Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[Shroob]

dae hate anything not nintendo??? 3rd parties bad, only nintendogs characters from now on pls

upvotes to the left

Admit it though

You'd main Border Collie in a heartbeat.

 

[osby]

dae hate anything not nintendo??? 3rd parties bad, only nintendogs characters from now on pls

upvotes to the left

Okay but cartoony third parties are OK they count Nintendo

because

i say so

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Regarding the second point, imagine if the next Avengers movie included Goku, the Power Rangers, and a bunch of other random stuff, only because they're kind of super heroes too and they decided to expand the crossover from Marvel only to superheroes in general. Would you like it? I mean, maybe they manage to make something cool out of this concept, but it would be a completely different thing, expect less coherence, more clashing stuff and more quantity over quality. This is how I feel about Smash and the flood of third party franchises.

That's not really what I meant by "keep expanding on the 3rd parties". Video games are too broad of a scope to then add alternative media to it, and it would be a huge departure from what has been added so far. But as far as video game characters are concerned though, there's nothing wrong with 3rd party characters in my opinion, and I don't personally see how they make the game less coherent or clash with other franchises involved since they are pretty well assimilated into Super Smash Bros.'s current artstyle. I mean sure, Snake looks a little silly next to Kirby, but it's Super Smash Bros. I just shot you with a banana and you flew offscreen and died. The difference in character design adds to the fun rather than detracts from it, especially since people know what they're in for when they pick up a crossover game.

So while I don't want them to take over the game, I don't understand why they're a problem inherently.

 

[Hinata]

Admit it though

You'd main Border Collie in a heartbeat.

Nah, I'll wait for the inevitable Nintencat Echo Fighter.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Unfortunately, a lot of people now assume a moveset can only be unique if it's all about transferring a character's origin game mechanics into Smash.

To be fair, the only characters that don't do this are the one who has no game, and the one who's game mechanics are "I can press one button to go left and the other to go right and it also tells time".

 

[Ben Holt]

Nah, I'll wait for the inevitable Nintencat Echo Fighter.

Excuse me. I happen to have both a dog and a cat. I can CONFIRM that they are not compatible as Echo Fighters.

 

[Shroob]

Excuse me. I happen to have both a dog and a cat. I can CONFIRM that they are not compatible as Echo Fighters.
View attachment 272410

Mate, that a shih-tzu or a lhasa? My dog looks exactly like that, bless her soul she's 17 now.

 

[Ben Holt]

Mate, that a shih-tzu or a lhasa? My dog looks exactly like that, bless her soul she's 17 now.

Don't go censor dodging! My pupper is a Poop-Tzu.
And their names are Wily and Shadow, both Assist Trophies.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Excuse me. I happen to have both a dog and a cat. I can CONFIRM that they are not compatible as Echo Fighters.

Ugh. This is such a weak argument. They both eat, sleep, poop, and give you comfort with just slight variations. They could easily combine their sense of smell and demonic ritual gimmicks together.

 

[Hinata]

Excuse me. I happen to have both a dog and a cat. I can CONFIRM that they are not compatible as Echo Fighters.

Well, that's just a lack of imagination on your part.

 

[Staarih]

I think it’s a given Splatoon gets more reps at some point, maybe even as DLC depending on where they want to take the second pass. With Splatoon 2 hitting 10mil sold it has solidified its position as one of the top Nintendo franchises at the moment. I feel like Octoling is the obvious choice for the next rep, but many seem to be stuck on the idea of them being only Echo-material. Honestly, it wouldn’t surprise me one bit to see a unique Octoling (or just some other Splatoon character) pop up in this pass.

 

[Iko MattOrr]

That's not really what I meant by "keep expanding on the 3rd parties". Video games are too broad of a scope to then add alternative media to it, and it would be a huge departure from what has been added so far. But as far as video game characters are concerned though, there's nothing wrong with 3rd party characters in my opinion, and I don't personally see how they make the game less coherent or clash with other franchises involved since they are pretty well assimilated into Super Smash Bros.'s current artstyle. I mean sure, Snake looks a little silly next to Kirby, but it's Super Smash Bros. I just shot you with a banana and you flew offscreen and died. The difference in character design adds to the fun rather than detracts from it, especially since people know what they're in for when they pick up a crossover game.

