Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Aight, Bet.

*laughs at Mega Man with a machine gun*
*realizes that they have the same artstyle*
*questions why Mega Man X Dive has a modern day machine gun, as it is out of place in both the Mega Man and Mega Man X series*

 

[Knight Dude]

If it were up to me, Tifa.

If it were up to Nintendo, probably Terra.

If it were up to Square either Lightning or Noctis.

I'd also shill for Terra. A more "traditional" FF style character, with magic and stuff like that could be cool. And FF6 is one of the other highly regarded titles.

Lemme tell you right now that healing in fighting games is never ever fun to fight against.

"BEATS IN MY HEAD!"

 

[Jomosensual]

SO NEW QUESTION FOR YOU GUYS!

If Smash HAD to get another Final Fantasy Rep, who would be the best character to get it? I would honestly think Noctis or Yuna.

Sephiroth easily for me. Tifa would be good too but Sephiroth feels like the biggest standout

 

[Rie Sonomura]

SO NEW QUESTION FOR YOU GUYS!

If Smash HAD to get another Final Fantasy Rep, who would be the best character to get it? I would honestly think Noctis or Yuna.

Terra!

 

[Koopaul]

PeridotGX

I see people create rosters for a rebooted Smash and it still looks like they are designing the roster based on the previous rosters. You need to approach a reboot as if the past games didn't exist. A lot of veterans in Smash are just there because of how the series evolved over the years. They were there due to the circumstances of the time and it carried over. But this isn't an evolution, it's a genesis. If a Smash Bros game was made today, who would be in it? I hate to say it but characters like Chibi-Robo would not be on there. Why would they be?

 

[Digital Hazard]

If it were up to Nintendo, probably Terra.

I honestly doubt this. Remember Nintendo was technically the ones to choose Joker even if the only Persona games in their systems are two 3DS spinoffs.

I'm not dissing in FFVI, but imo they're more likely to pick a more popular protagonist.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

I gotta admit.

I know we as Smash fans love to play as villains, but I hate it when Smash fans seek obscure villains just to add more villains on the roster.

Like we don't need a Pikmin or Punch Out villain or a random FE Villain. Putting them in feels like a bad attempt to fill a quota that frankly shouldn't exist. Not every franchise can or should have a villain. Not every worthwhile franchise even has a villain.

The villains and antagonists we have in Smash are all major characters in their franchises. They got in BECAUSE they weren't just obscure or filling a quota.



The only one I could see being an outlier is but that's mostly because it was meant to be a fun thing for the developers. Also, Plant isn't obscure in the slightest.

 

[Evil Trapezium]

I think a reboot roster would have to do something very different from all previous games, it can't just be "Ultimate, but less". It would probably either be a gameplay change, a massive roster shake-up, or both. This roster I made awhile ago is about what I think a reboot roster should be. characters in red are newcomers, characters in green are veterans who got a major moveset overhaul.View attachment 274769
Yes, that's a lot of cuts (I lost both of my mains) and some of the cut characters are series staples, but there are a bunch of new characters to make up for it. There's an actual reason to play it instead of Ultimate, unlike most reboot rosters I see.

Your objective Smash Bros reboot character roster is essentially lose two of your mains but then get every character that you want in the game.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

I mean, if anything the real problem is...

And I highly doubt they will make bosses playable characters via DLC, Ridley had to wait 2 games and be shrunk down.

I'm talking about the Classic Ganon.

Spoiler

You know the one with the trident.

 

[PeridotGX]

okay, you all win. the next smash game should just be Ultimate, but with less characters. Nothing to replace them, to make it worth buying.

 

[Digital Hazard]

I gotta admit.

I know we as Smash fans love to play as villains, but I hate it when Smash fans seek obscure villains just to add more villains on the roster.

Like we don't need a Pikmin or Punch Out villain or a random FE Villain. Putting them in feels like a bad attempt to fill a quota that frankly shouldn't exist. Not every franchise can or should have a villain. Not every worthwhile franchise even has a villain.

The villains and antagonists we have in Smash are all major characters in their franchises. They got in BECAUSE they weren't just obscure or filling a quota.



