Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[Dalek_Kolt]

What do you mean? I thought that Ridley looked pretty cooo-



oooh-oooh-ooookay that's not okay.

I really want to know the story behind Ridley's treatment in Smash 4; Not only was his animation and rigging so jank despite literal months of teasing and hyping him up, but his stock icon wasn't even the same design.

 

[Dragoncharystary]

On the topic of recent rumors, has Vergeben said anything notable in a while? Maybe it's just me but it seems like he's been quiet for some time.

Idk. Given how FP 6 is taking until June after starting work in January, I'm just being real. Joker had a four month period of work before he was released, but that's because Sakurai was also working on PPlant and other modes like Homerun and Stage Builder. If it's seriously taking this long for an ARMs Fighters Pass to get made and nothing else, I think we just gotta accept we're playing a longer waiting game.

But that's for June. Right now, nothing confirms your theory nor my skepticism, so we'll see if there's something else besides the FP.

Unless Sakurai used wizard powers to foresee the coronavirus pandemic back in November when the Byleth video was recorded, the dates we received were the original planned dates.

Now of course it's a given that delays from those original planned dates are a possibility with the current state of things.

 

[SKX31]

That and Rare was a Western company much like Microsoft. Sega is a Japanese company and I guess their laws stipulate that a Western company can’t buy them out. It’s also why Nintendo can never be acquired by Disney. I found this out not too long ago.

Seeing as SNK was bought out by a trio of Chinese (one of which being Hong Kong based) companies back in 2015, I'm gonna say: doubting that's the reason why. The rumor's likely bunk because there's been no indication Sega wants to become a subsidiary.

(I really feel like a broken record when it comes to this, but the buyout was important since it signalled a major shift within SNK. Also, Shunrong Sanqi = 37 Games)

 

[StarBot]

We all know what happened to Rare Ware's IPs when they were bought by Microsoft.

While the whole Microsoft is buying SEGA thing was obviously false based on people I talked to on Twitter and just basic common knowledge (Seriously this Quarantine is causing people making the most baseless ****)

Can the whole "Rare IPs died when they where bought by Microsoft!" meme die off?

Rarerare was dying (and mismanaged) even before they where boughtout

It should be evidence when the guys left and got to make a original project without Microsoft and it still flop eitherway

 

[Cosmic77]

On the topic of recent rumors, has Vergeben said anything notable in a while? Maybe it's just me but it seems like he's been quiet for some time.

That's because DLC is a whole different ballgame for Verge. The only character he was able to predict months ahead of time was the character who was orginally going to be in the base game (Hero).

I'd be surprised if we hear from him again. He hasn't provided us with anything substantial in quite some time.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

On the topic of recent rumors, has Vergeben said anything notable in a while? Maybe it's just me but it seems like he's been quiet for some time.

Nintendo a while back had taken leaks more seriously. Nintendo ninjas could have gotten him.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

That's because DLC is a whole different ballgame for Verge. The only character he was able to predict months ahead of time was the character who was orginally going to be in the base game (Hero).

I'd be surprised if we hear from him again. He hasn't provided us with anything substantial in quite some time.

Also, Banjo was leaked by Shinobi who only happened to have close ties to Microsoft, and Terry was Nintendo’s fault for leaving the SNK copyright on FP4’s page

 

[Cosmic77]

Also, Banjo was leaked by Shinobi who only happened to have close ties to Microsoft, and Terry was Nintendo’s fault for leaving the SNK copyright on FP4’s page

I find it ironic that they failed to keep most of the third-parties a secret, but both Byleth and ARMS came as a total surprise.

 

[Dragoncharystary]

Also, Banjo was leaked by Shinobi who only happened to have close ties to Microsoft, and Terry was Nintendo’s fault for leaving the SNK copyright on FP4’s page

This is also why Byleth didn't get out. Nintendo was able to keep a pretty tight lid on things since it was their character.

