Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[SNEKeater]

About the current discussion, I think some people should understand that Ultimate is pretty much the only Smash game were all characters will be together. Sakurai himself said that repeating something like Ultimate is almost impossible. So, with that in mind, I can see why some people could prefer more third parties for this game because this could be the last chance to see certain matchups that wouldn't be possible in a different scenario.

Obviously this isn't the main reason for preferring 3rd parties, but there's always a solid chance to see, I don't know, Isaac and Robin fighting in a future Smash game.
Seeing Cloud and Dante clashing swords? Ryu Hayabusa and Simon fighting each other? Crash Bandicoot teaming up with Megaman? Well, Ultimate's probably the only and last chance to see things like that.

Jill Valentine? The master of unlocking?

Yep, it was Jill.

My thought is that if Volume 2 does go down more of a Nintendo path, what would these people think? Max is someone who, from what I've seen, got into Smash with the addition of Cloud. His view of Smash Brothers seems to be tied to this idea that Smash Bros has transcended Nintendo. And what happens when they don't. It's clear Nintendo adds who they want. They were willing to do a ton of hype third party characters for Volume 1 but they may scale it back in Volume 2 in order to hold onto the profits. But the hype for DLC is, again, predicated on this idea Max presents. Like Max, a lot of people have come into Smash just because it's "Video Games the Game" as Max describes it. What happens when that doesn't come to pass? I'm not sure but it's something to think about at least.

To clarify, Max didn't get into Smash with Cloud's addition. While Cloud was with no doubt his favorite inclusion, the dude has been playing Smash for a long time, mostly as a party game with his friends. He's a regular Smash player, but he's not that into speculation or Smash leaks, besides the known ones. I mean, he himself was pretty much 'convinced' that Dante was FP5 because of the dates of DMC3 Switch version and FP5's reveal being the same day.

Honestly, the ARMS character's reception wasn't even negative.

It was just... standard. Most people just said "cool" and waited for more news.

I understand Smash tends to feed on hype but... pure hype isn't sustainable.

The fact that they didn't revealed who was the fighter and in such anticlimatic way didn't help at all.
"And FP6 is... *Smash logo* an ARMS character!"

While ARMS isn't the most hype character for a lot of people, the reveal could have been more dramatic and intriguing, just like 99% of reveals. In the other hand, the reveal wasn't really seeking to hype people. It was just a "hey, next character is from ARMS. See you next time" type of announcement.

*suspicious terry bogard noises*

I don't think it's very fair to include a character/franchise/company with a really strong presence in the arcades in that argument, because obvious reasons.

 

[TheCJBrine]

smh we can have cartoon characters and block men in the real world but suddenly their clashing style with more-realistic or anime men and other cartoony dudes is horrendous in crossover game.

Also I’m sure Sakurai wouldn’t have a problem talking to Western 3rd-parties. He and Nintendo can just set up a meeting in Minecraft.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Its probably extremely unlikely but imagine if Sakurai surprises us with something we never expected and that he makes Springtron the ARMS rep stating

"We weren't able to add Spring Man into the roster, so here's the closest thing to the mascot of ARMS".

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

smh we can have cartoon characters and block men in the real world but suddenly their clashing style with more-realistic or anime men and other cartoony dudes is horrendous in crossover game.

Also I’m sure Sakurai wouldn’t have a problem talking to Western 3rd-parties. He and Nintendo can just set up a meeting in Minecraft.

Heh. But yeah, it's a language barrier and it's well known that communication isn't that easy. It can make sense to not go for a hefty amount of Western companies as the time spent on translating every single conversation does stifle development. So it's justifiable to select companies for characters in your language more often.

But even then, he doesn't really avoid Western companies, so it's not a big thing to worry about. Now, with the pandemic, affecting some development of some characters? That's plausible.

 

[Evil Trapezium]

Heh. But yeah, it's a language barrier and it's well known that communication isn't that easy. It can make sense to not go for a hefty amount of Western companies as the time spent on translating every single conversation does stifle development. So it's justifiable to select companies for characters in your language more often.

But even then, he doesn't really avoid Western companies, so it's not a big thing to worry about. Now, with the pandemic, affecting some development of some characters? That's plausible.