The only one I could see being an outlier is but that's mostly because it was meant to be a fun thing for the developers. Also, Plant isn't obscure in the slightest.

To this day, I'm sure it will forever trigger me how Smash considers Dark Pit a villain.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

To this day, I'm sure it will forever trigger me how Smash considers Dark Pit a villain.

That's why I brought up antagonists.

I consider to be heroes or neutral.

But they were antagonists at least once.

 

[Knight Dude]

I think the main issue here is that Steve, Banjo and Master Chief all have enough merit to get in and are all realistic options (ignoring the fact that Banjo is in).

It makes it really hard to tell who should be first and it usually boils down to personal taste.

The answer should be yet another Rare character. Fulgore. And anyone who says Conker eats Soup with their hands.

Rash is also an acceptable answer.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

okay, you all win. the next smash game should just be Ultimate, but with less characters. Nothing to replace them, to make it worth buying.

That wasn't what people were saying.

They were just saying they didn't like those roster choices. A balance can be achieved.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

You need to approach a reboot as if the past games didn't exist.

No. Not at all. You cannot pretend that all previous entries in a fighting game series do not exist when building a roster. 99% of fans will hate it. Guaranteed. And that's if it's a better competitive game than Melee.

Besides, you know what that roster would look like? This, but organized better:
(whoever the latest Fire Emblem protagonist is), (whoever the latest Xenoblade Chronicles character is), (a character from a game Nintendo feels like promoting)

 

[Knight Dude]

okay, you all win. the next smash game should just be Ultimate, but with less characters. Nothing to replace them, to make it worth buying.

Don't feel too bad, some ideas were pretty alright. K.K Slider being a music/instrument based character could be a fun enough gimmick. Besides, I've had some of my ideas shot down before too, like preferring Sub-Zero over Scorpion and stuff like that.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

I suppose this is one of those times where we piled on someone again.

 

[Mushroomguy12]

No. Not at all. You cannot pretend that all previous entries in a fighting game series do not exist when building a roster. 99% of fans will hate it. Guaranteed.

See Exhibit A: Marvel vs Capcom Infinite.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

To this day, I'm sure it will forever trigger me how Smash considers Dark Pit a villain.

He did oppose and directly plot for Pit's death for a good chunk of the game, so while not a villain (he's pretty neutral outside of what I said), he's still an antagonist.

The problem is that Smash fans tend to see "villain" and "antagonist" as being the same word when it's clearly not the case.

okay, you all win. the next smash game should just be Ultimate, but with less characters. Nothing to replace them, to make it worth buying.

That's not what we're saying.

"Ultimate with less characters" can absolutely work if the roster we get is filled with new ways to play and the game itself actually has a bunch of stuff Ultimate can't offer, like an online that isn't absolute trash.

Just look at Marvel vs Capcom 3. From its predecessor, which had 52 characters, the original MvC3 was reduced to 38 with DLC, but out of these 38, only 16 of them were actually returning from MvC2, with one of these 16 even having a moveset so wildly different that she could also count as a newcomer.

That's 36 cuts, 70% of the entire MvC2 roster getting snapped, and even if you add up the 12 characters UMvC3 added, only Hiryu was an actual veteran of the series, with the other 11 being newcomers. So MvC2 got an INSANE amount of cuts.

What was done to make up for it? Add an absolutely insane amount of fresh new faces that are either classic that somehow never got any spotlight before or characters that simply didn't even exist in 2000 yet are still very important to either company (well... X-23 is the only Marvel addition that debuted in the 2000s, but you get my point).

The result is that MvC3's cast may as well be one of the most solid and complete rosters that a crossover game not named Smash Ultimate has ever seen, as the vast majority of the cuts were either joke characters or simply had no more relevance in 2011, and the newcomers we've gotten came from all sorts of places.

And even outside of the roster, changes were made to make Marvel 3 feel fresh. Completely changing the artstyle by dropping sprites entirely, having a very solid presentation that's themed around comic books to really sell on the Marvel aspect, simplifying the button layout from a limb-based system to a simpler Light-Medium-Heavy scheme that has stuck to the franchise and even influenced other games such as Dragon Ball FighterZ...

