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Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

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SMAASH! Puppy

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Alright, question, from this screenshot of the last kirby game, which character wouldn't you mind seeing in Smash Bros as a DLC?
The characters on the left are who I want most/who got in the game first.

In the game: Kirby, Meta Knight, King Dedede
Would want: Bandana Waddle Dee, Daroach, Marx, Rick & Kine & Koo, Magolor
No thanks: Adeline & Ribbon, Suzie, Taranza, The Three Mage-Sisters, Dark Meta Knight, Gooey
Unranked because not a Kirby character: Waluigi

EDIT: Just to clarify a few things, I don't dislike Adeline & Ribbon, but I don't really have a connection to them. The characters in the "Would want" category are so close together in how much I like them they're almost interchangeable, and may change with further consideration. At face value though, their order is valid. I don't like Gooey. Like, reeeealy don't like him. I have no idea why, but I want him less than a character that would be difficult to tell apart from another character and would be forced into really muted and samey color pallets...yeah.

EDIT EDIT: I just realized all of the new Kirby villains have disembodied hands...
 
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RileyXY1

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Both of them are however alternate costumes. That'd be one of the more out of left field ways to promote a character.
On the other hand, Adeleine and Ribbon are not in Ultimate at all, not that it means anything, just something I want to point out.
 

Goombaic

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Alright, question, from this screenshot of the last kirby game, which character wouldn't you mind seeing in Smash Bros as a DLC?

Every Kirby character is valid. The characters that aren't in the image are never getting in, though. If the fanservice game for your home series ignores you, what chance do you have in Smash? Gives off Vaati vibes.
 
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Mamboo07

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I swear Smash fans are just ungrateful, entitled and spoiled whiny people always hating Fire Emblem and throwing salty tantrums like a manchild over characters getting into Smash instead of many popular and requested characters they always whinging and demanding for. Oh and don't forget them blaming poor Sakurai when a character they want doesn't get in. (No offense.)
 

chocolatejr9

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I swear Smash fans are just ungrateful, entitled and spoiled whiny people always hating Fire Emblem and throwing salty tantrums like a manchild over characters getting into Smash instead of many popular and requested characters they always whinging and demanding for. Oh and don't forget them blaming poor Sakurai when a character they want doesn't get in. (No offense.)
You're only NOW noticing that?
 

RileyXY1

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I swear Smash fans are just ungrateful, entitled and spoiled whiny people always hating Fire Emblem and throwing salty tantrums like a manchild over characters getting into Smash instead of many popular and requested characters they always whinging and demanding for. Oh and don't forget them blaming poor Sakurai when a character they want doesn't get in. (No offense.)
Fire Emblem is just overhated in general in this community. It's mostly because the movesets of FE are usually copy pasted between characters and some people don't think that the series deserves as many reps as it does.
 

Icedragonadam

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My dream scenario for the direct on the 26th is:

"Here's a bunch of Tales games being ported to the Switch as a celebration of the series's 25th anniversary, by the way here's something else."

*Lloyd/Yuri/Velvet/Shirley Fennes is revealed as FP6.*

Okay maybe not that last one.
 
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NoOtherPersona

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My dream scenario for the direct on the 26th is:

"Here's a bunch of Tales games being ported to the Switch as a celebration of the series's 25th anniversary, by the way here's something else."

*Lloyd/Yuri/Velvet/Shirley Fennes is revealed as FP6.*

Okay maybe not that last one.
All drastically different Fighting styles converging into one being
 

N3ON

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FE gets hate on the basis of being the embodiment of overrepresentation. It has nothing to do with FE itself. People may voice criticism towards the swords or the similar looks, but no matter how diverse the cast was, you'd still hear people finding something to harp on about. On the other hand, if FE had half the characters it does, you'd hear very little against it. Because the root of the acrimony stems from the quantity, not the quality.

People who think it's genuine FE hate which drives that sentiment forward must not have been paying attention in the earlier days of Smash 4 when the ire was directed at Kid Icarus. Or during Brawl when it was Star Fox and Kirby. And every Kirby character is completely unique, so it's not like diversity was ever an issue there. Before that, I assume it was Zelda. Seldom was ****ting on FE heard in those days, apart from people simply bemoaning the cyclical nature of the Ike vs. Lyn, or Chrom vs. Lucina vs. Robin vs. Roy conversations.

The antipathy being directed at the series seen as "punching above their weight" in terms of numbers is the true commonality. Like 95% of the series-specific complaints bleed out from that underlying grievance. I mean, you don't hear people complaining about KI, SF or Kirby much these days, do you?
 