 

[CapitaineCrash]

At this point I think we won't get that many leak (if any at all), because as the dlc continue the dev team is probably way smaller than the base game team (and possibly fp2 team is smaller than fp1 team) so it will be harder to have information.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

I find it ironic that they failed to keep most of the third-parties a secret, but both Byleth and ARMS came as a total surprise.

Joker was a total surprise too, even though he was Atlus, but they acted fast in revealing him

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

That's because DLC is a whole different ballgame for Verge. The only character he was able to predict months ahead of time was the character who was orginally going to be in the base game (Hero).

I'd be surprised if we hear from him again. He hasn't provided us with anything substantial in quite some time.

He knew of the Mii costumes of one the full packs before they actually happened. But that's kind of it.

He also knew of the exact SNK character and let us know. It's not the hardest guess, mind you, but it was still a concrete statement. Sabi beat around the bush despite apparently knowing about it earlier(which means nothing if you aren't going to give actual information). Either way, Hero(note he didn't really say it was clearly Hero till wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy later, and he said Erdrick specifically. There's no indication he knew of the other alts whatsoever).

It's a bit more detailed than your letting on. So he knew one small thing about DLC, but it's likely he's not speaking up cause of Nintendo going harder on leaks than ever before. So it doesn't matter if he gets new information or not. It's up to him to release it once he's given permission, but he's likely saying nothing to protect other jobs since he knows they're in jeopardy if he makes a peep.

--------------------

To clarify on why all stages are not back, some have features that weren't designed to work with the new game. Pac-Maze's 3DS features fail unless both use the Switch similar to a Gamepad. Jungle Hijinx doesn't work with stage morph. However, a detail that is often forgotten is they were all made from scratch, not ported over. There's no way they had time to bring 'em all back. Obviously semi-different stages like Sector Z feel redundant too(which is hilarious cause multiple redundant stages are back anyway. Sector Z should've been back ages ago, really). Priority in some cases is just going to be a thing. For arbitrary reasons sometimes.

 

[StarBot]

On the topic of recent rumors, has Vergeben said anything notable in a while? Maybe it's just me but it seems like he's been quiet for some time.

Verge has been playing and living well off, he's been mostly been talking about Dragon Quest and other RPGs on GameFAQs

The last thing he posted on the Smash forums on there, was in a thread about some duffous speculating why Twintelle "was very likely unconfirmed" He came in only to answer someone's question on how to unlock Edrick's Shield in XI

Nintendo a while back had taken leaks more seriously. Nintendo ninjas could have gotten him.

That's because DLC is a whole different ballgame for Verge. The only character he was able to predict months ahead of time was the character who was originally going to be in the base game (Hero).

I'd be surprised if we hear from him again. He hasn't provided us with anything substantial in quite some time.

Actually apparently (and I'm putting apparently in big quotation marks) he knew about Byleth aswell, but didn't want to say anything because he didn't the forum screaming him out for spoiling the surprise like last few times

 

[Phoenixio]

Why would the dev team for FP2 be smaller than for FP1? I could get the argument that the team doesn't need to be as big as for the base game, but even that is not always true for a lot of companies that keep all their people to develop all the DLCs. But between fighter passes? It's not like there's suddenly less modeling/animation/coding that has to happen...

 

[CapitaineCrash]

Why would the dev team for FP2 be smaller than for FP1? I could get the argument that the team doesn't need to be as big as for the base game, but even that is not always true for a lot of companies that keep all their people to develop all the DLCs. But between fighter passes? It's not like there's suddenly less modeling/animation/coding that has to happen...

They stop doing game modes, so there's that less to do. There's probably going to be less balance patch in the future too (I might be wrong tho, I'm just speculating).

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Why would the dev team for FP2 be smaller than for FP1? I could get the argument that the team doesn't need to be as big as for the base game, but even that is not always true for a lot of companies that keep all their people to develop all the DLCs. But between fighter passes? It's not like there's suddenly less modeling/animation/coding that has to happen...

