Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[SpectreJordan]

Alright, how do you guys feel about Final Fight or Streets of Rage? I'd like a SoR character myself. And I think that both series could make for a good addition to Smash. On top of that, I feel that they have multiple characters that'd be reasonable choices. Kind of like how Tekken has Jin, Kazuya and Heihachi, who'd all be reasonable choices.

FF has Haggar, but I think you could make a case for Guy and Cody as well.
SoR has Axel, but I think one could also make a case for Blaze Fielding, who is also in every game.

Haggar & Axel would be awesome. My Capcom bias has me leaning towards the MF Mayor though.

I think a Beat ‘Em Up Rep has a really good chance at happening. It’s one of the last major genres without a playable character in Smash. Plus, it’s one that was in its glory days during the Arcade/SNES era; an era that Sakurai has shown he cares about deeply.

Haggar & Axel are my most wanted Beat Em Up Reps, but Rash/The Battletoads would be an unexpected great addition too. I’m not into Billy/Jimmy but I’d understand why they’d be chosen.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

-No other Assist Trophy to take Little Mac's place after his promotion from Brawl (you could make Bald Bull one)

Glass Joe or Kong Hippo would be better though.

 

[Wunderwaft]

I know I'm gonna get Flak for this, but on the topic of Streets of Rage in Smash, I think a Character like Axel might be too similar in function to Terry, not that i say they would play the same, but that the similarities in my opinion are hard to notice, and with the competition stacked for slots, it's something to consider

The only similarities they have is that they both look like Ken, outside of that they play very differently. They are from different genres and they function waaaay too differently.

 

[Phoenixio]

Franchises like Game & Watch and Punch-Out are actually kinda lacking in those latter two areas. Before you get all aggro about this, let me explain this calmly:

Game & Watch
-No original new stages since Flat Zone 2
-No Manhole Assist Trophy
-No Game & Watch Gallery music

I can only agree, but Game and Watch is also a peculiar case, since he can represent whole games with a single move. And since he has so many unique moves, in some way, that's how he brings so many series together. I'm also not sure what the original material is as far as music goes, so it's also possible that it's just not adequate for Smash, much like how some of the original Banjo tracks had to be modified.

 

[Nanami77]

Who else is just waiting for Vergeben to say something about the rumors that he supposedly has spread?

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Who else is just waiting for Vergeben to say something about the rumors that he supposedly has spread?

its obvious sabi lied about them and verge isn't gonna even acknowledge them

 

[Wunderwaft]

its obvious sabi lied about them and verge isn't gonna even acknowledge them

This gif never fails to be relevant when it comes to this speculation cycle.

 

[Trevenant]

its obvious sabi lied about them and verge isn't gonna even acknowledge them

I thought I saw someone post a screenshot of the apparent DM from GFaqs.

 

[Deleted member]

My picks would be.

Super Mario Bros.: Paper Mario
Donkey Kong: Dixie Kong
The Legend of Zelda: Ganon
Metroid: Sylux
Yoshi: Kamek
Kirby: Bandana Dee
StarFox: Leon Powalski
Pokemon: Urshifu
EarthBound: Porky Minch
F-Zero: Black Shadow
Fire Emblem: Lyn
Kid Icarus: Medusa
WarioWare: Ashley
Metal Gear: Raiden
Sonic the Hedgehog: Dr. Eggman
Pikmin: Louie
Animal Crossing: Tom Nook
Mega Man: Proto Man
Punch-Out!!: King Hippo
Pac-Man: Ms. Pac-Man
Xenoblade Chronicles: Elma
Ryu Hayabusa: Chun-Li
Final Fantasy: Tifa Lockhart
Bayonetta: Jeanne
Castlevania: Alucard
Splatoon: Octoling
Persona 5: Kasumi
Dragon Quest: Slime
Banjo-Kazooie: Gruntilda
Fatal Fury: Geese Howard
ARMS: Minmin

Rate my opinion.

