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If Nintendo were to go back to any company for more characters I'd rather they pick a character from another franchise then re-appealing to fans who already got the representative of their game. Like despite liking Knuckles, if he ever got in, I'd be nothing but ambivalent, but if say some wacky left field pick like Kiryu or Arle Or someone from SMT was to get chosen, I'd be way more interested.
(Also please no more FF7. We've already gone through 2 and a half decades of fans talking about that game and ONLY that game and I would be sick if Sephy cemented that for the next decade as well. 2B and Crono and Neku are right there and we've yet to hit the bottom of the barrel for good SE franchises.)
If Nintendo were to go back to any company for more characters I'd rather they pick a character from another franchise then re-appealing to fans who already got the representative of their game. Like despite liking Knuckles, if he ever got in, I'd be nothing but ambivalent, but if say some wacky left field pick like Kiryu or Arle Or someone from SMT was to get chosen, I'd be way more interested.
(Also please no more FF7. We've already gone through 2 and a half decades of fans talking about that game and ONLY that game and I would be sick if Sephy cemented that for the next decade as well. 2B and Crono and Neku are right there and we've yet to hit the bottom of the barrel for good SE franchises.)
To me, getting in a character from a new franchise is actually beneficial to both companies as well. Nintendo will probably gain more money buying a new DLC pack, while the other would get a bigger cource of income for people who are willing to invest in the series thanks to Smash.
Existing franchise additions are way more divisive and limited in appeal, and they don't really gain much in exchange for that.
Plus it'd honestly feel like being attacked to see, say, Cloud AND Sephiroth being added in when you're a Tifa fan, or Joker and Kasumi when you're a Persona 3/4/general MegaTen fan.
Existing franchise additions are way more divisive and limited in appeal, and they don't really gain much in exchange for that.
Plus it'd honestly feel like being attacked to see, say, Cloud AND Sephiroth being added in when you're a Tifa fan, or Joker and Kasumi when you're a Persona 3/4/general MegaTen fan.
Yeah, I think that's kind of the problem right there.
It just opens Pandora's Box. The moment you add Chun-Li, everyone is going to begging for basically every additional Sonic, Street Fighter, Mega Man, etc character.
And yes, some people do that already, but actually doing it is just going to amplify it.
Maybe, but aside from possibly moveset potential which is completely up to Sakurai, I wouldn't say either of the characters you mentioned are the clear winners of iconicness and fan demand when put up against someone like Knuckles or Eggman. In terms of fan demand, I don't think it's much of a contest. I've been seeing requests for another Sonic character far more often than I have with any other third-party franchise in Smash.
I'm not saying we shouldn't get a SF or FF character. I just think there are more reasons to prioritize adding a Sonic character first before getting to those franchises.
Chun-Li is the first woman of fighting games and Sephiroth is quite possibly the second most well known villain in games after Bowser, bull****, there's some "Clear winner of iconic-ness." There's been about as much fan demand for them too as I see for even the existence of a second Sonic rep too. There's no clear cut winner here and you've still yet to substantiate the "More reasons to prioritize adding another Sonic fighter."
Hell, Sakurai basically already did add a second Street Fighter character before he even touched Sonic again.
Existing franchise additions are way more divisive and limited in appeal, and they don't really gain much in exchange for that.
Plus it'd honestly feel like being attacked to see, say, Cloud AND Sephiroth being added in when you're a Tifa fan, or Joker and Kasumi when you're a Persona 3/4/general MegaTen fan.
Can't say I agree with the idea of there being limited appeal. I'd say they're branching out and increasing appeal.
I've heard P5 fans jumping on the smash train when they heard Joker was announced, even DQ fans.
The represented games get marketed to the existing smash fanbase, and the fans of the represented games try smash because their favorite got in.
It works both ways. Everybody wins.
Your personal preference not getting chosen should not be seen as a personal attack. That's kinda taking it too far imo. It's more there's another character that fits the bill better. Nothing more, nothing less.
Yeah, I think that's kind of the problem right there.
It just opens Pandora's Box. The moment you add Chun-Li, everyone is going to begging for basically every additional Sonic, Street Fighter, Mega Man, etc character.
And yes, some people do that already, but actually doing it is just going to amplify it.
