Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[OnyanRings]

You skipped someone.

View attachment 272471

It's not my fault, it just looked cleaner if i removed a character, i picked Chrom because Awakening's already being repped by Robin and Lucina :y

No hard feelings, Chrom m'boy.

 

[frozolloyd]

Given its brought up. I'd like to ask everyone? Who do you prefer more?

Elma or Rex?

Me, I prefer Elma.

Elma: 3 (Me, Rie and Non)
Rex: 0

So far Elma's in the lead. I'll tally it up once it runs its course of people quoting their opinion.

Call me boring, but I would prefer Rex over Elma. Then again I come from the angle of never playing X (didn't play a lot of the Wii U games) and actually Xenoblade 2. That being said, just from the consensus so far, it is interesting to see that mostly everyone would rather have Elma. Especially since I remember Rex being hotly requested going into Ultimate in most of the fan polls (for example source gaming mega poll: https://sourcegaming.info/2018/06/10/mega-smash-poll-switch-results/ ), while Elma I don't think was ever even top 10 in any polls.

 

[Goombaic]

Elma and Rex have unique traits that would make them unlike anyone else in the roster. Saying that one would be more interesting is pointless. I prefer Rex because I like Xenoblade 2 more, but don't have anything against Elma because X is also a great game and she has just as much creative potential. That said, there's no way Elma will ever get in Ultimate when Rex, Cross, and even Lora exist.

 

[SNEKeater]

Today is Pacman's birthday.

There was a problem fetching the tweet

There was a problem fetching the tweet

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Elma and Rex have unique traits that would make them unlike anyone else in the roster. Saying that one would be more interesting is pointless. I prefer Rex because I like Xenoblade 2 more, but don't have anything against Elma because X is also a great game and she has just as much creative potential. That said, there's no way Elma will ever get in Ultimate when Rex, Cross, and even Lora exist.

Elma WAS chosen to be a guest Blade in Xenoblade 2 instead of Cross, which to me indicates Elma is the protag of X, not Cross. Just sayin'.

 

[Venus of the Desert Bloom]

Given its brought up. I'd like to ask everyone? Who do you prefer more?

Elma or Rex?

Me, I prefer Elma.

Elma: 3 (Me, Rie and Non)
Rex: 0

So far Elma's in the lead. I'll tally it up once it runs its course of people quoting their opinion.

Elma by far though I wasn’t surprised she wasn’t included. It would of been nice to have had some XCX content like music.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

Today is Pacman's birthday.

There was a problem fetching the tweet

There was a problem fetching the tweet

Here is something obligatory

Spoiler

 

[Animegamingnerd]

last one is obviously Phoenix Wright

Devil is probably Heihachi
Blade is... Hayabusa?
no idea on Investigator and Dragon

Dragon is obviously Midgardsormr from Dragalia Lost
Blade is Makoto, the protagonist of Fire Emblem Ninja Academy
Devil is the assist trophy
Investigator is Phoenix Wright
And Objection is obviously Judge Dredd. The Objection is a reference to a courtroom, where you’d find a judge.

Spoiler: What they actually are

Dragon = Kazuma Kiryu as in the Dragon of Dojima

Blade = Rex and Pyra as Pyra is a blade

Devil = Dante as in the Owner of Devil May Cry

Objection = Phoenix Wright

Investigator = Yu Narukami as in the leader of the Investigation Team which is the party in Persona 4.

 

[andree123]

There was a problem fetching the tweet

Is that Pac-man drawn by Yuji Uekawa?

 

[Cosmic77]

Call me boring, but I would prefer Rex over Elma. Then again I come from the angle of never playing X (didn't play a lot of the Wii U games) and actually Xenoblade 2. That being said, just from the consensus so far, it is interesting to see that mostly everyone would rather have Elma. Especially since I remember Rex being hotly requested going into Ultimate in most of the fan polls (for example source gaming mega poll: https://sourcegaming.info/2018/06/10/mega-smash-poll-switch-results/ ), while Elma I don't think was ever even top 10 in any polls.

I think a lot of Rex's support came from people who considered him a shoo-in and wanted to hop on the victory train.

Rex as a character is...okay. His design and his game as a whole has been a subject of criticism. He has a lot of moveset potential though, and I think most people can agree that it's easy to make him unique if the Driver mechanic is incorporated somehow.