This is how I see a Smash reboot happen, although not to the same extreme as Marvel 3; remove most characters that are simply there for the sake of being there (while still keeping household names like Captain Falcon), add a bunch of fresh new faces from franchises both new and old (but not too much emphasis on the old because they still gotta market the game to casual audiences who may not know what the hell Golden Sun or SMRPG is) and give a lot of changes to the gameplay that are actually good instead of making a bull**** buffer.

 

[cj.]

I honestly doubt this. Remember Nintendo was technically the ones to choose Joker even if the only Persona games in their systems are two 3DS spinoffs.

I'm not dissing in FFVI, but imo they're more likely to pick a more popular protagonist.

Yeah, but Terra is one of the most popular FF protaginists

 

[skylanders fan]

Just for a marketing standpoint I can’t see nintendo thinking it’s a good idea to get rid of 70% off the roster and selling it as a reboot a spin-off could work but with how big Ultimate is I can’t see them advertising the next one like “its all new movesets for only some of the characters from the last smash, oh and everyone got cut”

 

[RileyXY1]

I gotta admit.

I know we as Smash fans love to play as villains, but I hate it when Smash fans seek obscure villains just to add more villains on the roster.

Like we don't need a Pikmin or Punch Out villain or a random FE Villain. Putting them in feels like a bad attempt to fill a quota that frankly shouldn't exist. Not every franchise can or should have a villain. Not every worthwhile franchise even has a villain.

The villains and antagonists we have in Smash are all major characters in their franchises. They got in BECAUSE they weren't just obscure or filling a quota.



The only one I could see being an outlier is but that's mostly because it was meant to be a fun thing for the developers. Also, Plant isn't obscure in the slightest.

I happen to agree with you. I don't think that Smash needs more antagonists.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

See Exhibit A: Marvel vs Capcom Infinite.

Infinite didn't pretend past games didn't exist.

It just copy-pasted Marvel 3's roster, which is pretty much the opposite of pretending it doesn't exist, and didn't even do a good job at it because at least half of them look like they have an addiction to something.

"But X-Men and Doom!"

That I blame the fact that Marvel likely wanted to focus solely on the MCU because we have seen a non-MCU character in the form of Venom... in the DLC.

Also, the devs were utter idiots because yes, I remember the "characters are just functions" controversy they sparked.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

I happen to agree with you. I don't think that Smash needs more antagonists.

The takeaway wasn't that Smash didn't need more antagonists.

It was that we shouldn't just find a random one to fill a quota.

There are some Zelda villains I think could make for great choices because they're important, iconic and popular like Skull Kid or Ghirahim. And even though I ragged on the idea of a "random FE Villain" I think Black Knight could be awesome (though not as an Ike echo, that idea baffles me).

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Just for a marketing standpoint I can’t see nintendo thinking it’s a good idea to get rid of 70% off the roster and selling it as a reboot a spin-off could work but with how big Ultimate is I can’t see them advertising the next one like “its all new movesets for only some of the characters from the last smash, oh and everyone got cut”

The best way this could be done is for us to not get a new Smash game for at least a decade, because then there'd be a treasure trove of new faces to try and make up for the cuts.

If that means it'd skip a console, just port Ultimate with some new modes and hopefully a better online to make up for the wait.

 

[RileyXY1]

The takeaway wasn't that Smash didn't need more antagonists.

It was that we shouldn't just find a random one to fill a quota.

There are some Zelda villains I think could make for great choices because they're important, iconic and popular like Skull Kid or Ghirahim. And even though I ragged on the idea of a "random FE Villain" I think Black Knight could be awesome (though not as an Ike echo, that idea baffles me).

I don't think that every franchise needs a playable villain either.

Just for a marketing standpoint I can’t see nintendo thinking it’s a good idea to get rid of 70% off the roster and selling it as a reboot a spin-off could work but with how big Ultimate is I can’t see them advertising the next one like “its all new movesets for only some of the characters from the last smash, oh and everyone got cut”

They can't just build off of Ultimate because of the hell on earth that is licensing all the 3rd parties.

