Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Lemme tell you right now that healing in fighting games is never ever fun to fight against.

Healing isn't always a nuisance.

Exhibit A:
Exhibit B:
Exhibit C:

Granted, it's not very much health, but the mechanic is there regardless.

 

[Opossum]

LMAO You can't be serious. Yes Ganon is Ganondorf but not only do they not resemble each other at all, they also have completely different fighting styles. it wouldn't be a screw-up to add them and to even think that when smash has done this multiple times now is laughable.

Just because Smash has done it before doesn't mean people are forced to like it or think it's a good idea.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

The fact that no one ever says Vivi and yet Black Mage is such a common suggestion boggles me. Vivi would be a perfect representative for black mages AND would rep the amazing FFIX. Or we could just get Freya because Freya is also amazing. But that will never happen.

Regardless I will not stand for this FFIX erasure!

Freya be like "The worst thing to happen to you is being forgotten" before being forgotten by like 90% of fans

Black Mage.

But I’m not talking about the Virgin FF1 Mage I’m talking the Chad FFXIV Black Mage.

smh NSG doesn't support the Goodest of lads Vivi we unstan

Healing isn't always a nuisance.

Exhibit A:
Exhibit B:
Exhibit C:

Granted, it's not very much health, but the mechanic is there regardless.

Exhibit A is miniscule amounts that can't be spammed.

Exhibit B is possibly one of the worst moves in the game.

Exhibit C is RNG determined and can only do it twice per stock, 10% each time.


A character who's gimmick is healing themselves would be downright infuriating in comparison

 

[SKX31]

Yeah but maybe it's not literal healing, maybe they have an HP gauge separated from the %, and if they all run out of HP you remain with only the warrior and a weaker moveset. I didn't think much about how to make them work, it's just an idea.

imagine going from S tier to F tier so quickly in a match

We do have an example: .

The Stamina mechanic was well-intentioned, but jeez it could affect the PT player at the worst possible moment (80 secs in the field before the active Pokemon was weakened in terms of both damage and knockback - effectively forcing a switch). Then again, Brawl PKMN Trainer has lots of other stuff to worry about. Like Ivy being weak to fire moves (and thus being KOed earlier by Smash's many fire users than Squirtle) and its Back-Air doing 4-5 % total, fresh.

Healing isn't always a nuisance.

Exhibit A:
Exhibit B:
Exhibit C:

Granted, it's not very much health, but the mechanic is there regardless.

Nosferatu can recover more health if Robin's in certain situations:

Every time it does damage, Robin heals for (damage * 0.8) + (diff * 0.02), with "diff" being Robin's current damage minus the victim's damage (which cannot be negative, and updates over time). In SSB4, the healing is multiplied by 1.25x if the opponent is caught from behind. As a result, Robin will heal at least 13% damage if the opponent started with higher damage, and can heal over 40% if Robin has 100% or more damage than the opponent.

Landing Nosferatu OTOH, that's the really tricky part. I agree with Cutie Gwen there - Nosferatu's pretty bad because it's difficult to land in a match. (EDIT: And since it has a huge cooldown.)

 

[SNEKeater]

Yuna? The chick from X? I expected Lightning, Terra, or even Sephiroth, but why her?

Also, Warrior of Light.

Yuna is as important as Tidus in Final Fantasy X even if she's not technically the main character. Maybe even more important than him. Also, she's a pretty popular character in the franchise (plus is not strange at all seeing FFX being number 1 in japanese polls about the best FF games) and a very cool one btw.

I mean I really like Tifa and Aerith, but personally I think Yuna is a lot more interesting as a character. Also, maybe she doesn't fight with her own fists, but summoners are cool as well and she's badass in her own way.
Some people only talk about FFVII and that's partly understandable in the context of Smash, but there are more cool female character beyond Tifa. Besides Yuna you have Terra, Garnet, Ashe, Celes, Rinoa, Faris or Rosa. Some of these girls are more interesting than Tifa & Aerith if you ask me.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

LMAO You can't be serious. Yes Ganon is Ganondorf but not only do they not resemble each other at all, they also have completely different fighting styles. it wouldn't be a screw-up to add them and to even think that when smash has done this multiple times now is laughable.