I've never really been a huge Xenoblade fan, so I honestly don't care who Nintendo chooses. I feel like Rex would be the better choice due to how successful XC2 has been and how many people have played it. It's also Monolith Soft's most commercially successful game to date.

 

[SNEKeater]

Is that Pac-man drawn by Yuji Uekawa?

Yes, that's what I believe. Looks really cute if you ask me.

 

[Jomosensual]

Since this was on the front page, I want to discuss something I noticed

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Bv2D0fWUc8&feature=emb_title

First, I think Max rambles a bit and says the same thing multiple times. Nonetheless, there was something interesting in what he notes first.

"....because it's Smash Brothers. Because it's now video game All-Stars the game.......Why is Smash as big as it is. Because its not just Nintendo All-Stars anymore. It's video game All-Stars. Smash has now transcended what is just this little Nintendo fighting game into this giant marketing conglomerate game that represents the entire ****ing video game industry. It's not just Smash Bros anymore. It's everything. That's why Smash is as big as it is now. It's video games the game."

What is interesting is his characterization of Smash's growth as becoming a "video game all-star." Moreso the the sheer volume of characters or the fact they brought everyone back. In Max's mind, the growth of Smash Bros is it becoming about video games in general. This isn't an uncommon sentiment but I wonder if people are looking at it wrong.

A lot of this seems to have grown from the DLC, where Nintendo is willing to go all out, and with Ultimate's extra content like Bomberman and Monster Hunter. At the end of 2019, this sentiment was the strongest it has ever been. The assumption was the next character was Doomguy, or Crash or Dante. But then Nintendo throws a curveball, by adding one of their own characters. Then, who starts off Volume 2 isn't another hype third party characters but a fighter from ARMS. In fact, there is a possibility that Volume 2 could be chock full of Nintendo characters. This would fly right in the face of Smash as a video game allstar.

The way I see Smash, in its current form, is Nintendo and Friends. Nintendo characters still make up the majority of the roster, and with ARMS and Byleth, Nintendo is still intent on adding its own characters to Smash. Even still, a lot of the guest characters added were from classic NES games (Megaman and Simon) and ones Nintendo published (Banjo and Bayonetta). But the prevailing idea is that it's not about Nintendo but about video game all-stars. This hasn't been helped by Sakurai as he has pushed this idea with Smash Ultimate's DLC.

My thought is that if Volume 2 does go down more of a Nintendo path, what would these people think? Max is someone who, from what I've seen, got into Smash with the addition of Cloud. His view of Smash Brothers seems to be tied to this idea that Smash Bros has transcended Nintendo. And what happens when they don't. It's clear Nintendo adds who they want. They were willing to do a ton of hype third party characters for Volume 1 but they may scale it back in Volume 2 in order to hold onto the profits. But the hype for DLC is, again, predicated on this idea Max presents. Like Max, a lot of people have come into Smash just because it's "Video Games the Game" as Max describes it. What happens when that doesn't come to pass? I'm not sure but it's something to think about at least.

My potentially hot take on this is that if Smash is truly meant to be an all star lineup then it needs at least 1 Sony and PC gaming rep. Otherwise it feels like its missing a major company and a major genre of games. After that you can tackle stuff like indie reps, a full blooded Microsoft rep, Horror reps, etc. But without those two it feels like the claim is in an "Almost, but not quite yet" type of deal.

 

[Glaciacott]

Elma is by far my favorite, since XCX is a tragically slept-on title to me and I wish it would see more love. Her character is great too, and all the side content would be just as awesome.

With Rex I haven't seen a lot of people that super like Rex. It's more of a liking for Pyra/Mythra and Rex being their way of getting in. Outside of that, I think I would personally find any other XC2 character more hype. Tora w/ Poppy, Nia, Morag, Zeke... heck give me Vandham. Lots of excellent characters, and to me Rex is one of the less interesting ones.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

Yes, that's what I believe. Looks really cute if you ask me.

I’d love to see Smash characters in his art style.

 

[Cap'n Jack]

Going back to the third party representation topic and how far their inclusions break this game from being a Nintendo crossover to an overall gaming icon crossover; how would you rank the third parties from the most Nintendo to the least Nintendo (excluding Pokémon in which all of its characters would top the list)

mine:

1. Bayonetta
2. Banjo and Kazooie
3. Simon Belmont
4. Mega Man
5. Hero
6. Ryu
7. Ken
8. Sonic
9. Pac-Man
10. Terry
11. Snake
12. Richter Belmont
13. Cloud
14. Joker

 

[Goombaic]

I think a lot of Rex's support came from people who considered him a shoo-in and wanted to hop on the victory train.

