Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[Michael the Spikester]

The way I understand it, all of SNK's properties share a universe, like how all of Marvel's do. Therefore, Nakororu would count as another KOF rep, as she is part of KOF.

So its basically like Soulcalibur and Tekken then? Same universe but different time periods.

 

[Aetheri]

I think both are fair realizations for a crossover as ambitious as Smash. On one hand you envision the widest spectrum of characters, worlds, and franchises being a major collaboration of gaming companies coming to together to bring something awesome. On the other hand you have a collection of beloved characters that many Smash/Nintendo fans sort of imagine as sort of a "Hall of Fame" Many fans have their own beloved characters they'd love to play as in Smash and with assist trophies so far being the only thing that holds a character back in the same game it can be a bitter pill to swallow when you know the character can add so much more the series.

That said the addition of any character regardless of their home franchise brings something new to the table. Literally any fighter from here on out is capable of this. Whether they are from an existing franchise in Smash or a new IP entirely. Even if they started as an NPC they are still bringing something new to the table even though the character themselves were already a part of the game.

But with all that said, everyone is free to want whoever they want. So long as we keep speculation low in sodium if we don't get our way.

 

[TheHeartbreakKid]

So its basically like Soulcalibur and Tekken then? Same universe but different time periods.

Are Tekken and Soul Calibur in the same universe?

Wouldn't that make Street Fighter in the same universe too, as Akuma is part of the Tekken lore?

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

I think the fact that this is probably as big as Smash will ever get is...highly underestimated. There's nothing wrong with wanting to expand on series with content in Smash, but considering the scope of the game it's not really unexpected that folks want to see the crossover become as large as possible.

Granted, I personally feel we're in for at least two 3rd party characters in Volume 2 considering Sakurai's comments in Famitsu on how he had to contact "publishers" meaning he needs to meet with folks who aren't in charge of publishing Nintendo games, meaning...non 1st parties.

I think the fact that this crossover will likely never happen again is underestimated in importance by some folks. It doesn't mean that first parties are bad, and it doesn't mean that first parties don't crossover in a meaningful way, but I also feel that the fact we got ARMS as the first pick, a series without a playable fighter, and a new series to get a playable fighter, which continues the trend of new material in Smash, is telling.

 

[Cosmic77]

Want to know why people feel that way? We are *never* getting a crossover like this again. Sakurai has repeatedly called this a “celebration of gaming”, and it won’t be to that degree next game because, lets face it, there will be cuts and getting all of these companies on board will never happen again.

When you see people saying “expand the crossover”, its because they love seeing as many gaming faces from everywhere in the industry in this one game, and something like this will never happen again, hence the name “Ultimate”.

And you're free to feel that way. A lot clearly do. My view of Smash just happens to be more ambitious when it comes to IP variety. I want Smash to straight up be a well-designed Mugen.

Personally, I just don't get the rush to cram in as many new franchises on the roster as possible before Ultimate ends. A few maybe, but not for every single slot.

Yes, I understand that this is supposed to be the "ultimate" Smash, but people are starting to act like the number of franchises added to the crossover is the only thing that defines this game as "ultimate". Part of the reason why I've liked Ultimate's lineup so much is because it balances the new and old. You've got Splatoon, Castlevania, Persona, and Dragon Quest, but you also got to see the Mario, DK, Metroid, Pokemon, and Animal Crossing expand beyond what they used to be.

If this was the direction Ultimate took from the very beginning, yeah, we'd probably have a ton of new franchises, but it would be at the expense of fleshing out the existing universes. They're already represented, so why bother with them? They won't contribute to the crossover element.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

ALEX KIDD MII COSTUME IN SMASH

LET'S GOOOO

It's like the Wonder Boy: The Dragon's Trap repainting, but with a little extra content. Nice!

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Are Tekken and Soul Calibur in the same universe?

Wouldn't that make Street Fighter in the same universe too, as Akuma is part of the Tekken lore?

Its kinda implied.

Given both Yoshimitsu's in both those franchises are supposedly part of the same clan. Also some theories the Devil Gene could be tied to Soul Edge (Inferno/Nightmare).

