Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[BernkastelWitch]

I'm convinced Steve will be a controversial pick in this community until the day he gets in and people react with "Duh he obviously fits in Smash". It happened with Pac-Man and it will happen to Steve.

Even though I ain't a fan of Steve in Smash, I feel like every character who will be added in from here on out will be "Controversial" for different reasons from here on out. It even showed in the SSB4 days, too.

 

[Krankees]

I was opposed to Pac-man before he was revealed, mainly because I thought he was going to get his ghostly adventures design, which is ugly.
View attachment 260629

Glad that's not the timeline we live in.

 

[Sysreq]

yellow lego hat

You mean Servbot?

Imagine Frank West throwing a zombie at Isabelle.

Then imagine Isabelle pocketing said zombie lmao

 

[AceAttorney9000]

So by the time they finish the second fighters pass we'll be at 81 characters he's something fun they say there gonna keep going till they get to 100 fill in 76 to 100 with whoever you want I want to see what everyone's rosters would look like

My personal picks for "The Road to 100", including potential Echo Fighters who wouldn't "count" towards the number...

• 76. Phoenix Wright (ɛ - Apollo Justice)
• 77. Taizo Hori
• 78. Geno
• 79. Heihachi Mishima (ɛ - Kazuya Mishima)
• 80. Rex & Pyra
• 81. Sub-Zero
• 82. Monster Hunter
• 83. Excitebiker
• 84. Ratchet & Clank
• 85. Akira Howard
• 86. Doom Slayer
• 87. Crash (ɛ - Coco)
• 88. Spyro (ɛ - Cynder)
• 89. Ezio Auditore
• 90. Waluigi
• 91. Isaac
• 92. Captain Syrup (ɛ - Mona)
• 93. Ayumi Tachibana
• 94. Professor Layton
• 95. Sol Badguy
• 96. Ryu Hayabusa
• 97. Chorus Kids
• 98. Master Chief
• 99. Undyne
• 100. Diskun

 

[King Sonnn DeDeDoo]

Glad that's not the timeline we live in.

Luckily for us, Sakurai was absolutely adamant about PAC-MAN having his classic design

 

[TheCJBrine]

I still think Halo and Minecraft are too big for Smash. Licensing anything from them would be expensive and difficult without their explicit cooperation, and not worth the effort when you could license companies far closer to home that are way less difficult and still get about the same profits from it.

They got Mario in Minecraft, I’m sure it would be fine. They probably wouldn’t charge too much, no matter how much money they make. I don’t know about the Halo devs, but Mojang are pretty lenient. I think Rare also met with Nintendo/started the talks for Banjo, instead of Nintendo approaching them first, so the same could happen for Chief or Steve.

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

I still think Halo and Minecraft are too big for Smash. Licensing anything from them would be expensive and difficult without their explicit cooperation, and not worth the effort when you could license companies far closer to home that are way less difficult and still get about the same profits from it.

> Too big for Smash



We are talking about the same Smash with a majority of the largest video game franchises of all time, and Microsoft, the company that's been incredibly friendly with Nintendo and is looking to promote their brand in any way possible, right?

 

[Ramen Tengoku]

I still think Halo and Minecraft are too big for Smash. Licensing anything from them would be expensive and difficult without their explicit cooperation, and not worth the effort when you could license companies far closer to home that are way less difficult and still get about the same profits from it.

honestly, if they managed to get a franchise like Final Fantasy, which is known to be a licensing nightmare, I think anything goes at this point.

 

[BernkastelWitch]

Honestly, the hardest thing with the idea of Master Chief in Smash would be thinking of a good Moveset for him and Sakurai knows how to be clever with making good moveset kits for characters, even if it may take time.

Negotiations and whatnot would be easy especially since Banjo is in and there would be nothing but benefits if Chief got into Smash.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

> Too big for Smash

View attachment 260635

We are talking about the same Smash with a majority of the largest video game franchises of all time, and Microsoft, the company that's been incredibly friendly with Nintendo and is looking to promote their brand in any way possible, right?

Never mind that their heavy relationship through Minecraft is a huge deal. Like, they're effectively buddies among that franchise. All the more reason Minecraft's chances for appearing in Smash as is are extremely high.