So while I don't want them to take over the game, I don't understand why they're a problem inherently.

I didn't say they are a problem, I said I prefer if the focus stays on first party and third parties, if added, are treated as guest star like Snake in Brawl.

What I'm saying is that 4/5 characters of the first fighter pass were third parties. Maybe a little more balance wouldn't have been too bad.

Also people implying that I dislike third parties are just assuming without knowing.

 

[Ben Holt]

Ugh. This is such a weak argument. They both eat, sleep, poop, and give you comfort with just slight variations. They could easily combine their sense of smell and demonic ritual gimmicks together.

How would you feel if someone started calling you "SMAASH! Kitten" because close enough?

I think it’s a given Splatoon gets more reps at some point, maybe even as DLC depending on where they want to take the second pass. With Splatoon 2 hitting 10mil sold it has solidified its position as one of the top Nintendo franchises at the moment. I feel like Octoling is the obvious choice for the next rep, but many seem to be stuck on the idea of them being only Echo-material. Honestly, it wouldn’t surprise me one bit to see a unique Octoling (or just some other Splatoon character) pop up in this pass.

I too would enjoy a Luigified Octoling, but they fit the prime definition of what SHOULD be an Echo Fighter, as they are literally function the same as the Fighter they would echo.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

How would you feel if someone started calling you "SMAASH! Kitten" because close enough?

I would politely correct them that my name is SMAASH! Puppy because I'm using the default costume.

EDIT: Besides, the misconception would be a very small price to pay for the demon powers.

 

[Staarih]

I too would enjoy a Luigified Octoling, but they fit the prime definition of what SHOULD be an Echo Fighter, as they are literally function the same as the Fighter they would echo.

I see where you’re coming from. I guess they could just take the route of focusing on the weapons not yet represented in the Inkling’s moveset in order to make it different.

Would be kinda funny though to have a very Echo-esque character made unique instead of some of the already existing Echoes. Could totally see it happen still.

 

[GoodGrief741]

I am kind of impressed no one has actually talked about the possibility of a Splatoon 2 rep

I take it you haven't met Rie then

 

[Knight Dude]

quick, pick a Ryu to join Smash
View attachment 272370
and yes, if it isn’t phoenix or bof ryu I won’t respect you

And I can't respect you for not respecting Hayabusa.

Y’know completely unrelated to... whatever the hell is going on above but I think that there’s a solid possibility the character after ARMS will be a really big character. I’m talking like Master Chief or Lara Croft big because, this ARMS character is getting released when Fighter 7 SHOULD have been revealed, whether CO-Vid has effected it or not who knows, which means 7 and potentially 8 would’ve been the E3 Reveals.

With that in mind who do we think the character could be that would make the biggest splash? Someone like Geno for fan favoritism that has been at E3 with Ridley and Banjo? Or someone out of nowhere like Joker? Who are your guesses?

Croft, Hayabusa, Crash, or a Mishima would my "realistic" hopes or guesses for that. All from fairly iconic or notable franchises. Mega Man was a pretty big reveal, and so was Hero/Banjo. I would say the same for Ridley too, since Metroid's are large enough franchise. Really there's other big Capcom characters too like Phoenix and Dante.

Not sure if Microsoft would double dip, but if they did, a lot of people expect either Master Chief or Steve. Of course the real answer should be Fulgore, but it is what it is.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

I don't like the art style argument just because...

Well, so few of these art styles fit well as it is. Pokemon would look absurd in Zelda. Mario characters wouldn't fit in Fire Emblem. Star Fox characters would be bizarre in Kirby. Pretty much only Metroid characters fit in Metroid.

But the thing is... That's the whole point of a crossover. It's a mixmatching of things that normally wouldn't work together.

So, the whole "third parties have art styles that don't work with Nintendo characters" is absolutely true but... so what? What does that matter?

