Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[SMAASH! Puppy]

I'm scared.

Don't worry. This combo is actually quite difficult since your second jump has to be in the direction of the opponent's knockback or they fall out. It's pretty difficult even without DI. It also doesn't kill unless you do it perfect, or get them at decently high percents. About 80-ish

Pro-Tip: This combo stops working near kill percents if you play one of the small characters.

Three Houses: Lysithea (Lysithea casts Dark Spikes T, causing a bunch of... dark spikes to appear above the opponent in a semi-circle and fly at them, impale the other character. Somewhat weak, but does good damage to shields)

This is completely inaccurate to how this works in game. It's Lysithea. All of her spells are nuke buttons. None of this "Somewhat weak" crap.

 

[Ramen Tengoku]

As with stages, I'm a little baffled to why every AT isn't here.

Charizard, Little Mac, Dark Samus and Isabelle be like:

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Here's my idea for the DLC Assists:

• Persona: Queen (Makoto rides back and forth across the stage on Johanna, dealing damage to anyone she hits. Right before she leaves, she casts Freidyne and makes a moderately sized explosion).
• Dragon Quest: Jessica Albert (Jessica moves freely around the stage like Alucard or Zero, attacking opponents by hitting them with a series of whip lashes, shooting a sexy beam, or raining ice down with Kacrackle).
• Banjo-Kazooie: Mumbo (Mumbo will 'transform' whoever summoned him by making them large, metal, or giving them a tail. However, Mumbo's spell occasionally backfire and shrink the person who summoned him).
• Fatal Fury: Krauser (Krauser moves around, throwing three Blitz Balls, followed by a Kaiser Wave. However, if someone is above him when he's about to perform his Kaiser Wave, he instead does a Gigaton Cyclone).
• Three Houses: Lysithea (Lysithea casts Dark Spikes T, causing a bunch of... dark spikes to appear above the opponent in a semi-circle and fly at them, impale the other character. Somewhat weak, but does good damage to shields)
• ARMS: Biff (Similar to Mr. Resetti, Biff appears as a textbox at the bottom of the screen, commentating while blocking the UI and any action that happens behind him).

Mine:
DQ: that flamboyant dude from XI. i dunno his name or what he'd do but i can imagine him as an assist
Persona: Futaba, with her AOA from P5R
B-K: Gruntilda. Make her also a boss so she'd be a dual Boss-AT deal like Rathalos
Fatal Fury: Kyo, no question
Three Houses: the Gatekeeper acting like Resetti.
ARMS: ... we already have Spring Man

bonus:
Final Fantasy VII, since it got shafted for ATs in the base game: Aerith. Uses healing wind on EVERYONE. Summoner and opponents.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Charizard, Little Mac, Dark Samus and Isabelle be like:
View attachment 269269

Well, besides those.

I don't remember if there's any missing 3rd party AT's either. I think it's just some cut 1st/2nd party ones otherwise?

 

[Ramen Tengoku]

I don't remember if there's any missing 3rd party AT's either. I think it's just some cut 1st/2nd party ones otherwise?

Elec Man's been MIA after Smash 4

 

[Ben Holt]

I thought about Waluigi, but I think he lacks original spirits that would make his pass notable. It doesn't help that he doesn't have his own game like Yoshi, DK, or even Wario, so he can't bring anything that's distinctly his own. I could be wrong and Sakurai could go nuts with the Mario spinoffs, but those already have a sizable amount of content too.

I actually think we're getting more characters under the "Individual DLC" label like Piranha Plant.
It would include characters from series that don't need any extra content. Notice how the deadline for Fighter's Pass 2 is considerably farther out than Pass 1's was. From launch date to February 2020 was 13 months; and from Byleth's release to December 2021 is 23 months, almost two years! And if Fighter 6 is Spring Man, then that makes it even easier, because Spring Man is already halfway finished with his Assist Trophy.
This liberal deadline got me thinking. I was hoping to release this list later, but I'll go ahead and show it now:

This is a list of Individual DLC that Evil Trapezium and I came up with. These are popular Smash requests that do not really require a stage, Spirit Board, or music (though Geno would probably come with Forest Maze music like how Cuphead and Sans came with single music tracks).
And these are just my picks. There are PLENTY of characters on the table that don't need to come in a Challenger Pack! Impa, Bandana Waddle Dee, Tetra, any Pokémon, Alucard, Krystal, Toad, Tom Nook, Ashley, Chun-Li, etc, etc, etc.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Nah, Elec Man's currently MIA post-Smash 4

Well, at least we can confirm that just cause they were in the previous game doesn't mean all companies will play ball(in fact, we might not see all 3rd party costumes back with this in mind) for the next game. Licensing sucks.