 

[Knight Dude]

I think both are fair realizations for a crossover as ambitious as Smash. On one hand you envision the widest spectrum of characters, worlds, and franchises being a major collaboration of gaming companies coming to together to bring something awesome. On the other hand you have a collection of beloved characters that many Smash/Nintendo fans sort of imagine as sort of a "Hall of Fame" Many fans have their own beloved characters they'd love to play as in Smash and with assist trophies so far being the only thing that holds a character back in the same game it can be a bitter pill to swallow when you know the character can add so much more the series.

That said the addition of any character regardless of their home franchise brings something new to the table. Literally any fighter from here on out is capable of this. Whether they are from an existing franchise in Smash or a new IP entirely. Even if they started as an NPC they are still bringing something new to the table even though the character themselves were already a part of the game.

But with all that said, everyone is free to want whoever they want. So long as we keep speculation low in sodium if we don't get our way.

That last part is tricky tho. Like, the last character who was added that didn't make at least some people salty was what, Little Mac?

Yeah, I wouldn't mind it if some series got a 2nd or 3rd or 4th character. Like, I'd pop off if a character from Kirby or Metroid got in. Dixie and Elma would be pretty cool too. Though obviously I think franchises like Sonic, Mega Man and Street Fighter could offer badass additions that 80% of 1st and 3rd parties would have a hard time being as cool as they are.

 

[PLATINUM7]

So its basically like Soulcalibur and Tekken then? Same universe but different time periods.

Not quite.

Art of Fighting is set many years before Fatal Fury yet characters from both series appear in King of Fighters without any age changes. King of Fighters is its own thing with a different timeline to the series represented in it.

 

[Cosmic77]

I think the fact that this crossover will likely never happen again is underestimated in importance by some folks. It doesn't mean that first parties are bad, and it doesn't mean that first parties don't crossover in a meaningful way, but I also feel that the fact we got ARMS as the first pick, a series without a playable fighter, and a new series to get a playable fighter, which continues the trend of new material in Smash, is telling.

To be fair, our previous character was from a franchise that was neither new or lacking in playable characters. It was only new in the sense that 3H wasn't represented yet, and that's vastly different from an entire franchise not being repped.

"New material" is a very flexible term, and most definitions people have for it are contradicted by either 3H or ARMS.

 

[Krankees]

Just give me Phoenix Wright and I'm good.

 

[cosmicB]

Personally, I just don't get the rush to cram in as many new franchises on the roster as possible before Ultimate ends. A few maybe, but not for every single slot.

Yes, I understand that this is supposed to be the "ultimate" Smash, but people are starting to act like the number of franchises added to the crossover is the only thing that defines this game as "ultimate". Part of the reason why I've liked Ultimate's lineup so much is because it balances the new and old. You've got Splatoon, Castlevania, Persona, and Dragon Quest, but you also got to see the Mario, DK, Metroid, Pokemon, and Animal Crossing expand beyond what they used to be.

If this was the direction Ultimate took from the very beginning, yeah, we'd probably have a ton of new franchises, but it would be at the expense of fleshing out the existing universes. They're already represented, so why bother with them? They won't contribute to the crossover element.

That's the thing though, they're already fleshed out. Almost every single Nintendo franchise has good to great representation, whether it be in the form of spirits, ATs, music, items, etc. I wouldn't make a fuss of the few exceptions like Dragalia Lost or Startropics that have zero representation got added into the fold, but they're the exception and not the rule with Nintendo properties.

And don't get me wrong, there could be no more DLC at all right now and it would still be the ultimate video game cross-over. But it's not over, and I just feel that continuing to flesh out what's already there is redundant at this point. Why not go scorched Earth when you have not only the opportunity, but several IP owners practically begging you to do it with their own properties?

 

[Guynamednelson]

Almost every single Nintendo franchise has good to great representation

A rhythm game only having three tracks is not good representation. Neither is Wars having almost nothing even compared to Brawl.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

A rhythm game only having three tracks is not good representation. Neither is Wars having almost nothing even compared to Brawl.