Super Mario: Geno
Donkey Kong: Dixie Kong or Lanky Kong
Legend of Zelda: Lana from Hyrule Warriors or Skull Kid
Metroid: Sylux
Yoshi: Kamek
Kirby: Marx or Bandanna Dee
Star Fox: Krystal
Pokemon: Rillaboom
Mother: Duster
F-Zero: Samurai Goroh
Fire Emblem: Lyn
Kid Icarus: Viridi (or Hades but he's legitimately too big)
WarioWare: Jimmy T.
Metal Gear: Raiden
Sonic the Hedgehog: Dr. Eggman
Pikmin: Make Alph an echo fighter dang it #JusticeforAlph
Animal Crossing: Tom Nook
Mega Man: Zero
Punch-Out!!!: Doc Louis
Pac-Man: Ms. Pac-Man (echo)
Xenoblade Chronicles: Rex/Pyra
Street Fighter: Chun-Li or Guile
Final Fantasy: Black Mage or Sephiroth
Bayonetta: Jeanne (echo)
Splatoon: Octoling (echo)
Castlevania: Alucard
Persona: Kasumi Yoshizawa (or the P4 protag if we can choose outside of P5 strictly)
Dragon Quest: DQ5 Protag
Banjo-Kazooie: Gruntilda
Fatal Fury: Geese Howard
ARMS: Assuming it's Spring Man or somethin' I'd like Max Brass

 

[RileyXY1]

I thought I saw someone post a screenshot of the apparent DM from GFaqs.

It might be a fabrication.

 

[Knight Dude]

Don't think anyone was really salty for Inklings, K Rool or Banjo from what I saw. Mainly because they were highly requested characters and (at least Inklings) were expected to be in the game. However I'm sure if you look hard enough you'll find some people that were upset about it, which should bring up another point.

You can't please everyone. Some people are legitamately annoyed with Smash's current roster. And not just because characters are missing but because of how ridiculously huge it is.

Yeah, some people were mad at Banjo-Kazooie getting in. Some were Steve fans, others just didn't like Banjo-Kazooie. That was kind of my point. Salt, much like breathing is to living, salt is a natural and needed element to the Smash experience.

 

[7NATOR]

The only similarities they have is that they both look like Ken, outside of that they play very differently. They are from different genres and they function waaaay too differently.

Ehhhh. I understand the Beat em-up Genre and Fighting game genre are different beats, but they both have some core Similarities i would say, not to the Point where i would say Beat-Em up characters can't be unique from Fighting game characters, like i wouldn't say Kiryu would be like Terry

But with Axel in particular has that same vibe and Archetype that Terry has already, in terms in how Axel moves and stuff. Not to say Axel wouldn't have any differences, because they would, but i think in comparison to other characters, I think in function Axel would be kinda similar to Terry.

I thought I saw someone post a screenshot of the apparent DM from GFaqs.

Spoiler: The Post in question

This, could be edited though, but it's the Private Message format of Gamefaqs

 

[Megadoomer]

I thought I saw someone post a screenshot of the apparent DM from GFaqs.

The problem is that Inspect Element (pressing Control, Shift, and i) can make it seem like anyone is saying anything. Case in point, I used it to make your post look like this:

No idea why - that's the first thing that came to mind.

Admittedly, I could have also done that with my Edit function, but the point still stands that, if it's not posted publicly, we have no idea if it's actually from Vergeben.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

or Hades but he's legitimately too big

To be fair its an common power for gods and goddesses to have size manipulation in fiction. Being an god himself I would imagine Hades could be able to change his size so the whole "Too big" argument isn't that big of an factor.

 

[Trevenant]

The problem is that Inspect Element (pressing Control, Shift, and i) can make it seem like anyone is saying anything. Case in point:

Admittedly, I could have also done that with my Edit function, but the point still stands that, if it's not posted publicly, we have no idea if it's actually from Vergeben.

Yeah you are true but I was just saying it moreso because it isn't just sabi verifying it which would probably then nullify it as fake. It probably is fake though
and I hate trains jk they are cool I guess

 

[cool6012]

She's literally in KOF 14 tho. She'd technically be about as KOF as any Fatal Fury character.

No, she's a Samurai Shodown character. Fatal Fury is dead, they dont make fatal fury games. The newest Samurai Shodown came out in 2019.

 

[Nanami77]

its obvious sabi lied about them and verge isn't gonna even acknowledge them

I’m going to ask this once, because I genuinely do not understand the sentiment.

If the Sabi screenshot wasn’t doctored by anyone ahead of time, why do people automatically assume that he is lying? I can’t remember anything that he has ever gotten wrong, and the only arguments I have seen are “He’s too vague/makes lucky guesses”.

(Not to mention he was 100% on the money with the Jeff Grubb “No June Direct“ article going up before it was published)

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

No idea why - that's the first thing that came to mind.

I think I know why.

