Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[Pinguino21v]

I think it’s overall interesting that some parts of the Smash fanbase do dismiss characters they don’t know. That’s arguably natural when one goes to a forum to speak about their most wanted.

However, it kinda goes beyond that. Some fans shoot down much larger or well known picks, or understate the impact their games have had, especially if they aren’t on Nintendo consoles. Or, worst of all, they’re from a game *gasp* someone hasn’t played.

I clearly agree with that statement.

Genuine question, why exactly do people in this thread seem to think 2B is likely? I've seen a decent amount of people wanting her and that's cool and all but I'm just a little confused why some people seem to think she's really likely for Pass 2.

She is getting pushed in cross-over everywhere. And she's cool-looking.

Bruh I know MGS is known for lengthy cutscenes but even MGS4 has gameplay, the **** you mean not-really-a-game? Nintendo fams are wild

Bruh, go read my sentence again.

 

[osby]

Bruh I know MGS is known for lengthy cutscenes but even MGS4 has gameplay, the **** you mean not-really-a-game? Nintendo fams are wild

I think they were talking about Wii Fit (which is absolutely a video game, btw).

 

[Sestetz]

I think it’s overall interesting that some parts of the Smash fanbase do dismiss characters they don’t know. That’s arguably natural when one goes to a forum to speak about their most wanted.

However, it kinda goes beyond that. Some fans shoot down much larger or well known picks, or understate the impact their games have had, especially if they aren’t on Nintendo consoles. Or, worst of all, they’re from a game *gasp* someone hasn’t played.

Though, it seems that’s mostly a difference when many folks want smaller, lesser known picks. Smash has done a good job leveling that out, but it gets more questionable when many of those lesser known wants are potentially out in NPC positions. It’s an unfortunate reality, but that also doesn’t mean the more universally known or popular characters are definitely in or something.

Ok that’s like TWO JONESPOSTS TODAY.

I think it's good when people are proven wrong. The large majority of the smash fanbase are casual gamers, and Smash is pretty much an advertising machine when it comes to injecting things they don't know and making them like it. Dragon Quest definitely got a ton of attention. Fire Emblem and Kid Icarus are the big examples of the power its had though imo. So hopefully they keep representing series people didn't know they wanted

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Oh thank god, I'm the dumbass, that was a whole level of stupidity I didn't expect to see otherwise

 

[Dalek_Kolt]

Genuine question, why exactly do people in this thread seem to think 2B is likely? I've seen a decent amount of people wanting her and that's cool and all but I'm just a little confused why some people seem to think she's really likely for Pass 2.

She's in a relatively similar position to Joker in that her game is well-beloved, she's popped up in other games to promote her own, etc.
I'd rather see Emil first, but I'm weird like that.

 

[Deleted member]

If it requires interaction to progress and has a virtual format, it is a videogame.

And as such Wii Fit is quite indeed a videogame.

A fitness videogame, but one nonetheless.

 

[Zero Suit Violet]

I think it’s overall interesting that some parts of the Smash fanbase do dismiss characters they don’t know. That’s arguably natural when one goes to a forum to speak about their most wanted.

However, it kinda goes beyond that. Some fans shoot down much larger or well known picks, or understate the impact their games have had, especially if they aren’t on Nintendo consoles. Or, worst of all, they’re from a game *gasp* someone hasn’t played.

Though, it seems that’s mostly a difference when many folks want smaller, lesser known picks. Smash has done a good job leveling that out, but it gets more questionable when many of those lesser known wants are potentially out in NPC positions. It’s an unfortunate reality, but that also doesn’t mean the more universally known or popular characters are definitely in or something.

Ok that’s like TWO JONESPOSTS TODAY.

And then we have the opposite side of this problem, with people that COMPLETLY dismiss any pick as "anti-hype" and "boring" at the moment they have a "Nintendo" Logo on it, it's ... Really tiring sometimes

But hey, every part of the fanbase have bad apples, you just gotta find the right persons to talk too I guess haha

 

[P.Kat]

Some of these are already on my signature but those on mobile probably can't see that

Depending on the phone, people can just turn on auto-rotate, and turn the phone sideways to see one's signature.