Even still, there are plenty of western mii costumes so the language barrier doesn't seem to be that big of an issue.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Even still, there are plenty of western mii costumes so the language barrier doesn't seem to be that big of an issue.

Mii costumes are also a lot smaller of time needed than a full character with significantly more details(namely, they already have pre-set moves so it's just a matter if the costume fits the character or not, and it doesn't take long to showcase the character in action. You don't need to make all new moves). The issue is exaggerated, but the amount of Western companies with a full playable character(or two) is still very very small.

And it makes sense. It's just not that easy either way, but Mii costumes are definitely easier than characters with unique movesets. Ken too, as he has different moves from Ryu overall.

It's not odd people see them as less likely here. Though I honestly feel acting like B-K is a true exception is misleading since it's a matter of getting together with a Western company. Not simply the fact it's a Japanese IP overall.

 

[Heoj]

Y’know completely unrelated to... whatever the hell is going on above but I think that there’s a solid possibility the character after ARMS will be a really big character. I’m talking like Master Chief or Lara Croft big because, this ARMS character is getting released when Fighter 7 SHOULD have been revealed, whether CO-Vid has effected it or not who knows, which means 7 and potentially 8 would’ve been the E3 Reveals.

With that in mind who do we think the character could be that would make the biggest splash? Someone like Geno for fan favoritism that has been at E3 with Ridley and Banjo? Or someone out of nowhere like Joker? Who are your guesses?

Im definitely thinking Geno

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Edit: Wrong link.

 

[Cosmic77]

I'm going to be honest, I don't really know if I consider the "Well I grew up with a Nintendo console so I'm less inclined to third parties" as all that valid of a stance. Like every single Nintendo console has had notable third parties to varying degrees even if their legacy has tended to be "worse third party support." I grew up much like many people with Nintendo as my only outlet for video games: NES > Gameboy Advance > Gamecube > Wii/DS before I finally got an original Xbox when I was like 11 because a friend sold theirs for cheap. And it would be another couple years before I got the first proper modern console in the PS3 in like 2010. Like I grew up in the same circumstance of mostly Nintendo focused with a limited selection I could own, but I never looked at third party titles with anything less than admiration and a desire to play more. I remember being excited as hell to play Castlevania, Mega Man, and Sonic for the first time on my Wii through the VC. I read about Resident Evil 4 as the best Gamecube game and just remember wishing I was older so I could finally play it. I bought Final Fantasy III because it was super cheap at GameStop and played it very poorly because archaic and old JRPGs weren't something I had any experience with. There was always quite a bit to explore, and being subscribed to Nintendo Power? THAT meant I was always seeing new stuff and trying to figure out what I could spend my limited money and birthday presents on. Sure, I often chose Nintendo's newest and biggest games, but I never really thought of third parties as all that separate from Nintendo despite knowing there were several I just didn't have the chance to play.

"I grew up with a Nintendo console" has always, to put it bluntly, felt like more of an excuse for yourself as to why people don't want more third parties. Third parties weren't that uncommon to come across growing up on Nintendo consoles and the vast vast majority of third parties in Smash were fairly notable on Nintendo consoles long before they ever showed up. I don't expect people to like them all or necessarily love them, of course not, but I also remember growing up in the same situation and even if I lovingly stared at Brawl's massive amount of Nintendo history and content with inquisitive and delighted eyes, third parties never once bothered me and I never felt anymore disconnected from them despite growing up with a massive Nintendo focus in my life. The games were there, the third parties were there.

And frankly, again, Smash currently has 69 first party characters, and of the third parties, all but 4 have a lot of significant history with Nintendo (Cloud doesn't himself, but Final Fantasy absolutely does). I'm not saying that's "too many" or even "enough", just that's I think it's important to keep in mind for perspective even as Smash may lean more into third parties at this stage. It's fine to want more, and I'm even there with people in some regards. That list of 17 you did had several characters I would have even liked from the first party, but it's not really a bad thing for Smash to embrace the additional crossover status while it retains the 20 years of work its done with first parties as well. You may like Nintendo to go deeper in on their existing cuts and others certainly will agree, but I think we're quickly approaching the objective reality of that starting to be a limiting factor for the size of the fan base. The further removed you get from the main characters and big franchises, the fewer people that have connections with those characters and the less recognizable they come, even among Nintendo fans too. We're not quite there yet, but we're quickly approach that point (which is why I've brought up Nintendo making new icons and franchises as it's a way to push that point further out). It's rare to see any title choose to limit its audience instead of trying to expand it, and when Smash is as big as it is, I just don't see them actively choosing to move away from that. Ultimate's overall content package and ability to appeal to all kinds of people has resulted in one of the most single profitable titles for Nintendo ever and an evergreen title that they are going to lean on heavily for continued Nintendo Switch sales. It's going to be hard for them to shift away from Ultimate being the biggest "fighting game" ever.