 

[Himiko]

I find it impossible to enjoy any speculation at this point, highly unlikely I’m getting any character that I’d like. Also I don’t get why they’d keep the ARMS character a secret if it’s just going to be the main poster boy anyway. Like you already announced the game it’s from, just say who the character is. Almost like they’re trying to set some people like me up for disappointment. Well, whatever, guess I’ll leave now. Sometimes I feel that coming back to this game and the speculation is a mistake cause it just gets me thinking how much better the game could be if they released more interesting or diverse characters that everyone can enjoy, something for everyone. So many great options out there but I’m disappointed every character announcement. Feels ****ing bad.

 

[TTF]

Ehhhh. I understand the Beat em-up Genre and Fighting game genre are different beats, but they both have some core Similarities i would say, not to the Point where i would say Beat-Em up characters can't be unique from Fighting game characters, like i wouldn't say Kiryu would be like Terry

But with Axel in particular has that same vibe and Archetype that Terry has already, in terms in how Axel moves and stuff. Not to say Axel wouldn't have any differences, because they would, but i think in comparison to other characters, I think in function Axel would be kinda similar to Terry.

Spoiler: The Post in question

View attachment 274416

This, could be edited though, but it's the Private Message format of Gamefaqs

I'm just gonna wait til Vergeben actually posts something on GameFAQs to elaborate because of how it can possibly be an edit.

 

[cool6012]

I know people hate this for some reason, but I would love to get an actual Black fighter in this pass. Whether it be Elma, or Twintelle, Doc Luis, Dudley, Lenora, Marina, etc.

Nintendo doesnt havevmany prominent black characters so I would love if one made it on the roster. I'd also be happy if the next avatar at least defaulted to the brown skinned option.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

I know people hate this for some reason, but I would love to get an actual Black fighter in this pass.

People don't hate seeing a person of color in Smash.

What they hate is the idea of adding one just for the sake of adding one and no other reason.

It's like how I feel whenever I see a Dr. Coyle supporter who exclusively wants her because "female villain" rather than looking at her importance in the world of ARMS or her unique mechanics.

It makes it feel like the character isn't a character, but instead just a checkmark on a to-do list and that's dehumanizing.

 

[cool6012]

People don't hate seeing a person of color in Smash.

What they hate is the idea of adding one just for the sake of adding one and no other reason.

Um there are definitely people out there who would hate to see a minority in smash, and I think it's a little naive to think otherwise. Either way all the characters I named are interesting in their own ways and imo would all add the roster in some form. I think it's silly that "importance to the world" is something you think should be considered, it's a video game, it's not that deep.



I dont think theres a soul in the world who wants a character purely because they're a poc and not because they're awesome and a poc.




Edit: And even if someone does want Dr. Coyle specifically because she's a female villain I dont see the issue. People want characters to fill out niches all the time and a female villain would be a unique position to be filled.

 

[AceAttorney9000]

I think the whole ARMS guessing game that started back in March has a very simple explanation: the trailer wasn't finished yet.

Whoever the ARMS character will end up being, they were probably meant to be revealed in that March Mini-Direct and then possibly released in June, but because the full reveal trailer wasn't entirely finished and they didn't want a repeat of the Terry situation (having to put out an unfinished trailer without any gameplay), they instead just vaguely revealed that it would be an ARMS character and told us to stand by until June, just so they could stall for time and get the full reveal trailer finished and ready by the time the character gets released.

... granted, I don't know for sure if that's really what happened, but I think it's the most likely reason for this guessing game.

 

[Himiko]

I know people hate this for some reason, but I would love to get an actual Black fighter in this pass. Whether it be Elma, or Twintelle, Doc Luis, Dudley, Lenora, Marina, etc.

Nintendo doesnt havevmany prominent black characters so I would love if one made it on the roster. I'd also be happy if the next avatar at least defaulted to the brown skinned option.

Funny how I like diversity but there actually aren’t any POC characters that I want that would even have a chance of being in Smash. Well, none that I can think of at the moment. Most characters I want tend to be white females. But I could potentially get excited for a black female character. I actually like Ramlethal but she’s not a main character in GG so yeah.

 

[SuperSmashStephen]

I like that someone FINALLY mentioned that Salt has, is, and will continue to be part of the Smash community. As unfortunate as it is, it’s true.

There is no way Nintendo and Sakurai can make everyone happy when it’s all said and done.

Characters we want will be absent from the roster.

Stages we want will be left out of the selection.

