Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[Garteam]

Colour Splash's dialogue was 10/10, but the plot itself was about a 2/10. In my opinion, the perfect Paper Mario would have the wit of Colour Splash, the creativity of Thousand Year Door/Super Paper Mario, and the world building of the original Paper Mario.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

I'd say the writing was actually the best in the series.

That moment did amuse me, as did the one where all the Toads yelled at you because they had a bad day. It may be that I just wasn't engaged with the plot or gameplay at all.

That... that can’t be a legit screenshot. No way, I refuse to believe it

It's as real as Beep-o being all like "#%$@#&!!!" when seeing Toadette for the second time because it meant more escort missions.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Colour Splash's dialogue was 10/10, but the plot itself was about a 2/10. In my opinion, the perfect Paper Mario would have the wit of Colour Splash, the creativity of Thousand Year Door/Super Paper Mario, and the world building of the original Paper Mario.

This nails it well. The gameplay is better than SS by a bit, but still suffers a lot. The level ups weren't good enough, nor what people wanted. Super Paper Mario made the level ups a bit different, but made up for it enough with unique character choices and Pixls to get around the lack of equipment/badges.

CS is still a great game in its own right and all, sure as hell better than SS(and I like SS!) overall. Writing isn't enough to save an rpg. In fact, gameplay is the core thing. Good writing/story/characterization is more like a secondary part. If the gameplay tanks, a great story/etc. won't make it a good game for a lot of people. Who can even get to the story if the gameplay is too terrible? Some will try, but many will fail, get frustrated, and just watch the story on Youtube instead. SS and CS weren't awful gameplay by any means on their own, but living up to the previous games wasn't possible at that point. It needs just more gameplay updates. One thing to do is give your basic jump/hammer moves without using stickers/gimmicks in the first place. Another is just the regular level up system(it's okay to not have badges, but having to search for HP is rather obnoxious. Even Zelda II did it better with the defense system effectively making your health "more", and it had a proper level up system too. Obviously the gameplay is very derisive too).

 

[Cosmic77]

That... that can’t be a legit screenshot. No way, I refuse to believe it

There's also this scene when some Shy Guys sneak into the ladies section of the hot springs.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Super Paper Mario made the level ups a bit different, but made up for it enough with unique character choices and Pixls to get around the lack of equipment/badges.

And you know, the core gameplay loop was actually fun. But anyway, continue.

CS is still a great game in its own right and all, sure as hell better than SS(and I like SS!) overall. Writing isn't enough to save an rpg. In fact, gameplay is the core thing. Good writing/story/characterization is more like a secondary part. If the gameplay tanks, a great story/etc. won't make it a good game for a lot of people. Who can even get to the story if the gameplay is too terrible? Some will try, but many will fail, get frustrated, and just watch the story on Youtube instead. SS and CS weren't awful gameplay by any means on their own, but living up to the previous games wasn't possible at that point. It needs just more gameplay updates. One thing to do is give your basic jump/hammer moves without using stickers/gimmicks in the first place. Another is just the regular level up system(it's okay to not have badges, but having to search for HP is rather obnoxious. Even Zelda II did it better with the defense system effectively making your health "more", and it had a proper level up system too. Obviously the gameplay is very derisive too).

Color Splash would have had actually good combat if they took a approach similar to Wizard 101: You build a deck, and then in battle you get these cards randomly and have to strategize based on what cards you draw. Also get rid of the part where you have to either use a guide, or trial and error your way through the boss fights because you can't beat them without the correct arbitrary Thing Card. That is such a bad design I can't believe they did it twice.

EDIT: I agree with your point on story by the way. I also think using the Koopalings was a mistake, as people were already starting to tire of them beforehand due to them taking over every game they appear in that isn't a Super Smash Bros. game.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

And you know, the core gameplay loop was actually fun. But anyway, continue.

I'd describe all of the Paper Mario games as that, since none lacked the core gameplay element to begin with. That doesn't mean it did as well as they could.

