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Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

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P.Kat

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KH has plently of original stuff they can use. As for his keyblade, easy, dont use thr one with the mickey chain and use of of his many non disney connected KH Original keyblades
Yep just give Sora, Oathkeeper, Oblivion, Ultima, or you know Sakurai being Sakurai would take it upon himself to give Sora a custom Smash Ultimate Keyblade: Smash Ultima.
Oh yeah, since the topic is going on with Pokemons, and promotional reps, with the new release of PMD Rescue Team DX, do you think it would be possible one day for us to get a PMD rep/stage/music ? (Not forcefully all of them, at least one of the 3 is what I mean)

It would personally be my dream to get Gardevoir this way, since she's such a popular Mon in the Main Series (Which was shown again this year, since she landed 9th on the official Mon Popularity Poll), but she's also a main character in Rescue Team ! It would be really cool to get her this way, and get some representation for a whole new universe, instead of the often controversial "Gen 8 Rep" IMO
Ever since seeing Gardevoir Pokken Tournament, I've always wanted to see how Sakurai would make her play, maybe someday it'll happen.
 

Dinoman96

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Can someone please explain why Arle is hyped up so much? As far as I'm aware she's kind of a nobody, so an explanation as to why she's in the spotlight would be appreciated.
While there were a few people gunning for Arle beforehand, I do think Terry's announcement definitely helped amplify her support.

The way I see it, Arle is somewhat like Terry in that they're both relatively less known in the west, but are historically popular and notable characters in Japan. Puyo Puyo is a popular and long running franchise that was even going to have a theme park at some point.

Like I said, Terry's reveal definitely made the Smash community more open to "lesser" characters, because beforehand people were expecting the likes of Resident Evil and DOOM. It's kinda like how the demand for Crash went up when Banjo got in, both being western boomer cereal mascots from the late 90s.
 

Scoliosis Jones

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I don't know, maybe I'm not getting the sudden looping back to "Nintendo legacy".

Everytime a non-Nintendo character joins Smash we get some folks saying, "Ah yes, of course! We didn't predict that character, but they were obvious because of their clear Nintendo legacy!"

The first 3rd party we got was because of business relations, sure. Sakurai was close with Kojima, and we get Snake. However, Nintendo execs were actually unsure about adding Snake. He wasn't added because of Nintendo legacy.

Sonic wasn't added because of his "Nintendo legacy". He's ****ing Sonic the Hedgehog. Mega Man is largely Nintendo, but alongside Castlevania I'd say it has more to do with having that retro legacy that, obviously did take place on Nintendo consoles. Despite that though, both series have had a widespread affect on the industry as a whole. You don't have games like Shovel Knight, Celeste, or Hollow Knight without Mega Man and Castlevania.

Pac-Man is ****ing Pac-Man, has little if anything to do with Nintendo connection. Ryu is Ryu from Street Fighter.

Cloud is quite literally the Final Fantasy character most related to Sony, just like Joker and Snake are more seen related to Playstation. Final Fantasy is largely known as a top tier JRPG series. I would more believably go with the Nintendo-connection argument if the character were most "Nintendo"-like.

I would keep going, but it seems like folks wait for characters and then try to find ways to make it about Nintendo, when it just...doesn't seem to really be that way. There are connections everywhere, but after all...Sakurai is a "Student of gaming history", not just Nintendo. To make everything about how it relates back to Nintendo seems to sell things short.
 
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Proceleon

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Why this thread is so dismissive of characters they don’t know
I was literally asking to know the character because I didn't get why she was popular. I didn't get Terry either until Sakurai explain what the deal was with the Neo Geo. Not dismissive, just curious.
 

Sestetz

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I wonder if because of Ultimates massive success Sony will dip their feet back in the water and make another Playstation All Stars on the PS5. I'd play the hell out of that if it was actually a good game and got rid of some of the bad picks in the roster.