I feel like you read a different post than what I read. How does adding Kasumi from Persona 5 increase appeal, when Joker from Persona 5 is already in? How many more people do you get from adding a Persona 4 protagonist compared to adding a Yakuza character?
I would like a classic FF character, like Black/White mage or Chocobo or something... thoughI doubt it will happen.
Vivi from FF9 would work as black mage too probably.
I wouldn't mind more Sonic as well... the character I think would fit Smash the most IMO are Knuclkes and Amy, Knuckles is already an assist so I would say Amy... (I'm not even a fan of her, but gameplay wise she has potential in a fighting game, due to her acrobatic way of fighting with the hammer).
I know that Eggman and Tails are more important anyway, but I fear Eggman would be bigger Bowser Jr and Tails would get a random moveset with gimmicks he never used in the source games because it's the same thing that happend in Sonic Battle already (or a Sonic semiclone with Piranha Plant's up B).
I feel like you read a different post than what I read. How does adding Kasumi from Persona 5 increase appeal, when Joker from Persona 5 is already in? How many more people do you get from adding a Persona 4 protagonist compared to adding a Yakuza character?
In terms of 2nd 3rd Party reps, here's what would excite me personally from most to least:
Mega Man
Dragon Quest
Sonic
Street Fighter
King of Fighters/Fatal Fury
Castlevania
Final Fantasy
Persona
Unorthodox, I know, but I have weird taste. That being said, I don't think we're going to see any double dipping into non-Nintendo franchise outside of echoes in Ultimate. This is more a hunch than anything, but I think characters like X, Tails, and Chun-Li stand a good chance of being in the Smash game after Ultimate.
Existing franchise additions are way more divisive and limited in appeal, and they don't really gain much in exchange for that.
Plus it'd honestly feel like being attacked to see, say, Cloud AND Sephiroth being added in when you're a Tifa fan, or Joker and Kasumi when you're a Persona 3/4/general MegaTen fan.
Byleth is the most controversial DLC character so far, yet the majority of people like their inclusion. Seeing as Fire Emblem is the most divisive existing series they could've added a new character for, and the same "attack" you're describing happened with Byleth as well (why not a house leader?), I'd say new characters for other existing series will be better received, especially Final Fantasy and Street Fighter.
As far as a second Sonic rep goes I’d love Robotnik/Eggman to join the fight. He’s that perfect brand of maniacal mustache-twirling over-the-top villain I adore so very much and is the highlight of whatever mainline game or animated series he’s in (for me at least). He’s got a ton of unique and interesting moveset potential too, with his legion of Badniks and many of his genius inventions setting himself apart from the competition.
If I could pick a second rep from any 3rd party series, it’d probably be a hard tie between him, Grunty and Geese Howard.
If they're gonna add characters from 3rd party franchises already represented the best way to do it it's adding them for base game.
About Sephiroth, he would be sick and I like him, but as some said I'd prefer different franchises, or at least, different entries. You can add another Final Fantasy VII character, but there's a lot of popular and good FF games. Cecil, Terra, Zidane or Tidus would be my next picks for a new protagonist. All of them could bring new and cool things moveset wise.
For villains, while Sephiroth is obviously great, I'd prefer Kefka, in my opinion the best villain in the series and a bit underrated.
In any case, I think villains like Sephiroth or Eggman should be in the game as bosses or assist trophies. I don't think anyone can deny that they wouldn't 'deserve' to have something more than a spirit. Poor Sephiroth doesn't even have one lol
Yeah, I think that's kind of the problem right there.
It just opens Pandora's Box. The moment you add Chun-Li, everyone is going to begging for basically every additional Sonic, Street Fighter, Mega Man, etc character.
And yes, some people do that already, but actually doing it is just going to amplify it.
There's no shortage of great picks you could make from series already in Smash.
Still, I definitely prefer new series and characters.
I grew up on the Gamecube with Sonic Adventure 2, Adventure DX, Heroes, Riders(there's Sonic 2 on Genesis but...that game made me rage quit)...I see clear value in adding a character like Chun-Li, or Final Fantasy. However, I think there's just something especially cool about the series the character comes from debuting in the game.
It also helps if the game comes with a different cast, and therefore different music. While Sonic has a variety of songs from across the series, Tails just brings...more Sonic music. Obviously it's new, but even adding a Final Fantasy character from a game that isn't FF7 brings music from games we have nothing from in Smash.