Who knows on some of the other 1st party ones. I doubt redundancy mattered, really. Priority by Sakurai and his team or something, I guess?

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Well, at least we can confirm that just cause they were in the previous game doesn't mean all companies will play ball(in fact, we might not see all 3rd party costumes back with this in mind) for the next game. Licensing sucks.

Who knows on some of the other 1st party ones. I doubt redundancy mattered, really. Priority by Sakurai and his team or something, I guess?

They allowed Dr. Wily though...

 

[Ramen Tengoku]

Well, at least we can confirm that just cause they were in the previous game doesn't mean all companies will play ball(in fact, we might not see all 3rd party costumes back with this in mind) for the next game. Licensing sucks.

I doubt it was licensing in Elec Man's case, like Elec Man's still in the game as a spirit and stuff. Rather I assume it was priority, especially when we got two other Mega Man assists with Wily and Zero

 

[DanganZilla5]

Any news on the spirit event?

 

[Enigma735]

I actually think we're getting more characters under the "Individual DLC" label like Piranha Plant.
It would include characters from series that don't need any extra content. Notice how the deadline for Fighter's Pass 2 is considerably farther out than Pass 1's was. From launch date to February 2020 was 13 months; and from Byleth's release to December 2021 is 23 months, almost two years! And if Fighter 6 is Spring Man, then that makes it even easier, because Spring Man is already halfway finished with his Assist Trophy.
This liberal deadline got me thinking. I was hoping to release this list later, but I'll go ahead and show it now:
View attachment 269268
This is a list of Individual DLC that Evil Trapezium and I came up with. These are popular Smash requests that do not really require a stage, Spirit Board, or music (though Geno would probably come with Forest Maze music like how Cuphead and Sans came with single music tracks).
And these are just my picks. There are PLENTY of characters on the table that don't need to come in a Challenger Pack! Impa, Bandana Waddle Dee, Tetra, any Pokémon, Alucard, Krystal, Toad, Tom Nook, Ashley, Chun-Li, etc, etc, etc.

I think all of those could work as individual DLC except for Geno. Super Mario RPG has zero representation in Smash besides two lousy Spirits. Mario RPG features a diverse cast of unique characters and I think they could easily make a DLC Spirit Board for SMRPG. Not to mention the fact that we can get more Yoko Shinomura songs, and maybe even a few remixes. Honestly I can see Geno being a Fighters Pass character.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Any news on the spirit event?

It's a tourney instead. Makes me wonder if they've reached the end of their Spirit event content.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I doubt it was licensing in Elec Man's case, like Elec Man's still in the game as a spirit and stuff. Rather I assume it was priority

That'd still be a licensing thing overall. Capcom Japan allows Sakurai to do only certain things with their characters. A new contract would be done anyway due to new content.

Though my original point is incorrect, kind of. It's a new licensing deal per game. Changing the type of content Elec Man is would require new negotiations. Now it can absolutely be priority on Sakurai's part too. But Capcom agreed to have differences of Elec Man's usage regardless. That, and companies are often cooperative with Sakurai so it's not like this was hard to accomplish in a lot of cases. In fact, look at how hefty Capcom Japan's content is. Capcom USA too. They both clearly worked with him well.

Now compare it to SE, which game less FF content. Besides that, Sakurai can't always plan entirely for future games with licensing. If there's no clear future, it's hard for a company to agree to "continued use of the IP". It doesn't mean he has to scrap any content outright so much as can't use it in the final game. Let's say the Geno costume is still there, and was intended to come back. It's possible SE said no to him being a costume again and that's why we haven't seen him yet(fastest example I could give. I think Geno'll be playable or a costume, mind you).

They allowed Dr. Wily though...

Because of a new licensing agreement. That's all it simply is.