That's why he said "almost"

 

[Cosmic77]

That's the thing though, they're already fleshed out. Almost every single Nintendo franchise has good to great representation, whether it be in the form of spirits, ATs, music, items, etc. I wouldn't make a fuss of the few exceptions like Dragalia Lost or Startropics that have zero representation got added into the fold, but they're the exception and not the rule with Nintendo properties.

And don't get me wrong, there could be no more DLC at all right now and it would still be the ultimate video game cross-over. But it's not over, and I just feel that continuing to flesh out what's already there is redundant at this point. Why not go scorched Earth when you have not only the opportunity, but several IP owners practically begging you to do it with their own properties?

Well, that depends on who you're asking. I'm sure a lot of people weren't satisfied with Metroid and DK until now, and I feel like most people would agree that Zelda, Kirby, XC, Splatoon or at least one of these four have room to grow.

Despite how pessimistic people are being, I expect most of the third-parties to return in the next Smash game. Should that turn out to be true, people are going to be asking for the same thing. "We might be able to have even more franchises than Ultimate! We can't pass this opportunity up!" This would effectively gatekeep all characters who weren't from a new franchise, first or third-party. We'd have several one-character franchises that are unable to grow because once they're added to the game, they've accomplished their main purpose. That's not my idea of an ultimate Smash game.

 

[Opossum]

Fighter 11 is Blathers. How fast would you main him?

 

[True Blue Warrior]

I'm not sure what the intent was with calling it a celebration of gaming, but I know it wasn't meant as a tool for people on the internet to gatekeep first-parties.

Characters like Travis and Reimu adds to the crossover aspects of this game, but so would characters like Waluigi and Spring Man.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Fighter 11 is Blathers. How fast would you main him?

I wouldn't. He's an ok character, but the Blathers vs. Ledian matchup is just unwinnable, and I hate it too much to pick him up.

 

[AntagonisticGalaxyCetacea]

Its kinda implied.

Given both Yoshimitsu's in both those franchises are supposedly part of the same clan. Also some theories the Devil Gene could be tied to Soul Edge (Inferno/Nightmare).

The Yoshimitsu in Soul Calibur is the descendant IIRC

 

[Michael the Spikester]

The Yoshimitsu in Soul Calibur is the descendant IIRC

What I meant when I said part of the same clan. Maybe should had been a little more clear.

 

[PLATINUM7]

The Yoshimitsu in Soul Calibur is the descendant IIRC

You mean ancestor.

 

[andree123]

Do you think that vergeben rumor Heihachi guest starring in "something" is about Heihachi as a DLC character in SoulCalibur VI?

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Do you think that vergeben rumor Heihachi guest starring in "something" is about Heihachi as a DLC character in SoulCalibur VI?

That rumor is said by Sabi. Vergeben has not remotely replied or confirmed anything. As Sabi has lied before, it's best to take it with a massive grain of salt.

The worst Vergeben has done was be given false information, but he never goes around lying to others. He's always honest.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Do you think that vergeben rumor Heihachi guest starring in "something" is about Heihachi as a DLC character in SoulCalibur VI?

crazy idea: Heihachi is a guest character in the final pass of Street Fighter V. Bandai Namco and Capcom have collaborated a lot before, with even Akuma appearing in Tekken 7. May wanna return the favor by putting Heihachi in SFV

 

[Aetheri]

That last part is tricky tho. Like, the last character who was added that didn't make at least some people salty was what, Little Mac?

Yeah, I wouldn't mind it if some series got a 2nd or 3rd or 4th character. Like, I'd pop off if a character from Kirby or Metroid got in. Dixie and Elma would be pretty cool too. Though obviously I think franchises like Sonic, Mega Man and Street Fighter could offer badass additions that 80% of 1st and 3rd parties would have a hard time being as cool as they are.

Don't think anyone was really salty for Inklings, K Rool or Banjo from what I saw. Mainly because they were highly requested characters and (at least Inklings) were expected to be in the game. However I'm sure if you look hard enough you'll find some people that were upset about it, which should bring up another point.