To be honest, I don't know if that was explained well. But basically, Dragon Quest could add the main character from Dragon Quest 9, but why do that when we could get an entirely new crossover with NieR Automata or the World Ends With You? Neither of those series are in Smash whatsoever. It's the same perspective I have with Capcom...Like, you have so many quality series you can choose from, how could you not?
Not saying a 2nd unique 3rd party would be inherently bad. As I said, there are some great picks you could make. I just feel there's more to gain from adding in something that's entirely new.
I feel like you read a different post than what I read. How does adding Kasumi from Persona 5 increase appeal, when Joker from Persona 5 is already in? How many more people do you get from adding a Persona 4 protagonist compared to adding a Yakuza character?
It's weird That Yu is a character I can't see making it into Smash yet I can also easily see him making it in.
I know that doesn't really make sense but Persona 4 is such a popular game that Atlus is still putting the characters in stuff today, and Byleth shows that we can have spirit boards for series that are already in so I can easily see a Persona 4 spirit board somewhere down the line.
The issue comes from the fact that the current Persona content is SO geared towards P5 in the victory music, aesthetics and even the universe logo that I don't see any of this fitting Yu.
Chun-Li is the first woman of fighting games and Sephiroth is quite possibly the second most well known villain in games after Bowser, bull****, there's some "Clear winner of iconic-ness." There's been about as much fan demand for them too as I see for even the existence of a second Sonic rep too. There's no clear cut winner here and you've still yet to substantiate the "More reasons to prioritize adding another Sonic fighter."
Hell, Sakurai basically already did add a second Street Fighter character before he even touched Sonic again.
Chun-Li being the first playable fighting game character is an impressive accomplishment, but that doesn't make her iconic. Samus Aran is the first playable female character period, and there's still quite a few people who don't know who she is.
Strongly disagree with Sephiroth being the second most well-known video game villain. I could go to my local supermarket, show several people a picture of Sephiroth, and ask them if they recognize him. I guarantee you a majority of them wouldn't have a clue who he is, let alone which franchise he comes from. Actually, there's quite a few villains who I think would do better than him, and yes, Eggman is one of them.
Lastly, I'm sorry, but I've never seen this high demand for either of those characters like you're claiming. I might've seen them frequently mentioned in places like Smashboards, but conversations between casual fans usually bring up a Sonic character when they discuss what franchises they'd like to see get a second character.
Regardless, all of this stems from my personal opinion and a post that took roughly 20 seconds to make. I think you're taking this a little too seriously.
Every potential character could have a bunch of different Spirits for their board. But, can they have a legend Spirit? So far, the legends we have are...
A collection of characters. Ren and Hero brought the Phantom Thieves and Hero's Comrades.
The main antagonist of that Challenger Pack's game. Banjo and Terry had Gruntilda and Geese Howard.
Sothis, who is a deity and a very important figure to the lore of 3H, as well as where Divine Pulse comes from. From Byleth's board.
The Zacian and Zamazenta spirits are the only DLC Primary Legends so far, but I'm not going to assume that's a hard and fast rule. But if it is, then a Legend Support Spirit must come with a new ability. So, if the character you wanted got a legend Spirit, who would it be?
Arle, for instance. Regardless of the identity of the Legend Spirit, as a Support they would have the ability "KO Boost", which makes you stronger after every KO.
Carbuncle, Arle's most iconic companion, and a Puyo powerhouse that is feared by all. Could possibly fit as a Novice as well, but him being a Legend references his status as a superboss and masterclass AI.
Doppelganger Arle, or more specifically Pierrot, the popular final boss of Puyo Puyo 4. If the normal Doppel is one of Arle's alternate costumes, then her disguise as Pierrot could fit here. Pierrot could, however, also be a Novice that evolves into Doppel, a Legend.
Puyo Heroines, consisting of Arle, Amitie, Ringo and Ally. The main four characters. I don't usually think of this as a good option, but if all else fails, then this'd work.
Those seem like the leading two candidates for legends. I have other characters who could fit that mold, but I feel like these two have the strongest claim. Satan could be here, but I think an Ace that evolves into a Legend spirit would fit better, or even just a normal Ace spirit fits.