Color Splash would have had actually good combat if they took a approach similar to Wizard 101: You build a deck, and then in battle you get these cards randomly and have to strategize based on what cards you draw. Also get rid of the part where you have to either use a guide, or trial and error your way through the boss fights because you can't beat them without the correct arbitrary Thing Card. That is such a bad design I can't believe they did it twice.

Yeah, the boss thing was bad, no questioning that. But I liked having any card available regardless. I'd rather not have a lackluster or super limited selection. As I said, not having your basic attack available for free is the core issue with it. Having tons of options is fine, just like your general rpg.

Things are cool when they happen, but they were very annoying to figure out every tiny way to properly use them. Inventory system for SS is fairly bad to begin with(though to be fair, consumable inventories were always small in PM games beforehand. SS had an actual big one for once).

I could still enjoy each one I played because the core gameplay still existed. Just wasn't, as noted, done well enough. I do miss the partners and badges(moreso the badges), though. But hey, who knows what'll come next.

But back to Smash stuff, I think it'd be great for Paper Mario to incorporate more than just the first three games. Thing cards are hilariously good and fit well even as a Final Smash alone. Or taunts if applicable(like Birdo singing with Paper Mario). You have bits and pieces from each game that are quite unique and make his character interesting, along with a plethora of options~

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

There's also this scene when some Shy Guys sneak into the ladies section of the hot springs.

I don't think I saw that moment. lol

Doesn't hold a candle to the entire game show that took place in the ladies' restroom after finding Merlovelee in the toilet though.

But back to Smash stuff, I think it'd be great for Paper Mario to incorporate more than just the first three games. Thing cards are hilariously good and fit well even as a Final Smash alone. Or taunts if applicable(like Birdo singing with Paper Mario). You have bits and pieces from each game that are quite unique and make his character interesting, along with a plethora of options~

I think there should be a successor to Thing Stickers/Cards in the next Paper Mario game it'd be super fun to have something like that as a sort of Final Fantasyesque summoning system.

In Smash, Thing Cards are the most exciting choice for Paper Mario's Final Smash. I also wouldn't mind Huey appearing alongside the Pixles and Partners in Taunts and such. Not Kirsty though. I didn't like her.

 

[GoodGrief741]

You know, given yesterday's leak, I expected rampant LoL discussion. Instead I find an in-depth discussion of the writing in Paper Mario.

I like this. Carry on.

 

[SirCamp]

Shamelessly stealing this from the "Build your Avengers team!" game on twitter, but I'm generally unoriginal so I think this should work out:

Build your own Smash DLC!

The rules are simple. You get $15 to spend on your selection of DLC characters. Every character is priced from $1 to $5 based on no objective criteria beyond my own judgement of "yeah, this seems right here". There's no bonus for having excess money, so try to make every dollar count!

Spoiler: $5

• Dante
• Crash Bandicoot
• Sora
• Master Chief
• Unique Third Party character not listed in the other categories

Spoiler: $4

• 2B
• Phoenix Wright
• Chris/Jill/Leon
• Bandana Waddle Dee
• Waluigi
• Issac
• Kazuma Kiryu
• Lloyd Irving
• Geno
• Doom Marine
• Ryu Hayabusa
• Unique Nintendo character not listed in the other categories

Spoiler: $3

• Rex and Pyra
• Sol Badguy
• Travis Touchdown
• Heihachi
• Ray-Man
• Monster Hunter
• Amaterasu
• Lara Croft
• Steve
• Dixie Kong
• Neku

Spoiler: $2

• Paper Mario
• Gen 8 Pokemon of your choosing
• Sub-Zero/Scorpion
• Arle
• Shantae
• Porky
• Elma
• KOS-MOS
• Skull Kid
• Reimu
• Bomberman
• A Ken-style Echo Fighter of your choosing

Spoiler: $1

• Bubsy
• Gex
• Tingle
• Shiori Fujisaki
• Breath of the Wild Zelda
• Sandbag
• Daisy/Richter-style echo of your choosing

This is so easy for me the way you have set up. I can get basically my ideal pass.