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D

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FE gets hate on the basis of being the embodiment of overrepresentation. It has nothing to do with FE itself. People may voice criticism towards the swords or the similar looks, but no matter how diverse the cast was, you'd still hear the complaints. On the other hand, if FE had half the characters it does, you'd hear very little against it. Because the root of the acrimony stems from the quantity, not the quality.
Playing devil's advocate, if overrepresentation is the root of the issue, why is it that Mario characters and Pokemon characters are generally better accepted? Frequent discussions here support the idea of Waluigi, Geno, and Gen 8 representation as newcomers--with both series already having a unique newcomer within Ultimate in the form of :ultpiranha: and :ultincineroar: respectively. Meanwhile, only Chrom as an echo appeared for Ultimate before Byleth, and then Byleth was immediately considered divisive upon reveal. From this perspective, I could argue that there is a stronger apathy toward Fire Emblem than the series listed above, and it's not because of overrepresentation.
 
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snowgolem

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Ideal direct on 26th:
Starts in the DK house where Banjo was revealed. Everybody is vibing, with Banjo now in the mix. Then they hear explosions and etc-ish sounds outside. They all rush to the hole where the window was, Banjo breaking it further. They look up to see a silhouette of Master Chief. *intense zoom-in* But wait- it’s actually Steve! Steve gameplay etc etc. Shows Steve beating the heck out of Banjo. Cut back to trailer. Steve is standing at the top of a bunch of game ended fighters, being the triumphant icon of gaming. But then he gets vibe checked by Master Chief. Splash screen and then trailer ends right there. It doesn’t need anything else.
 

P.Kat

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I got another interesting question.
what character would you like/love to see that originated from the past decades staring from
the 1980s to the 2010s?
here's my list
1980s:Ryu Hayabusa(Ninja Gaiden).
1990s:Spyro the Dragon.
2000s:a Sim(The Sims).
2010s:Knack.
1980's: Ryu Hayabusa
1990's: Sakura Shinguji
2000's: Amaterasu
2010's: 2B
So a lot of people are speculating based on character names. But what about mechanics? Is there a specific gimmick you'd like to see in Smash? Or a specific type of ability?
I really want a quirk revolving around art, I also would really like to see a weapon stance character able to change weapons similar to how Pokemon Trainer switches Pokemon.

Also a character that stores power in their blade the more damage they inflict on the fighter, and release it. I know Cloud does this, but I'd want someone who can do that with the Iaido swordstyle (but with a better recovery than Cloud.) Until someone like that comes along Cloud will have to do.

Other than that I personally want characters with a fast, quick, nimble gamestyle, who can get in an enemy's face, deal damage and get out; dodging the enemy's attacks, and repeat the process again like Sheik.
 

NoOtherPersona

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Playing devil's advocate, if overrepresentation is the root of the issue, why is it that Mario characters and Pokemon characters are generally better accepted? Frequent discussions here support the idea of Waluigi, Geno, and Gen 8 representation as newcomers--with both series already having a unique newcomer within Ultimate in the form of :ultpiranha: and :ultincineroar: respectively. Meanwhile, only Chrom as an echo appeared for Ultimate before Byleth, and then Byleth was immediately considered divisive upon reveal. From this perspective, I could argue that there is a stronger apathy toward Fire Emblem than the series listed above, and it's not because of overrepresentation.
I mean besides the clones in there respective series mario characters and pokemon play differently from each other so there isn't as much anger while the a good chunk of the FE crew plays the same
 

N3ON

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Playing devil's advocate, if overrepresentation is the root of the issue, why is it that Mario characters and Pokemon characters are generally better accepted? Frequent discussions here support the idea of Waluigi, Geno, and Gen 8 representation as newcomers--with both series already having a unique newcomer in the form of :ultpiranha: and :ultincineroar: respectively. Meanwhile, only Chrom as an echo appeared for Ultimate before Byleth, and then Byleth was immediately considered divisive upon reveal. From this perspective, I could argue that there is a stronger apathy toward Fire Emblem than the series listed above, and it's not because of overrepresentation.
Well there's not some uniform, series-wide "cap" as to how many characters a series can get before it's seen as overrepresented. When the perceived ceiling kicks in depends both on how big the series is and at which number other series reside, which is why Mario and Pokemon, being the two biggest series, have the highest ceilings. I mean you could bump Zelda up to like eight characters and people would be fine with that, but if you bumped Kirby (or DK, or Metroid, etc etc) up to eight people would lose it.