You don't even need to think of what they'd do. As long as you can think of someone or something to fill the Legend Spirit slot, you're golden. For Crash, I'm thinking Cortex is too obvious of a candidate. Instead, it'd be Aku Aku, who'd grant Invincibility Duration Up. For Lloyd, easily Yggdrasil. Frisk, I'm thinking the Annoying Dog as a Joke Spirit (ability: Initial Damage +100%.). When it comes to Paper Mario, it could be the Star Spirits, who would have the ability to nullify stat bonuses to enemies with Spirit boosts (let's call it, Stat Up Seal, or maybe just Star Beam).
That's a very subjective thing to say and pass off as if it's objective. Sephiroth is a popular character but he's nowhere near as well known as Eggman in the general gaming community. Robotnik has been the main antagonist of nearly every Sonic game that has released. Sephiroth is the main antagonist of only one Final Fantasy game out of 15 games. I'm not trying to undersell Sephiroth here since he's clearly the most popular Final Fantasy villain besides Kefka, but there's a clear difference in magnitude between him and someone like Eggman, who is not only older than him, but is also more prevalent and prolific.
All this talk of Final Fantasy has me curious. They’ve rereleased just about every 3D Final Fantasy game except one, and avoided the MMO’s...
What if they add Lightning from Ff13 to Smash?
As far as villains go, there is also the Pac-man ghosts. I'd imagine they'd be just the next recognizable or perhaps even THEE most recognizable gaming villains.
The worst part about the first DLC pass is that nowadays people undersell characters just because they wouldn't have a new series logo under their portrait.
Like, yeah, sure, maybe someone like Sol or Travis or Arle would be more surprising for the two minutes their trailer lasts but they are not a bigger deal than characters like Shadow, Chun-Li or Sephiroth. Honestly, the hardcore Smash community has become really spoiled where everything has to be an absolute shocker and a hypefest and something that's never been possible before, otherwise it's not worth it.
To me, it's insane. Had you asked anyone 6 years ago what their reaction would be if Sephiroth got into Smash and they'd have told you it's impossible or that they'd cry and stuff. Nowadays apparently it's divisive/disappointing? Yeah, things have changed, and not for the better.
I don't think Sephiroth is less likely than Sol or Travis or Arle, I just think any of those three would be infinitely better choices. Like... I'm tired of seeing Sephiroth everywhere. He hasn't exactly gone away. Square puts him in everything they can. One thing I really like about Smash is that it occasionally gives forgotten or lower-profile characters a chance to shine.
I promised I would speak to 2B and what she's capable of. I'll try not to get all, "Resident Evil, known as Biohazard in Japan..." on you fools.
Basically, NieR Automata is a game set in a post-apocalyptic world. The main characters are androids that are a part of the Yorha military force. 2B is sent on a recon mission, and is accompanied by 9S, who is essentially a support unit. Any unit from Yorha is accompanied by a Pod, which can shoot bullets, fire rockets or lasers, and summon different attacks like a giant hammer, spikes, and other such weapons. The game itself explores themes of finding something to fight for, carving a path of your own, as well becoming enlightened in the face of powerful entities.
There's plenty of quality content that NieR Automata could bring to Smash, but for now I'll focus on 2B and what she can do. Some of you know that 2B crossed over with Soul Calibur (quite funny that she can square up with Gerry Witcherman), and she uses a handful of techniques from her home game.
This trailer gives just a taste of what 2B is capable of. She carries two different weapons at a time. One of them is light, the other is heavier and does more damage. This isn't limited to swords either. 2B can use lances, gauntlets, or even her bare hands to fight. This provides plenty of potential when it comes to her moveset in Smash, though I would largely expect her base weapons to be her two swords. Based on the way NieR Automata plays, I could see 2B as being combo oriented, or even a stance-changer.
What makes her stand out a bit more from other weapons users, to me, is what her pod can do. There's a bunch of different abilities that could be creatively put into Smash, which can be seen for yourselves in the video below:
Overall, I think to truly understand why NieR Automata is such a well made game, you need to play it. That's a tall order, because it's not on Nintendo consoles. To be honest, I'll feel quite confident in 2B coming to Smash should we get a port of NieR Automata on Switch. I'm optimistic about her making it, but I don't think I'd really call her a lock or anything like that. She'd be a great modern pick from a quality game. Her home game builds on the creative mind of the original NieR, as well as Drakengard, which Sakurai has specifically written about in the past. Will that lead to her inclusion later? Who knows!