 

[Ben Holt]

I think all of those could work as individual DLC except for Geno. Super Mario RPG has zero representation in Smash besides two lousy Spirits. Mario RPG features a diverse cast of unique characters and I think they could easily make a DLC Spirit Board for SMRPG. Not to mention the fact that we can get more Yoko Shinomura songs, and maybe even a few remixes. Honestly I can see Geno being a Fighters Pass character.

I could too. But my Fighter's Pass was full, and Geno is still technically in the Mario series. Dixie Kong also COULD have a Tropical Freeze stage and Mii Costumes for Kiddy Kong, Kritter, Funky Kong, and Kranky Kong, but those aren't necessary when most people just want Dixie.
Inversely, Spring Man (or any other ARMS character) MUST have a new stage and music, as ARMS doesn't have any of that yet, and ever since Brawl, every playable series has had at least one stage and music. So that was my criteria for whether I would classify a character as a Challenger Pack or an Individual DLC.
Geno could be either, but Waluigi is solidly in the Individual section.
inb4 Waluigi Pinball is a stage.

 

[DanganZilla5]

It's a tourney instead. Makes me wonder if they've reached the end of their Spirit event content.

I think it's a bit too early to say that. We got a spirit event for Animal Crossing new Horizons not too long ago.

 

[Deleted member]

I actually think we're getting more characters under the "Individual DLC" label like Piranha Plant.
It would include characters from series that don't need any extra content. Notice how the deadline for Fighter's Pass 2 is considerably farther out than Pass 1's was. From launch date to February 2020 was 13 months; and from Byleth's release to December 2021 is 23 months, almost two years! And if Fighter 6 is Spring Man, then that makes it even easier, because Spring Man is already halfway finished with his Assist Trophy.
This liberal deadline got me thinking. I was hoping to release this list later, but I'll go ahead and show it now:
View attachment 269268
This is a list of Individual DLC that Evil Trapezium and I came up with. These are popular Smash requests that do not really require a stage, Spirit Board, or music (though Geno would probably come with Forest Maze music like how Cuphead and Sans came with single music tracks).
And these are just my picks. There are PLENTY of characters on the table that don't need to come in a Challenger Pack! Impa, Bandana Waddle Dee, Tetra, any Pokémon, Alucard, Krystal, Toad, Tom Nook, Ashley, Chun-Li, etc, etc, etc.

Can't say I see eye-to-eye. I think just from Sakurai's description of Wave 2, it sounds like the six fighters and their passes were the ones that pushed the endgoal back for him. You gotta remember there was a time when we didn't know there would be six fighters and he could have just done 2 or maybe 3 extra fighters. Even Sakurai thought it might be lame to just do 1 or 2. Him emphasizing that there are six fighters should probably tell us that we're getting 6 and that's it.

I do find the two year time gap to be confusing given last year's pace, but we could probably write that under lessening the work load. I have two theories that have no real evidence but makes sense if true:
1) Sakurai's health is kinda pitiful and it's not a surprise anymore to see him be hospitalized, as terrible as that is to say. Dude kind of needs to take it light.
2) Corona's messing with everything. Hell I wouldn't be surprised if Sakurai and Nintendo foresaw Corona being an issue (since Japan's relatively close to China), and then finalized the 2021 release schedule according to it.

Don't get me wrong. I'm all for opening the flood gates, but that's only for when they're open.

 

[chocolatejr9]

I think it's a bit too early to say that. We got a spirit event for Animal Crossing new Horizons not too long ago.

Maybe something happened behind the scenes with the schedule? We had two Spirit Events back to back, and now we have two tourneys back to back.

 

[Enigma735]

In terms of what DLC assists I would like, the only one I can give an opinion on is Banjo-Kazooie since that is the only DLC franchise where I have played the games. I would really love a Mumbo Jumbo assist trophy where he can transform the opponents in to an termite, which won't let the players attack, just move, a crocodile which lets you attack and move, but you only get one attack which is a chomp, and its pretty weak, a pumpkin which acts similar to the termite, HOWEVER one strong attack can be an instant KO, and at rare times, a washing machine, which grants the opponent with super armor, but they can't move or attack, leaving them invulnerable. Honestly, the Banjo-Kazooie franchise has so much characters that would work perfect as assist trophies, but I really love my Mumbo idea.