I agree with our point, but you could word it in a less aggressive manner.

Ganon =/= Ganondorf. They're extremely different characters. The current Ganondorf does slightly resemble how Pig Ganon is a physical warrior with magic... but that's how Ganondorf has always been.

The other variations on Ganon(Puppet Ganon, both ways they refer to Beast Ganon) don't work all that well as proper characters. We have a decent NPC in OOT Ganon, but that doesn't represent how he's also good with magic and weapons, ala ALTTP.

The other one that is very different is Toon Ganondorf/WW Ganondorf(either term works), who is the only canon double sword wielder, but also very fast and doesn't focus at all on magic. The current Ganondorf is definitely a magic user, but focuses on the physical forms of how one can use magic, less so the projectile variant. So that's at least 3 different styles to go with, all unique.

If it helps, I do like the idea of using Ganondorf's previous TP moveset(which focuses on his slow speed, whereas OOT is middle speed) and giving it, with slight differences, to Black Shadow. While keeping the current Ganondorf as well. Black Shadow could reuse Gerudo Dragon in place of Flame Choke or have a darkness effect if needed. I've had a few ideas to improve Ganondorf; Use the Lightning Ball as a chargeable Neutral A. You could still have the stunning effect, and it could be throw about if needed. Since it's not hyper easy to reflect like DMV(and let's be real, if it's not reflectable by weapons, it's not DMV. There's a difference between liberties and a completely unrelated thing), it makes it a useful approach option, since it can stun for a bit. His Wizard's Foot can be redone a bit, where he stabs with his in-game Knife on his ankle instead of the magic. For his Neutral Air, reusing that knife in a similar animation, but with less range, and maybe having the second hit with his sword(so he can dual wield his two weapons perhaps?) in a horizontal move so it resembles the knife's cutting motion could work. You could also find other areas to throw it in, like a second AA jab. Wizard's Foot can also keep the earthquake animation when it lands on the ground from the aerial version, which more or less what makes it stand out quite a bit from Falcon Kick, having different animations, but also power/range and specific elemental effects.

 

[cosmicB]

SO NEW QUESTION FOR YOU GUYS!

If Smash HAD to get another Final Fantasy Rep, who would be the best character to get it? I would honestly think Noctis or Yuna.

Probably Gilgamesh. We need an actual weapon master, not someone with just a few like Byleth.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

SO NEW QUESTION FOR YOU GUYS!

If Smash HAD to get another Final Fantasy Rep, who would be the best character to get it? I would honestly think Noctis or Yuna.

I forgot to answer this a bit ago. Squall Leonhart, no contest. It's my favorite FF game, after all.

 

[Digital Hazard]

SO NEW QUESTION FOR YOU GUYS!

If Smash HAD to get another Final Fantasy Rep, who would be the best character to get it? I would honestly think Noctis or Yuna.

If we're stuck to FFVII? Tifa

If we can get from the rest of the series? Objectively Noctis.

Subjectively a cartoonish Chocobo.

 

[M@R!3]

Yeah but maybe it's not literal healing, maybe they have an HP gauge separated from the %, and if they all run out of HP you remain with only the warrior and a weaker moveset. I didn't think much about how to make them work, it's just an idea.

If the idea is to give the white mage something supportive to do without being either obnoxious or useless, why not base it around the other support spells the class can use? Haste, Protect, Shell, Reflect etc. Buffs are much more workable in a fighting game than healing.

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

Freya be like "The worst thing to happen to you is being forgotten" before being forgotten by like 90% of fans

smh NSG doesn't support the Goodest of lads Vivi we unstan


Exhibit A is miniscule amounts that can't be spammed.

Exhibit B is possibly one of the worst moves in the game.

Exhibit C is RNG determined and can only do it twice per stock, 10% each time.


