiroth.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

>No one was requesting Toon Link

Guess I'm a no one. Nice to know...

I'm guessing it was a low key set of wants.

Especially seeing as how Young Link was already there.

Sheik probably had some popularity on her own too. She was cool. ZSS, not so much. She was designed to be a super weak character, and didn't actually do much in the games like Samus did. Dark Samus had a little popularity before Brawl, but Ridley had a lottttttt. Not that Sakurai saw much of that till years later, heh.

 

[Aetheri]

SO NEW QUESTION FOR YOU GUYS!

If Smash HAD to get another Final Fantasy Rep, who would be the best character to get it? I would honestly think Noctis or Yuna.

If it were up to me, Tifa.

If it were up to Nintendo, probably Terra.

If it were up to Square either Lightning or Noctis.

 

[Curious Villager]

I'm guessing it was a low key set of wants.

Especially seeing as how Young Link was already there.

Sheik probably had some popularity on her own too. She was cool. ZSS, not so much. She was designed to be a super weak character, and didn't actually do much in the games like Samus did. Dark Samus had a little popularity before Brawl, but Ridley had a lottttttt. Not that Sakurai saw much of that till years later, heh.

If I recall, Toon Link was apparently a fairly popular request in Japan back during the Brawl era.

He had different nicknames though, such as "Cell-Shaded Link" "Wind Waker Link" or "Cat Eyed Link" as he was initially known for in Japan.

The support was there, granted nowhere near as much as Midna was in the west but he had his fans. (Similar to Wolf and how he was largely overshadowed by Krystal and all)
I suppose people expected him to just be a redesigned Young Link if anything, much like how they redesigned Link from his Ocarina of Time design to Twilight Princess.

 

[AceAttorney9000]

SO NEW QUESTION FOR YOU GUYS!

If Smash HAD to get another Final Fantasy Rep, who would be the best character to get it? I would honestly think Noctis or Yuna.

Given the choice, I think any of the following would be a good candidate for another Final Fantasy character...

• Warrior of Light (Final Fantasy I)
• Black Mage (Final Fantasy I)
• Garland (Final Fantasy I)
• Chocobo (Final Fantasy II)
• Moogle (Final Fantasy III)
• Cecil (Final Fantasy IV)
• Kain (Final Fantasy IV)
• Terra (Final Fantasy VI)

 

[cj.]

SO NEW QUESTION FOR YOU GUYS!

If Smash HAD to get another Final Fantasy Rep, who would be the best character to get it? I would honestly think Noctis or Yuna.

Terra

 

[Cosmic77]

I don't think you're understand what I'm getting at. After Ultimate, after "Everyone is Here" no one is going to be happy seeing their character they love be cut or remade from the ground up. Someone is going to be immensely upset. We also know that it is impossible to make a roster anywhere close to being the way it is now. Sakurai himself said that thos will never happen again. Much like when a story hits in impassable roadblock they decide to reboot it and take it in a new direction the same must be done with the roster. No one is going to like their character cut, so that mean all the characters must be cut. The roster and the characters themselves must be rebuilt from the ground up. That's the the only way it's fair. That's the only direction they can go. Like someone said, people were enraged to see Ice Climbers gone. It's especially painful when your character of choice is gone but other characters remain. And believe it or not there are people who acrually like Falcondorf and would be upset to see him reworked. But if everyone was gone and everyone was different then we'd be dealing with a truly new era of Smash and any feelings or traditions we held on to for 20 years would be done. We'd open up new doors and new traditions.

There are some things that work so well that they don't need to be rebooted. For example, if they ever made "Ultimate Mario Kart" and brought back literally every character and almost every track, then of course the next installment would feel weird. That doesn't necessarily mean it needs to be rebranded entirely though.

I know cuts are hard, but I'd rather get a Smash game that's got a lot of stuff from previous games than to just cut all old content entirely and start from the ground up because of the mentality that a bunch of characters getting cut warrants them all being either remade or cut as well. There's a lot more to Smash than the number of characters on the roster, and that's something people will come to understand soon enough.

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

SO NEW QUESTION FOR YOU GUYS!

If Smash HAD to get another Final Fantasy Rep, who would be the best character to get it? I would honestly think Noctis or Yuna.

Black Mage.

But I’m not talking about the Virgin FF1 Mage I’m talking the Chad FFXIV Black Mage.

 

[CosmicQuark]

Reminder.







What makes Ganon so different?

I’m fine with them being back in because “Everyone is here.” Beyond that, for new characters, particularly a very limited number in the final Fighter’s Pass, I want at the very least all new characters (and not just moveset wise), if not all new series for the rest of Ultimate.