 

[Icedragonadam]

Honestly I can see Nintendo going the route of other games with Guest characters and just axing all of them for the reboot, and adding like two or three guests newcomer if there's going to be a much smaller roster.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Honestly I can see Nintendo going the route of other games with Guest characters and just axing all of them for the reboot, and adding like two or three guests newcomer if there's going to be a much smaller roster.

I can see many guests being axed but some like Sonic may live through the cuts.

 

[RileyXY1]

The best way this could be done is for us to not get a new Smash game for at least a decade, because then there'd be a treasure trove of new faces to try and make up for the cuts.

If that means it'd skip a console, just port Ultimate with some new modes and hopefully a better online to make up for the wait.

They simply can't port Ultimate without licensing all the 3rd party content. And if they do cut anything the game would bomb because I don't think people would want to buy Ultimate but with less content. It's essentially a licensing hell that I don't see Nintendo doing.

 

[skylanders fan]

They simply can't port Ultimate without licensing all the 3rd party content. And if they do cut anything the game would bomb because I don't think people would want to buy Ultimate but with less content. It's essentially a licensing hell that I don't see Nintendo doing.

Only thing would be if they could make agreement with the 3rd party somehow like offering more dlc characters idk the whole business side of it but they get in Ultimate and no way that was easy

 

[RileyXY1]

Only thing would be if they could make agreement with the 3rd party somehow like offering more dlc characters idk the whole business side of it but they get in Ultimate and no way that was easy

That's basically my point. I don't know if Nintendo would want to go through this licensing hell. A reboot is much easier to do.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

They simply can't port Ultimate without licensing all the 3rd party content. And if they do cut anything the game would bomb because I don't think people would want to buy Ultimate but with less content. It's essentially a licensing hell that I don't see Nintendo doing.

Then Smash would just skip a console before the reboot if they want enough first-party newcomers to not have to fill out the roster with licensing hell.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

I think the easiest way out of the situation is to turn Ultimate into a live service game and just add to it continually.

It seems to be what most people want at this point. The roster is so utterly mind blowing casuals and hardcore fans don't seem to want anything else.

 

[RileyXY1]

Then Smash would just skip a console before the reboot if they want enough first-party newcomers to not have to fill out the roster with licensing hell.

There's already Astral Chain and Ring Fit Adventure to pull from, and Nintendo might make more new IPs in the future along with some classic favorites and new characters from veteran franchises.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

There's already Astral Chain and Ring Fit Adventure to pull from, and Nintendo might make more new IPs in the future along with some classic favorites and new characters from veteran franchises.

Either way, I don't expect to see another Smash game for a very long while, reboot or not.

Because again, having plenty of first-party newcomers from new games and IPs could help make a bigger roster with less licensing.

 

[RileyXY1]

I think the easiest way out of the situation is to turn Ultimate into a live service game and just add to it continually.

It seems to be what most people want at this point. The roster is so utterly mind blowing casuals and hardcore fans don't seem to want anything else.

That also runs the risk of licensing hell as well as risking Sakurai's health. I think that Ultimate's DLC will stop after PF2. I think that cutting down the roster is the best choice.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

That also runs the risk of licensing hell. I think that cutting down the roster is the best choice.

Depends.

Nintendo has the rights for Ultimate.

An expanded re-release may be easier to get the rights for then a new game.

 

[RileyXY1]

Depends.

Nintendo has the rights for Ultimate.

An expanded re-release may be easier to get the rights for then a new game.

I'm talking about all the 3rd parties. They would have to get the rights to all of the 3rd party content (and I mean all of it).

 

[Deleted member]

Kirby should not have any extra characters without it's main three.

"What does a Waddle Dee have to do to get some recognition around here?"

 

[RileyXY1]

Either way, I don't expect to see another Smash game for a very long while, reboot or not.

Because again, having plenty of first-party newcomers from new games and IPs could help make a bigger roster with less licensing.

Also with a reboot, some of the veterans might be so heavily modified that they would feel like newcomers.