You can't please everyone. Some people are legitamately annoyed with Smash's current roster. And not just because characters are missing but because of how ridiculously huge it is.

 

[DarthEnderX]

ALEX KIDD MII COSTUME IN SMASH

LET'S GOOOO

Huh, from the trailer I would have sworn that was being made by the same team that made Monster Boy. Clearly the aesthetic they were going for. And would have made sense for the same company to try and revive the OTHER Master System mascot.

The way I understand it, all of SNK's properties share a universe, like how all of Marvel's do. Therefore, Nakororu would count as another KOF rep, as she is part of KOF.

That's not exactly accurate at all. Fatal Fury doesn't even share the same universe as King of Fighters.

The way it works is, each SNK franchise has it's own universe. But then King of Fighters is a different thing where every SNK character exists in the same universe. But those characters are like separate mirror universe versions of the main series characters. For example, the Geese of Fatal Fury is technically dead, while the Geese in King of Fighters has never died. And nothing that happens in KoF effects the original series.

The exception to this is Art of Fighting and Fatal Fury, which the Art of Fighting games are expressly in the FF universe and are prequels to the FF games.

 

[frozolloyd]

Do you think that vergeben rumor Heihachi guest starring in "something" is about Heihachi as a DLC character in SoulCalibur VI?

Like Rie just said, its very possible that they are referring to SF5, considering I believe they just confirmed more DLC. It also in theory could be the new KOF game as well, for similar reasons to SF5 (aka close relation due to guest characters).

 

[Deleted member]

Huh, from the trailer I would have sworn that was being made by the same team that made Monster Boy. Clearly the aesthetic they were going for. And would have made sense for the same company to try and revive the OTHER Master System mascot.

Actually It is being made by a group of fans from Spain.

They were working on a fan-remake, they got noticed by SEGA and got hired to basically pull a Sonic Mania with Alex Kidd.

Two of the devs even added me as friends on Discord some minutes ago.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

speaking of tekken 7

u know what i still cannot believe

WE GOT ****ING NEGAN FROM THE WALKING DEAD AS A GUEST FIGHTER

im not even mad, that's mind blowing

 

[PeridotGX]

Do you think that vergeben rumor Heihachi guest starring in "something" is about Heihachi as a DLC character in SoulCalibur VI?

It's obvious he's gonna appear in the biggest crossover fighting game of all time

that game has Rayman, Steven Universe, Tomb Raider, and WWE content. Heihachi would hardly be notable

 

[AceAttorney9000]

My picks would be.

Super Mario Bros.: Paper Mario
Donkey Kong: Dixie Kong
The Legend of Zelda: Ganon
Metroid: Sylux
Yoshi: Kamek
Kirby: Bandana Dee
StarFox: Leon Powalski
Pokemon: Urshifu
EarthBound: Porky Minch
F-Zero: Black Shadow
Fire Emblem: Lyn
Kid Icarus: Medusa
WarioWare: Ashley
Metal Gear: Raiden
Sonic the Hedgehog: Dr. Eggman
Pikmin: Louie
Animal Crossing: Tom Nook
Mega Man: Proto Man
Punch-Out!!: King Hippo
Pac-Man: Ms. Pac-Man
Xenoblade Chronicles: Elma
Ryu Hayabusa: Chun-Li
Final Fantasy: Tifa Lockhart
Bayonetta: Jeanne
Castlevania: Alucard
Splatoon: Octoling
Persona 5: Kasumi
Dragon Quest: Slime
Banjo-Kazooie: Gruntilda
Fatal Fury: Geese Howard
ARMS: Minmin

Rate my opinion.