Also at this point not being Nintendo affiliated isn't the main thing, more being viewed as 'Iconic'
 
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P.Kat

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All five DLC characters have a Fire attack.

Joker's side-b
Hero's neutral-b plus sizz and sizzle
Banjo has firey grenades
Terry's power wave looks like fire
Byleth has the crest of flames, which powers his sword.

Honestly, screw punchy characters and sword fighters. There's too much fire in Smash.
I disagree for obviously, unbiased reason... yep.
 

Cosmic77

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Believe what ever you want. You want to ignore everything from Smash 64 to Ultimate in how Pokemon characters are decided then go right ahead. Believe that everything is totally possible and that they would chose whoever-the-crap Pokemon as the Gen 8 rep instead of one of the Starters. And while you at it how about you believe that they would represent a brand new series by putting in a side character in first instead of the main characters. Just set your expectation up super high and believe that their are no limits in Smash Bros, just don't be upset when reality comes into play.
To be fair, only 2 of the 10 Pokemon characters are starters who got in by their own merit. Squirtle, Ivysaur, and Charizard are only in because Sakurai wanted to find a way to rep the human protagonists.

The assumption that only the starters have a chance is something that came about just recently. Two in a row is the beginning of a pattern, but I wouldn't say it's unlikely to change either.
 

Zero Suit Violet

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Ever since seeing Gardevoir Pokken Tournament, I've always wanted to see how Sakurai would make her play, maybe someday it'll happen.
Hehe, Gardevoir is pretty much my Third Most Wanted, right below Midna and BDW, so of course, I would be happy, and Pokken Tournament only cemented that love for this character
It was a bit of an inspiration once I went and did a Gardevoir moveset for her, the main gimmick of Calm Mind was such a good idea after all ... Implementing it in Smash was a must !
 

Cutie Gwen

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I don't know, maybe I'm not getting the sudden looping back to "Nintendo legacy".

Everytime a non-Nintendo character joins Smash we get some folks saying, "Ah yes, of course! We didn't predict that character, but they were obvious because of their clear Nintendo legacy!"

The first 3rd party we got was because of business relations, sure. Sakurai was close with Kojima, and we get Snake. However, Nintendo execs were actually unsure about adding Snake. He wasn't added because of Nintendo legacy.

Sonic wasn't added because of his "Nintendo legacy". He's ****ing Sonic the Hedgehog. Mega Man is largely Nintendo, but alongside Castlevania I'd say it has more to do with having that retro legacy that, obviously did take place on Nintendo consoles. Despite that though, both series have had a widespread affect on the industry as a whole. You don't have games like Shovel Knight, Celeste, or Hollow Knight without Mega Man and Castlevania.

Pac-Man is ****ing Pac-Man, has little if anything to do with Nintendo connection. Ryu is Ryu from Street Fighter.

Cloud is quite literally the Final Fantasy character most related to Sony, just like Joker and Snake are more seen related to Playstation. Final Fantasy is largely known as a top tier JRPG series. I would more believably go with the Nintendo-connection argument if the character were most "Nintendo"-like.

I would keep going, but it seems like folks wait for characters and then try to find ways to make it about Nintendo, when it just...doesn't seem to really be that way. There are connections everywhere, but after all...Sakurai is a "Student of gaming history", not just Nintendo. To make everything about how it relates back to Nintendo seems to sell things short.
Sakurai: "I could not possibly give less of a **** about console wars, video games are cool"
Smart Nintendo fans: "Sorry 2B but you aren't Nintendo, come back when your costume appears in Sonic Forces, that'll boost your chances"
 
D

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I disagree for obviously, unbiased reason... yep.
Holy cow let's check off every character who uses fire in some way.