 

[Deleted member]

And then we have the opposite side of this problem, with people that COMPLETLY dismiss any pick as "anti-hype" and "boring" at the moment they have a "Nintendo" Logo on it, it's ... Really tiring sometimes

But hey, every part of the fanbase have bad apples, you just gotta find the right persons to talk too I guess haha

Yeah, those people become more apparent when you support picks such as Pauline.

I swear to god that the Mario fandom or at least the Smash fandom is filled with too many people who haven’t touched a NDS based on how they think Pauline only existed in the Arcades and Odyssey while fully ignoring her legacy in the Mario vs DK series.

 

[Guynamednelson]

And then we have the opposite side of this problem, with people that COMPLETLY dismiss any pick as "anti-hype" and "boring" at the moment they have a "Nintendo" Logo on it, it's ... Really tiring sometimes

But hey, every part of the fanbase have bad apples, you just gotta find the right persons to talk too I guess haha

Hype just comes in all flavors. Some might be hype for Banjo because they add a Microsoft copyright, others are just happy to see them with their Rare bros again.

I think that's just something we need to consider. Different people get hyped for different things.

 

[Garteam]

Genuine question, why exactly do people in this thread seem to think 2B is likely? I've seen a decent amount of people wanting her and that's cool and all but I'm just a little confused why some people seem to think she's really likely for Pass 2.

I don't think 2B's particularly likely, but the argument I've mostly seen for her is she'd be Joker 2.0. She's from a relatively recent entry in a long running series that received unprecedented success internationally for the brand. She's appeared in a lot of crossover material and Sakurai is a fan of Drakengard.

Personally, I don't think this is a great argument as Drakengard doesn't have nearly the same legacy that Persona does, but this is generally what I see whenever 2B is brought up.

 

[Sestetz]

Platinum may not get another rep in Smash honestly, but if there was one it would either be 2B or Wonder Red (Sorry Raiden). 2B has actually appeared in other series already, and she is pretty unique! But Nintendo kinda already dismissed Astral Chain and threw them a bone with the spirts, but that was the game they'd specifically developed for Nintendo. Tbh I'm not sure Bayonetta would of gotten in with Smash Wii U if they had like any other picks from the Wii U era to go with.

 

[Zero Suit Violet]

Hype just comes in all flavors. Some might be hype for Banjo because they add a Microsoft copyright, others are just happy to see them with their Rare bros again.

I think that's just something we need to consider. Different people get hyped for different things.

That's very true, and I respect that, some people like 3rd party, some other prefer 1st parties, but there are some people out there ... That act like it's a "wrong" thing to like Nintendo characters, hell, I even got insulted once and called "Selfish", simply because I said I would love characters like BWD, and wouldn't pay for someone like Master Chief, it's just ... Disheartening to see how so many people spit on the company that offer them this game they are talking about, like they aren't capable of making anything worth hyping about, which is kinda funny when you think about it haha

 

[DMTN]

I don't see how someone can be confident in any character right now. We know nothing and the Fighters Pass characters have been hella unpredictable so far.

 

[Professor Pumpkaboo]

Ita nice to see Japan wants sora in smash as much As I want to

 

[Sestetz]

if Sora was in smash what would they do about all the Disney content, like- Would it just be the original part of the series in the stage or am I gonna see Mickey Mouse and scream

 

[Cutie Gwen]

if Sora was in smash what would they do about all the Disney content, like- Would it just be the original part of the series in the stage or am I gonna see Mickey Mouse and scream

Disney was close to banning Fallen Order from saying Jedi so they'd likely just use the original content

 

[Idon]

Personally, I don't think this is a great argument as Drakengard doesn't have nearly the same legacy that Persona does, but this is generally what I see whenever 2B is brought up.

Implying Joker was chosen because of his legacy and not just because Sakurai really liked his game. If he doesn't wheel out references of the older games in the series like he does for Terry and Hero, it's safe to say Sakurai would've chosen Joker regardless.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Implying Joker was chosen because of his legacy and not just because Sakurai really liked his game. If he doesn't wheel out references of the older games in the series like he does for Terry and Hero, it's safe to say Sakurai would've chosen Joker regardless.

