Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Which made a hideous awkwardly-proportioned furry even more hideous.

Disagree on all accounts, but that's a matter of taste.

It has a ton of animations that make it feel like a model swap of a human wrestler, you mean.

Um. No. That doesn't even make sense. He doesn't even have the proportions to make that a reality.

Even if you do turn items on, those ATs aren't the only items that can smack you around/blow you away/lift you up/slow you down/bury you etc.

With that logic items in general don't have value because they can't do anything a fighter can't.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Wow

I'm not trying to bait you. We clearly just have different mindsets, IE: I think having something already shouldn't be a reason to want that something to be something more, and I don't want Pokemon to have its own equivalent of FE's Marth stereotype.

I've seen many people criticize how Pokemon gets to be the favourite child and gets predetermined slots before a game's release for many things, but it seems that the only people who whine about them being similar is you, unlike FE where everyone on the planet has criticized for lack of moveset variety

 

[ZelDan]

honestly, AT's and them disconfirming (potentially FP2 aside) aside , Isaac's in particular bothers me since it doesn't really properly represent him or the Golden Sun series. with all the new moves they gave his AT, they still didn't add any kind Earth-related moves, and what bothers me more is Isaac's voice; it's way to light or young sounding. He's supposed to be 16-17 in the GBA games, not 9-10.

 

[Guynamednelson]

Um. No. That doesn't even make sense. He doesn't even have the proportions to make that a reality.

Incineroar's leg day skipping doesn't prevent this mod from existing.

With that logic items in general don't have value because they can't do anything a fighter can't.

That's only really true if you main Hero. Mushrooms whether they be from Mario or Earthbound, healing items, etc. still can do things your fighter might not have access to.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I'm not trying to bait you. We clearly just have different mindsets, IE: I think having something already shouldn't be a reason to want that something to be something more, and I don't want Pokemon to have its own equivalent of FE's Marth stereotype.

https://smashboards.com/threads/newcomer-dlc-speculation-discussion.453424/post-23906252 You literally ignored everything but one sentence but not even the context around it.

Instead of explaining why you disliked Incineroar, you just used it as an example, one of the highest quality parts of Smash Ultimate.

It's pretty much bait.

Your opinion on quality is not some issue I'm having. But you aren't going convince me by using examples of content with some kind of quality behind them. Even your Isaac example was fair... if it wasn't cherrypicking me instead of properly responding.

So as I said, this conversation is over. I don't care about convincing you either. I made my points. You ignored them. That's a good reason to move on entirely.

 

[Guynamednelson]

I don't care about convincing you either

Eh, I should stop trying to convince people how Incineroar is bad when Smash fans don't like the idea of Pokemon being properly represented.

 

[Wunderwaft]

I think ATs would be more accepted by the community if they played a bigger role besides being a random item that may or may not give you the character you want. Not everyone can be a playable character and I understand this. Perhaps the next Smash title could take a page from MvC and make assist trophies pre-selected before the fight and an integral part of gameplay with the ability to summon them any time instead of them being an item to collect around the stage. Of course some ATs that are blatantly overpowered would have to be reworked for balancing reasons, but I think people would be more happy to see their favorite characters play a bigger role than what they currently are.

Of course I will always prefer a playable character at the end of the day, but I think this might be a middle ground that could satisfy some fans.

 

[Goombaic]

Incineroar's leg day skipping doesn't prevent this mod from existing.

This is why Min Min and Ninjara over Spring Man's animations is a terrible idea.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Incineroar's leg day skipping doesn't prevent this mod from existing.

Oh god. It's hideous. It also pretty much confirms that Incineroar could not have been a last minute model swap of Zangief; The proportions are different and the personality is way off.

That's only really true if you main Hero. Mushrooms whether they be from Mario or Earthbound, healing items, etc. still can do things your fighter might not have access to.