:ultbanjokazooie::ultbowser::ultbowserjr::ultfalcon::ultdiddy::ultduckhunt::ultfalco::ultfox::ulthero::ultike::ultincineroar::ultisabelle::ultjoker::ultkingdedede::ultkirby::ultlittlemac::ultlucario::ultlucas::ultluigi::ultmario::ultmegaman::ultmewtwo::ultbrawler::ultgunner::ultgnw::ultness::ultolimar::ultpalutena::ultpeach::ultpiranha::ultcharizard::ultridley::ultrob::ultrobin::ultroy::ultryu::ultken::ultsamus::ultdarksamus::ultsheik::ultsimon::ultrichter::ultsnake::ult_terry::ulttoonlink::ultvillager::ultwario::ultwiifittrainer::ultyounglink::ultzelda::ultzss::ultkrool::ultganondorf::ultbayonetta::ultcorrinf::ultdaisy:

Sakurai this is too much.
 
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PeridotGX

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Oh yeah, since the topic is going on with Pokemons, and promotional reps, with the new release of PMD Rescue Team DX, do you think it would be possible one day for us to get a PMD rep/stage/music ? (Not forcefully all of them, at least one of the 3 is what I mean)

It would personally be my dream to get Gardevoir this way, since she's such a popular Mon in the Main Series (Which was shown again this year, since she landed 9th on the official Mon Popularity Poll), but she's also a main character in Rescue Team ! It would be really cool to get her this way, and get some representation for a whole new universe, instead of the often controversial "Gen 8 Rep" IMO
I think it's very possible - Game Freak has more to gain by promoting the spin-offs than the main series, the former barely scrapes by and the latter sells so we'll that it doesn't need it. PMD might also count as a "new world", because there's literally no content from it in the game. If we don't get a spirit event this week or next, I'll fully expect a PMD rep.

I do disagree with you on who the character representing it should be. Grovyle is the main character of the most popular game in the series, which is what got Joker and Cloud playable over others from their series. This isn't to say Gardevoir is a bad pick, I think she'd be a fun character, but she doesn't scream Mystery Dungeon like Grovyle does.
 

Jerry98

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Oh yeah, since the topic is going on with Pokemons, and promotional reps, with the new release of PMD Rescue Team DX, do you think it would be possible one day for us to get a PMD rep/stage/music ? (Not forcefully all of them, at least one of the 3 is what I mean)

It would personally be my dream to get Gardevoir this way, since she's such a popular Mon in the Main Series (Which was shown again this year, since she landed 9th on the official Mon Popularity Poll), but she's also a main character in Rescue Team ! It would be really cool to get her this way, and get some representation for a whole new universe, instead of the often controversial "Gen 8 Rep" IMO
I would love Grovyle from Explorers and something like Temporal Tower as stage. He's actually one of my most wanted and he's more iconic than Gardevoir or Gengar from Rescue Team.
It'll probably end up with a gen 8 Pokémon in the FP, but I think that Mystery Dungeon needs some representation. It's a shame that no music from the series is in Smash. If Pokémon music is amazing, Pokémon Mystery Dungeon music is 5 times more amazing!
 

Guynamednelson

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Holy cow let's check off every character who uses fire in some way.

:ultbanjokazooie::ultbowser::ultbowserjr::ultbyleth::ultfalcon::ultdiddy::ultduckhunt::ultfalco::ultfox::ulthero::ultike::ultincineroar::ultisabelle::ultjoker::ultkingdedede::ultkirby::ultlittlemac::ultlucario::ultlucas::ultluigi::ultmario::ultmegaman::ultmewtwo::ultbrawler::ultgunner::ultgnw::ultness::ultolimar::ultpalutena::ultpeach::ultpiranha::ultpit::ultcharizard::ultridley::ultrob::ultrobin::ultroy::ultryu::ultken::ultsamus::ultdarksamus::ultsheik::ultsimon::ultrichter::ultsnake::ult_terry::ulttoonlink::ultvillager::ultwario::ultwiifittrainer::ultyounglink::ultzelda::ultzss:

Sakurai this is too much.
You people keep bandwagoning grass starters when we clearly need more water types to put out these fires smh.
 