 

[Wunderwaft]

Out of all the ATs that were cut, the Advance Wars AT was the one that made me disappointed the most. The series is dead and Intelligent Systems has no interest in reviving it, so to see it phasing out of Smash as well made me sad. I don't expect spirits to return in the next game, so there's a possibility that this game might be the last one to reference Advance Wars.

 

[Deleted member]

Out of all the ATs that were cut, the Advance Wars AT was the one that made me disappointed the most. The series is dead and Intelligent Systems has no interest in reviving it, so to see it phasing out of Smash as well made me sad. I don't expect spirits to return in the next game, so there's a possibility that this game might be the last one to reference Advance Wars.

Man. You know Smash is weird now when Banjo-Kazooie has more content than Advance Wars.

 

[Hadokeyblade]

Here's my idea for the DLC Assists:

• Persona: Queen (Makoto rides back and forth across the stage on Johanna, dealing damage to anyone she hits. Right before she leaves, she casts Freidyne and makes a moderately sized explosion).
• Dragon Quest: Jessica Albert (Jessica moves freely around the stage like Alucard or Zero, attacking opponents by hitting them with a series of whip lashes, shooting a sexy beam, or raining ice down with Kacrackle).
• Banjo-Kazooie: Mumbo (Mumbo will 'transform' whoever summoned him by making them large, metal, or giving them a tail. However, Mumbo's spell occasionally backfire and shrink the person who summoned him).
• Fatal Fury: Krauser (Krauser moves around, throwing three Blitz Balls, followed by a Kaiser Wave. However, if someone is above him when he's about to perform his Kaiser Wave, he instead does a Gigaton Cyclone).
• Three Houses: Lysithea (Lysithea casts Dark Spikes T, causing a bunch of... dark spikes to appear above the opponent in a semi-circle and fly at them, impale the other character. Somewhat weak, but does good damage to shields)
• ARMS: Biff (Similar to Mr. Resetti, Biff appears as a textbox at the bottom of the screen, commentating while blocking the UI and any action that happens behind him).

Not gonna lie that Makoto assist sounds kinda boring. Personally I think Futaba fits the role better, maybe using her hacking skills that she uses in P5.

Jessica makes sense as an assist, she's a pretty popular character, but If it were up to me I would make her attack Magic burst, her special move from Heroes.

Everything else is spot on.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Because of a new licensing agreement. That's all it simply is.

My point was that I don't think licensing was an issue due to Capcom's willingness to play nice.

I've also been given the impression that Capcom's IP owners are pretty chill when it comes to crossovers (at least for in-house projects). The only refusal I've seen was for Monster Hunter content in Marvel Vs. Capcom 3, which was then allowed in the next game.

 

[King Sonnn DeDeDoo]

Out of all the ATs that were cut, the Advance Wars AT was the one that made me disappointed the most. The series is dead and Intelligent Systems has no interest in reviving it, so to see it phasing out of Smash as well made me sad. I don't expect spirits to return in the next game, so there's a possibility that this game might be the last one to reference Advance Wars.

Maybe with the release of Wargroove, Intelligence Systems will realize that there's a niche market of Advance Wars? Probably unlikely, unless maybe the figure out a way to do support conversations between COs...

 

[TheCJBrine]

Wood Man would’ve been a nice AT.

>:]

 

[Sunredo]

Out of all the ATs that were cut, the Advance Wars AT was the one that made me disappointed the most. The series is dead and Intelligent Systems has no interest in reviving it, so to see it phasing out of Smash as well made me sad. I don't expect spirits to return in the next game, so there's a possibility that this game might be the last one to reference Advance Wars.

Yamagami, Higuchi, and some other staff members at IntSys seem actually seem to be really interested in a new AW actually judging from this article.

To quote the article: "The Advance Wars series is one that I personally have a lot of interest in," said Masahiro Higuchi, a producer on Fire Emblem Echoes: Shadows of Valentia and a contributor to 2001's Advance Wars. "I hear some of the staff here saying that they want to make one too, so if we have a chance it's something I'd like to do!"

They also want to implement relationships so take that as you will.