With Rex I haven't seen a lot of people that super like Rex. It's more of a liking for Pyra/Mythra and Rex being their way of getting in.

So we're just going to treat Rex like Pokemon and Fire Emblem from now on?

 

[CaptainAmerica]

Since this was on the front page, I want to discuss something I noticed

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Bv2D0fWUc8&feature=emb_title

First, I think Max rambles a bit and says the same thing multiple times. Nonetheless, there was something interesting in what he notes first.

"....because it's Smash Brothers. Because it's now video game All-Stars the game.......Why is Smash as big as it is. Because its not just Nintendo All-Stars anymore. It's video game All-Stars. Smash has now transcended what is just this little Nintendo fighting game into this giant marketing conglomerate game that represents the entire ****ing video game industry. It's not just Smash Bros anymore. It's everything. That's why Smash is as big as it is now. It's video games the game."

What is interesting is his characterization of Smash's growth as becoming a "video game all-star." Moreso the the sheer volume of characters or the fact they brought everyone back. In Max's mind, the growth of Smash Bros is it becoming about video games in general. This isn't an uncommon sentiment but I wonder if people are looking at it wrong.

A lot of this seems to have grown from the DLC, where Nintendo is willing to go all out, and with Ultimate's extra content like Bomberman and Monster Hunter. At the end of 2019, this sentiment was the strongest it has ever been. The assumption was the next character was Doomguy, or Crash or Dante. But then Nintendo throws a curveball, by adding one of their own characters. Then, who starts off Volume 2 isn't another hype third party characters but a fighter from ARMS. In fact, there is a possibility that Volume 2 could be chock full of Nintendo characters. This would fly right in the face of Smash as a video game allstar.

The way I see Smash, in its current form, is Nintendo and Friends. Nintendo characters still make up the majority of the roster, and with ARMS and Byleth, Nintendo is still intent on adding its own characters to Smash. Even still, a lot of the guest characters added were from classic NES games (Megaman and Simon) and ones Nintendo published (Banjo and Bayonetta). But the prevailing idea is that it's not about Nintendo but about video game all-stars. This hasn't been helped by Sakurai as he has pushed this idea with Smash Ultimate's DLC.

My thought is that if Volume 2 does go down more of a Nintendo path, what would these people think? Max is someone who, from what I've seen, got into Smash with the addition of Cloud. His view of Smash Brothers seems to be tied to this idea that Smash Bros has transcended Nintendo. And what happens when they don't. It's clear Nintendo adds who they want. They were willing to do a ton of hype third party characters for Volume 1 but they may scale it back in Volume 2 in order to hold onto the profits. But the hype for DLC is, again, predicated on this idea Max presents. Like Max, a lot of people have come into Smash just because it's "Video Games the Game" as Max describes it. What happens when that doesn't come to pass? I'm not sure but it's something to think about at least.

My potentially hot take on this is that if Smash is truly meant to be an all star lineup then it needs at least 1 Sony and PC gaming rep. Otherwise it feels like its missing a major company and a major genre of games. After that you can tackle stuff like indie reps, a full blooded Microsoft rep, Horror reps, etc. But without those two it feels like the claim is in an "Almost, but not quite yet" type of deal.

I could also offer another potentially hot take on Smash as a "all-stars of gaming" crossover: there needs to be more representation of stuff that originated from outside Japan.

So far, we do have a few western characters in smash: Diddy/K.Rool/Dark Samus (all from Nintendo's home franchises, with development outsourced to the West, and all three from franchises that Nintendo really doesn't seem to focus on) and Banjo-Kazooie (dormant franchise, formerly a Nintendo exclusive from a 2nd-party Nintendo company that was bought out). Not to mention a few indie Mii costumes/spirits. And that's about it for Western content. In short, there's nothing that really screams 'Western!' in Smash right now. Even the third parties we got lean heavily to Sony and PlayStation exclusives.

I don't think it's possible to consider a gaming crossover while excluding entire regions of the planet, or at least only acknowledging them insofar as they relate directly to Japanese gaming.

Yes, Nintendo pretty well saved video games back in the 80s, but the gaming scene in the West has gotten massive. And it's not like the Japanese don't play Western games either...