Well in that case, Assist Trophies have a ton of value because not every character can bury you. Or carry you off the top of the screen. Or stunlock you. Or has super armour. Or incredibly potent kill moves. Or incredibly powerful and spamable projectiles that don't even count as projectiles SHERIFF I WILL MURDER YOU!!!

 

[King Sonnn DeDeDoo]

I think Incineroar is ugly as sin, but I sure do have fun playing as him in smash

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Eh, I should stop trying to convince people how Incineroar is bad when Smash fans don't like the idea of Pokemon being properly represented.

Well, you didn't try to even do so from the start.

I'm not going to go into any of your points, but it would've been better if you just explained why you didn't like Incineroar from the start. Would've gotten a better reception. The first response towards you pointed out a lot of stuff of where it has quality, but that effectively is acting like you said any of that, when you obviously didn't. It's kind of hard to have a proper conversation if you don't give an argument from the start.

But yeah, it's a good idea to move on since it started poorly anyway. You're put in an unfair position here in the end cause you have to respond to stuff you never made an argument for in the first place, so...

 

[Metal Shop X]

This is why Min Min and Ninjara over Spring Man's animations is a terrible idea.

'guess the last thing I see today is Zangief crotch being on fire.

but for real, this doesn't look good. You can't just model swap a human character on Inci and call it a day (plus it remove Inci expression, the best part about him), Lucina, Ritcher and what have you are better for that.

 

[N3ON]

You know, it's kind of baffling that there are people who want fans of AT/spirit characters to get over it when it's people who didn't that contributed to this game's fighter roster.

People who didn't get over the loss of their favorite veterans.
People who didn't get over Sakurai himself believing Ridley's too big.
People who didn't get over Sakurai thinking Chrom wouldn't have been original.
People who didn't get over various anime swordsmen being more relevant than K. Rool.
People who didn't get over Nintendo selling Rareware to Microsoft.

My friend, if you've intrinsically tied caring about a character to feeling offended by unfavourable outcomes to the point you can't "let go" of the outcome without letting go of the character, that's pretty troubling.

You don't need to be offended to care about a character. You don't need to feel disrespected to continue supporting a character. I don't feel slapped in the face by Isaac's role, so by your logic that means I guess I no longer care about him and will now stop voicing my support.

Either way it's a farcical conflation. Support isn't built on the back of spite, it's built on the back of hope. Spite is what comes when dashed hope becomes bastardized.

 

[Sari]

Well it took a while but I just finished my latest Smash Underdogs article! The character this time?

Neku Sakuraba from The World Ends With You!

Click here to read the article!​

Not gonna lie, making this article made me want Neku in Smash a lot now to the point where he's probably now my most wanted Square Enix character.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Well it took a while but I just finished my latest Smash Underdogs article! The character this time?

Neku Sakuraba from The World Ends With You!

View attachment 269242

Click here to read the article!​

Not gonna lie, making this article made me want Neku in Smash a lot now to the point where he's probably now my most wanted Square Enix character.

Son of a ***** I didn't get to play TWEWY today but if you don't suggest gate Reapers in the background while our Mathematical Boi appears in the stage somehow then you's so Zetta lame bro

 

[Dark Bagel]

When I think of Assist Trophy the last thing I would ever associate them with is being "fun" or "enjoyable." This is a video game where the entire point is playing the game, not looking at a thing move around for 15 seconds with zero input or control.

Well, I suppose my support and advocacy for Shovel Knight's playability up until Ultimate has been all for naught, since he isn't a selectable fighter and is therefore reduced to an absolutely worthless, smoldering husk of a... mere cameo. *gasp* Alas, every piece of character representation in this game simply MUST be playable, or else whatever is the point? OH SAKURAI, I AM SLAIN. BURY ME HERE, IN THE NAME OF SHOVELRY. ENGRAVE "STEEL THY SHOVEL" UPON THINE TOMBSTONE, FOR ALL IS LOST

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Support isn't built on the back of spite, it's built on the back of hope. Spite is what comes when dashed hope becomes bastardized.