Fire Emblem is around the same size as Kirby, DK, Metroid, etc. So it's seen as having a lower representational ceiling than Mario, Pokemon, Zelda, etc. but higher than the likes of Xenoblade, Kid Icarus, Mother, etc. Not that the ceiling is some precise, objective metric, it's all just about proportion.

So Mario and Pokemon are not generally seen as overrepresented for the same reason something like Pikmin or Punch-Out isn't generally seen as underrepresented. Because it's framed against the stature and the status of the series. It's why even just with two characters, people acknowledge Mother receives a generous amount of attention.

It's not like there's a firm equation, but you have to be a little oblivious to not see that by and large there is a rough correlation between size of series and volume of representation, with the only real exceptions being because the series is still relatively new to Smash (AC, Splatoon), owing to lack of feasible additions, or subject to intense disdain, (whether FE, KI, Kirby or Star Fox, depending on the time period). It's no coincidence that when the series is seen to "balance back out", the complaints stop.

I mean, it even exists to a lesser degree with third-parties. If you added another two Street Fighter characters, or two Castlevania characters, but left the others as is, people would start getting a little discontented. And it really has nothing to do with people hating on SF or Castlevania as series.
 
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pinshadow

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Playing devil's advocate, if overrepresentation is the root of the issue, why is it that Mario characters and Pokemon characters are generally better accepted? Frequent discussions here support the idea of Waluigi, Geno, and Gen 8 representation as newcomers--with both series already having a unique newcomer within Ultimate in the form of :ultpiranha: and :ultincineroar: respectively. Meanwhile, only Chrom as an echo appeared for Ultimate before Byleth, and then Byleth was immediately considered divisive upon reveal. From this perspective, I could argue that there is a stronger apathy toward Fire Emblem than the series listed above, and it's not because of overrepresentation.
People didn't exactly respond positively to either of those characters. I'll give you the Mario side but generally most people I see are against another Pokemon rep as well, alot of people just seem to think its an inevitability after Byleth. As for why Byleth's reaction was so divisive in the first place, it's a mess of different factors all culminating together.

  • Came after 2 months of relatively toxic speculation. Nothing but talking about deconfirmations and leakers for 2 months straight, it wasn't fun for anyone.
  • Didn't get leaked beforehand. As much as I hate stuff getting leaked atleast it allowed the community to brace for impact. It's why the community didn't completely implode when Hero got in over Sora/Geno, because we had 6 months to sit on the idea that he was coming. Same thing with Incineroar, though the Grinch kinda threw any sense of reasonable expectations out the window for a lot of people. Meanwhile the community spends 2 months crossing the most popular names off a list only to get hit with Byleth
  • Was the last character in the Pass, and an entirely third party pass at that. Carries the idea that they originally planned to end the Ultimate smash game with THIS.
  • THIS ISN'T EVEN THE FIRST TIME THIS HAS HAPPENED. Somehow Nintendo decided doing an exact repeat of Corrin, who was easily the most generally disliked reveal up to this point, was a good idea, only this time there was no one else to bounce off of after they fell flat.
  • More than almost every other character, a Three Houses rep was something alot of people specifically did not want. All over the internet for the last year I've seen people asking "Hey, who do you guys NOT want in the Fighters Pass?" and a Three Houses rep was always among the most mentioned. Back when it was announced Nintendo was picking the characters I saw it being thrown on alot of different prediction lists because they thought Nintendo would pull another Corrin, but after Joker got revealed most of them went "Oh, good, they aren't doing stuff like that." If you wanted Byleth that's fine, but it's plainly obvious that this was something a good portion of the community flat out wanted to avoid.
  • Alot of the disdain for Fire Emblem in Smash stems from how awful Corrin's reveal actually was. I could do a whole post on that, but the main takeaway is that after spending a year complaining about "WAAAAAH TOO MANY ANIME SWORDSMANS", the community got slapped with someone from a game that wasn't even out yet, from a franchises that had already gotten a new character this game, plus 2 clones, and got revealed in a presentation supposed to be about the ballot, THE THING THAT WAS MEANT TO TELL THE SMASH TEAM WHO WE WANTED IN SMASH, Fire Emblem just got dragged into the whole mess. It's why the general reaction to Chrom was "Oh greeeeaaat, another Fire Emblem character with a swoooord", it had become a literal meme by that point.
 