What a lot of people need to understand is that there isn't a right or wrong answer to this. No matter how much effort we put in our responses, no matter how strongly we feel toward our stances, all this really boils down to is personal opinions and different perspectives. One side of the argument might be more popular than the other, but it's opinions are truthfully no more valid than the other side's.

I've heard the counterarguements, and I'm aware of how most of the users in this thread feel. I made my decision, and I'm standing by it regardless of whether or not the majority agrees. I want Smash to keep its focus on first-parties because that's truly how I think it should be handled. There aren't as many people who agree with me as there were in previous entries, but I still see quite a few who understand where I'm coming from. That reassures me that I'm not alone on this.

We'll probably never agree on this, and that's fine. However, I do wish more people would be respectful of different opinions. For every person who feels like they're being attacked for wanting more third-parties, there's someone who's feeling attacked for wanting more first-parties. It also doesn't do any good when people decide, "I prefer first-parties over third-parties and would like the latter to he spaced out more," is the equivalent of saying, "I hate all third-parties because they're stealing the spots for my precious Nintendo characters." It's a ridiculous assumption, and it's absolutely wrong if it's being directed at me. While not as abundant as first-parties, I've voiced my support for a few select third-parties, and I'd be absolutely ecstatic if we got a second Sonic character.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

https://pm1.narvii.com/6870/e39215b09a877180b1e42e231d0c7951b75602fbr1-1280-704v2_hq.jpg

Had this been posted yet? The newest famitsu column by Sakurai.

Uh... what? That’s a picture of dinosaurs

 

[Gentlepanda]

https://pm1.narvii.com/6870/e39215b09a877180b1e42e231d0c7951b75602fbr1-1280-704v2_hq.jpg

Had this been posted yet? The newest famitsu column by Sakurai.

hell yeah elepython

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Crap I didn't copy the link. Sorry guys.

Here it actually is.

https://sourcegaming.info/2018/02/26/another-round-of-fun-sakurais-famitsu-column-vol-546/

Sorry for the mix-up guys...

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

Not gonna lie, a little disappointed now that the elephant snake won't be in Smash.

 

[Gentlepanda]

Crap I didn't copy the link. Sorry guys.

Here it actually is.

https://sourcegaming.info/2018/02/26/another-round-of-fun-sakurais-famitsu-column-vol-546/

Sorry for the mix-up guys...

this is two years old

 

[Deleted member]

Crap I didn't copy the link. Sorry guys.

Here it actually is.

https://sourcegaming.info/2018/02/26/another-round-of-fun-sakurais-famitsu-column-vol-546/

Sorry for the mix-up guys...

That was written two years ago

 

[osby]

this is two years old

Age is just a number.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Should have looked at the date. Thought it was recent given it was from the Geno thread...

 

[Ramen Tengoku]

Geno thread...

There's your problem

 

[Cosmic77]

Y’know completely unrelated to... whatever the hell is going on above but I think that there’s a solid possibility the character after ARMS will be a really big character. I’m talking like Master Chief or Lara Croft big because, this ARMS character is getting released when Fighter 7 SHOULD have been revealed, whether CO-Vid has effected it or not who knows, which means 7 and potentially 8 would’ve been the E3 Reveals.

With that in mind who do we think the character could be that would make the biggest splash? Someone like Geno for fan favoritism that has been at E3 with Ridley and Banjo? Or someone out of nowhere like Joker? Who are your guesses?

If F6 wasn't orginally an ARMS rep, then Corona likely had nothing to do with the change. By the time it hit pandemic levels, the next DLC character should've already gotten a decent amount of work done. I'm not sure if Sakurai and his team would've been able to switch gears and get the next fighter out by June if they made the switch in February.