Edit:

Maybe with the release of Wargroove, Intelligence Systems will realize that there's a niche market of Advance Wars? Probably unlikely, unless maybe the figure out a way to do support conversations between COs...

I think if they keep the tag powers mechanic they could easily build up support by just taking a specific pair of characters into battle.

 

[Ben Holt]

2) Corona's messing with everything. Hell I wouldn't be surprised if Sakurai and Nintendo foresaw Corona being an issue (since Japan's relatively close to China), and then finalized the 2021 release schedule according to it.

Volume 2 was planned well before the Coronavirus, and Nintendo publicly stated to expect delays because of it.
But unless Sakurai is Nostradamus, I don't think he planned 10 extra months for a pandemic. 23 months was the INITIAL deadline, not the delayed deadline.
Perhaps I'm overly optimistic, but I would not be at all surprised by at least one more Individual DLC. Though 5 (6 if you include ) is probably the absolute most we're getting. I'm not a developer, so I have no idea how long one character takes compared to a character, stage, and several music tracks, but my gut says about half as long as a full pack.

 

[Dark Bagel]

Man. You know Smash is weird now when Banjo-Kazooie has more content than Advance Wars.

Less than Banjo, huh? I guess you could say that Advance Wars was stripped bear of its content, then?

 

[CapitaineCrash]

Man. You know Smash is weird now when Banjo-Kazooie has more content than Advance Wars.

Even Electroplankton have more content than Advance wars in Smash.

 

[Ben Holt]

Even Electroplankton have more content than Advance wars in Smash.

Even Pictochat!

 

[Deleted member]

Volume 2 was planned well before the Coronavirus, and Nintendo publicly stated to expect delays because of it.
But unless Sakurai is Nostradamus, I don't think he planned 10 extra months for a pandemic. 23 months was the INITIAL deadline, not the delayed deadline.
Perhaps I'm overly optimistic, but I would not be at all surprised by at least one more Individual DLC. Though 5 (6 if you include ) is probably the absolute most we're getting. I'm not a developer, so I have no idea how long one character takes compared to a character, stage, and several music tracks, but my gut says about half as long as a full pack.

Idk. Given how FP 6 is taking until June after starting work in January, I'm just being real. Joker had a four month period of work before he was released, but that's because Sakurai was also working on PPlant and other modes like Homerun and Stage Builder. If it's seriously taking this long for an ARMs Fighters Pass to get made and nothing else, I think we just gotta accept we're playing a longer waiting game.

But that's for June. Right now, nothing confirms your theory nor my skepticism, so we'll see if there's something else besides the FP.

 

[Wunderwaft]

Yamagami, Higuchi, and some other staff members at IntSys seem really interested in a new AW actually judging from this article.

To quote the article: "The Advance Wars series is one that I personally have a lot of interest in," said Masahiro Higuchi, a producer on Fire Emblem Echoes: Shadows of Valentia and a contributor to 2001's Advance Wars. "I hear some of the staff here saying that they want to make one too, so if we have a chance it's something I'd like to do!"

They also want to implement relationships so take that as you will.

Yeah I remember reading that article three years ago. Unless IntSys discovers a way to date a tank we're out of luck with an AW revival. Joking aside AW's problem is the lack of commitment from it's developers and not a financial problem, IntSys is doing better than ever and if they really want to they can revive AW. It's a bit similair to Valve and Half-Life when there wasn't anything prohibiting another game from being made. Valve wanted to make another Half-Life game but development was dropped numerous times in favor of other projects. Valve was swimming in money with Steam so most of their focus was set on improving the platform. It took time for Valve to come back to Half-Life and release a new title eventually.

The comparison isn't entirely accurate mind you since Valve and IntSys are in different positions, but I wanted to show that even interest from a developer isn't enough if the company has other more profitable priorities on it's list. An AW revival may happen someday, but it will happen when IntSys is on a good standing and can afford to make it at their own leisure. Who knows? Three Houses just came out and it was super successful so unless there's another FE game being planned IntSys might take another look at AW as their next project.

 

[Mushroomguy12]

Only being a spirit is one thing, Advance wars used to be represented with an assist trophy but then got demoted to only have spirits. I always felt that was weird but I didn't pay it any mind since I haven't ever played an AW game. Fast forward to a couple months ago when I finally played one and now I feel like the series was done dirty. The series responsible for FE ever coming west getting shafted like that isn't right imo.