However, for an all new game? Absolutely. Sakurai said it was between starting from scratch with a third of the base roster (~30 characters) or bringing everyone back. I’m glad they went with the latter because, even though I’m not a fan of derivative unique characters, it also means all of my favorites are back. But if they are starting from scratch, do it properly. If Ganon returns, make him a wholly unique character (I’d leave it to the fans to know how, I would think adding magic is a big component from what I’ve read).

I’d even like transformational characters, where Ganon transforms into Ganondorf, and Bowser transforms into Giga Bowser. Seeing that mod with Giga Bowser definitely makes the idea interesting, though obviously scaled down like Ridley. I can’t imagine Smash scaling down the roster by that much and still keeping characters similar to how they are now—must be a major revamp. Otherwise make it an Ultimate-lite with “almost everyone is back”.

 

[cool6012]

Two issues with this. His Arms can extend but he doesn't use them in the game. If that's the only thing keeping Biff out too then Twintelle is gone too since she uses her hair

Twintelle has ARMS, they're her hair. I don't know why people keep trying to do this whole "Gotcha" thing with her and her hair. Regardless of if she's inor not the hair isn't the issue.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

If I recall, Toon Link was apparently a fairly popular request in Japan back during the Brawl era.

He had different nicknames though, such as "Cell-Shaded Link" "Wind Waker Link" or "Cat Eyed Link" as he was initially known for in Japan.

The support was there, granted nowhere near as much as Midna was in the west but he had his fans. (Similar to Wolf and how he was largely overshadowed by Krystal and all)
I suppose people expected him to just be a redesigned Young Link if anything, much like how they redesigned Link from his Ocarina of Time design to Twilight Princess.

Funny thing is Young Link's data was used to help create Toon Link. So it kind of literally happened, just that Link/Ganondorf/Zelda/Sheik are not treated as "new" characters either.

It probably helped only one of them had an all new design. Ganondorf in TP and OOT are different in speed, but clearly have the same bodyshape, as do the others. So that might be why as well. Toon Link is akin to Isabelle, a very different bodyshape. It's too bad Ganondorf lost all his speed, though. Still hell as fun to play as regardless of that. >.>

 

[SirCamp]

SO NEW QUESTION FOR YOU GUYS!

If Smash HAD to get another Final Fantasy Rep, who would be the best character to get it? I would honestly think Noctis or Yuna.

The fact that no one ever says Vivi and yet Black Mage is such a common suggestion boggles me. Vivi would be a perfect representative for black mages AND would rep the amazing FFIX. Or we could just get Freya because Freya is also amazing. But that will never happen.

Regardless I will not stand for this FFIX erasure!

 

[Will]

The fact that no one ever says Vivi and yet Black Mage is such a common suggestion boggles me. Vivi would be a perfect representative for black mages AND would rep the amazing FFIX. Or we could just get Freya because Freya is also amazing. But that will never happen.

Regardless I will not stand for this FFIX erasure!

Meanwhile, you choose to erase the first game and its influence like it never happened.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

If I recall, Toon Link was apparently a fairly popular request in Japan back during the Brawl era.

He had different nicknames though, such as "Cell-Shaded Link" "Wind Waker Link" or "Cat Eyed Link" as he was initially known for in Japan.

The support was there, granted nowhere near as much as Midna was in the west but he had his fans. (Similar to Wolf and how he was largely overshadowed by Krystal and all)
I suppose people expected him to just be a redesigned Young Link if anything, much like how they redesigned Link from his Ocarina of Time design to Twilight Princess.

Wolf was more or less even with Krystal in terms of western requests. were within the top 3.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

I don't think you're understand what I'm getting at. After Ultimate, after "Everyone is Here" no one is going to be happy seeing their character they love be cut or remade from the ground up. Someone is going to be immensely upset. We also know that it is impossible to make a roster anywhere close to being the way it is now. Sakurai himself said that this will never happen again.

Much like when a story hits in impassable roadblock and it cannot progress they decide to reboot the story and take it in a new direction. The same must be done with the roster. It's reached a point where it cannot be improved on in the next title it can only get worse from here. No one is going to like their character cut, so that mean all the characters must be cut. The roster and the characters themselves must be rebuilt from the ground up. That's the the only way it's fair. That's the only direction they can go.

Like someone said, people were enraged to see Ice Climbers gone. It's especially painful when your character of choice is gone but other characters remain. And believe it or not there are people who acrually like Falcondorf and would be upset to see him reworked. But if everyone was gone and everyone was different then we'd be dealing with a truly new era of Smash and any feelings or traditions we held on to for 20 years would be done. We'd open up new doors and new traditions.

Fighting games aren't the same as everything else though. Even if you completely reboot the entire roster, you can't just throw out everyone. You still have to respect the series's history. There's also the fact that a character's mechanics can become synonymous with the character itself. Imagine if Marth lost his tipper mechanic or Captain Falcon lost his Falcon Punch. That'd be the weirdest crap ever, and it isn't like Guilty Gear where you can explain such a mechanical change by redesigning the character.