Thanks for reading. Hopefully this has helped even a few people get to know 2B a bit better. But if it didn't, here's some music for you!
(for this one I just imagine a "Beneath the Mask" type remix...bruh. PLEASE.
The way you keep the surprise is by throwing a curve ball by using another version. Eggman joins smash, but it's jim carrey's eggman. Sephiroth joins smash, but its kawaii version from world of final fantasy. Problem solved.
Well yes, that's Shrodinger's Hype for you. An AT promotion is simultaneously shocking because they can't happen and not shocking because they're already in Smash. Quantum hypechanics are based on that phenomenon.
Anyways, Crono would be sick but Chrono Trigger is pretty much a dead IP so I dunno how likely it'd be them choosing Crono over the much more widely marketable 2B or Lara Croft.
Speaking of which, where's the Tomb Raider love here? That would be a monumental addition to Smash!
Honestly, these days there are very few things one can even call impossible for Smash in the first place, like a Sony or non-VG character, but otherwise, if the idea is just sheer shock value, there's few things that would even register as such.
Heck, Master Chief in Smash is considered a relatively commonplace discussion these days.
Anyways, Crono would be sick but Chrono Trigger is pretty much a dead IP so I dunno how likely it'd be them choosing Crono over the much more widely marketable 2B or Lara Croft.
Speaking of which, where's the Tomb Raider love here? That would be a monumental addition to Smash!
I see the topic of 2nd 3rd Party reps, so let me join in
I can see why just adding 2nd reps for a 3rd Party series may not be the best idea, as you could be using a whole new Franchise to bring in new audience to Smash and new content. at the same time they could be good because people that might already own Smash might be willing still buy the character and stuff, especially if it has a popular fanbase
Like adding in another Sonic character for example could generate alot of money and also love. Sonic characters are recognizable and while people may have mixed feelings about Sonic series and the supporting cast itself, The fact that i see many wants for other Sonic characters should say something. Look at any fan games, or mods, and 98% of the time Sonic is not alone. there is even a Fan Smash game called Sonic Duel (Mod of Brawl) that is exclusively Sonic Smash Bros
Tails, Knuckles, Shadow, and Eggman have reasons for joining in. All Characters are recognizable. They have all unique stuff that could change the game. Tails, Knuckles, and Shadow can easily use Sonic as a base for development purposes, plus have Knuckles and Shadow have AT Models, so they already have a basis of how to animate those two. Plus they have shown they can license the characters too, to the negotiations may not be as hard as getting new franchises. I do think they work better as FP3 characters though. I think if the 2nd 3rd party rep is recognizable, unique enough, and popular enough, they can stand to have their own DLC Pack.
Chun-Li being the first playable fighting game character is an impressive accomplishment, but that doesn't make her iconic. Samus Aran is the first playable female character period, and there's still quite a few people who don't know who she is.
Strongly disagree with Sephiroth being the second most well-known video game villain. I could go to my local supermarket, show several people a picture of Sephiroth, and ask them if they recognize him. I guarantee you a majority of them wouldn't have a clue who he is, let alone which franchise he comes from. Actually, there's quite a few villains who I think would do better than him, and yes, Eggman is one of them.
Lastly, I'm sorry, but I've never seen this high demand for either of those characters like you're claiming. I might've seen them frequently mentioned in places like Smashboards, but conversations between casual fans usually bring up a Sonic character when they discuss what franchises they'd like to see get a second character.
Regardless, all of this stems from my personal opinion and a post that took roughly 20 seconds to make. I think you're taking this a little too seriously.
I strongly disagree as well regarding villains, After Bowser (Most iconic video game villan), I would throw Donkey Kong (Arcade) and Dr. Eggman up there after him as they have been some of the most iconic staples of the video game industry for decades when it comes to antagonist.
Hell, Even the Mario & Sonic Olympic game series has Bowser and Dr. Eggman join forces at times regarding the story.
This is where "Most" cartoony characters have the clear cut advantage when it comes to being known or recognizable when it comes to mainstream.
The only issue I have with Sephiroth is the knowledge that Square would give us like 2 songs and we still wouldn't have any remixes from a series that's well known for its music.
