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Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

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Scoliosis Jones

Kept you waiting, huh?
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To be fair, our previous character was from a franchise that was neither new or lacking in playable characters. It was only new in the sense that 3H wasn't represented yet, and that's vastly different from an entire franchise not being repped.

"New material" is a very flexible term, and most definitions people have for it are contradicted by either 3H or ARMS.
I mean, we can argue semantics all day, but the fact of the matter is in the content we got in Smash Wii U DLC, Smash Ultimate DLC, and now with ARMS.

It doesn't matter how I word it. Each Challenger Pack featured content that wasn't in Smash before. Even if Byleth is Fire Emblem, nothing from Fire Emblem Three Houses was in the game, nor is Byleth theoretically from the same "world" as the other Fire Emblem characters. It's similar to Pokemon in that it has a new cast every game, set in a different region/setting.

The content was entirely new. It was for every single newcomer pack dating back to Ryu in Wii U.

Now, that doesn't mean it can't happen in a case where what we get isn't "new material". I genuinely expect an upgrade with ARMS. If you ask me, it's either Spring Man or Min Min. That is inherently based on content already in the game, but there's also the fact that ARMS could very well be an exception to the upgrade concept. I think the fact that we're getting ARMS, for the reasons I stated, is telling.

Either way, my wording hardly matters when the Challenger Packs speak for themselves.
 

M@R!3

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I'm not sure about that "Vergeben" leak at the moment. Most of it seems to be based on prior rumors that were already floating around. The only thing on the list that's recent and has anything supporting it is Persona 4 on PC, which was apparently leaked by a Denuvo listing.
 

Nanami77

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I'm not sure about that "Vergeben" leak at the moment. Most of it seems to be based on prior rumors that were already floating around. The only thing on the list that's recent and has anything supporting it is Persona 4 on PC, which was apparently leaked by a Denuvo listing.
Imo, all eyes should be on the PS5 event tomorrow

If there is anything Bloodborne and RE8 related, we should start taking notice of it.
 

The Stoopid Unikorn

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I'm not sure about that "Vergeben" leak at the moment. Most of it seems to be based on prior rumors that were already floating around. The only thing on the list that's recent and has anything supporting it is Persona 4 on PC, which was apparently leaked by a Denuvo listing.
And the listing happened before the "Vergeben" message iirc, so it could still be piggybacking off of that too.
 

Goombaic

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Imo, all eyes should be on the PS5 event tomorrow

If there is anything Bloodborne and RE8 related, we should start taking notice of it.
Those things were already rumored before this supposed leak from Vergeben. I think the Nintendo stuff and Heihachi thing are the only things that haven't been making rounds yet.
 

Perkilator

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Honestly, guys, I think we should stick to just wishing our characters were in the game unless the stars are truly aligning for their playability. If we expect a character to be playable regardless of circumstance (especially if they're not promised), we're only setting ourselves up for disappointment.

For example, I set myself up for disappointment when I hoped for Sora to get in instead of Hero, but I still accepted the latter (in fact, he's one of my favorite characters).
 

Nanami77

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Those things were already rumored before this supposed leak from Vergeben. I think the Nintendo stuff and Heihachi thing are the only things that haven't been making rounds yet.
I knew about the RE8 stuff, but that was the first time I heard anyone mention Bloodborne

(There was the PC Port rumor, but next gen game = port)
 
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M@R!3

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Imo, all eyes should be on the PS5 event tomorrow

If there is anything Bloodborne and RE8 related, we should start taking notice of it.
Bloodborne being at the PS5 event is such a safe bet that I couldn't use it to support this leaks legitimacy. RE8 would be something.

And the listing happened before the "Vergeben" message iirc, so it could still be piggybacking off of that too.
Yep.
 

Scoliosis Jones

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I'm still not convinced of that Vergeben post, or PM, or whatever it is exactly. If it doesn't come directly from a post of his, I'd call it into question.

Otherwise, just like earlier, it's people putting words in his mouth.
 

cool6012

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I don't know how you guys are reaching the conclusion that ARMS is already well represented in smash. There's 5 pngs of the characters, no music, no stages, no characters, and one assist trophy. IMO a franchise is only properly represented once it has a series Icon. ARMS is still a foreign world to smash.
 

Nanami77

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>Tfw when the Vergeben topic gets bumped out of the front page, so a response becomes less likely
 

Verde Coeden Scalesworth

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>Tfw when the Vergeben topic gets bumped out of the front page, so a response becomes less likely
Nope, definitely been first page for a while now.