What about the trailers? I would hope they keep up with full CGI trailers, or stylistic animations like with Joker and Terry. I don’t wanna go back to Smash 4’s minimalist DLC trailers, not after the epicness that was the Robin/Lucina, Shulk, and Hero trailers (ok Cloud’s was pretty cool on account of including the OG FFVII star intro alone, but still)

 

[Mushroomguy12]

Sakurai's Pic of the Day. Always cool to see him acknowledge other game's releases!

pic.twitter.com/ccfjjhl0tK

— 桜井 政博 / Masahiro Sakurai (@Sora_Sakurai) April 15, 2020

 

[Phoenixio]

What about the trailers? I would hope they keep up with full CGI trailers, or stylistic animations like with Joker and Terry. I don’t wanna go back to Smash 4’s minimalist DLC trailers, not after the epicness that was the Robin/Lucina, Shulk, and Hero trailers (ok Cloud’s was pretty cool on account of including the OG FFVII star intro alone, but still)

Oh for sure, personally I think they'll be keeping the same staff for everything, from development, to marketing, and with all the lesser known jobs in the middle. It's one of their bigger games ever, and part of that is making sure that the quality is consistent throughout the lifetime.

I can't quite speak for Smash 4's content, as I was under the impression it struggled due to the WiiU's lack of popularity, but Ultimate has beaten absolutely ever expectation, so cutting the team back to indie levels would make little to no sense. And if people support Fighter Pass 2, I'm certain there'll be more content afterwards, even if not to a fighter pass' extent.

 

[Evil Trapezium]

I really want to know the story behind Ridley's treatment in Smash 4; Not only was his animation and rigging so jank despite literal months of teasing and hyping him up, but his stock icon wasn't even the same design.
View attachment 269305View attachment 269306

It probably went down like this but less dumb.

"Sakurai-San! We want you to use the Other M Ridley to promote Metroid Other M because it's new"
"Oh come on, we just made a new model and icons for the old Ridley! We don't have time to make a new one"
"Nah son! You gotta use that one or no computer games for a whole week. Just touch up the Ridley model from other M a little bit and it should be fine"

 

[wynn728]

I actually think we're getting more characters under the "Individual DLC" label like Piranha Plant.
It would include characters from series that don't need any extra content. Notice how the deadline for Fighter's Pass 2 is considerably farther out than Pass 1's was. From launch date to February 2020 was 13 months; and from Byleth's release to December 2021 is 23 months, almost two years! And if Fighter 6 is Spring Man, then that makes it even easier, because Spring Man is already halfway finished with his Assist Trophy.
This liberal deadline got me thinking. I was hoping to release this list later, but I'll go ahead and show it now:
View attachment 269268
This is a list of Individual DLC that Evil Trapezium and I came up with. These are popular Smash requests that do not really require a stage, Spirit Board, or music (though Geno would probably come with Forest Maze music like how Cuphead and Sans came with single music tracks).
And these are just my picks. There are PLENTY of characters on the table that don't need to come in a Challenger Pack! Impa, Bandana Waddle Dee, Tetra, any Pokémon, Alucard, Krystal, Toad, Tom Nook, Ashley, Chun-Li, etc, etc, etc.