• Super Mario Bros. () - Geno (Super Mario RPG)
• Donkey Kong () - Dixie Kong (Donkey Kong Country 2)
• The Legend of Zelda () - Midna & Wolf Link (The Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess)
• Metroid () - Spire (Metroid Prime: Hunters)
• Yoshi () - Shy Guy (Super Mario Bros. 2)
• Kirby () - Bandana Waddle Dee (Kirby Super Star)
• Star Fox () - Krystal (Star Fox Adventure)
• Pokemon () - Bea (Pokemon Sword and Shield)
• Earthbound () - Duster (Mother 3)
• F-Zero () - Jody Summer (F-Zero X)
• Fire Emblem () - Lyn (Fire Emblem: The Blazing Blade)
• Kid Icarus () - Medusa (Kid Icarus)
• Wario () - Captain Syrup (Super Mario Land 3: Wario Land)
• Metal Gear () - Raiden (Metal Gear Solid 2: Sons of Liberty)
• Sonic the Hedgehog () - Dr. Eggman (Sonic the Hedgehog)
• Pikmin () - Louie (Pikmin 2)
• Animal Crossing () - Mr. Resetti (Animal Crossing)
• Mega Man () - Proto Man (Mega Man 3)
• Punch-Out!! () - King Hippo (Punch-Out!!)
• Pac-Man/Classic Namco () - Taizo Hori (Dig Dug)
• Xenoblade Chronicles () - Rex (Xenoblade Chronicles 2)
• Street Fighter () - Chun-Li (Street Fighter II: The World Warrior)
• Final Fantasy () - Tifa (Final Fantasy VI)
• Bayonetta () - Jeanne (Bayonetta)
• Castlevania () - Alucard (Castlevania III: Dracula's Curse)
• Splatoon () - Agent 8 / Marina (Splatoon 2)
• Persona/Shin Megami Tensei () - Jack Frost (Megami Tensei II)
• Dragon Quest () - Dragonlord (Dragon Quest)
• Banjo-Kazooie () - Gruntilda (Banjo-Kazooie)
• Fatal Fury/The King of Fighters/SNK () - Kyo Kusanagi (The King of Fighters '94)
• Miscellaneous Nintendo () - Excitebiker (Excitebike)

 

[zeldasmash]

Alex Kidd came back from the dead!? Wow...

 

[Phoenixio]

I think they are among the biggest, and are the ones I like the most. But Double Dragon might be the top dog for the overall influence it has in pop-culture and games.

I've surfed the net a little bit after this discussion, and I do think Streets of Rage might have a shot. I've been missing an "old" character in my predictions for this fighter pass, and definitely, that Axel might be the type of character big enough to represent his genre. The series has been on Nintendo platforms quite a bit as well, so the connection should be good.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

speaking of tekken 7

u know what i still cannot believe

WE GOT ****ING NEGAN FROM THE WALKING DEAD AS A GUEST FIGHTER

im not even mad, that's mind blowing

It's like Plant in Smash.

Too ****ing silly to be angry about it.

 

[7NATOR]

I know I'm gonna get Flak for this, but on the topic of Streets of Rage in Smash, I think a Character like Axel might be too similar in function to Terry, not that i say they would play the same, but that the similarities in my opinion are hard to notice, and with the competition stacked for slots, it's something to consider

 

[zeldasmash]

My picks would be.

Super Mario Bros.: Paper Mario
Donkey Kong: Dixie Kong
The Legend of Zelda: Ganon
Metroid: Sylux
Yoshi: Kamek
Kirby: Bandana Dee
StarFox: Leon Powalski
Pokemon: Urshifu
EarthBound: Porky Minch
F-Zero: Black Shadow
Fire Emblem: Lyn
Kid Icarus: Medusa
WarioWare: Ashley
Metal Gear: Raiden
Sonic the Hedgehog: Dr. Eggman
Pikmin: Louie
Animal Crossing: Tom Nook
Mega Man: Proto Man
Punch-Out!!: King Hippo
Pac-Man: Ms. Pac-Man
Xenoblade Chronicles: Elma
Ryu Hayabusa: Chun-Li
Final Fantasy: Tifa Lockhart
Bayonetta: Jeanne
Castlevania: Alucard
Splatoon: Octoling
Persona 5: Kasumi
Dragon Quest: Slime
Banjo-Kazooie: Gruntilda
Fatal Fury: Geese Howard
ARMS: Minmin

Rate my opinion.