 

[Ben Holt]

I don't like the art style argument just because...

Well, so few of these art styles fit well as it is. Pokemon would look absurd in Zelda. Mario characters wouldn't fit in Fire Emblem. Star Fox characters would be bizarre in Kirby. Pretty much only Metroid characters fit in Metroid.

But the thing is... That's the whole point of a crossover. It's a mixmatching of things that normally wouldn't work together.

So, the whole "third parties have art styles that don't work with Nintendo characters" is absolutely true but... so what? What does that matter?

If Mario, Link, Snake, Cloud, Pokémon Trainer, Marth, Joker, and Erdrick can all be human characters with completely different artstyles yet all mesh well in a mascot fighting game, then anyone can fit in.

 

[Mamboo07]

quick, pick a Ryu to join Smash
View attachment 272370
and yes, if it isn’t phoenix or bof ryu I won’t respect you

Dragonite!

 

[osby]

I don't like the art style argument just because...

Well, so few of these art styles fit well as it is. Pokemon would look absurd in Zelda. Mario characters wouldn't fit in Fire Emblem. Star Fox characters would be bizarre in Kirby. Pretty much only Metroid characters fit in Metroid.

But the thing is... That's the whole point of a crossover. It's a mixmatching of things that normally wouldn't work together.

So, the whole "third parties have art styles that don't work with Nintendo characters" is absolutely true but... so what? What does that matter?

Adding to that: Ultimate is pretty good at mixing up different styles. Cartoony characters look more realistic (compare Peach's proportions in Smash to Mario games) and realistic characters have are more animated.

If Mario, Link, Snake, Cloud, Pokémon Trainer, Marth, Joker, and Erdrick can all be human characters with completely different artstyles yet all mesh well in a mascot fighting game, then anyone can fit in.

*spit take*

Human characters can have different art styles?! I thought they were all anime?!

 

[Swamp Sensei]

I thought they were all anime?!

Even anime styles can be different.

I mean just compare to to.

 

[Cosmic77]

I can say from experience that a lot of people misunderstand people who prefer first-parties over third-parties and assume that their argument is essentially, "Third-parties are bad! Our Nintendo favorites are superior!"

I don't mind a few third-parties sprinkled here and there, but I fell in love with Smash because it was a Nintendo crossover. I grew up with mostly Nintendo consoles, so it should be no surprise that Nintendo characters are who I have the most connection with. Does that mean I think we shouldn't get more third-parties? Of course not. That being said, I'd like for Smash to keep its focus on Nintendo, not because I don't want to be inclusive, but rather because shifting the focus to adding mostly third-parties isn't the direction I'd like to see Smash go in. It makes things so broad that the odds of a character I like getting one of the limited ten or so slots are significantly smaller than if we just focused on first-parties.

That's just how I personally would like to see Smash be handled in the future. I understand that some people might be done with Nintendo characters because the abundance of notable and iconic third-parties out there makes everything else look small by comparison. It's fine if you feel that way, but I see a lot of untapped potential in Nintendo characters. Since I have the greatest attachment to those franchises, those are the ones I'm naturally going to favor.

 

[Knight Dude]

I don't like the art style argument just because...

Well, so few of these art styles fit well as it is. Pokemon would look absurd in Zelda. Mario characters wouldn't fit in Fire Emblem. Star Fox characters would be bizarre in Kirby. Pretty much only Metroid characters fit in Metroid.

But the thing is... That's the whole point of a crossover. It's a mixmatching of things that normally wouldn't work together.

So, the whole "third parties have art styles that don't work with Nintendo characters" is absolutely true but... so what? What does that matter?

Yeah, you don't hear this for Marvel vs Capcom very often. And Capcom's game franchises vary widly. Heck, even Marvel Comics does to some extent. Like you wouldn't expect immediately The Kingpin, Nightcrawler, Ghost Rider and Rocket Raccoon to be from the same company without prior knowledge I don't think.