Isaac - $4
Dixie Kong - $3
Bomberman - $2
Farmer (random unlisted 3rd Party) - $5
Tingle - $1

The first 4 listed are my top 4 wants and while tingle isn’t my 5th most wanted, he is legitimately close. And after my top 4 it drops off significantly anyway. If I could actually afford my ideal it would be either Impa, Goemon, or Captain Syrup in the last spot.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Paper Mario could be possible?

Man I hope that's true. Also League of Legends character. If true Sakurai pulled it off once more with his unpredictability.

According to this, Valve and Nintendo had a meeting and Valve was offered six figures to make an exclusive Switch title. Nintendo must really like and respect Valve to do this. Could Gordon coming to Smash have been seriously discussed in the interview?

Gordon Freeman or Heavy/Scout confirmed 4 Smash.

 

[andree123]

So the GameFaqs thread with Vergeben claiming that he will check on the hollow knight mii costume and the League of legends rep has been deleted (the entire thread), here is the screencap proof that he said it.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

So the GameFaqs thread with Vergeben claiming that he will check on the hollow knight mii costume and the League of legends rep has been deleted, here is the screencap proof that he said it.

Wonder why he deleted it...?

 

[Michael the Spikester]

So if the League of Legends character is true what character represents the series the best? Could give us an idea who the character could be.

Wonder why he deleted it...?

Probably to avoid the Nintendo Ninjas.

 

[andree123]

Wonder why he deleted it...?

So if the League of Legends character is true what character represents the series the best? Could give us an idea who the character could be.

Probably to avoid the Nintendo Ninjas.

Its the entire thread that was deleted, not vergeben.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Its the entire thread that was deleted, not vergeben.

So a moderator did? Wonder what that could mean

 

[Freduardo]

Anyone see the announcement trailer for Windbound? Looks like a decent new Nintendo IP. And comes out in August.

For those who think promotional picks of upcoming games are possible.

 

[blackghost]

i dont think most peoplewant third parties because they are "better" i think I want third parties more because the possibilities are so much deeper. I dont look at DLC as characters that i need to be attached to I need them to be interesting gameplay-wise. It why when i look at the total DLC the only one i dislike is banjo.
When people start looking at what a nintnedo exclusive pass would look like often the characters chosen dont grab my attention nor do they seem like they'd be interesting to play. only exceptions i've seen have been astral chain, rex or pyra tag team or elma, or a pokken rep in the form of Gengar or something like that. No one is knocking nintendo for wanting thier own characters in thier game but each time a nintendo character has been dlc in ultimate it has been a mixed bag at best.

From my observations, i've found the third party supporters more open to receiving more characters across different franchises while the Nintendo only seems to say Nintendo only but in reality is really looking for one or two franchises within Nintendo to make it in.

 

[RocksteadyBebop]

Anyone see the announcement trailer for Windbound? Looks like a decent new Nintendo IP. And comes out in August.

For those who think promotional picks of upcoming games are possible.

Wind bound isn’t a Nintendo IP.

 

[Freduardo]

Wind bound isn’t a Nintendo IP.

oh that’s a shame. I didn’t see any other developer names in the announcement trailer so I assumed.... but the fact I see there’s also a PS4 announcement trailer confirms it. My bad.

 

[SNEKeater]

Ironically Windbound won't be released on Switch, at least that's what I recall about the game

 

[Garteam]

I don't think I saw that moment. lol

Doesn't hold a candle to the entire game show that took place in the ladies' restroom after finding Merlovelee in the toilet though.

I actually forgot about that moment lol. Between that and Mario Sunshine's Hotel Delfino, the Mario series has a strange affiliation with the women's bathrooms.

I still remember me and my cousin figuring out we could do that in Sunshine. It seemed so oddly taboo. We had must've had the dumbest looks on our faces.

 

[SKX31]

You know, given yesterday's leak, I expected rampant LoL discussion. Instead I find an in-depth discussion of the writing in Paper Mario.

I like this. Carry on.

You know, I'd probably get really tired quickly had the rampant discussion happened. It's not without precedent (I don't want to relive the Brave days).