There is not going to be individual DLC characters in Ultimate. Piranha Plant was ALWAYS meant for the base game. It's not some random project that they were doing on the side line, made on a whim or wanting to try something out, they decided that Piranha Plant was going to part of this game from the very beginning. They had a Palutena's Guidance made up, they made sure there was never a Piranha Plant spirit in the game, this was decided way back in 2015. They didn't have enough time to finish him up so they just delayed it to be DLC so the game can release on November to get as much sells due to the holidays which also help sell more Switch consoles, and they can progress with the Fighters Pass at a reasonable time instead having to delay everything in order to get a stupid plant part of the roster. The main reason why Vol 2 is going to take a lot long to finish is because they have less people working on the DLC and they had all the focus on finishing up Vol 1 by January 2020. They had to finish up Vol 1 before they can even start on Vol 2, which is also why the first DLC character on Vol 2 is releasing so late.
Vol 1 and all the characters were planned in advance, Vol 2 wasn't planned until they saw how well Vol 1 did.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Piranha Plant was ALWAYS meant for the base game. It's not some random project that they were doing on the side line, made on a whim or wanting to try something out, they decided that Piranha Plant was going to part of this game from the very beginning. They had a Palutena's Guidance made up, they made sure there was never a Piranha Plant spirit in the game, this was decided way back in 2015. They didn't have enough time to finish him up so they just delayed it to be DLC so the game can release on November to get as much sells due to the holidays which also help sell more Switch consoles, and they can progress with the Fighters Pass at a reasonable time instead having to delay everything in order to get a stupid plant part of the roster. The main reason why Vol 2 is going to take a lot long to finish is because they have less people working on the DLC and they had all the focus on finishing up Vol 1 by January 2020. They had to finish up Vol 1 before they can even start on Vol 2, which is also why the first DLC character on Vol 2 is releasing so late.
Vol 1 and all the characters were planned in advance, Vol 2 wasn't planned until they saw how well Vol 1 did.

Yeah, it might've been meant for base game.

Palutena's Guidance was based upon development factors. PP was developed near the end of base game, which is why it had one. Likewise, there's no known timing of when the Guidances were recorded, so it's worthless data to use an argument due to a lack of any information on it. It can't prove anything either way. Of course they would remove the Spirit if the character is DLC or playable in any form, changing it to a Fighter Spirit. Neither are really strong arguments whatsoever. In fact, the Spirit thing only pits it more as being DLC originally, since Sakurai had to approve of all the Spirits too. The actual spirits got finished being decided around 2017, around when Banjo-Kazooie were rumored to be chosen. What it fits at best is DLC and Spirits were decided with each other in mind, nothing else. Spirits so far mean little as an argument beyond why base game spirits had little chance of being Fighter's Pass 1. There's also zero evidence of PP having a planned spirit that was removed either. It could've just never had one cause it was always DLC. It's, again, not really useful information we have on any of the development right now.

The so-called evidence is highly coincidental. The most we've gotten is a possibility the data was cut out during development, but we don't know anything about how development went other than Spirits being worked on a bit later on at best. It was not decided from the start. To further clarify the data, when PP is worked on doesn't change whether it was always DLC or not. Due to Sakurai's statements on the project plan, PP was either added as DLC from the start, added later as a DLC character, or moved to DLC. He never added or removed characters outright from the project plan(yes, this means ARMS and Rex simply were not on the final character list. They weren't really planned so much as considered and discarded due to timing, to be more clear). So that means anything could've happened. Now, it could've been thought upon later on during even the first year, which would not put it on the project plan for base in context. This would explain why the data existed where it did. However, that also means the missing data was that they changed when PP started work on at best. It doesn't really point towards much of anything. PP's only data outright was found in September at the earliest. Here's another thing to note; that could've been Hero's data too that was cut. He was planned for base game, and that could've been just proof of concept they had data on. This isn't as likely, mind you. Also, since Hero was meant for base game, it kind of contradicts Sakurai's statement. But that's also why I think PP wasn't even delayed either, since we really just don't know enough to make a viable conclusion. I'd love more development notes. PP of course could've been meant for base and changed for DLC. We just only have a slightly decent amount of evidence and two coincidental moments at best(Spirits are even more theorycrafting, since we don't have evidence of any spirits being removed beyond literally three).

You're making this based upon flawed and highly incomplete data.

We have no hard evidence beyond Sakurai saying no more DLC planned beyond FP2, which he already said for FP!, meaning it's still up in the air. We easily can get bonus DLC later on and no difference would be made.