Mario's got its own look. Metroid is grittier with a slight anime twist. Mega Man is Astroboy/Cassern inspired, Street Fighter has swole Karate dudes. Castlevania is mostly either inspired by Classic Films or Gothic art. F-Zero is inspired by American comic books, Zelda has had at least 8 different art-styles, Punch-Out is pretty cartoony, but less so than Mario. Xenoblade and FE are big anime. Kirby has a bunch of puffballs and StarFox is Thunderbirds but with animals.

Point is, Sub-Zero standing next to Pikachu isn't that weird any more.

 

[AEMehr]

as game developers its part of the job for them to alter character appearances to make them mesh well into the game w/ each other.

i mean look at pit from brawl who literally got a completely new look designed solely for smash, or how meta knight has metal pads on his gloves in smash. each character gets their design tweaked to mesh with the art style.
- - -
now if you try to attribute a way a character behaves, thats different. cant have scorpion performing a mk11 styled fatality on someone or doomguy gibbing people with his rocket launchers or something. thats the stuff that needs to be approached carefully.

 

[Cosmic77]

Jumping in on the conversation about a Splatoon 2 rep.

Short and sweet, it could happen. There are lots of unused weapons that aren't in Inkling's moveset.

Splatoon has been a massive hit for Nintendo, and seeing how they're currently in the process of bringing back players by reviving Splatfests, I wouldn't put it past them to use Smash as a means to promote Splatoon 2 like they did with ARMS.

 

[Evil Trapezium]

quick, pick a Ryu to join Smash
View attachment 272370
and yes, if it isn’t phoenix or bof ryu I won’t respect you

Dragonite because it's better than lame Charizard. Besides we could all use a real dragon in Smash bros.

 

[ZelDan]

complaining about third party art styles seems weird, when a good chunk of third parties wouldn't really be weird compared to certain first party characters.

Hero and Cloud don't stick out like a sore thumb when we have characters like Shulk and the FE characters

Master Chief wouldn't stand out anymore than Samus would

Banjo is a colorful, cartoony animal character similar to DK and Yoshi.

etc etc.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Yeah, you don't hear this for Marvel vs Capcom very often. And Capcom's game franchises vary widly. Heck, even Marvel Comics does to some extent. Like you wouldn't expect immediately The Kingpin, Nightcrawler, Ghost Rider and Rocket Raccoon to be from the same company without prior knowledge I don't think.

Which is why the decision to go as realistic as possible was a weird one since it makes well liked characters on both sides look pretty gross.

I mean, it was weird when Super Smash Bros. did it too but at least it just amounted to them looking less colorful.

 

[smashkirby]

pic.twitter.com/zK8G4H9BBo

— 桜井 政博 / Masahiro Sakurai (@Sora_Sakurai) May 22, 2020

Get your Thanos memes out

MASTER CORE???

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Dragonite because it's better than lame Charizard. Besides we could all use a real dragon in Smash bros.

weeps in dragon.

REEEEEES in dragon.

wonders if he even counts...

 

[osby]

weeps in dragon.

REEEEEES in dragon.

wonders if he even counts...

Corrin isn't even the only FE character who is kinda but not really a dragon.

I'd also argue Bowser might be considered as a one given his similarity to Tarasque and Eastern dragons.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Corrin isn't even the only FE character who is kinda but not really a dragon.

I'd argue Corrin's status as a "half dragon" should count as a full dragon considering FE dragons can easily shift between human and dragon forms with the use of a dragon stone. Corrin does this all the time.

 

[Speed Weed]

Hey guys. I got a real interesting piece of information from a contact of mine. We've been in touch since around 2018 when I was working on the Leaks Archive, and we've become pretty good friends since then. They gave me some correct info pre-base and corroborated some DLC info so I trust them. I was spitballing with them about something and it turns out I might be on to something according to them.

Anyways, remember back when Hitagi was spouting **** about Katalina being in? An interesting thing about the Japanese language is that the L and R letters can typically be swapped (for example, the English and Japanese versions of Little Witch Academia refer to a professor as Finnelan and Finneran respectively). Given that Hitagi was clearly unsure about their info, I got to thinking "what if Katalina was actually Katarina?" I was talking to my friend about this and they said I was on to something, so I kept going.