A character who's gimmick is healing themselves would be downright infuriating in comparison

B-b-but in my defense I’ve never played FFIX.

 

[PeridotGX]

I think a reboot roster would have to do something very different from all previous games, it can't just be "Ultimate, but less". It would probably either be a gameplay change, a massive roster shake-up, or both. This roster I made awhile ago is about what I think a reboot roster should be. characters in red are newcomers, characters in green are veterans who got a major moveset overhaul.

Yes, that's a lot of cuts (I lost both of my mains) and some of the cut characters are series staples, but there are a bunch of new characters to make up for it. There's an actual reason to play it instead of Ultimate, unlike most reboot rosters I see.

 

[MooMew64]

A character whose main gimmick is healing themselves wouldn't be super fun to fight, tbh. I'd much rather get more traditional spellcasters like Robin and Hero.

 

[Dinoman96]

The thought of working with Microsoft for Smash again only to bring in Steve instead of Banjo again...oof

 

[Will]

I think a reboot roster would have to do something very different from all previous games, it can't just be "Ultimate, but less". It would probably either be a gameplay change, a massive roster shake-up, or both. This roster I made awhile ago is about what I think a reboot roster should be. characters in red are newcomers, characters in green are veterans who got a major moveset overhaul.View attachment 274769
Yes, that's a lot of cuts (I lost both of my mains) and some of the cut characters are series staples, but there are a bunch of new characters to make up for it. There's an actual reason to play it instead of Ultimate, unlike most reboot rosters I see.

I don't like this. There are a lot of unnecessary cuts and/or replacements that don't make sense in hindsight. Simon and Isabelle make you salty or something, man? You needed revenge?

Also, who is Jedan? Google gives me absolutely zero answers.

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

I don't like this. There are a lot of unnecessary cuts and/or replacements that don't make sense in hindsight. Simon and Isabelle make you salty or something, man? You needed revenge?

Also, who is Jedan? Google gives me absolutely zero answers.

Jedah. Fire Emblem character.

 

[PeridotGX]

The thought of working with Microsoft for Smash again only to bring in Steve instead of Banjo again...oof

I don't like this. There are a lot of unnecessary cuts and/or replacements that don't make sense in hindsight. Simon and Isabelle make you salty or something, man? You needed revenge?

Also, who is Jedan? Google gives me absolutely zero answers.

I don't hate Simon or Isabelle, and I quite like Banjo. I removed them because the entire point of this roster is to have as many new characters as possible, and that comes at a price.

(Jedah's the main antagonist of Fire emblem: Shadows of Valentia, he can be substituted for pretty much any FE villian.)

 

[Will]

Jedah. Fire Emblem character.

I looked up Fire Emblem wiki first thought, got no results. When I went to Google I got literal Polish results.

 

[Megadoomer]

I don't like this. There are a lot of unnecessary cuts and/or replacements that don't make sense in hindsight. Simon and Isabelle make you salty or something, man? You needed revenge?

Also, who is Jedan? Google gives me absolutely zero answers.

I think it's supposed to be from a Fire Emblem game.

https://fireemblem.fandom.com/wiki/Jedah

My first thought was Jedah from Darkstalkers (I couldn't think of any other characters with that name), but it looked nothing like him.

 

[Will]

(Jedah's the main antagonist of Fire emblem: Shadows of Valentia, he can be substituted for pretty much any FE villian.)

Goddammit it's the one Fire Emblem I never played. Besides, it isn't Gharnef.

I don't hate Simon or Isabelle, and I quite like Banjo. I removed them because the entire point of this roster is to have as many new characters as possible, and that comes at a price.

Sometimes you don't need to be Thanos and look for sacrifices. And what would K.K. Slider even do?

 

[Dalek_Kolt]

The only way I'm accepting a reduced roster in future games is if they drastically overhaul the N64/Gamecube-era fighters they do decide to keep and make the existing clones as differentiated from their counterparts as Luigi and Isabelle are. Ultimate Ganondorf I gave a pass this time around since the theme was "Everyone is here", and, love it or hate it, Falcondorf is as much a part of Smash history as Pichu, Roy, Young Link, Corrin, etc.
If they're going to cut fighters, I want to see a lot of love and care put into those lucky enough to stay.