Vergeben also lives in Germany, so it'll take a while to answer. But it's also important to remember that with his sources, he only lets out information when they're okay with it. You could say it's kind of like an NDA, where only certain stuff is allowed to be said. He's rather protective of his sources and respects their requests. So if he's saying nothing, that means he's not allowed to say any of that information in public.

Sabi has a track record of jumping the gun, so they likely aren't listening to the requests of those insiders who said "to say nothing yet", which is why it's out there. And that's even assuming any of this is real. Vergeben's biggest error was trusting Sabi to actually respect any insiders.
 

Swamp Sensei

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EricTheGamerman

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If we weren't coming up on the end of Smash Ultimate (I mean relatively speaking, these next 5 fighters are clearly going to take forever to actually release lol), I think I'd be more receptive to the whole arguments about expanding existing series, but it's hard to not look at Ultimate's achievements and not wish for them to push it as far as they can. There's still a LOT of series both first party and especially third party that aren't in Smash and would fit very naturally and make additional dream match-ups happen. Especially when we more or less know that we're objectively not going to see this many properties again. Third parties will be subject to some degree of a natural culling due to just the sheer logistics and cost (though they could return as DLC, just definitely not base game) and first parties are naturally going to lose some contenders as well. I don't really see Ice Climbers getting any amount of priority when so many cuts are on the table for example (and to be clear, I'm staunchly against cuts, I just acknowledge we're not getting Ultimate again).

That's in part why it's such a big deal to focus on adding new universes. There's little chance you're going to put Snake up against Cloud or even Ice Climbers up against Little Mac in the future outside of this more specific Smash context. Now, while yes, this can apply to individual fighters as well, but there's also no doubt that entire series tend to hold more sentimental value than individual characters, and getting a franchise in Smash makes an entirely unique dream match-up happen or gives your franchise one last chance to shine in the spotlight (Hell, Sakurai has done more to honor Metal Gear and Casltevania's legacy than Konami has in the past 5 years even beyond Nintendo's own neglected IPs). Characters from new franchises hold more weight because they aren't inherently just bringing themselves as I've said before, but the nostalgia of that franchise, the music you remembered playing in a battle, etc. That doesn't make them inherently better options, but it is important to note that extra value they bring to Smash and for fans.

I think it's also occasionally an underestimated idea of just "cramming franchises into Smash." I mean, first off, that has been Smash's legacy from the get go. It literally got famous because it crammed a ton of Nintendo franchises altogether in one game to begin with and has continued to evolve on the basis of doing exactly that and paying fan service to every franchise included along the way... But also, each franchise has huge fan bases that have either very little in the game or nothing at all, and some of these franchises are from titles that have sold 10, 20, 30 million plus copies across their life times and reached millions of people. Again, that doesn't make new franchises inherently better, but it's more of an explanation of the specific value of pushing new franchises for Smash and also why people would be so incredibly attracted to that idea. The more games you've played and the more you've immersed yourself in a variety of gaming landscapes and cultures, the more you recognize how many fans of different franchises exist across the medium and can individually recognize the enormous value of those franchises for yourself as well.
 

ZelDan

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Expanding upon already existing series can definitely still add to the crossover appeal.

As exciting as seeing matchups like Mario vs Sonic or Link vs Cloud can be, seeing secondary or supporting cast characters can be kinda cool too. I'm sure there are many people that'd be down to see Bass fight against Shadow the hedgehog, or would love to see Tifa and Chun Li brawl it out. Even weirder more "out of left field" crossover stuff can be appealing in a "you would never think you'd see these things together" sort of way, like having Waluigi battling Dr. Robotnik, or maybe, I dunno, Jeanne from Bayonetta facing off against Sephiroth.

At the end of the day many franchises have multiple cool and beloved characters, and at the end of the day isn't that what we want, is cool characters?
 
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Nanami77

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Unrelated and off topic, but if you still haven’t been spoiled on TLOU2 and plan on getting it, DO NOT read the PS5 event Twitch chat tomorrow. If you do so, you are literally asking to get the entire game ruined for yourself.
 

Perkilator

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Unrelated and off topic, but if you still haven’t been spoiled on TLOU2 and plan on getting it, DO NOT read the PS5 event Twitch chat tomorrow. If you do so, you are literally asking to get the entire game ruined for yourself.
I've seen the leaks.

And without spoiling anything, the game ruined itself anyways with its "NO FUN ALLOWED" mentality.
 