I'm not saying a switch up is impossible or even unlikely, but I remember people making similar theories about Byleth being switched with F6 so the second pass would start on a high note.

 

[Gentlepanda]

Should have looked at the date. Thought it was recent given it was from the Geno thread...

geno thread is operating 24 years in the past, it could never be the most recent article

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Whelp forget the post I linked. I was just trying to help stir discussion further so the wait for June could get here faster...Embarrass

 

[TheCJBrine]

Should have looked at the date. Thought it was recent given it was from the Geno thread...

geno thread is operating 24 years in the past, it could never be the most recent article

There's your problem

It was posted as a source for Sakurai’s statements on DLC stuff.

 

[osby]

geno thread is operating 24 years in the past, it could never be the most recent article

Bringing back this:

I thought murder was against the global rules?

 

[Michael the Spikester]

It was posted as a source for Sakurai’s statements on DLC stuff.

Yes.

They were saying that DLC was never originally planned during development.

 

[DarthEnderX]

And frankly, again, Smash currently has 69 first party characters, and of the third parties, all but 4 have a lot of significant history with Nintendo (Cloud doesn't himself, but Final Fantasy absolutely does).

Which are the 4 that you think don't?

I think some people should understand that Ultimate is pretty much the only Smash game were all characters will be together.

 

[TheCJBrine]

Yes.

They were saying that DLC was never originally planned during development.

Yeah, it seems it wasn’t initially planned in January 2018 according to Sakurai in another column, as it was another one of two sources shared, this one here being the other and just showing his thoughts on DLC stuff in general from a dev’s view and a consumer’s view. It wasn’t brought up because it was new.

mainly just explaining this because of the “Geno thread bad” people to be honest.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

Y’know completely unrelated to... whatever the hell is going on above but I think that there’s a solid possibility the character after ARMS will be a really big character. I’m talking like Master Chief or Lara Croft big because, this ARMS character is getting released when Fighter 7 SHOULD have been revealed, whether CO-Vid has effected it or not who knows, which means 7 and potentially 8 would’ve been the E3 Reveals.

With that in mind who do we think the character could be that would make the biggest splash? Someone like Geno for fan favoritism that has been at E3 with Ridley and Banjo? Or someone out of nowhere like Joker? Who are your guesses?

Maybe Waluigi. At the very least, Nintendo would be aware of the overwhelming demand for him back at June 2018.

Mr. Sakurai will be aware of the groundswell of support that appeared for a Waluigi.

 

[snowgolem]

Just replayed Odyssey, and now I’m hoping for a character who I know probably won’t happen. Another one, I mean.

 

[Speed Weed]

i think something this thread seriously needs to get is that "i prefer first-parties" is NOT the same as "i hate third-parties how dare they steal all the slots nooooooo".

learn the difference. please.

 

[OnyanRings]

I made a little list ranking every fighter and series by video game genres and i wanted to hear you guys's opinion on it :

Spoiler

So, what new genre do you think would be interesting to add ? Is there a particular genre already in smash that you feel is badly repped ?

 

[snowgolem]

i think something this thread seriously needs to get is that "i prefer first-parties" is NOT the same as "i hate third-parties how dare they steal all the slots nooooooo".

learn the difference. please.

Okay, I understand. I’ll try and remember that next time I feel like somebody is acting ridiculously. Thanks!

I made a little list ranking every fighter and series by video game genres and i wanted to hear you guys's opinion on it :

Spoiler

View attachment 272434


So, what new genre do you think would be interesting to add ? Is there a particular genre already in smash that you feel is badly repped ?

It’s good! I really like the art used. As for the question, puzzle, stealth, sport and arcade feel a little underrepresented. They’re all really unique and another character for one would be fun. It’d also be nice if we got a racing rep which used their racing origins for something other than their final smash. Another beat em up character wouldn’t hurt. And I know none of these are likely, but a card collecting character, horror game character, and visual novel character would all be fun.

 

[Guynamednelson]

I made a little list ranking every fighter and series by video game genres and i wanted to hear you guys's opinion on it :

Spoiler

View attachment 272434


So, what new genre do you think would be interesting to add ? Is there a particular genre already in smash that you feel is badly repped ?