We know way less than your conclusion comes to.

 

[cmbsfm]

While the whole Microsoft is buying SEGA thing was obviously false based on people I talked to on Twitter and just basic common knowledge (Seriously this Quarantine is causing people making the most baseless ****)

Can the whole "Rare IPs died when they where bought by Microsoft!" meme die off?

Rarerare was dying (and mismanaged) even before they where boughtout

It should be evidence when the guys left and got to make a original project without Microsoft and it still flop eitherway

Plus leadership of Xbox is different than it was back then. Phil Spencer is the GOAT.

 

[GoodGrief741]

That and Rare was a Western company much like Microsoft. Sega is a Japanese company and I guess their laws stipulate that a Western company can’t buy them out. It’s also why Nintendo can never be acquired by Disney. I found this out not too long ago.

I was curious and I looked it up, and not sure where you got it from, but it's not true.

 

[EricTheGamerman]

Yeah, it might've been meant for base game.

Palutena's Guidance was based upon development factors. PP was developed near the end of base game, which is why it had one. Likewise, there's no known timing of when the Guidances were recorded, so it's worthless data to use an argument due to a lack of any information on it. It can't prove anything either way. Of course they would remove the Spirit if the character is DLC or playable in any form, changing it to a Fighter Spirit. Neither are really strong arguments whatsoever. In fact, the Spirit thing only pits it more as being DLC originally, since Sakurai had to approve of all the Spirits too. The actual spirits got finished being decided around 2017, around when Banjo-Kazooie were rumored to be chosen. What it fits at best is DLC and Spirits were decided with each other in mind, nothing else. Spirits so far mean little as an argument beyond why base game spirits had little chance of being Fighter's Pass 1. There's also zero evidence of PP having a planned spirit that was removed either. It could've just never had one cause it was always DLC. It's, again, not really useful information we have on any of the development right now.

The so-called evidence is highly coincidental. The most we've gotten is a possibility the data was cut out during development, but we don't know anything about how development went other than Spirits being worked on a bit later on at best. It was not decided from the start. To further clarify the data, when PP is worked on doesn't change whether it was always DLC or not. Due to Sakurai's statements on the project plan, PP was either added as DLC from the start, added later as a DLC character, or moved to DLC. He never added or removed characters outright from the project plan(yes, this means ARMS and Rex simply were not on the final character list. They weren't really planned so much as considered and discarded due to timing, to be more clear). So that means anything could've happened. Now, it could've been thought upon later on during even the first year, which would not put it on the project plan for base in context. This would explain why the data existed where it did. However, that also means the missing data was that they changed when PP started work on at best. It doesn't really point towards much of anything. PP's only data outright was found in September at the earliest. Here's another thing to note; that could've been Hero's data too that was cut. He was planned for base game, and that could've been just proof of concept they had data on. This isn't as likely, mind you. Also, since Hero was meant for base game, it kind of contradicts Sakurai's statement. But that's also why I think PP wasn't even delayed either, since we really just don't know enough to make a viable conclusion. I'd love more development notes. PP of course could've been meant for base and changed for DLC. We just only have a slightly decent amount of evidence and two coincidental moments at best(Spirits are even more theorycrafting, since we don't have evidence of any spirits being removed beyond literally three).

You're making this based upon flawed and highly incomplete data.

We have no hard evidence beyond Sakurai saying no more DLC planned beyond FP2, which he already said for FP!, meaning it's still up in the air. We easily can get bonus DLC later on and no difference would be made.

We know way less than your conclusion comes to.

Sakurai never said that Fighter's Pass 1 was the only DLC they would ever make for Ultimate, and certainly nothing as definitive as the last Famitsu column in which he came straight out and said these 6 would be the last 6 he intended developing for Ultimate. Could potentially more come down the line? Maybe, but that's a big maybe and there's no reason for us to think that we're getting more DLC at this point with something that definitive. By the time DLC ends, they'll have worked on Ultimate for 5 years, and DLC for it for half that time. I just wouldn't count on more DLC tbh.