I'm not surprised though. It's not happening here since LoL is traditionally far removed from the Nintendo sphere. Having been computer-exclusive for the longest time does that. Only recently has Riot started to move.

The biggest connection between LoL (and its sibling Dota 2) and Smash are the e-sports organizations which became MOBA powerhouses and later expanded into pro Smash, providing really enticing amount of money to the top Smash players. Off to the top of my head:

* Cloud9 (Mango)
* TSM (Leffen, Tweek)
* Liquid (HBox, Dabuz)
* Alliance (Armada)
* EG (PPMD)
* T1 (MKLeo)

And that's the type of connection Sakurai doesn't emphasize. So it ain't a surprise people aren't discussing it.

That said, if something starts pointing to that direction (Company leak a la the SNK trademark or heavier hints) then we'll probably see fireworks. As I said in the last page, we need to see actual movement.

So if the League of Legends character is true what character represents the series the best? Could give us an idea who the character could be.

To qoute 3BitSaurus:

Some, like Ashe, Ryze and Garen, are seen as very "basic" characters in their roles and can be seen as part of the "OG" crew of League. Then there's the ones Riot likes to push, like Ahri, Jinx or Lux. I'd say there's some margin for discussion regarding which rep they would choose.

However, I do think that for the most part, a mage character would take precedence, because in general they could represent some of the base mechanics of League better in a crossover fighter imo.

Those generally see the most play in pub matches as well as professional games too. Ahri for example is LoL's Morrigan in a sense (helps that quite a few pros have her as their trademark character). She's not the only popular character (happens with Loads and Loads of Characters), but she's got a major spotlight.

CS is still a great game in its own right and all, sure as hell better than SS(and I like SS!) overall. Writing isn't enough to save an rpg. In fact, gameplay is the core thing. Good writing/story/characterization is more like a secondary part. If the gameplay tanks, a great story/etc. won't make it a good game for a lot of people. Who can even get to the story if the gameplay is too terrible? Some will try, but many will fail, get frustrated, and just watch the story on Youtube instead. SS and CS weren't awful gameplay by any means on their own, but living up to the previous games wasn't possible at that point. It needs just more gameplay updates. One thing to do is give your basic jump/hammer moves without using stickers/gimmicks in the first place. Another is just the regular level up system(it's okay to not have badges, but having to search for HP is rather obnoxious. Even Zelda II did it better with the defense system effectively making your health "more", and it had a proper level up system too. Obviously the gameplay is very derisive too).

While I haven't played either game, I get the distinct impression that Nintendo stuck a bit too closely to the "new ways to play" mentality that's ingrained in their organizational culture. We won't know how many devs were actually (un)happy about SS / CS' gameplay style, but that was evidently the direction higher-ups (incl. high-ranking production staff) wanted to take the series. It reminds me of Star Fox Zero - the idea behind gyro controls are good in theory, but running into practical obstacles easily lead to problems.

I find it a shame - one could do quite a bit with a card system, but it seems to need fine-tuning. Aside from the changes you suggested maybe a balancing system where 2 Hammer cards = choosing between a more powerful attack or one that stuns / inflicts status ailments costing 2 cards. While keeping the normal hammer / jump a basic function.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

So a moderator did? Wonder what that could mean

Maybe leak stuff isn't allowed on GameFAQs due to drama or something? They're really hard to browse right now to figure out their proper forum rules. I'll keep looking. I wouldn't be surprised as is. Any kind of leak technically is data mine information, and it's hard to tell, but that might be prohibited now or something?

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Maybe leak stuff isn't allowed on GameFAQs due to drama or something? They're really hard to browse right now to figure out their proper forum rules. I'll keep looking. I wouldn't be surprised as is. Any kind of leak technically is data mine information, and it's hard to tell, but that might be prohibited now or something?

It certainly wasn’t always that way

 

[Icedragonadam]

Don't forget that if a rumor starts going in-depth on a reason why something will be added to Smash, it's a huge red flag it's fake.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

It certainly wasn’t always that way

Yeah, it seems to be the case;

"Promotes criminal activity, including the spread and use of pirated games or other media"

Leaks are criminal activity due to NDA, last I checked, so that makes sense. And it wasn't. August 2019 is the last update.