This reads like a hero's speech right before it and the villain face off in the final battle.

EDIT: Or before it gets its last minute BS powerup.

Son of a ***** I didn't get to play TWEWY today but if you don't suggest gate Reapers in the background while our Mathematical Boi appears in the stage somehow then you's so Zetta lame bro

I must now play The World Ends with You so I can understand what the heck any of that meant.

 

[wynn728]

You may not control them, but there's still your own character to worry about. If you just stand there they're gonna rough you up. Unless it's Starfy but that's kinda the point of him.

In other words, they may not be playable, but they're not just there for show either, and they do have a meaningful impact gameplay-wise (unless of course, you turn them off, in which case you never even see them).

Their only impact is to being annoying during battle, especially since many of these Assist Trophies just bad. First time I summon Akira he jump off the cliff, not even he wanted be an Assist Trophy. I turn that garbage off immediately.

 

[Professor Pumpkaboo]

man, I just want Layton, thats all I want

 

[King Sonnn DeDeDoo]

I think ATs would be more accepted by the community if they played a bigger role besides being a random item that may or may not give you the character you want. Not everyone can be a playable character and I understand this. Perhaps the next Smash title could take a page from MvC and make assist trophies pre-selected before the fight and an integral part of gameplay with the ability to summon them any time instead of them being an item to collect around the stage. Of course some ATs that are blatantly overpowered would have to be reworked for balancing reasons, but I think people would be more happy to see their favorite characters play a bigger role than what they currently are.

Of course I will always prefer a playable character at the end of the day, but I think this might be a middle ground that could satisfy some fans.

I’ve thought about marvel-like assists potentially being a unique aspect/selling point of a post-ultimate Smash game. From a gameplay perspective it would be interesting if you were able to choose from a pool of assist characters, essentially being able to customize your character’s move set options.

I imagine the next Smash game is going to have some extensive roster cuts, I could see some previously playable characters getting recycled back into character assists, but I don’t want to speculate too much since we are only halfway done with Ultimate’s DLC cycle.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

This reads like a hero's speech right before it and the villain face off in the final battle.

EDIT: Or before it gets its last minute BS powerup.


I must now play The World Ends with You so I can understand what the heck any of that meant.

Anyway smh Sari's article didn't include the delightfully edgy Transformation in the song list 0.1/10

 

[N3ON]

Fwiw when a kid is throwing a tantrum about not liking the specific thing you've given them, if you take it away and replace it with nothing, they don't actually become any happier.

 

[Wunderwaft]

View attachment 269244

Anyway smh Sari's article didn't include the delightfully edgy Transformation in the song list 0.1/10

A Trasformation remix is literally the most exciting thing to come from a Neku pack. That isn't a jab on Neku, that is telling of how good the song is.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Their only impact is to being annoying during battle, especially since many of these Assist Trophies just bad. First time I summon Akira he jump off the cliff, not even he wanted be an Assist Trophy. I turn that garbage off immediately.

I don't personally find them annoying (except Sherrif. He kills me without fail), but I can see why you would, as most of them demand your attention, and kill you for not avoiding them.

The AI isn't all that bad in this game. They don't fall off nearly as much anymore, and they warp back on stage when they do. That's not even counting the characters that don't move around the stage like a normal fighter does.

Spoiler: Image

View attachment 269244

This interaction is glorious. I'm sold.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

View attachment 269244

Anyway smh Sari's article didn't include the delightfully edgy Transformation in the song list 0.1/10

You spelled Emptiness and wrong

 

[N3ON]

I think ATs would be more accepted by the community if they played a bigger role besides being a random item that may or may not give you the character you want. Not everyone can be a playable character and I understand this. Perhaps the next Smash title could take a page from MvC and make assist trophies pre-selected before the fight and an integral part of gameplay with the ability to summon them any time instead of them being an item to collect around the stage. Of course some ATs that are blatantly overpowered would have to be reworked for balancing reasons, but I think people would be more happy to see their favorite characters play a bigger role than what they currently are.