Some music tracks will not make the cut.

Some characters will have Assist Trophies roles, and nothing more until proven otherwise.

Content we enjoyed will be cut in the next game.

It is what it is.

I will never have Cooking Mama in Smash, and that’s a good thing. She isn’t really a gaming icon. She is just a character I really enjoy and think could work well in the context of Smash. A lot of people seem to misconstrue the two ideals.

One Winged Angel, will probably never be included in the Music Selection, as awesome of a track as it is.

I just think a lot of people need to get off their high horse, and enjoy Smash for what it is. A crossover of Nintendo and Gaming Icons, Stars, and Legends.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Um there are definitely people out there who would hate to see a minority in smash, and I think it's a little naive to think otherwise.

There definitely are racist Smash players out there, not denying that. I'm just talking about the general majority here.

Most people who "hate the addition of a black" just hates what I said.

Either way all the characters I named are interesting in their own ways and imo would all add the roster in some form.

Never denied that. It's why I only quoted the first sentence.

I think it's silly that "importance to the world" is something you think should be considered, it's a video game, it's not that deep.

Silly or not, it's at least a better reason than picking Twintelle only because she's black and no other reason whatsoever.

Edit: And even if someone does want Dr. Coyle specifically because she's a female villain I dont see the issue. People want characters to fill out niches all the time and a female villain would be a unique position to be filled.

True. But my point is that Sakurai wouldn't pick Coyle just because she's a female villain. There'd be more reasons to his decision.

If people want a character just to fill in a checkmark list of representation, they're free to do so. I just don't think that's how Sakurai or Nintendo thinks.

 

[cool6012]

Well, none that I can think of at the moment. Most characters I want tend to be white females.

Theres enough great female characters for like an entire Fighter's Passes. Lara Croft, Shantae, Nakoruru, Krystal, Jill Valentine, Claire Redfield, Ramirez, Aloy, Amaterasu, Edelgard, Arle, Chun Li, etc. Etc.

 

[Opossum]

I know I'm gonna get Flak for this, but on the topic of Streets of Rage in Smash, I think a Character like Axel might be too similar in function to Terry, not that i say they would play the same, but that the similarities in my opinion are hard to notice, and with the competition stacked for slots, it's something to consider

Dude you can't say stuff like this and then get super upset when people suggest that Shadow would be a Sonic echo.

 

[Himiko]

Theres enough great female characters for like an entire Fighter's Passes. Lara Croft, Shantae, Nakoruru, Krystal, Jill Valentine, Claire Redfield, Ramirez, Aloy, Amaterasu, Edelgard, Arle, Chun Li, etc. Etc.

Never mind I actually like a bunch of those characters like Lara, Nakoruru, Jill, Claire, and Chun Li. But question is how many of them actually have a chance. Also, outside of Ramlethal I don’t think I can think of black females specifically that I’d want.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Oh, by the way...

Either way all the characters I named are interesting in their own ways and imo would all add the roster in some form.

Lenora

Lenora?

The Normal Gym Leader from Black and White?

EDIT: Got the wrong Gen lol

 

[weallfloatdownhere7]

Who else is just waiting for Vergeben to say something about the rumors that he supposedly has spread?

Last time he posted on gamefaqs was a month ago so it might be a while

 

[Nanami77]

Last time he posted on gamefaqs was a month ago so it might be a while

Usually when a topic about him sticks on the front page for a *very* long time (Which is happening right now), he will eventually intervene.

 

[SNEKeater]

I don't think Sakurai will be taking from the fighting genre quite as much anymore. Ryu and Ken were a big thing since Street Fighter is like THE reference for the genre, and then Terry was the cherry on top, with Fatal Fury and King of Fighters being quite huge as well. But after that, are there really series that came as close as these two?

That, and I think Sakurai would prefer to keep away from getting too close to pure fighting games. It's one thing for Smash to recognize those other series and celebrate them, but it's another to become one of them. Smash is a hybrid game with lots of mixed and mashed content, I don't think they'd want to go too far towards one genre.

But yeah, that's my perception of what I think is Nintendo's and Sakurai's perception about the game. Take it as you will!

I mean you could argue the same with platformers or RPGS. "Mario and Sonic are enough when it comes to platformer characters", "Cloud and Hero work very well if we talk about repping JRPGs", etc.
Not trying to sound rude, but I don't know, I'll never get why people only talk like this when it's about FGC characters, when we only have 3 characters that fit the bill. And these opinions already existed prior to Terry.