Anyways, there's a new show I've been watching called My Next Life as a Villainess. The main character of the show is called Katarina Claes. I was honestly joking when I threw it out, but my friend ****in' spilled that she's in serious consideration for a playable spot because, let's be real, this is so incredibly ridiculous no one's ever going to believe it.

And, I know what you're all thinking "anime debut? invalid." BUT WAIT.

The show's world takes place inside a video game called Fortune Lover. A game that's actually being released a lá Wreck It Ralph. There's room for technicality here that means there's a chance. The series as a whole is ongoing and surprisingly popular, so it'd make sense from a marketing standpoint, as well as providing representation for the Virtual Novel genre.

My friend even gave me a mockup of the trailer. Obviously it's not the actual trailer, but apparently it's really close. I've spoilered the link below.

Spoiler

https://streamable.com/hn2ii8

Maybe I'll write up a larger speculation piece on this later, but it's late right now and I should probably get going to bed. I figured I'd stop by quick before then to share the news and maybe stir up conversation.

corn you're scaring me

 

[Evil Trapezium]

weeps in dragon.

REEEEEES in dragon.

wonders if he even counts...

Yeah when Ridley can find out his canonical species name and Corrin can be a dragon for the entire match, then they can weep and scream in dragon.

 

[TechPowah]

I guess they could just take the route of focusing on the weapons not yet represented in the Inkling’s moveset in order to make it different.

Oh right, just like they did for Dark Pit, i get it






wait a minute

 

[Koopaul]

Ah the "Is Smash a celebration of gaming or celebration of Nintendo" argument.

So it's clear Nintendo and Sakurai want Smash to be a celebration of gaming and a gaming crossover. And I'm fine with that. I have no problem with more 3rd parties. If they want this to be an epic gaming crossover of history then good for them.

The problem is, if that's what they're going for... it's kind of a bad one. If this is truly a celebration of gaming as a whole then it barely scratches the surface. And 90% of the content focuses on Nintendo. I think it's unfair to consider it a general gaming crossover. Not because I'm against the idea, but because it really is mostly a Nintendo crossover game. And it doesn't matter what Nintendo or Sakurai think it is. That's just what it is. Maybe if the series gets a reboot they can start the series over with more 3rd parties in mind.

 

[osby]

Ah the "Is Smash a celebration of gaming or celebration of Nintendo" argument.

So it's clear Nintendo and Sakurai want Smash to be a celebration of gaming and a gaming crossover. And I'm fine with that. I have no problem with more 3rd parties. If they want this to be an epic gaming crossover of history then good for them.

The problem is, if that's what they're going for... it's kind of a bad one. If this is truly a celebration of gaming as a whole then it barely scratches the surface. And 90% of the content focuses on Nintendo. I think it's unfair to consider it a general gaming crossover. Not because I'm against the idea, but because it really is mostly a Nintendo crossover game. And it doesn't matter what Nintendo or Sakurai think it is. That's just what it is. Maybe if the series gets a reboot they can start the series over with more 3rd parties in mind.

Regardless of how much Nintendo focus there is, Smash is still one of the biggest video game crossover in terms of included franchises and companies. I don't think a lack of emphasis on one particular aspect would necessarily make it bigger.

So, unpopular opinion but yeah, Smash can both celebrate Nintendo's history and overall gaming and it's done a pretty good job at both imo. I think a lot of people are underestimating how much of a big deal having in the same game.

 

[DarthEnderX]

Dragonite because it's better than lame Charizard. Besides we could all use a real dragon in Smash bros.

Charizard is vastly superior to the Barney-ass lookin' Dragonite.

But you're right, we could use a real Dragon-type. Named Garchomp.

 

[Staarih]

Oh right, just like they did for Dark Pit, i get it






wait a minute

Starting out as a costume and made into a last minute clone =/= developed as unique from the get-go.
It’s just a hypothesis of what they could do with the Octoling if they were to decide to have it as DLC now, as it isn’t an Echo (yet). If Dark Pit was originally developed as his own entity, the different weapons would likely be there.