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There are two things that I only care for Smash news in this Direct. One, if the first fighter is female, that's gonna save me for the rest of the pass since I got a single character represented. Otherwise, my advocacy is off to a bad start :crying:
 

snowgolem

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Okay so since it’s on topic. The main two arguments I see about FE are
-“Fire Emblem is over represented.”
-“Fire Emblem characters are all the same.”
For the first argument, Mario and Pokémon both have more. And it makes sense since Mario, Pokémon, and Fire Emblem are Nintendo’s biggest franchises. It makes perfect sense.
For the second argument, I can’t exactly disagree, but the people who hate on FE certainly do. Chrom is wanted and celebrated for being a clone, and when we get just one more Fire Emblem character (who is 10x more unique than Chrom) and everybody freaks out.
This community makes no sense.
 

NoOtherPersona

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Same.

I have no problems with Fire Emblem, and it's okay to argue about it but thing is, you all have been going back and forth with it so much it's tiring.
Honestly at this point is there really anything to talk about that is substantial it's a desert out here man we got know idea when anything is gonna happen except vague guess at best
 

snowgolem

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Same.

I have no problems with Fire Emblem, and it's okay to argue about it but thing is, you all have been going back and forth with it so much it's tiring.
You’re right. That last post was my only and final post on the matter. Let’s talk about something else.
Here’s a game.
You get your most wanted character as the first fighter, but every other fighter is another character from the same franchise. What does it look like?
 
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Honestly at this point is there really anything to talk about that is substantial it's a desert out here man we got know idea when anything is gonna happen except vague guess at best
There is some substantial stuff, but you can put a twist on it if ya want to.
 

N3ON

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Same.

I have no problems with Fire Emblem, and it's okay to argue about it but thing is, you all have been going back and forth with it so much it's tiring.
Literally the post you made before this one is talking about how much you want female characters.

If Fire Emblem is track one on this broken record, there's no doubt that's track two.
 

pinshadow

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No joke, this is one reason I'm hoping we're getting that Fighter 6 reveal sooner rather than later. At least we'll have something different and new to talk about instead of the same **** everyone here's been arguing about since Byleth's reveal.
More or less. It's November 2018 all over again, except it's twice as long, there's no Smash game coming out to actually talk about, there's also a general lack of any actual Nintendo news, or really video game news in general right now, and were somehow both more and less in the dark about DLC than we were then.
 
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SMAASH! Puppy

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People didn't exactly respond positively to either of those characters.
Yeah. Piranha Plant was super random and not everyone's game for things like that. As for Incineroar, I honestly feel like most Super Smash Bros. fans don't typically care for Pokémon, or at least, not the ones chosen. Jigglypuff is the black sheep of the original 12, Pichu was probably only received positively because "Everyone is Here!", and Squirtle and Ivysaur aren't met with hate only because the Pokémon Trainer's switching mechanic actually works well now. Also, I see a lot of people complain that the Pokémon don't really do anything that another character they want more can do. It's probably Greninja and Incineroar's fault since they're based off of fairly common tropes, and nobody really wanted Incineroar in the first place.
 

N3ON

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You gotta remember with Piranha Plant and Incineroar, the backlash wasn't really due to "ugh, not another Mario/Pokemon character". PP has been possibly the most out-of-left-field, wtf choice so far, and those are always divisive at best.

And Incineroar is a character a lot of people disliked simply due to the character. Remember that in the lead-up, he was certainly trailing behind the likes of Decidueye and Mimikyu. Plus, he came at the expense of the Grinch leak falling apart.
 

AceAttorney9000

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there's also a general lack of any actual Nintendo news
INB4 the inevitable "We just had Pokemon and Animal Crossing Directs" and "They'll show us when they're ready" comments...
  1. I've nothing against dedicated those series getting Directs, and those technically do count as "Nintendo news"... but those do absolutely nothing for anyone who isn't interested in those series or is just more interested in something else like potential Mario or Zelda titles. If Nintendo suddenly announced a dedicated Star Fox Direct for next week, and you were someone who had no interest in the Star Fox series, I doubt you'd be excited despite it counting as "Nintendo news".
  2. As far as general Directs, the last one was on September 4th, 2019... which means, up to now, Nintendo has had seven months to get their **** ready, which I believe is the longest stretch between general Directs so far. Honestly, if they're taking that long, either they're planning on having a gigantic 2-hour long Direct (packed full of brand new titles, exclusives, ports, updates on upcoming games like Metroid Prime 4 and Breath of the Wild 2, and what not) that'll set everyone up for the entirety of 2020, or the coronavirus going around recently has hit them much harder than we thought... or, worst case scenario, they just have absolutely nothing other than Animal Crossing: New Horizons and Xenoblade Chronicles: Definitive Edition, and this is gonna be a real **** year for Nintendo.
 
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