D

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I'd check off Lucario and Mewtwo and add :ultkrool: because he uses a gun
Lucario and Mewtwo uses like psychic fire. Check out their attacks. They leave a firey effect.

You're right about K. Rool though.
 

Zero Suit Violet

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I think it's very possible - Game Freak has more to gain by promoting the spin-offs than the main series, the former barely scrapes by and the latter sells so we'll that it doesn't need it. PMD might also count as a "new world", because there's literally no content from it in the game. If we don't get a spirit event this week or next, I'll fully expect a PMD rep.

I do disagree with you on who the character representing it should be. Grovyle is the main character of the most popular game in the series, which is what got Joker and Cloud playable over others from their series. This isn't to say Gardevoir is a bad pick, I think she'd be a fun character, but she doesn't scream Mystery Dungeon like Grovyle does.
Mmmm, well, I would be fine with Grovyle, but I feel like Gardevoir is also a good pick on a few reasons

First, she's a main character in the Mystery Dungeon releasing just now, so as a promotional pick, it make a bit more sense than Grovyle, who don't exist in this game (Even if they get to it later)

Secondly, Grovyle is popular only in PMD, where Gardevoir is popular both in the Main Series, and in the Spin off, so she does a good ... Middle point if you get me, she would bridge the two franchise together, a popular Mon liked by the fans of the Main Series, that attract them to the Spin off where she is a Main Character in

But both could be good really hehe, and I'm not about to fight Grovyle, because I would actually enjoy him being in, I just like Gardevoir more, and I think she have a couple reasons to get in too !
 

Proceleon

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Well ... That's why I said you're not forced to have the PMD version of the character, to bring some PMD representation if you get me, for exemple in my exemple, you can get a perfectly normal Gardevoir with maybe alts referencing PMD, and her Final Smash being a teamup with Team Charm, but instead of bringing in a Gen 3 stage, she bring in a PMD Stage with PMD music, and a PMD Spirit Board with Exploration Team to fight on it ! That could work pretty well IMO !
Grovyle would do better as a character, since he's from one of the most popular games. Temporal Tower with Dialga's Fight to the Finish playing in the background though. That would be amazing.
 

Koopaul

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Pac-Man is ****ing Pac-Man, has little if anything to do with Nintendo connection.
Pac-Man and Namco have a strong relationship with Nintendo. I don't know why people keep saying this. But yeah, having ties with Nintendo means nothing. We're getting pretty much anyone. Well, anyone that Japan cares about. I think that's the biggest hurdle, a Western game that Japan doesn't like.
 

Zero Suit Violet

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Grovyle would do better as a character, since he's from one of the most popular games. Temporal Tower with Dialga's Fight to the Finish playing in the background though. That would be amazing.
Hehe, just responded to that, I would be fine with both, but Gardevoir for the win for me for the reasons I stated before~~
 

Sestetz

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Lucario and Mewtwo uses like psychic fire. Check out their attacks. They leave a firey effect.

You're right about K. Rool though.
:ultbayonetta: more guns and a move called afterburner kick
:ultganondorf: His up tilt is the volcano kick
:ultwolf: also has a gun lol
:ultcorrin: More fire effects
probably more I'm forgetting how do so many characters have fire god
 
D

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:ultbayonetta: more guns and a move called afterburner kick
:ultganondorf: His up tilt is the volcano kick
:ultwolf: also has a gun lol
:ultcorrin: More fire effects
probably more I'm forgetting how do so many characters have fire god
Wolf's gun looks more electric and I don't want to get into engineering discussions about heat, so we'll exclude him.

Where does Corrin use fire? My mind is drawing a blank?
 

Sestetz

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Wolf's gun looks more electric and I don't want to get into engineering discussions about heat, so we'll exclude him.

Where does Corrin use fire? My mind is drawing a blank?
The sword they have is always glowing like it's on fire, plus they have that big ball move which I think is water but could be fire I guess?
 