Obviously it just means that people are reporting threads correctly now.

 

[Freduardo]

Ironically Windbound won't be released on Switch, at least that's what I recall about the game

based on the switch announcement trailer that hit youtube yesterday (that has no developer credits on it), I’m pretty sure it will.

On a completely different subject:

Check this early design of Rex From mario world.

Spoiler

I am 99% Red was originally evil Yoshi. Frankly the flutter jump makes more sense on him. Can just picture the Super Hammer Bros riding him through some mushrooms

 

[Playstation Guy 1000]

Yoo guys. 4Chan is back at it again, housing Prophets


View attachment 269857

https://boards.4channel.org/v/thread/504535136

a league of legends character would be cool for smash especially with a hero/bowser jr. type of character.

 

[Powerman293]

My question about a League character is how many people are actually gonna care? I mean, LoL is extremely popular, but most people who play it are PC master race type people playing on laptops who would never buy a Switch anyways.

 

[Freduardo]

This thread reminded me Merlee and Merluvlee existed. I think Merlee is in the first three paper mario games.

Is she the key to good paper mario games‽

 

[ZephyrZ]

My question about a League character is how many people are actually gonna care? I mean, LoL is extremely popular, but most people who play it are PC master race type people playing on laptops who would never buy a Switch anyways.

I don't buy the rumor, but to play devil's advocate, there's more crossplatform gamers out there then you might think. Just think about how many people were excited over Cloud or Joker, despite them being primarily PS4 characters. Heck one of the kids I used to sometimes play Smash with in high school was a huge LoLs fan.

The elitist "PC Master Race" is really just an obnoxious stereotype formed by a vocal minority.

 

[Jocario Zero]

Shamelessly stealing this from the "Build your Avengers team!" game on twitter, but I'm generally unoriginal so I think this should work out:

Build your own Smash DLC!

The rules are simple. You get $15 to spend on your selection of DLC characters. Every character is priced from $1 to $5 based on no objective criteria beyond my own judgement of "yeah, this seems right here". There's no bonus for having excess money, so try to make every dollar count!

Spoiler: $5

• Dante
• Crash Bandicoot
• Sora
• Master Chief
• Unique Third Party character not listed in the other categories

Spoiler: $4

• 2B
• Phoenix Wright
• Chris/Jill/Leon
• Bandana Waddle Dee
• Waluigi
• Issac
• Kazuma Kiryu
• Lloyd Irving
• Geno
• Doom Marine
• Ryu Hayabusa
• Unique Nintendo character not listed in the other categories

Spoiler: $3

• Rex and Pyra
• Sol Badguy
• Travis Touchdown
• Heihachi
• Ray-Man
• Monster Hunter
• Amaterasu
• Lara Croft
• Steve
• Dixie Kong
• Neku

Spoiler: $2

• Paper Mario
• Gen 8 Pokemon of your choosing
• Sub-Zero/Scorpion
• Arle
• Shantae
• Porky
• Elma
• KOS-MOS
• Skull Kid
• Reimu
• Bomberman
• A Ken-style Echo Fighter of your choosing

Spoiler: $1

• Bubsy
• Gex
• Tingle
• Shiori Fujisaki
• Breath of the Wild Zelda
• Sandbag
• Daisy/Richter-style echo of your choosing

Sure, why not:

5$ - Master Chief
4$ - Fiora as the unique Nintendo character (sorry Officer Howard and Dr. Coyle, but you can't win this battle)
2$ - Elma
2$ - Shantae
2$ - Octoling (Ken-style Echo Fighter of Inkling)

 

[Playstation Guy 1000]

Shamelessly stealing this from the "Build your Avengers team!" game on twitter, but I'm generally unoriginal so I think this should work out:

Build your own Smash DLC!

The rules are simple. You get $15 to spend on your selection of DLC characters. Every character is priced from $1 to $5 based on no objective criteria beyond my own judgement of "yeah, this seems right here". There's no bonus for having excess money, so try to make every dollar count!