The Belmonts rep the Classicvania era, which were platformers.

 

[Zem-raj]

Speaking of codenames, Let’s play a thread game.

It’s simple: Come up with codenames for your most wanted characters.
I’l start:
-Bandana Waddle Dee: fighter_kind_friend
-Waluigi: fighter_kind_cheater
-Tom Nook: fighter_kind_businessman
-Dr. Eggman: fighter_kind_mech
-Steve: fighter_kind_builder
-Chell: fighter_kind_science

For mine:

Bandana Waddle Dee
fighter_kind_apple

A subtle reference to his Apple Juice theme.
(Waddle Dees kinda look like apples cut in half)

Lloyd Irving
fighter_kind_justice

A reference to his hatred for the word =P

For a serious pick: fighter_kind_berserker

A reference to a title that he can receive in Tales of Symphonia. The title given to "a true warrior who has an undying lust for battle".

Shantae
fighter_kind_dance

A reference to her dancing, which she uses for her transformations.

Rayman
fighter_kind_dreams

A reference to his world, Glade of Dreams.

Dixie Kong
fighter_kind_beret

A reference to her pink beret.

Master Chief
(a pipe dream)
fighter_kind_demon

A reference to his nickname given to him by the Elites in the Halo series.

Crash Bandicoot
fighter_kind_cyclone

A reference to his trademark spin ability, the Cyclone Spin.

Doom Slayer
fighter_kind_gunslinger

A reference to one of his titles from the DOOM series. Using "slayer" would've been too obvious.

 

[Heoj]

There's your problem

Yikes

 

[Evil Trapezium]

I made a little list ranking every fighter and series by video game genres and i wanted to hear you guys's opinion on it :

Spoiler

View attachment 272434


So, what new genre do you think would be interesting to add ? Is there a particular genre already in smash that you feel is badly repped ?

We can solve the Beat em' up section with Axel Stone and Travis Touchdown, then add Sgt. Cortez as the one true First Person Shooter rep!

 

[Mushroomguy12]

Speaking of codenames, Let’s play a thread game.

It’s simple: Come up with codenames for your most wanted characters.
I’l start:
-Bandana Waddle Dee: fighter_kind_friend
-Waluigi: fighter_kind_cheater
-Tom Nook: fighter_kind_businessman
-Dr. Eggman: fighter_kind_mech
-Steve: fighter_kind_builder
-Chell: fighter_kind_science

- Dixie Kong: fighter_kind_monkey
- Sora: fighter_kind_key
- Phoenix Wright: fighter_kind_attorney
- Chun-Li: fighter_kind_warrior
- Lloyd: fighter_kind_blade
- Yuri: fighter_kind_vigilante
- Impa: fighter_kind_ninja
- Lip: fighter_kind_fairy
- Isaac: fighter_kind_sun
- Krystal: fighter_kind_vixen
- Reimu: fighter_kind_shrine
- Octoling: fighter_kind_octopus

 

[snowgolem]

We can solve the Beat em' up section with Axel Stone and Travis Touchdown, then add Sgt. Cortez as the one true First Person Shooter rep!

Last two fighters?

 

[Michael the Spikester]

I personally would had made Toasty! the Final Smash given how iconic it is. And it could still work being toned down. Scorpion simply sets the stage on fire all over on the ground causing amounts of damages to opponents.

Also Nether-Gate could be another option for his Up B.

I would also make his alternate costumes referencing the other MK male ninjas.

Yellow (Scorpion) - Blue (Sub-Zero) - Green (Reptile) - Grey (Smoke) - Red (Ermac) - Black (Noob Saibot) - Purple (Rain) - Brown/Rainbow (Tremor/Chameleon).

Otherwise pretty spot on idea how Scorpion could be in Smash.

 

[Guynamednelson]

Krystal: fighter_kind_fox

I think that would be impossible considering, you know, .

 

[KillerCage]

BrawlFan1 released another potential moveset today.
This time is Scorpion.

Spoiler: Thoughts

Personally I'm okay with this moveset. It feels like an expansion on Ryu & Ken's mechanics (without going overboard), but fused with Terry's quirks.

EDIT: I GOT GRENINJAED!