Of course I will always prefer a playable character at the end of the day, but I think this might be a middle ground that could satisfy some fans.

The actual idea aside, this makes it sound like ATs aren't accepted by the community. Most of the community either doesn't care, or is absolutely fine with them. The dissidents are few and even fewer if you eliminated the ones just concerned with a single outcome that didn't pan out in the way they wanted.

 

[wynn728]

Well, I suppose my support and advocacy for Shovel Knight's playability up until Ultimate has been all for naught, since he isn't a selectable fighter and is therefore reduced to an absolutely worthless, smoldering husk of a... mere cameo. *gasp* Alas, every piece of character representation in this game simply MUST be playable, or else whatever is the point? OH SAKURAI, I AM SLAIN. BURY ME HERE, IN THE NAME OF SHOVELRY. ENGRAVE "STEEL THY SHOVEL" UPON THINE TOMBSTONE, FOR ALL IS LOST

Considering that Assist Trophies slots are for characters they think can't work as being playable and a Piranha Plant is playable then yeah, all your support was for nothing since all you will ever get is a one in 59 chance of randomly summon Shovel Knight for 15 seconds. Such great fan service, the generic enemy was way more worthwhile Fighter than Shovel Knight. Take it that you also have just having can enjoy Smash Bros by having only the CPU fighting or went wild in the theaters when you saw your favorite character for a single second in Ready Player One. For me the real and only fun when it comes to the video game Super Smash Bros Ultimate is actually playing the video game.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

You spelled Emptiness and wrong

Haven't reached that yet, I only just got Beat

I don't personally find them annoying (except Sherrif. He kills me without fail), but I can see why you would, as most of them demand your attention, and kill you for not avoiding them.

The AI isn't all that bad in this game. They don't fall off nearly as much anymore, and they warp back on stage when they do. That's not even counting the characters that don't move around the stage like a normal fighter does.


This interaction is glorious. I'm sold.

TWEWY also has a ****ton of cultural influence. You know that Komaeda guy? The creepy dude with white hair who's rather homoerotic who started an entire character archetype? Yeah Komaeda's a ****in fraud

 

[King Sonnn DeDeDoo]

man, I just want Layton, thats all I want

Hey, is your Villager wearing an Alfendi Layton shirt? If so, nice.

Here’s to hoping that we see our dear professor in Smash someday.

 

[CapitaineCrash]

I think ATs would be more accepted by the community if they played a bigger role besides being a random item that may or may not give you the character you want. Not everyone can be a playable character and I understand this. Perhaps the next Smash title could take a page from MvC and make assist trophies pre-selected before the fight and an integral part of gameplay with the ability to summon them any time instead of them being an item to collect around the stage. Of course some ATs that are blatantly overpowered would have to be reworked for balancing reasons, but I think people would be more happy to see their favorite characters play a bigger role than what they currently are.

Of course I will always prefer a playable character at the end of the day, but I think this might be a middle ground that could satisfy some fans.

I think even with that there will be poor reception by some fans. The biggest reason why people hate AT is because they feel that some of them could have been playable (Waluigi, Isaac, Zero etc.) Nobody is mad about Andross, Dr. Kawashima, Nightmare or Rathalos for being an AT because they couldn't be playable either because they're too big (unironically) or/and don't really have moveset potential. If Isaac is a spirit, a trophy, a assit trophy, a sticker, or a support character or really anything that you could come up with that isn't playable, reception will be poor because people can imagine him easily as a playable fighter.

 

[snowgolem]

Professor Layton vs Phoenix Wright

now, if only we could recreate it in a certain fighting game...

 

[Professor Pumpkaboo]

Hey, is your Villager wearing an Alfendi Layton shirt? If so, nice.