Here are mine:

Super Mario: Paper Mario
Donkey Kong: Dixie Kong
The Legend of Zelda: Ghirahim
Metroid: Sylux
Yoshi: Birdo
Star Fox: Krystal
Pokemon: Rillaboom, Sceptile or Blaziken
Earthbound: Porky
F-Zero: Black Shadow
Fire Emblem: Either Lyn or The Black Knight
Kid Icarus: Viridi
WarioWare: Waluigi
Metal Gear: Raiden
Sonic The Hedgehog: Shadow
Pikmin: Louie I guess.
Animal Crossing: Tom Nook
Mega Man: X or Zero
Punch Out!!: I'd love to see Mike Tyson. XD
Pac-Man: Ms. Pac-Man
Xenoblade: Elma or Rex
Street Fighter: Akuma or Chun-Li
Final Fantasy: Estuans iterius, Ira Vehevti
Bayonetta: Jeanne
Castlevania: Alucard
Splatoon: Octoling
Persona 5: Goro Akechi, Morgana or Kasumi
Dragon Quest: I guess the Slime
Banjo-Kazooie: Good ol' Gruntilda
Fatal Fury: Rock Howard or Geese
ARMS: Depends on who we get. Spring Man, Min Min or Dr. Coyle.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Here are mine:

Super Mario: Paper Mario
Donkey Kong: Dixie Kong
The Legend of Zelda: Ghirahim
Metroid: Sylux
Yoshi: Birdo
Star Fox: Krystal
Pokemon: Rillaboom, Sceptile or Blaziken
Earthbound: Porky
F-Zero: Black Shadow
Fire Emblem: Either Lyn or The Black Knight
Kid Icarus: Viridi
WarioWare: Waluigi
Metal Gear: Raiden
Sonic The Hedgehog: Shadow
Pikmin: Louie I guess.
Animal Crossing: Tom Nook
Mega Man: X or Zero
Punch Out!!: I'd love to see Mike Tyson. XD
Pac-Man: Ms. Pac-Man
Xenoblade: Elma or Rex
Street Fighter: Akuma or Chun-Li
Final Fantasy: Estuans iterius, Ira Vehevti
Bayonetta: Jeanne
Castlevania: Alucard
Splatoon: Octoling
Persona 5: Goro Akechi, Morgana or Kasumi
Dragon Quest: I guess the Slime
Banjo-Kazooie: Good ol' Gruntilda
Fatal Fury: Rock Howard or Geese
ARMS: Depends on who we get. Spring Man, Min Min or Dr. Coyle.

where's Kirby in your list?

 

[Perkilator]

Almost every single Nintendo franchise has good to great representation, whether it be in the form of spirits, ATs, music, etc.

Franchises like Game & Watch and Punch-Out are actually kinda lacking in those latter two areas. Before you get all aggro about this, let me explain this calmly:

Game & Watch
-No original new stages since Flat Zone 2
-No Manhole Assist Trophy
-No Game & Watch Gallery music

Punch-Out!!
-Same 5 songs (3 of which are just variations when you could include music from Punch-Out Wii and Super Punch-Out)
-No other Assist Trophy to take Little Mac's place after his promotion from Brawl (you could make Bald Bull one)

 

[zeldasmash]

where's Kirby in your list?

Kirby: Bandana Dee

 

[Trevenant]

I know I'm gonna get Flak for this, but on the topic of Streets of Rage in Smash, I think a Character like Axel might be too similar in function to Terry, not that i say they would play the same, but that the similarities in my opinion are hard to notice, and with the competition stacked for slots, it's something to consider

He would maybe at most share a few attacks with him but characters borrow attack animations all the time. For instance Byleth's up smash and air take cues from Simon's Up Tilt animation but instead of ripping the attack so that Byleth also used it for the up tilt, they were repurposed for the other up moves just so they'd be more distinct. That and Beat Em Ups and hard-core fighting games are very fundamentally different. It is basically just judging a book by its cover and is kind of reminiscent of those Hat Ken memes