Out of all the ATs that were cut, the Advance Wars AT was the one that made me disappointed the most. The series is dead and Intelligent Systems has no interest in reviving it, so to see it phasing out of Smash as well made me sad. I don't expect spirits to return in the next game, so there's a possibility that this game might be the last one to reference Advance Wars.

Man. You know Smash is weird now when Banjo-Kazooie has more content than Advance Wars.

Even Electroplankton have more content than Advance wars in Smash.

This post pretty much summarizes it perfectly. I always like to pull it out again.

Can anyone think of a more surprising omission from Smash than the (Advance) Wars series?

"
This is about more than a playable fighter. No stage? Over 800 tracks, and not a single piece of music? Sure, there are a couple of Spirits. But even the most obscure, random, and 3rd party games got Spirits. Characters that were not even on Nintendo systems got those I think. Advance Wars had a SINGLE assist trophy, and it was one of the few that were REMOVED. Removed from the most comprehensive collection of Smash history? Why?

But this is Advance Wars. A Nintendo made series that goes all the way back to the Famicom. Long running, and with spinoffs. TWELVE games! Twelve games across Famicom, Super Famicom, Game Boy, GBA, NDS, Gamcube, and Wii. I get that it might not be super popular in Japan, or had any recent entries. But there is some OBSCURE stuff with songs in this game. Electroplankton has a stage! There is music from Culdcept and Jam With the Band. A song from Soma Bringer? A Captain Rainbow song? I could keep going.

Advance Wars is filled with colorful characters and wonderful music. It was VERY well received on the GBA and DS. Most would call them must own games of those very successful Nintendo systems.

And the series is made by Intelligent System. It's often considered the sister series to Fire Emblem. Yes, Fire Emblem is a lot more popular. Especially these days. But Fire Emblem has SEVEN (This post was before Byleth was announced) EIGHT fighters, three assist trophies, stages, music tracks... It's got it all. In all this time, was no one at Intelligent Systems trying to pitch some Advance Wars stuff? There are Codename STEAM songs in this game FFS.

I tried to reason that maybe it had to do with content. Like, maybe war was too out of place in Smash? But if Snake is shooting rockets and throwing grenades, I'm not sure why we can't have Andy doing the same.

It's one thing to feel left out of the party. And i know there are fans out there who feel snubbed. But this isn't a 3rd party series we are discussing. It's actually confusing. Does Sakurai secretly hate the series? I'm actually surprised they didn't have a fighter in the series sooner than now.

Some could argue that maybe Andy or someone else could come as DLC. But with the recent announcement of Joker and the wording that was used after, I'm not so sure. It sounds like DLC is going to be a popularity contest. And most likely, more 3rd party. (This post was before Byleth and ARMS were announced).

Can anyone think of an exclusion that makes even LESS sense?
"

 

[DarthEnderX]

Can anyone think of an exclusion that makes even LESS sense?

Shadow not being an Echo.

 

[ZelDan]

Shadow not being an Echo.

If we're counting characters and nor entire franchises, then Dixie Kong still not being playable is a head-scratcher.

 

[Mushroomguy12]

Shadow not being an Echo.

I believe he/she was talking about entire series (and probably 1st Parties), not individual characters.

 

[ARandomFruit]

I did that smash ultimate list thing that one person did because I was bored.

Spoiler: List thingy

I probably forgot someone here or there though I don't have the best memory.

 

[Sunredo]

This post pretty much summarizes it perfectly. I always like to pull it out again.

Can anyone think of a more surprising omission from Smash than the (Advance) Wars series?

View attachment 269273

"
This is about more than a playable fighter. No stage? Over 800 tracks, and not a single piece of music? Sure, there are a couple of Spirits. But even the most obscure, random, and 3rd party games got Spirits. Characters that were not even on Nintendo systems got those I think. Advance Wars had a SINGLE assist trophy, and it was one of the few that were REMOVED. Removed from the most comprehensive collection of Smash history? Why?