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D

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The sword they have is always glowing like it's on fire, plus they have that big ball move which I think is water but could be fire I guess?
The ball is water, but you're right on the sword. The thing that powers it is literally the Fire Emblem of Fates.
 
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pinshadow

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I don't know, maybe I'm not getting the sudden looping back to "Nintendo legacy".

Everytime a non-Nintendo character joins Smash we get some folks saying, "Ah yes, of course! We didn't predict that character, but they were obvious because of their clear Nintendo legacy!"

The first 3rd party we got was because of business relations, sure. Sakurai was close with Kojima, and we get Snake. However, Nintendo execs were actually unsure about adding Snake. He wasn't added because of Nintendo legacy.

Sonic wasn't added because of his "Nintendo legacy". He's ****ing Sonic the Hedgehog. Mega Man is largely Nintendo, but alongside Castlevania I'd say it has more to do with having that retro legacy that, obviously did take place on Nintendo consoles. Despite that though, both series have had a widespread affect on the industry as a whole. You don't have games like Shovel Knight, Celeste, or Hollow Knight without Mega Man and Castlevania.

Pac-Man is ****ing Pac-Man, has little if anything to do with Nintendo connection. Ryu is Ryu from Street Fighter.

Cloud is quite literally the Final Fantasy character most related to Sony, just like Joker and Snake are more seen related to Playstation. Final Fantasy is largely known as a top tier JRPG series. I would more believably go with the Nintendo-connection argument if the character were most "Nintendo"-like.

I would keep going, but it seems like folks wait for characters and then try to find ways to make it about Nintendo, when it just...doesn't seem to really be that way. There are connections everywhere, but after all...Sakurai is a "Student of gaming history", not just Nintendo. To make everything about how it relates back to Nintendo seems to sell things short.
When 2 out of the 5 picks for the first pass were blatant promotional picks for 2019 Switch games, one is a super heavy fan request from a company who seems interested in supporting the Switch more, one is from a company who has heavily supported the Switch since launch, and the last from a company who has heavily supported Nintendo even longer and even worked on a game with them, I think that shows what Nintendo's priorities are.
 

Dalek_Kolt

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All five DLC characters have a Fire attack.

Joker's side-b
Hero's neutral-b plus sizz and sizzle
Banjo has firey grenades
Terry's power wave looks like fire
Byleth has the crest of flames, which powers his sword.

Honestly, screw punchy characters and sword fighters. There's too much fire in Smash.
Isn't this the exact reason why Ivysaur got screwed in Brawl so they just removed Type effectiveness in its entirety in Ultimate?
 

Cutie Gwen

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When 2 out of the 5 picks for the first pass were blatant promotional picks for 2019 Switch games, one is a super heavy fan request from a company who seems interested in supporting the Switch more, one is from a company who has heavily supported the Switch since launch, and the last from a company who has heavily supported Nintendo even longer and even worked on a game with them, I think that shows what Nintendo's priorities are.
Wait who the hell was the first blatant promotional pick? Cause I only see Byleth
 

Dinoman96

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I dunno, there are over hundreds of IPs that are represented in Smash, and every single one of them has made an appearance on Nintendo hardware at some point, even if it's just a throwaway spinoff like Persona. I get the feeling if say, Cuphead was still Xbox/PC exclusive, we may of not seen spirits, music and a Mii Fighter outfit from it.

I'm not saying this rules out 2B, but you do have you admit that Nier would kind of stick out like a sore thumb in Smash because it'd be the first IP included with no history on a Nintendo console whatsoever.
 
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osby

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Wolf's gun looks more electric and I don't want to get into engineering discussions about heat, so we'll exclude him.