 

[SirCamp]

Meanwhile, you choose to erase the first game and its influence like it never happened.

I don’t really see how this is FFI erasure considering Vivi is literally a call back to old school FF and the black mages of old. And in choosing Vivi you also have a specific (and beloved) character for those that dislike the idea of a job getting repped rather than a specific character. But this wasn’t even to say that it has to be or even should be Vivi over black mage, just that I was under the impression that Vivi was popular, but he never gets talked about here. I would have expected more people to talk about him given that IX is available on Switch now. But I personally don’t think IX gets enough love anyway so I dunno.

Freya be like "The worst thing to happen to you is being forgotten" before being forgotten by like 90% of fans

 

[Will]

I don’t really see how this is FFI erasure considering Vivi is literally a call back to old school FF and the black mages of old. And in choosing Vivi you also have a specific (and beloved) character for those that dislike the idea of a job getting repped rather than a specific character. But this wasn’t even to say that it has to be or even should be Vivi over black mage, just that I was under the impression that Vivi was popular, but he never gets talked about here. I would have expected more people to talk about him given that IX is available on Switch now. But I personally don’t think IX gets enough love anyway so I dunno.

It was a joke dude, it ain't that deep.

 

[SirCamp]

It was a joke dude, it ain't that deep.

FFIX is always serious business. Plus I’m bored at work, I need drama to keep me awake!

 

[SKX31]

I think a reboot roster would have to do something very different from all previous games, it can't just be "Ultimate, but less". It would probably either be a gameplay change, a massive roster shake-up, or both. This roster I made awhile ago is about what I think a reboot roster should be. characters in red are newcomers, characters in green are veterans who got a major moveset overhaul.
Yes, that's a lot of cuts (I lost both of my mains) and some of the cut characters are series staples, but there are a bunch of new characters to make up for it. There's an actual reason to play it instead of Ultimate, unlike most reboot rosters I see.

I'm not resting until Puff is back on the roster (Iregretnothing).

Goddammit it's the one Fire Emblem I never played. Besides, it isn't Gharnef.

View attachment 274772

Sometimes you don't need to be Thanos and look for sacrifices. And what would K.K. Slider even do?

So, I haven't played any Fire Emblem, but basically Gharnef is Gaston-if-he-was-an-Ancient-Roman-Jock?

Also, K.K would beat people up with his guitar and music. He would also present a perfectly good opportunity to reintroduce sound waves as attacks.

 

[Will]

So, I haven't played any Fire Emblem, but basically Gharnef is Gaston-if-he-was-an-Ancient-Roman-Jock?

Oh no, Gharnef is this dude.

Also, K.K would beat people up with his guitar and music. He would also present a perfectly good opportunity to reintroduce sound waves as attacks

That's fine if they intended him to be referenceless, but I'm asking what he would do to reference Animal Crossing in general as most fighters are referencing their home series nowadays.

 

[skylanders fan]

I just don’t think they will cut the roster to less than 50 at this point if I had to guess/hope we will just get updates to Ultimate and get new characters, story mode and the like heck they could even give you a classic or new move set to each character option or something idk I’d just hate to see so much cuts

 

[Swamp Sensei]

I think a reboot roster would have to do something very different from all previous games, it can't just be "Ultimate, but less". It would probably either be a gameplay change, a massive roster shake-up, or both. This roster I made awhile ago is about what I think a reboot roster should be. characters in red are newcomers, characters in green are veterans who got a major moveset overhaul.View attachment 274769
Yes, that's a lot of cuts (I lost both of my mains) and some of the cut characters are series staples, but there are a bunch of new characters to make up for it. There's an actual reason to play it instead of Ultimate, unlike most reboot rosters I see.

Black Knight is the only Fire Emblem villain who should be considered as he's the only one who made it in the top 100 most popular characters.