Here’s to hoping that we see our dear professor in Smash someday.

yep, they are, hes my fav Layton

and yeah, I hope he gets in smash one way or another

 

[metalhydra273]

There's quite a few AT chars that could definitely work as fighters if Nintendo wanted them in. It's just that they don't want to use a slot on them, but are willing to give them something more than just a spirit. It's a mix of these types of assists (waluigi for example) and lesser characters/franchises that wouldn't work well as fighters (like chain chomp and pong)

 

[N3ON]

Considering that Assist Trophies slots are for characters they think can't work as being playable and a Piranha Plant is playable then yeah, all your support was for nothing since all you will ever get is a one in 59 chance of randomly summon Shovel Knight for 15 seconds. Such great fan service, the generic enemy was way more worthwhile Fighter than Shovel Knight. Take it that you also have just having can enjoy Smash Bros by having only the CPU fighting or went wild in the theaters when you saw your favorite character for a single second in Ready Player One. For me the real and only fun when it comes to the video game Super Smash Bros Ultimate is actually playing the video game.

So your plan to provide better fanservice, short of being able to actually add more characters, would presumably be to... eliminate content.

I know fans always love when you give them fewer ways to play a game.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Considering that Assist Trophies slots are for characters they think can't work as being playable and a Piranha Plant is playable then yeah, all your support was for nothing since all you will ever get is a one in 59 chance of randomly summon Shovel Knight for 15 seconds.

Assist Trophies are slots for characters they don't have the time or resources to make characters for, but feel like acknowledging anyway. It is not a means of telling fans that some characters are better than others.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

There's quite a few AT chars that could definitely work as fighters if Nintendo wanted them in. It's just that they don't want to use a slot on them, but are willing to give them something more than just a spirit. It's a mix of these types of assists (waluigi for example) and lesser characters/franchises that wouldn't work well as fighters (like chain chomp and pong)

Color-Game TV 15, actually.

But yeah, exactly. Not everything is on the table. And that's fine. That's just how life is.

We all got our ideal rosters, etc. I've wanted Isaac playable since Brawl was announced. I remember him being on my wishlist. 4 and Ultimate didn't deliver either. I was most disappointed in him not having at least an AT in 4, sadly. It was a simple one, sure. But hey, Golden Sun isn't just about combat, but puzzles. So I do like he represents pysnergy and puzzles, a core part of the gameplay. Him being playable can also bring the Djinn into the mix, which I feel is a necessity in properly representing Golden Sun. Of course, that doesn't mean it would happen, but that's fair if it doesn't.

 

[snowgolem]

Don’t cut assist trophies, but definitely change it up. Maybe like MHOJ (if you don’t know it don’t bother looking it up) where you pick two assist trophies before the match, as ‘sidekicks’. Someone said something similar to this earlier. There can be meters that let you know when you can use them. They won’t be like assist trophies are now, they’ll just use an attack which has a large hitbox. Then they disappear. But they can also be saved up, and if you have them both charged up and use your final smash, your final smash will be combined with a very strong move from both sidekicks.

 

[King Sonnn DeDeDoo]

Professor Layton vs Phoenix Wright

now, if only we could recreate it in a certain fighting game...

If I was able to get both of them it would be a dream come true, you’re getting me hyped just thinking about the possibility!

 

[metalhydra273]

Yeah I liked the idea someone mentioned earlier where it's similar to MVC1 you get a random one or two (or select them) that you can use on will a select number of times or something like that. Could be a fun special mode.

 

[Guynamednelson]

Assist Trophies are slots for characters they don't have the time or resources to make characters for, but feel like acknowledging anyway. It is not a means of telling fans that some characters are better than others.

Of course, but at the same time whenever Wynn shows up it feels like the same people go "NO YOU CAN'T WANT THEM PLAYABLE YOU HAVE TO APPRECIATE HOW THEY'RE IN THE GAME AT ALL" while in conversations about AT promos sans Wynn it's perfectly fine to want them.