Where does Corrin use fire? My mind is drawing a blank?
To be fair, Joker also doesn't have any fire attacks unless you count the muzzle flash of his gun. His side special is a curse/darkness skill.
 

pinshadow

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Wait who the hell was the first blatant promotional pick? Cause I only see Byleth
Hero, duh. I like him being here but it's pretty obvious he's here because Nintendo wants to promote Dragon Quest as a franchise, they published XI and Builders 2, his page is the only one which directly links to a game, and they chose to represent him with XI. You can argue it was Square meddling, and while that's probably part of it Dragon Quest was still Nintendo's idea according to Sakurai, they just pitched it to Square.
 
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D

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To be fair, Joker also doesn't have any fire attacks unless you count the muzzle flash of his gun. His side special is a curse/darkness skill.
But his side special looks like fire, producing a traditional fiery effect if he hits an opponent. But also yes, he uses guns with traditional bullets--so he counts
 

osby

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But his side special looks like fire, producing a traditional fiery effect if he hits an opponent. But also yes, he uses guns with traditional bullets--so he counts
Joker can't get a break. First "knives are just short swords" and now this.

jk
 
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Zero Suit Violet

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I would agree if Gardevoir weren't a Pokeball.
.. To be honest, does Pokeball even MEAN anything since there are Thousands of them anyway ? Especially when we're talking about representing a Spin Off where Pokeballs doesn't even exist ?

Also while we're on the topic ... Who the hell put Reflect on a Gardevoir ?! She's a Glass Canon ! It's like the worse possible move you can give her ! What the heck Smash !
 

Sestetz

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What are some characters you don't want in Smash that other people fiercly do, and some that you want that others would disagree or shoot down? Unpopular opinions time
 

Cutie Gwen

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Hero, duh. I like him being here but it's pretty obvious he's here because Nintendo wants to promote Dragon Quest as a franchise, they're published XI, his page is the only one which directly links to a game, and they chose to represent him with XI. You can argue it was Square meddling, and while that's probably part of it Dragon Quest was still Nintendo's idea according to Sakurai, they just pitched it to Square.
Idk man Dragon Quest had a **** ton of demand from Japan for god knows how long, is the ultimate granddaddy of JRPGs and was a major influence on games like Zelda, had a Halo 3 tier launch, had Smash include the Western fanfav and Boomer fanfav, had the alt colour for the Luminary be a reference to 8 instead of 11, all that and more makes it impossible for me to consider Hero a shill pick of a port
 

Guynamednelson

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Who the hell put Reflect on a Gardevoir ?! She's a Glass Canon ! It's like the worse possible move you can give her ! What the heck Smash !
The same person who makes Isaac not use his combat abilities or Oshawott not use his Scalchop.
 

pinshadow

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Idk man Dragon Quest had a **** ton of demand from Japan for god knows how long, is the ultimate granddaddy of JRPGs and was a major influence on games like Zelda, had a Halo 3 tier launch, had Smash include the Western fanfav and Boomer fanfav, had the alt colour for the Luminary be a reference to 8 instead of 11, all that and more makes it impossible for me to consider Hero a shill pick of a port
I feel like we are correlating shill pick=bad here, I have no problem with Hero being here even as one. Dragon Quest deserves to be in Smash, but that doesn't change the fact that Nintendo had waaaay more to gain having him here than anyone else in the pass aside from Byleth, I mean they gave 5 minutes to Dragon Quest in the last February direct, they literally aired the trailer for DQXI after Hero's reveal at E3, they want to promote the franchise. As for the alt's, that was more Sakurai's decisions than anything else, again all Nintendo really does it pitch the characters and nothing else. It's because of him that we got the other representation in the first place.
 
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D

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What are some characters you don't want in Smash that other people fiercly do, and some that you want that others would disagree or shoot down? Unpopular opinions time
I know Geno is widely divisive around here, but I'd think he'd be cool.

I also humored Byleth before his reveal even though he was another Fire Emblem character with a sword.

Now one series I'm against, however, is a Zelda rep. None of the characters grab out at me other than Ganondorf and I personally don't like most of the games outside of BOTW.
 
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