Also, I can't believe Shulk is dead.

 

[PeridotGX]

Sometimes you don't need to be Thanos and look for sacrifices. And what would K.K. Slider even do?

I like sacrifices...

K.K Slider would use music for his attacks. He'd use music notes as projectiles (like the Meloetta Pokeball) and could play a tune to alter his stats. a slower tune would make him heavier, slower, and weaker, and a faster tune would make him stronger, faster, and frailer. He could also play a lullaby to put people to sleep, but I don't know about that. He also can use his guitar as a blunt weapon, almost like a club.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

I think a reboot roster would have to do something very different from all previous games, it can't just be "Ultimate, but less". It would probably either be a gameplay change, a massive roster shake-up, or both. This roster I made awhile ago is about what I think a reboot roster should be. characters in red are newcomers, characters in green are veterans who got a major moveset overhaul.View attachment 274769
Yes, that's a lot of cuts (I lost both of my mains) and some of the cut characters are series staples, but there are a bunch of new characters to make up for it. There's an actual reason to play it instead of Ultimate, unlike most reboot rosters I see.

Problems:

• Tetra has no place on a roster without Zelda.
• Kirby should not have any extra characters without it's main three.
• Falco is gotten rid of, but Wolf is not. Since they're about as important as each other, Falco should be the pick as a series staple.
• I get not including Pokémon Trainer because he's three characters in one and roster space is limited, but removing Mewtwo and Charizard for a spinoff character and an old news legendary (without his notable trainer no less) is a poor decision.
• Characters that are pretty important to Fire Emblem like Robin and Ike are gotten rid of in favor of Hector instead of Lyn (Hector may be a decently popular pick, but Lyn is overwhelmingly moreso), and a random villain.
• Larger series like Street Fighter and Xenoblade Chronicles get the axe but smaller ones like Kid Icarus and Pikmin get to stay, and even dead ones get to be added for the first time. Said smaller series don't even have series staples like Mr. Game & Watch. I don't hate smaller series but the smaller the roster gets the less of a place they have on it.

Even if you write off some of these critiques as "oh he's just being a whiny fanboy" you can't deny that a lot of these replacements make 0 sense.

 

[PeridotGX]

Black Knight is the only Fire Emblem villain who should be considered as he's the only one who made it in the top 100 most popular characters.

Also, I can't believe Shulk is dead.

Black Knight would work well and is the objectively better option, I just really wanted a magic user.

Also I'm a ****ing dumbass, I completely forgot about Xenoblade. Delete K.K Slider or Wolf and add Shulk or Rex.

 

[zeldasmash]

The thought of working with Microsoft for Smash again only to bring in Steve instead of Banjo again...oof

I'd feel the same if Steve were to make it over Master Chief.

 

[SKX31]

Oh no, Gharnef is this dude.

That's fine if they intended him to be referenceless, but I'm asking what he would do to reference Animal Crossing in general as most fighters are referencing their home series nowadays.

Oh, I got the completely wrong impression from the pic then.

I'd imagine they'd take slight cues from his songs (like a couple notes from certain songs if applicable) as well as use certain objects like the chair and DJ set. When Isabelle summons stop signs already, why not.

I just don’t think they will cut the roster to less than 50 at this point if I had to guess/hope we will just get updates to Ultimate and get new characters, story mode and the like heck they could even give you a classic or new move set to each character option or something idk I’d just hate to see so much cuts

Yeah, I do agree there. If they choose to go with a Smash 6, then it's probably for the best that they at least have 50 characters because characters are seen as such integral parts of Smash.

I personally wouldn't mind if Ultimate went live service*- wouldn't mind an Ultimate DX either. That said Nintendo's and Sakurai's uncertainty re: the future of Smash post-Ultimate suggests that they're not fully sure which road they want to go down on. I don't blame them for that - whether it's continuing with Ultimate or "resetting" with a Smash 6 it's going to be difficult.

*(This view is fully influenced by the fact that one of my all-time favorites is a live-service game, yes.)