 

[Lamperouge]

Given its brought up. I'd like to ask everyone? Who do you prefer more?

Elma or Rex?

Me, I prefer Elma.

Elma: 3 (Me, Rie and Non)
Rex: 0

So far Elma's in the lead. I'll tally it up once it runs its course of people quoting their opinion.

I know practically nothing about Elma besides her guest appearance in XC2 as a Blade and haven't played XCX (Switch port pls), so I cast my vote for Rex. Her design is still really cool, though.

 

[GoodGrief741]

Given its brought up. I'd like to ask everyone? Who do you prefer more?

Elma or Rex?

Me, I prefer Elma.

Elma: 3 (Me, Rie and Non)
Rex: 0

So far Elma's in the lead. I'll tally it up once it runs its course of people quoting their opinion.

I found X to be kind of disappointing and Elma to be dreadfully boring as a character. I much prefer Rex.

 

[Ura]

#ElmaGang

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Now see, I have beaten all three Xenoblade games and put lots of time into the sidequests for all three games.

I like Elma and Rex so either of them is okay by me.

That said, off this site, I think you'll find Rex to be the more popular one. Especially in Japan.

XCX isn't actually that well liked in Japan.

 

[RouffWestie]

Going back to the third party representation topic and how far their inclusions break this game from being a Nintendo crossover to an overall gaming icon crossover; how would you rank the third parties from the most Nintendo to the least Nintendo (excluding Pokémon in which all of its characters would top the list)

mine:

1. Bayonetta
2. Banjo and Kazooie
3. Simon Belmont
4. Mega Man
5. Hero
6. Ryu
7. Ken
8. Sonic
9. Pac-Man
10. Terry
11. Snake
12. Richter Belmont
13. Cloud
14. Joker

1. Mega Man
2. Simon
3. Hero
4. Banjo and Kazooie
5. Ryu
6. Ken
7. Sonic
8. Pac-Man
9. Bayonetta
10. Snake
11. Richter
12. Terry
13. Cloud
14. Joker

 

[Will]

So Pac-Man is 40 now, huh? Obviously this means the obligatory new DLC character, Mrs. Pac-Man.

 

[zeldasmash]

Going back to the third party representation topic and how far their inclusions break this game from being a Nintendo crossover to an overall gaming icon crossover; how would you rank the third parties from the most Nintendo to the least Nintendo (excluding Pokémon in which all of its characters would top the list)

mine:

1. Bayonetta
2. Banjo and Kazooie
3. Simon Belmont
4. Mega Man
5. Hero
6. Ryu
7. Ken
8. Sonic
9. Pac-Man
10. Terry
11. Snake
12. Richter Belmont
13. Cloud
14. Joker

1. Bayonetta
2. Banjo & Kazooie
3. Simon
4. Mega Man
5. Pac-Man
6. Ryu
7. Ken
8. Sonic
9. Hero
10. Terry
11. Richter
12. Snake
13. Joker
14. Cloud

Very similar list to yours. I was close to putting Banjo above Bayonetta.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

how would you rank the third parties from the most Nintendo to the least Nintendo (excluding Pokémon in which all of its characters would top the list)

I'm not sure why you're implying Pokemon is third party. It blatantly isn't and Nintendo owns part of the Pokemon franchise. It'd better be described as "second party" even though I hate that term.

 

[Simplythe1]

Rex all the way, I love xenoblade 2 and he's my favorite character in the game, I know he's not perfect, but then again no character is, I can see why people aren't too fond of him, but still he HAS his fans (maybe im just unlucky that most of my most wanted seem to be...well unwanted)

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Rex all the way, I love xenoblade 2 and he's my favorite character in the game, I know he's not perfect, but then again no character is, I can see why people aren't too fond of him, but still he HAS his fans (maybe im just unlucky that most of my most wanted seem to be...well unwanted)

I wouldn't say Rex is unwanted.

Other places like Twitter, Youtube, and even Gamefaqs tend to like Rex more.

SWF just doesn't seem to like him that much.

 

[Cap'n Jack]

I'm not sure why you're implying Pokemon is third party. It blatantly isn't and Nintendo owns part of the Pokemon franchise. It'd better be described as "second party" even though I hate that term.

I guess because Bayonetta kinda falls on this category and Banjo used to outright belong in this category

 

[Perkilator]

Today is Pacman's birthday.