 

[StarBot]

Plus leadership of Xbox is different than it was back then. Phil Spencer is the GOAT.

Ehhhhhhhhhhhhh, to be fair, the only 4 RARE projects that Phil Spencer was ahead of was

1. that Rare Replay compilation (which I don't count)
2. That Killer Instinct reboot that went nowhere
3. Sea of Thieves........ yeah
4. And that Battletoads reboot that pissed off reactionary gamers on twitter for a brief, because they didn't make villian sexy and the game looked too simplify and cartoon-like "MUH CALARTS" or whatever

I never thought the Battletoads was good to begin with, but I personally loved the art style imo, so I'm sorta optimistic that it will be first good to decent one for me

But, it's been like..... months? almost a year? Since we last heard about it, and some people who have played it criticized how slow it was? Or something along those lines...

So yeah, not a good track record so far :/

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Anyway as someone stated the rumor of Microsoft buying Sega is a 4chan rumor so I wouldn’t put stock in it

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Sakurai never said that Fighter's Pass 1 was the only DLC they would ever make for Ultimate, and certainly nothing as definitive as the last Famitsu column in which he came straight out and said these 6 would be the last 6 he intended developing for Ultimate. Could potentially more come down the line? Maybe, but that's a big maybe and there's no reason for us to think that we're getting more DLC at this point with something that definitive. By the time DLC ends, they'll have worked on Ultimate for 5 years, and DLC for it for half that time. I just wouldn't count on more DLC tbh.

No, I mean he said "nothing else was planned". People seem to take it to mean something else. Which is there's some silly belief no other DLC can happen. He's not outright declared this is the final thing. He's declared he has no current plans for future DLC. Very huge difference.

I agree with you point. Maybe I said that poorly in the previous post you quoted. ._.

 

[wynn728]

Yeah, it might've been meant for base game.

Palutena's Guidance was based upon development factors. PP was developed near the end of base game, which is why it had one. Likewise, there's no known timing of when the Guidances were recorded, so it's worthless data to use an argument due to a lack of any information on it. It can't prove anything either way. Of course they would remove the Spirit if the character is DLC or playable in any form, changing it to a Fighter Spirit. Neither are really strong arguments whatsoever. In fact, the Spirit thing only pits it more as being DLC originally, since Sakurai had to approve of all the Spirits too. The actual spirits got finished being decided around 2017, around when Banjo-Kazooie were rumored to be chosen. What it fits at best is DLC and Spirits were decided with each other in mind, nothing else. Spirits so far mean little as an argument beyond why base game spirits had little chance of being Fighter's Pass 1. There's also zero evidence of PP having a planned spirit that was removed either. It could've just never had one cause it was always DLC. It's, again, not really useful information we have on any of the development right now.

The so-called evidence is highly coincidental. The most we've gotten is a possibility the data was cut out during development, but we don't know anything about how development went other than Spirits being worked on a bit later on at best. It was not decided from the start.

You're making this based upon flawed and highly incomplete data.

We have no hard evidence beyond Sakurai saying no more DLC planned beyond FP2, which he already said for FP!, meaning it's still up in the air. We easily can get bonus DLC later on and no difference would be made.

We know way less than your conclusion comes to.

You want some more evidence? How about the fact that they had an amiibo ready for Piranha Plant to go for the second wave of Smash Ultimate Amiibo? It takes a while to get these amiibos to release and Piranha Plant was released way before many of the base roster characters. As of now the only Smash Bros Ultimate amiibos that were released the base roster characters and Piranha Plant, none of the DLC characters got their amiibos yet. This really shows that they had plans for Piranha Plant extremely early on. Piranha Plant isn't some random bonus character because they had extra time on their hands, this is planned extremely early on. There's way too many "coincidences" for it not be real. There is never going to be a bonus DLC character in Ultimate.