Tbf we DID get P3 and P4 content, though it was clearly not the main draw

 

[Professor Pumpkaboo]

if Sora was in smash what would they do about all the Disney content, like- Would it just be the original part of the series in the stage or am I gonna see Mickey Mouse and scream

KH has plently of original stuff they can use. As for his keyblade, easy, dont use thr one with the mickey chain and use of of his many non disney connected KH Original keyblades

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

Joker was added as a crossover with Persona 5, and there’s no content at all tied to Shin Megami Tensei, the series that some folks claim makes him have this “Nintendo connection”. Seems like that argument is made to tie everything to Nintendo when that isn’t necessarily the case.

If Nintendo is the one making picks for DLC, which are made essentially for additional money from their mascot fighter, it’s less about legacy (with every pick, some are different like Banjo, though I think that’s easily tied in with Microsoft collars) and more about striking while the iron is hot with a mainstream pick. I find it hard to believe that Nintendo is considering history and not opting with a different pick simply because it has “no history”.

2B is a mainstream icon in the same vein that Joker is, that’s true. NieR Automata, however, is a game that stands as one of the best of the generation, alongside other greats like The Witcher 3, Persona 5, Dragon Quest XIS, and a handful of others. She has crossed over with plenty of other games including Soul Calibur, which in itself shows what she’s capable of

It also works as a way to develop continued working relationships with cooperating 3rd party developers and publishers.

Not to mention she’s just...different. Uses two types of swords, has a projectile with her pod (which can also change the type of attacks it uses), and that’s just tip of the iceberg with what she can do. There’s way more to her than just “ass robot”.

Lastly, this is a side note, but if you haven’t listened to the soundtrack I would highly recommend it. It’s great!

I see her as a pick that Nintendo could totally go for.

 

[Idon]

Tbf we DID get P3 and P4 content, though it was clearly not the main draw

If we're going to count P3/4 stage skins and songs as Persona's "legacy" content then Drakengard predates P3 in years then.

 

[Deleted member]

Tbf we DID get P3 and P4 content, though it was clearly not the main draw

That's because those are the only Persona games people remember. Persona does have a legacy, but it was very 21st century.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

If we're going to count P3/4 stage skins and songs as Persona's "legacy" content then Drakengard predates P3 in years then.

Persona 3 is the first game in the series though
*laugh track*

 

[pinshadow]

Implying Joker was chosen because of his legacy and not just because Sakurai really liked his game. If he doesn't wheel out references of the older games in the series like he does for Terry and Hero, it's safe to say Sakurai would've chosen Joker regardless.

I think it has more to do with Joker just being the most recent protagonist than anything else. TBH I still wholeheartedly believe the only reason Joker is here is because of Nintendo's relationship with Atlus, SMT V was one of the first games announced for Switch, they worked on Tokyo Mirage Sessions together, they have a good relationship. He just makes the most sense as a rep for them, he's from their most recent big release and Persona 5 is their best selling game period as a company. Nintendo wouldn't have put in Joker if they didn't have the good relationship with Atlus, it just makes no sense otherwise.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Ita nice to see Japan wants sora in smash as much As I want to

Wasn't it known anyways Kingdom Hearts is popular worldwide?

 

[Professor Pumpkaboo]

Wasn't it known anyways Kingdom Hearts is popular worldwide?

I honestly didnt think KH was popular worldwide, just JP and NA so that new to me pff

 

[wynn728]

But that doesn’t really change anything does it? Sakurai or Nintendo can still add whoever they want. That’s the reality and not some made up rule/logic that so called fans want to apply.

If Sakurai wanted to add f****** Mareanie he could because he’s not going to look at your logic and force himself to comply to it when he is the one who sets the foundations in the first place. The reality is Sakurai can add whoever he wants, even if someone had a gun to his head forcing him to add a certain character, nothing says he has to comply

Believe what ever you want. You want to ignore everything from Smash 64 to Ultimate in how Pokemon characters are decided then go right ahead. Believe that everything is totally possible and that they would chose whoever-the-crap Pokemon as the Gen 8 rep instead of one of the Starters. And while you at it how about you believe that they would represent a brand new series by putting in a side character in first instead of the main characters. Just set your expectation up super high and believe that their are no limits in Smash Bros, just don't be upset when reality comes into play.