There was a problem fetching the tweet

There was a problem fetching the tweet

Speaking of which, I don’t think SmashBoards made a news article for it…?

 

[Swamp Sensei]

I guess because Bayonetta kinda falls on this category and Banjo used to outright belong in this category

Ah, there's a big difference between Bayonetta's case and Pokemon's case though.

For Pokemon, its the IP that Nintendo partially owns. For anyone to use Pokemon, they have to get Nintendo's permission and pay Nintendo a cut.

For Bayonetta, Sega owns the IP. Nintendo just has rights to Bayonetta 2 and 3. The first Bayonetta and the IP isn't owned by Nintendo at all. This is why it showed up on Steam not too long ago.

Banjo Kazooie used to be in the same situation as Pokemon but then Microsoft bought rights to the IP. Nintendo then sold their half of the IP cause they realized they couldn't do much with it when a direct competitor owned the other half.

 

[Cosmic77]

Even if Nintendo doesn't completely own the Pokemon franchise, they do own the rights to all 890 Pokemon.

Basically, every Pokemon from Abra to Zygarde qualifies as a Nintendo character, so there's really no point in ranking them from most to least "Nintendo".

 

[Perkilator]

Even if Nintendo doesn't completely own the Pokemon franchise, they do own the rights to all 890 Pokemon.

Basically, every Pokemon from Abra to Zygarde qualifies as a Nintendo character, so there's really no point in ranking them from most to least "Nintendo".

What about the human characters who debuted in the games? There’s a noticeable lack thereof save for the . No Spirits OR Assist Trophies* based on the major human characters.

*Pokémon Ranger is my choice for an Assist Trophy, btw.

 

[Mushroomguy12]

So Pac-Man is 40 now, huh? Obviously this means the obligatory new DLC character, Mrs. Pac-Man.

*Ms. Pac-Man

 

[Swamp Sensei]

*Ms. Pac-Man

Yeah, that's her actual title.

That said, I'm honestly not sure if Miss or Mrs. better describes Ms. Pac-Man.

Are they married?

 

[Cosmic77]

What about the human characters who debuted in the games? There’s a noticeable lack thereof save for the . No Spirits OR Assist Trophies* based on the major human characters.

*Pokémon Ranger is my choice for an Assist Trophy, btw.

I know they also own the rights to the name "Pokemon" as well as most of the names for specific Pokemon games (Pokemon Red, Pokemon Pearl, Pokemon Sword, etc.).

I don't really know if they've trademarked the human characters.

 

[ZephyrZ]

What about the human characters who debuted in the games? There’s a noticeable lack thereof save for the . No Spirits OR Assist Trophies* based on the major human characters.

*Pokémon Ranger is my choice for an Assist Trophy, btw.

We had trainer trophies in Smash 4 and earlier.

I think the reason for the lack of assists at least is because almost all human characters in Pokémon use Pokémon to fight, and we already have a pokeball item for that.

 

[Mushroomguy12]

So Pac-Man is 40 now, huh? Obviously this means the obligatory new DLC character, Mrs. Pac-Man.

Got her render and theme all ready too.

 

[Schnee117]

We had trainer trophies in Smash 4 and earlier.

I think the reason for the lack of assists at least is because almost all human characters in Pokémon use Pokémon to fight, and we already have a pokeball item for that.

I'd find it amusing if we were to get a Trainer or a Professor as an assist trophy and their thing is to just spawn a bunch of Poke Balls all at once.

 

[Mamboo07]

Given its brought up. I'd like to ask everyone? Who do you prefer more?

Elma or Rex?

Me, I prefer Elma.

Elma: 3 (Me, Rie and Non)
Rex: 0

So far Elma's in the lead. I'll tally it up once it runs its course of people quoting their opinion.

Elma, I wouldn't mind her in Smash over anime sword boy and big tiddy waifu.

 

[Jomosensual]

I could also offer another potentially hot take on Smash as a "all-stars of gaming" crossover: there needs to be more representation of stuff that originated from outside Japan.

Forgot about western reps but I completely agree. If we're aiming for the best possible characters there's a lot of good picks out there who get no buzz for Smash because of the eastern bias. Someone like Dovahkiin, Master Chief, or Big Daddy(just naming a few because I'm tired and can't think, there's for sure more) would be really good picks and blow a lot of the names we were hearing back in December out of the water by a ton.