There's also the fact that as a crossover fighter meant to celebrate gaming, a lot of the character picks would be exactly the same unless you went "gaming icons only, one to two characters per franchise" (which is much even less feasible than bringing back series mainstays and so much more of a risk from a business standpoint that I don't think Nintendo would even go for it).

The best way to reboot Super Smash Bros. would just be to trim the fat of the roster, keeping just those required to represent each series involved as well as series mainstays, and a few incredibly popular picks like Banjo & Kazooie if you can fit them in among the newcomers (it's worth noting that by removing a ton of characters, the number of possible newcomers from pre-existing series drops as well due to each series having a hierarchy of characters that they need: you can't add Waluigi if Wario isn't in the game). Beyond the roster, something needs to shake up the gameplay. This could be in the form of Vs. style assists, Street Fighter style super moves, or whatever. Just something that's new that, years down the line, nobody could ever picture the series without. Then, you make sure there's a bunch of different modes both new and returning that gives players variety when playing the game.

TLDR: Major changes will be necessary in the next game, but you can't just throw away the series's history like that.

 

[Curious Villager]

Wolf was more or less even with Krystal in terms of western requests. were within the top 3.

Really? I though Krystal was more popular by a larger degree during Brawl...

Though that may have been because people where largely pushing for more female characters in Smash at the time, making her fans more vocal and all..
In large part due to one of Sakurai's interviews in regards to Zero Suit Samus and us largely only having Peach, Zelda and Samus (and Jigglypuff & Nana if you count them) and their alter ego's at the time...

 

[cool6012]

Well A. Unlike Zelda and Link, Ganon is actually the same character in every Zelda game.

And B. None of those should have happened anyway(and most of them originally didn't, since they started out as tranformations), and just because Nintendo screwed it up 4 times already(5 actually counting Dr. Mario), doesn't mean they should screw up again.

LMAO You can't be serious. Yes Ganon is Ganondorf but not only do they not resemble each other at all, they also have completely different fighting styles. it wouldn't be a screw-up to add them and to even think that when smash has done this multiple times now is laughable.

 

[Iko MattOrr]

For a Final Fantasy rep I would make a gimmick character that consists in the party of FF3. All of them with a different class (including black and white mages). I'm not sure how to make 4 characters work at once though... but it would be interesting if they fight by helping each other with their different skills (like, the white mage heals the party members who have low HP, the black mage uses ranged attacks, the warrior does the melee combat and... I don't know, maybe a Ninja? What could it do).

 

[Idon]

(like, the white mage heals the party members who have low HP

Lemme tell you right now that healing in fighting games is never ever fun to fight against.

 

[Garteam]

I don't think you're understand what I'm getting at. After Ultimate, after "Everyone is Here" no one is going to be happy seeing their character they love be cut or remade from the ground up. Someone is going to be immensely upset. We also know that it is impossible to make a roster anywhere close to being the way it is now. Sakurai himself said that this will never happen again.

Much like when a story hits in impassable roadblock and it cannot progress they decide to reboot the story and take it in a new direction. The same must be done with the roster. It's reached a point where it cannot be improved on in the next title it can only get worse from here. No one is going to like their character cut, so that mean all the characters must be cut. The roster and the characters themselves must be rebuilt from the ground up. That's the the only way it's fair. That's the only direction they can go.

Like someone said, people were enraged to see Ice Climbers gone. It's especially painful when your character of choice is gone but other characters remain. And believe it or not there are people who acrually like Falcondorf and would be upset to see him reworked. But if everyone was gone and everyone was different then we'd be dealing with a truly new era of Smash and any feelings or traditions we held on to for 20 years would be done. We'd open up new doors and new traditions.

Not entirely sure how a Smash Bros. game without Mario, Link, or Kirby would work.

 

[Iko MattOrr]

Lemme tell you right now that healing in fighting games is never ever fun to fight against.

Yeah but maybe it's not literal healing, maybe they have an HP gauge separated from the %, and if they all run out of HP you remain with only the warrior and a weaker moveset. I didn't think much about how to make them work, it's just an idea.

 

[Will]

Yeah but maybe it's not literal healing, maybe they have an HP gauge separated from the %, and if they all run out of HP you remain with only the warrior and a weaker moveset. I didn't think much about how to make them work, it's just an idea.

imagine going from S tier to F tier so quickly in a match

 

[dezeray112]

SO NEW QUESTION FOR YOU GUYS!

If Smash HAD to get another Final Fantasy Rep, who would be the best character to get it? I would honestly think Noctis or Yuna.

I would go for Final Fantasy X's Tidus.