 

[Dalek_Kolt]

Joker was added as a crossover with Persona 5, and there’s no content at all tied to Shin Megami Tensei, the series that some folks claim makes him have this “Nintendo connection”. Seems like that argument is made to tie everything to Nintendo when that isn’t necessarily the case.

I'm reminded of someone on Reddit, completely without irony, saying that Cloud would have never have been put in Smash if he didn't cameo in the GBA Kingdom Hearts game.

Yes, Sakurai was REALLY thinking about the spinoff-but-not-really trading card game as the lynchpin in bringing Cloud in, not the sheer influence FF7 has had in shaping the video game landscape. Though if that were really true, at least Sora has an "in" in getting into Smash.

 

[Idon]

I'm so beyond sick and tired of people saying Joker is some sort of legacy pick when Sakurai goes out of his way to not only distinguish the difference between SMT:If and Persona, but to then outright state that the Persona series he personaly likes (and correctly assumes most other people do as well) begins at 3.


Such a reverence for retro legacy, and not totally just a lead in to talk about the stuff he actually cares about.

 

[osby]

if Sora was in smash what would they do about all the Disney content, like- Would it just be the original part of the series in the stage or am I gonna see Mickey Mouse and scream

What did they do with all Megami Tensei content in Persona 5?

Persona 3 is the first game in the series though
*laugh track*

I mean, the first three games are also great but people rarely bring them up nowadays when they're not complaining about newer entries.

 

[Zero Suit Violet]

Oh yeah, since the topic is going on with Pokemons, and promotional reps, with the new release of PMD Rescue Team DX, do you think it would be possible one day for us to get a PMD rep/stage/music ? (Not forcefully all of them, at least one of the 3 is what I mean)

It would personally be my dream to get Gardevoir this way, since she's such a popular Mon in the Main Series (Which was shown again this year, since she landed 9th on the official Mon Popularity Poll), but she's also a main character in Rescue Team ! It would be really cool to get her this way, and get some representation for a whole new universe, instead of the often controversial "Gen 8 Rep" IMO

 

[Al-kīmiyā']

I'd rather have Shiren the Wanderer.

 

[Deleted member]

Oh yeah, since the topic is going on with Pokemons, and promotional reps, with the new release of PMD Rescue Team DX, do you think it would be possible one day for us to get a PMD rep/stage/music ? (Not forcefully all of them, at least one of the 3 is what I mean)

It would personally be my dream to get Gardevoir this way, since she's such a popular Mon in the Main Series (Which was shown again this year, since she landed 9th on the official Mon Popularity Poll), but she's also a main character in Rescue Team ! It would be really cool to get her this way, and get some representation for a whole new universe, instead of the often controversial "Gen 8 Rep" IMO

Thinking about it, I'm surprised we haven't gotten spirits and music from Pokemon spinoffs. They're still a big part of the franchise.

 

[Sestetz]

Oh yeah, since the topic is going on with Pokemons, and promotional reps, with the new release of PMD Rescue Team DX, do you think it would be possible one day for us to get a PMD rep/stage/music ? (Not forcefully all of them, at least one of the 3 is what I mean)

It would personally be my dream to get Gardevoir this way, since she's such a popular Mon in the Main Series (Which was shown again this year, since she landed 9th on the official Mon Popularity Poll), but she's also a main character in Rescue Team ! It would be really cool to get her this way, and get some representation for a whole new universe, instead of the often controversial "Gen 8 Rep" IMO

Getting a mystery dungeon rep from Pokemon is pretty impossible in my mind, mostly because they're just normal Pokemon but with scarves. The best I can see of it getting repped is one of the skins being a nod to it. I mostly think this because Smash mostly reps mainline Pokemon, and they don't really even care enough to have any of the trainers besides Red and Leaf- Not even in the spirits.