 

[Digital Hazard]

I think a reboot roster would have to do something very different from all previous games, it can't just be "Ultimate, but less". It would probably either be a gameplay change, a massive roster shake-up, or both. This roster I made awhile ago is about what I think a reboot roster should be. characters in red are newcomers, characters in green are veterans who got a major moveset overhaul.View attachment 274769
Yes, that's a lot of cuts (I lost both of my mains) and some of the cut characters are series staples, but there are a bunch of new characters to make up for it. There's an actual reason to play it instead of Ultimate, unlike most reboot rosters I see.

There's... Too many problems I have with this.

1. Why should we have Tetra in a roster that doesn't has Zelda herself?
2. Look, Dark Matter may be awesome, but Meta Knight is a core Kirby character who has been in almost every game, why would DM take priority?
3. K.K. Slider should not get in before the current mascot (Isabelle) or a character that has also been since the beginning but is more important (Tom Nook)
4. The Pokémon choices. That's all.
5. Jedah, of all people.
6. Some more important series like Xenoblade getting the boot while Golden Sun gets in.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

I'd feel the same if Steve were to make it over Master Chief.

I think the main issue here is that Steve, Banjo and Master Chief all have enough merit to get in and are all realistic options (ignoring the fact that Banjo is in).

It makes it really hard to tell who should be first and it usually boils down to personal taste.

 

[DarthEnderX]

LMAO You can't be serious. Yes Ganon is Ganondorf but not only do they not resemble each other at all, they also have completely different fighting styles.

I couldn't care less about any of that. If your pig version of a character that's already in the game means another character that isn't in yet doesn't get to be in the game at all, then you can get allllll the way out of here with that ****.

 

[Koopaul]

Not entirely sure how a Smash Bros. game without Mario, Link, or Kirby would work.

I meant cut the characters as they are now. Mario Link and Kirby would definitely be in it but they'd be a totally new Mario and Kirby that'd have completely new moves and mechanics. That's what I meant by cutting everyone.

Like imagine if Smash wasn't made 20 years ago. What if it was made now? How would Mario's moveset work? Or Kirby's? I think they'd be very different if they were invented today. Yes I think they all need a fresh start. Mario has been the same forever. With the same idle, the same fireball, the same recovery. This would be an oppertunity to change that. Why should these characters be frozen, forever stuck in their niche? A reboot is the oppertunity to shake things up. I'd say most of these legendary icons will be coming back but they wouldn't be the ones you remember.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

I think the main issue here is that Steve, Banjo and Master Chief all have enough merit to get in and are all realistic options (ignoring the fact that Banjo is in).

It makes it really hard to tell who should be first and it usually boils down to personal taste.

Yeah. Even in a roster reset, you could make a sound argument for including any of the three. Banjo & Kazooie are a really popular Super Smash Bros. character and there would be few complaints if they returned, Steve is more popular generally and his inclusion would make waves, and Master Chief's series is one of the most important FPS series out there and is still going strong.

 

[Opossum]

Oh, I got the completely wrong impression from the pic then.

The picture you saw wasn't of Gharnef, but of an NPC villager telling you that Gharnef can't be killed by normal means.

I think a reboot roster would have to do something very different from all previous games, it can't just be "Ultimate, but less". It would probably either be a gameplay change, a massive roster shake-up, or both. This roster I made awhile ago is about what I think a reboot roster should be. characters in red are newcomers, characters in green are veterans who got a major moveset overhaul.View attachment 274769
Yes, that's a lot of cuts (I lost both of my mains) and some of the cut characters are series staples, but there are a bunch of new characters to make up for it. There's an actual reason to play it instead of Ultimate, unlike most reboot rosters I see.

Yeahhhhh not gonna lie, I wouldn't want a game like this at all. It feels like it's trying too hard to be different for the sake of being different while missing the point of why people play Smash to begin with.

 

[Knight Dude]

Captain Falcon is overrated.

There. I said it. Come at me!

Aight, Bet.