 

[EricTheGamerman]

Ehhhhhhhhhhhhh, to be fair, the only 4 RARE projects that Phil Spencer was ahead of was

1. that Rare Replay compilation (which I don't count)
2. That Killer Instinct reboot that went nowhere
3. Sea of Thieves........ yeah
4. And that Battletoads reboot that pissed off reactionary gamers on twitter for a brief, because they didn't make villian sexy and the game looked too simplify and cartoon-like "MUH CALARTS" or whatever

I never thought the Battletoads was good to begin with, but I personally loved the art style imo, so I'm sorta optimistic that it will be first good to decent one for me

But, it's been like..... months? almost a year? Since we last heard about it, and some people who have played it criticized how slow it was? Or something along those lines...

So yeah, not a good track record so far :/

I wouldn't say the Killer Instinct reboot went nowhere. It's still considered one of the Xbox One's best exclusives; had a full 3 seasons of characters including guests from Battletoads, Gears of War, and Halo; and is actually quite beloved by a lot of fighting game fans. Maybe not a huge breakout success, but an incredibly solid return for Killer Instinct it seemed, and KI was never that huge to begin with.

 

[Wunderwaft]

I wouldn't say the Killer Instinct reboot went nowhere. It's still considered one of the Xbox One's best exclusives; had a full 3 seasons of characters including guests from Battletoads, Gears of War, and Halo; and is actually quite beloved by a lot of fighting game fans. Maybe not a huge breakout success, but an incredibly solid return for Killer Instinct it seemed, and KI was never that huge to begin with.

I hope we get a sequel sometime soon. Killer Instinct alongside MvC3 and Tekken 7 are one of my most memorable fighting games that I had the most fun with from the previous decade.

 

[SKX31]

Ehhhhhhhhhhhhh, to be fair, the only 4 RARE projects that Phil Spencer was ahead of was

1. that Rare Replay compilation (which I don't count)
2. That Killer Instinct reboot that went nowhere
3. Sea of Thieves........ yeah
4. And that Battletoads reboot that pissed off reactionary gamers on twitter for a brief, because they didn't make villian sexy and the game looked too simplify and cartoon-like "MUH CALARTS" or whatever

I never thought the Battletoads was good to begin with, but I personally loved the art style imo, so I'm sorta optimistic that it will be first good to decent one for me

But, it's been like..... months? almost a year? Since we last heard about it, and some people who have played it criticized how slow it was? Or something along those lines...

So yeah, not a good track record so far :/

Beyond what EricTheGamerman said:

Sea of Thieves did reach 10 million players this past January and was named "the most successful new IP from Xbox this generation.". (Honestly I'm not exactly sure what the SoT thing you're talking about is - remind me please? Was it the rocky start?) Anyway, it's become Rare's new focus, and one could argue justifiably so (it feels like how much Blizzard focused on WoW during its mid 2000s peak).

 

[King Sonnn DeDeDoo]

Mfw (My Face When) someone says the Killer Instinct reboot isn't that best traditional 2D fighting game of the past decade.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

You want some more evidence? How about the fact that they had an amiibo ready for Piranha Plant to go for the second wave of Smash Ultimate Amiibo? It takes a while to get these amiibos to release and Piranha Plant was released way before many of the base roster characters. As of now the only Smash Bros Ultimate amiibos that were released the base roster characters and Piranha Plant, none of the DLC characters got their amiibos yet. This really shows that they had plans for Piranha Plant extremely early on. Piranha Plant isn't some random bonus character because they had extra time on their hands, this is planned extremely early on. There's way too many "coincidences" for it not be real. There is never going to be a bonus DLC character in Ultimate.