Nanami77

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Knight Dude

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Expanding upon already existing series can definitely still add to the crossover appeal.

As exciting as seeing matchups like Mario vs Sonic or Link vs Cloud can be, seeing secondary or supporting cast characters can be kinda cool too. I'm sure there are many people that'd be down to see Bass fight against Shadow the hedgehog, or would love to see Tifa and Chun Li brawl it out. Even weirder more "out left field" crossover stuff can be appealing in a "you would never think you'd see these things together" sort of way, like having Waluigi battling Dr. Robotnik, or maybe, I dunno, Jeanne from Bayonetta facing off against Sephiroth.

At the end of the day many franchises have multiple cool and beloved characters, and at the end of the day isn't that what we want, is cool characters?
We can't have Smash stop until Mega Man X can call Fulgore a Maverick and they beat the **** out of each other on the Portal stage from MK2.
 
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Perkilator

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Expanding upon already existing series can definitely still add to the crossover appeal.

As exciting as seeing matchups like Mario vs Sonic or Link vs Cloud can be, seeing secondary or supporting cast characters can be kinda cool too. I'm sure there are many people that'd be down to see Bass fight against Shadow the hedgehog, or would love to see Tifa and Chun Li brawl it out. Even weirder more "out left field" crossover stuff can be appealing in a "you would never think you'd see these things together" sort of way, like having Waluigi battling Dr. Robotnik, or maybe, I dunno, Jeanne from Bayonetta facing off against Sephiroth.

At the end of the day many franchises have multiple cool and beloved characters, and at the end of the day isn't that what we want, is cool characters?
I just wanna see Cash Banooca teaming up with Jill Sandwich to stop Mewtwo from rampaging on the Space Colony ARK.
 

Venus of the Desert Bloom

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With everything going on and waiting to hear from Sakurai about ARMS newcomer, I feel this Sakurai tweet (today) is a very fitting feeling many of the fans are having currently

 
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SneakyLink

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SMAASH! Puppy

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Lenora is a terrible idea.

Because then I can't play the game without reminding myself of her Watchog sweeping my team and crying because of it.

RIP me. :4morton:
I started with Pokémon Black 2 so I fought Cheren instead. It was easy because I found a Riolu just before.

Said Riolu evolved right before Driftveil City, so Clay was my nightmare boss for the game.
 
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SuperSmashStephen

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Does anyone know if Nintendo has any sort of E3 like plans coming up in the near future?

I know the event itself isn’t going on, but we normally got a direct. I know Sony is revealing the PS5 tomorrow, so I was wondering if Nintendo had any plans.
 

Captain Shwampy

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Does anyone know if Nintendo has any sort of E3 like plans coming up in the near future?

I know the event itself isn’t going on, but we normally got a direct. I know Sony is revealing the PS5 tomorrow, so I was wondering if Nintendo had any plans.
Insiders said that there just gonna reveal E3 news at random like paper mario
 

Knight Dude

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Does anyone know if Nintendo has any sort of E3 like plans coming up in the near future?

I know the event itself isn’t going on, but we normally got a direct. I know Sony is revealing the PS5 tomorrow, so I was wondering if Nintendo had any plans.
I don't think anything is outright confirmed. There's mostly rumors about 2D Metroid and some Mario remakes/remasters or whatever. Maybe there's more info for the Smash character and a little something for the release of Pokemon's DLC, but again, we don't know when. It's been a while, so I understand being anxious.

Insiders said that there just gonna reveal E3 news at random like paper mario
Hey, your this place's resident Sega Man. Who'd be your top 3 Sega characters?
 
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TTF

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Does anyone know if Nintendo has any sort of E3 like plans coming up in the near future?

I know the event itself isn’t going on, but we normally got a direct. I know Sony is revealing the PS5 tomorrow, so I was wondering if Nintendo had any plans.
If there is they haven't been explicit about it. I've been seeing some say that they're just shadow dropping things throughout these couple of weeks that under normal circumstances would've been in a direct, like the new Paper Mario.
 

Captain Shwampy

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I don't think anything is outright confirmed. There's mostly rumors about 2D Metroid and some Mario remakes/remasters or whatever. Maybe there's more info for the Smash character and a little something for the release of Pokemon's DLC, but again, we don't know when. It's been a while, so I understand being anxious.



Hey, your this place's resident Sega Man. Who'd be your top 3 Sega characters?
Rika
Arle
Sakura
 
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