Spoiler: $5

• Dante
• Crash Bandicoot
• Sora
• Master Chief
• Unique Third Party character not listed in the other categories

Spoiler: $4

• 2B
• Phoenix Wright
• Chris/Jill/Leon
• Bandana Waddle Dee
• Waluigi
• Issac
• Kazuma Kiryu
• Lloyd Irving
• Geno
• Doom Marine
• Ryu Hayabusa
• Unique Nintendo character not listed in the other categories

Spoiler: $3

• Rex and Pyra
• Sol Badguy
• Travis Touchdown
• Heihachi
• Ray-Man
• Monster Hunter
• Amaterasu
• Lara Croft
• Steve
• Dixie Kong
• Neku

Spoiler: $2

• Paper Mario
• Gen 8 Pokemon of your choosing
• Sub-Zero/Scorpion
• Arle
• Shantae
• Porky
• Elma
• KOS-MOS
• Skull Kid
• Reimu
• Bomberman
• A Ken-style Echo Fighter of your choosing

Spoiler: $1

• Bubsy
• Gex
• Tingle
• Shiori Fujisaki
• Breath of the Wild Zelda
• Sandbag
• Daisy/Richter-style echo of your choosing

$5-Crash Bandicoot.
$4-Ryu Hayabusa.
$3-Ray-Man.
$3-Heihachi.

 

[Blade of Evil's Bane]

If we get a Mii Costume of the Knight, it's going to be along with Hornet as FP7... in June... just in time for Silksong... i wish...

But seriously, it would be really cool to see Hollow Knight immortalised in Smash in some way preferably with Hornet as a fighter.

Not sure about the song mentionned in the "leak" tho, Sealed Vessel. The song is epic don't get me wrong but most of it is also sad and pretty slow, maybe not the best fit for Smash, idk (unless they remix it and cut out the slower parts). This one on the other hand:

 

[Dragoncharystary]

Have the Pokemon SWSH spirits yet returned in a patch? I recall hearing somewhere that unlike every other spirit event, those spirits never returned in a patch. I haven't been following it too much but has that been rectified yet? If not, interesting I suppose. Unless there are other spirits that haven't been patched in up to this point.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

My question about a League character is how many people are actually gonna care? I mean, LoL is extremely popular, but most people who play it are PC master race type people playing on laptops who would never buy a Switch anyways.

Um, If they're at all competitive, they're going to be using a desktop computer for the better hardware.

But anyway, considering the butt ton of League of Legends fans, there's probably quite a few people who would care. Even the non-League of Legends fans would care (in a positive way) if the character looked cool to them.

 

[Souless_shadow]

a league of legends character would be cool for smash especially with a hero/bowser jr. type of character.

I don't think a Bowser Jr. situation would work for a LoL character. One of the main draws (at least in my opinion) is how diverse the champions are from each other. I really can't think of any characters that are similar enough to have them as alts for each other.

 

[RileyXY1]

Have the Pokemon SWSH spirits yet returned in a patch? I recall hearing somewhere that unlike every other spirit event, those spirits never returned in a patch. I haven't been following it too much but has that been rectified yet? If not, interesting I suppose. Unless there are other spirits that haven't been patched in up to this point.

They did. I have all of them.

 

[AntagonisticGalaxyCetacea]

I don't think a Bowser Jr. situation would work for a LoL character. One of the main draws (at least in my opinion) is how diverse the champions are from each other. I really can't think of any characters that are similar enough to have them as alts for each other.

I feel like every single time I see someone suggest a "Bowser Jr/Hero situation" clearly havent seen or played the games they talk about

 

[Aerospherology]

Have the Pokemon SWSH spirits yet returned in a patch? I recall hearing somewhere that unlike every other spirit event, those spirits never returned in a patch. I haven't been following it too much but has that been rectified yet? If not, interesting I suppose. Unless there are other spirits that haven't been patched in up to this point.

They did, a while ago. According to SmashWiki, it was February 25th. https://www.ssbwiki.com/List_of_spirits_(Pokémon_series)