...Because it was planned for DLC and got an amiibo ready... within a year of it being developed? You are aware they don't take that long to plan for 1st party characters right? It was released around the same time as PP, who takes longer to make overall in comparison. It released at the same time as PP, and amiibo generally don't take that long to make beyond 3rd party ones. 3rd Party amiibo take longer to make because of licensing issues. Take a look at how long most took to come out. Any time you use someone's IP, especially for amiibo, they have details that are extremely important to remember. Making sure the coloring is right. Making sure the pose is exact. The quality of it. And so on. 3rd parties are very fickle. Why do you think Cloud and Bayonetta got 2? Why do you think they took a long time to come out too? Because they needed more planning around them. 1st Party amiibo(note that this doesn't apply to Pokemon who 3 companies have to work together) take far less shorter, including PP, cause there's no real issues to deal with. There's nothing to suggest PP took ages to be created, so it's a moot point. You are again missing any actual details for them to be actually strong evidence in your favor. Yes, these are just as easily coincidences. You need to have actual data to back up these points. Which there is none whatsoever that make it clear and obvious.

I think I slightly misunderstood your amiibo point, but we can't really say how long some 1st party ones took in comparison. You might notice the new amiibo were 1st party, then 2nd/3rd party, regardless of DLC. So I don't think it means all that much. The priority seems to relate to licensing, not order of the characters reveealed.

No, he can just as easily be a bonus character because they had enough time on their hands for that. As a priority over game modes, which were cut anyway due to a lack of development time. PP wouldn't have changed that, really. They put HRC as the last mode as is, low priority. That's not a PP factor. That's a "too many characters as is to work on" factor.

 

[Dinoman96]

Rare also has a new IP coming out, Everwild.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Whose to say Sakurai finishes Smash Ultimate after the second season pass and Nintendo seeing how the DLC sells continues with individual DLC or another Pass but without Sakurai?

 

[chocolatejr9]

Whose to say Sakurai finishes Smash Ultimate after the second season pass and Nintendo seeing how the DLC sells continues with individual DLC or another Pass but without Sakurai?

But then the question becomes "if not Sakurai, then who?".

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Whose to say Sakurai finishes Smash Ultimate after the second season pass and Nintendo seeing how the DLC sells continues with individual DLC or another Pass but without Sakurai?

Exactly. This is how Fighter's Pass 2 came about. They felt the sales justified it. Of course, Sakurai doesn't need to be there. He likely will be till Ultimate is done, but this is a huge project. He seems to be closer and closer to retiring from Smash.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

But then the question becomes "if not Sakurai, then who?".

Uh Nintendo as an whole obviously.

 

[GoodGrief741]

I wouldn't say the Killer Instinct reboot went nowhere. It's still considered one of the Xbox One's best exclusives; had a full 3 seasons of characters including guests from Battletoads, Gears of War, and Halo; and is actually quite beloved by a lot of fighting game fans. Maybe not a huge breakout success, but an incredibly solid return for Killer Instinct it seemed, and KI was never that huge to begin with.

To be fair, while KI is an amazing game, being one of the Xbox One's best exclusives isn't that high a bar.

Beyond what EricTheGamerman said:

Sea of Thieves did reach 10 million players this past January and was named "the most successful new IP from Xbox this generation.". (Honestly I'm not exactly sure what the SoT thing you're talking about is - remind me please? Was it the rocky start?) Anyway, it's become Rare's new focus, and one could argue justifiably so (it feels like how much Blizzard focused on WoW during its mid 2000s peak).

Yeah, it got that many players because of Game Pass. It didn't sell 10 million copies. They also spun State of Decay's miserable reviews and sales into a positive because people were willing to try it out for the low price of nothing. That's a testament to Game Pass and its ability to get players to try out games, it's not a measure of success for the game.

 

[DarthEnderX]

Joker was a total surprise too, even though he was Atlus, but they acted fast in revealing him

Yeah but they kept him a surprise by announcing him super early, likely before they'd even started working on him.