Obviously each one has his personal opinion and his preferences. But I don't know, I don't really see any logic in "Sakurai not adding more FGC fighters because he doesn't want to make Smash a traditional fighting game".
While Ryu, Ken and Terry are obviously similar as how they play in their home series, it's not like they're 100% identical. In the end, they're translated into Smash. If characters could be added so easily, just copy & paste, we would already have Heihachi, and as we all know that wasn't the case because it was difficult for Sakurai to translate in Smash the 'Tekken playstyle'.

I'm not sure what the intent was with calling it a celebration of gaming, but I know it wasn't meant as a tool for people on the internet to gatekeep first-parties.

While maybe there's some people using the "celebration of gaming" thing to gatekeep first parties, I don't think most people is doing that. But I can see why they're like this. Technically, Ultimate already covers most of Nintendo IPs. If some franchises are well or badly represented, that's another matter. So it's not really like Nintendo has a lot to offer if they want to see completely new IPs being added to Smash.

Maybe ARMS isn't a name that expands Ultimate a lot as a crossover, but it does the job for me. Personally, I'd rather have new franchises or at least, characters from series without a playable character. For that reason I'm completely okay with ARMS, same for another potential choices such as Astral Chain or Ring Fit. But hey, if they add, idk, another Mario character, I won't be pissed because the crossover isn't expanding, even if that's what I'd like the most for Ultimate.
Everyone has the right to feel how they feel about this thing. I don't think that my stance on this is more valid than yours, assuming it's different from mine, neither I think yours is more valid than mine.

But I don't think it's difficult to see why some folks would rather have completely new things when Ultimate's pretty much an once in a lifetime thing.

 

[cool6012]

Oh, by the way...



Lenora?

The Normal Gym Leader from Black and White?

EDIT: Got the wrong Gen lol

Yeah very unorthodox, but I really like normal types so she could be a cool PKMN Trainer type character. Does she even remotely have a chance, not in hell.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Yeah very unorthodox, but I really like normal types so she could be a cool PKMN Trainer type character. Does she even remotely have a chance, not in hell.

Yeah, but her moveset would be about the Pokemon, not Lenora herself.

 

[cool6012]

Yeah, but her moveset would be about the Pokemon, not Lenora herself.

Obviously haha, I said I like normal types a lot, that's the type she specializes in.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Yeah, but her moveset would be about the Pokemon, not Lenora herself.

Obviously haha, I said I like normal types a lot, that's the type she specializes in.

What are Lenora's Pokémon anyway...

Well...That would certainly be...

THE GREATEST THING EVER!!!!!

 

[Aetheri]

Yeah, some people were mad at Banjo-Kazooie getting in. Some were Steve fans, others just didn't like Banjo-Kazooie. That was kind of my point. Salt, much like breathing is to living, salt is a natural and needed element to the Smash experience.

Ah. Forgot about those crafty miners!

 

[Phoenixio]

I mean you could argue the same with platformers or RPGS. "Mario and Sonic are enough when it comes to platformer characters", "Cloud and Hero work very well if we talk about repping JRPGs", etc.
Not trying to sound rude, but I don't know, I'll never get why people only talk like this when it's about FGC characters, when we only have 3 characters that fit the bill. And these opinions already existed prior to Terry.

It's because fighting games are extremely niche. They are extremely specific in what they do, most series being almost copy pasted from one another. You can capture almost all of the genre's essence with a handful of characters. Of course you can give all characters different movesets, but despite that, do you really see that huge a difference between Ken and Terry?

On the other end, platformers and rpgs are super vague. There's no given structure to those games, and they can feel extremely different from one another. Take... Portal for example, which has clear platforming aspects, and yet is also a FPS and a puzzle game. Which is nowhere near what Mario is all about. Or that Goose simulator game. Or even close-to-home series like Metroid. And the same goes for rpgs, which can go from Gauntlet to TWEWY, to Personna or Dragon Quest, or Skyrim.

And so mix those two together, and you'd have what I assume a conscious decision not to make Smash too close to fighting games. Because it doesn't want to look as elitist as fighting games, and because the design space is very small compared to other genres. And yet at the same time, it wants to celebrate that genre properly too, and it's why Ryu, Ken and Terry made it. Maybe a fourth is coming (to cover beat'em-ups), but seeing how SNK gave almost everything they had, I'd say that was one hell of a celebration, and also where it ends.