If they did go with a pick though, I'd love Grovyle from Explorers of Sky. He was pretty big in the plot of that game, and no gen 3 mons are playable in the cast so far.

 

[Zero Suit Violet]

Getting a mystery dungeon rep from Pokemon is pretty impossible in my mind, mostly because they're just normal Pokemon but with scarves. The best I can see of it getting repped is one of the skins being a nod to it. I mostly think this because Smash mostly reps mainline Pokemon, and they don't really even care enough to have any of the trainers besides Red and Leaf- Not even in the spirits.

If they did go with a pick though, I'd love Grovyle from Explorers of Sky. He was pretty big in the plot of that game, and no gen 3 mons are playable in the cast so far.

Well ... That's why I said you're not forced to have the PMD version of the character, to bring some PMD representation if you get me, for exemple in my exemple, you can get a perfectly normal Gardevoir with maybe alts referencing PMD, and her Final Smash being a teamup with Team Charm, but instead of bringing in a Gen 3 stage, she bring in a PMD Stage with PMD music, and a PMD Spirit Board with Exploration Team to fight on it ! That could work pretty well IMO !

 

[Professor Pumpkaboo]

What did they do with all Megami Tensei content in Persona 5?

Idk, what did they do?

 

[Sestetz]

Idk, what did they do?

They didn't show off anybody besides just Jack Frost/Arsene, lol. Maybe they'll save it for a Shin Megami Tensei rep

 

[pinshadow]

I'm so beyond sick and tired of people saying Joker is some sort of legacy pick when Sakurai goes out of his way to distinguish the difference between SMT:If and Persona, but to then outright state that the Persona series he personaly likes (and correctly assumes most other people do as well) begins at 3.
View attachment 264501
View attachment 264502
View attachment 264503

I mean it's less about Joker being a legacy pick and more about Joker being an "exception" (which he kinda isn't anyway) rather than a precedent in regards to appearances on Nintendo platforms, especially when the 4 characters after him still fit that mold. You actually look at Nintendo's choices and you have

• Hero : Nintendo has published/pushed titles from the franchise in the past and recently published Builders 2 and DQXI S, and is pushing the franchise pretty hard on the platform
• Banjo : Here out of fan demand, but they've already said negotiations really only happened because Minecraft on Nintendo Consoles opened the door to them having serious discussions on the Switch and Banjo in Smash.
• Terry : SNK has supported the Switch from launch, chucking a metric ton of their old fighters and arcade games on the Eshop. SNK Heroines was announced during a direct, Samurai Showdown is on Switch now, and I'd probably bet on KOF XV coming as well to switch this year. Aside from Arc System Works and I guess Warner Bros with MK11 they're the only FGC company to really make that effort to get their titles on the platform, I mean Capcom has really only seemed interested in collections (More to do with SFV being PS4 console exclusive and Infinite bombing) and Namco hasn't really made an effort to get Tekken and Soul Calibur on switch at all. (Also worth noting that Arc System Works got Kunio spirits in Smash, meaning theres no way they haven't talked about a character, just saying)
• Byleth : Here because Nintendo wanted a first-party promotional character in the Pass

Like I've already said, Atlus has a great relationship with Nintendo. They were huge supporters of the 3DS even after the release of the Switch, they worked on Tokyo Mirage Sessions together (and incase Bayonetta and Hero haven't taught you anything yet, getting your game published by Nintendo or outright working with Nintendo properties is pretty good in regards to Smash), and SMT V was among the first games announced for Switch. Christ, Persona still has the 3DS spinoffs and Strikers out on Switch anyway. Can you honestly tell me that if Atlus and Nintendo didn't have this relationship that Nintendo would make it a priority to get a character from a game not on Switch at all?

 

[Deleted member]

Baboom loses if it's Cinderace. We can't let this happen.

All five DLC characters have a Fire attack.

Joker's side-b
Hero's neutral-b plus sizz and sizzle
Banjo has firey grenades
Terry's power wave looks like fire
Byleth has the crest of flames, which powers his sword.

Honestly, screw punchy characters and sword fighters. There's too much fire in Smash.