But this is Advance Wars. A Nintendo made series that goes all the way back to the Famicom. Long running, and with spinoffs. TWELVE games! Twelve games across Famicom, Super Famicom, Game Boy, GBA, NDS, Gamcube, and Wii. I get that it might not be super popular in Japan, or had any recent entries. But there is some OBSCURE stuff with songs in this game. Electroplankton has a stage! There is music from Culdcept and Jam With the Band. A song from Soma Bringer? A Captain Rainbow song? I could keep going.

Advance Wars is filled with colorful characters and wonderful music. It was VERY well received on the GBA and DS. Most would call them must own games of those very successful Nintendo systems.

And the series is made by Intelligent System. It's often considered the sister series to Fire Emblem. Yes, Fire Emblem is a lot more popular. Especially these days. But Fire Emblem has SEVEN (This post was before Byleth was announced) EIGHT fighters, three assist trophies, stages, music tracks... It's got it all. In all this time, was no one at Intelligent Systems trying to pitch some Advance Wars stuff? There are Codename STEAM songs in this game FFS.

I tried to reason that maybe it had to do with content. Like, maybe war was too out of place in Smash? But if Snake is shooting rockets and throwing grenades, I'm not sure why we can't have Andy doing the same.

It's one thing to feel left out of the party. And i know there are fans out there who feel snubbed. But this isn't a 3rd party series we are discussing. It's actually confusing. Does Sakurai secretly hate the series? I'm actually surprised they didn't have a fighter in the series sooner than now.

Some could argue that maybe Andy or someone else could come as DLC. But with the recent announcement of Joker and the wording that was used after, I'm not so sure. It sounds like DLC is going to be a popularity contest. And most likely, more 3rd party. (This post was before Byleth and ARMS were announced).

Can anyone think of an exclusion that makes even LESS sense?
"

My personal smash pipedream right now is a reveal where the intro is mimicking the K Rool and Banjo trailers but instead of DK characters it's the FE characters with all their armies to confront something. Everyone would think it's going to be a FE villain but after a sike-out it's revealed to be Sturm with a title card saying "Advances into battle" or something punny like that. It'd be really cool to have the villain rep a series for once, though I know a lot of AW fans want Andy too. I'd be ecstatic if any of the two got in considering how slim their chances are and how out of the blue it would be.

Edit: Formatting

 

[Wunderwaft]

My personal smash pipedream right now is a reveal where the intro is mimicking the K Rool and Banjo trailers but instead of DK characters it's the FE characters with all their armies to confront something. Everyone would think it's going to be a FE villain but after a sike-out it's revealed to be Sturm with a title card saying "Advances into battle" or something punny like that. It'd be really cool to have the villain rep a series for once, though I know a lot of AW fans want Andy too. I'd be ecstatic if any of the two got in considering how slim their chances are and how out of the blue it would be.

Can't argue with Sturm. The character with the coolest design and battle theme gets a grade A ranking from me.

 

[Ben Holt]

Shadow not being an Echo.

And Proto Man.
And Ms. Pac-Man.
Like, those are as obvious as Ken.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

My point was that I don't think licensing was an issue due to Capcom's willingness to play nice.

I've also been given the impression that Capcom's IP owners are pretty chill when it comes to crossovers (at least for in-house projects). The only refusal I've seen was for Monster Hunter content in Marvel Vs. Capcom 3, which was then allowed in the next game.

You're missing what I'm saying.

Playing nice didn't mean anything. It was a new licensing agreement, so Elec Man's fate entirely depended upon what agreement they made. We don't know if Capcom or Sakurai wanted it cut, but the reason for the cut still depended upon the final licensing details.

Licensing is simply part of why it happened, but it's not some kind of knock against licensing either. It's understandable. New game, new agreements. It's more likely Sakurai didn't re-license it, and Capcom was okay with it. If he were to be removed in a port, they'd have to re-negotiate again, for instance. That's basically how 3rd party stuff works. And ports may need to renew a license depending upon the original agreement for usage of parts of an IP as well. It's kind of a complicated mess and depends upon various details. Since with a license, it's full of very specific details on how an IP as well as parts of the IP are allowed to be used. Considering however there's no Smash ports, with VC being... it, the "port" thing would be highly unlikely to be part of a previous license agreement. If they wanted to port Brawl, for example, to the Switch via download, they need to renew all the 3rd party licensing.

Just simple business and expected at this point.