Halo is still worth noting. Plus, the franchise Nintendo probably spent the most money on was Dragon Quest anyway. And it got a huge amount of content outside of songs, all things considered. SNK got a lot too, but they basically said yes to Sakurai easily, so it probably wasn't that pricey with that kind of response. I say probably, cause we really don't have a lot of information on their licensing factors. We just know DQ being held by multiple IP owners, and we know Square-Enix does charge a lot to make sure the IP owners are paid well.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Honestly, the hardest thing with the idea of Master Chief in Smash would be thinking of a good Moveset for him and Sakurai knows how to be clever with making good moveset kits for characters, even if it may take time.

Negotiations and whatnot would be easy especially since Banjo is in and there would be nothing but benefits if Chief got into Smash.

All I'm saying is that if Chief gets in and his down B isn't throwing up a bubble shield I'm going to customer service and demand Falcon buffs

 

[DevaAshera]

honestly, if they managed to get a franchise like Final Fantasy, which is known to be a licensing nightmare, I think anything goes at this point.

Pretty much. Final Fantasy is never easy to license, like how plans to include Cloud Strife in Soul Calibur II fell through and they had to use Heihachi in the PS2 version instead due to that.
Cloud Strife was probably the most difficult 3rd Party for Nintendo to obtain for Super Smash Bros, not counting Sega rejecting Sonic's inclusion in Brawl before this..Smash has grown much more popular since then. Any other characters, aside from possibly Sony, should be absolutely little to no trouble to license be they Sora, Steve, Master Chief, 2B, etc. The only ones that would be a nightmare to license would be Manga/Anime characters and that's only because of how many different entities own licensing rights to them in different territories (see the nightmare that was licensing Tatsunoko vs Capcom in the West for proof of that..and they weren't even big names worldwide).

 

[Cosmic77]

If we do get another Microsoft rep, I think Sakurai would go with Minecraft over Halo.

Between Steven and Master Chief, I think Steve has more creative source material than the latter.

 

[N3ON]

Conceptually I don't think being too big for Smash is a thing, but I don't know Smash's current character budget nor the licensing fees Microsoft would ask for for its two biggest IPs (right?), so while I doubt that would present a problem, it's not like we can know for sure. Budget-wise, it doesn't seem like they're going for newcomers that would be at the top of the lists, except probably DQ.

The most I can say, past reaffirming my doubt, is it doesn't appear as if Microsoft is very picky about the Minecraft license.

honestly, if they managed to get a franchise like Final Fantasy, which is known to be a licensing nightmare, I think anything goes at this point.

Keep in mind we'd likely never hear about ones that didn't pan out.

 

[Renmazuo]

Luckily for us, Sakurai was absolutely adamant about PAC-MAN having his classic design
View attachment 260631

If this doesn't show how little power Bamco has in this relationship then I don't know what will.

 

[TMNTSSB4]

I still think Halo and Minecraft are too big for Smash. Licensing anything from them would be expensive and difficult without their explicit cooperation, and not worth the effort when you could license companies far closer to home that are way less difficult and still get about the same profits from it.

At this point...nothing is too big for Smash anymore

 

[N3ON]

At this point...nothing is too big for Smash anymore

Except highly-produced DLC showcases like Joker's.

 

[DarthEnderX]

At this point...nothing is too big for Smash anymore

Other than an accurate depiction of Ridley.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Other than an accurate depiction of Ridley.

I mean, we have an Omega Ridley spirit and you can grow giant as a spirit equip option, so...

You kind of can?

 

[Cutie Gwen]

At this point...nothing is too big for Smash anymore

Except decent online, character interactions like every other fighting game and proper characterization for a ****ton of characters in the game

 

[DevaAshera]

Keep in mind we'd likely never hear about ones that didn't pan out.

Best we have to go on is Sakurai saying no one has ever denied him for 3rd Parties in Smash. Granted, this doesn't count Sega as they eventually changed their minds before the game they were asked for even released and thus Sonic got in after all.

 

[OrpheusTelos]

So by the time they finish the second fighters pass we'll be at 81 characters he's something fun they say there gonna keep going till they get to 100 fill in 76 to 100 with whoever you want I want to see what everyone's rosters would look like

I would try to keep this semi-realistic, but **** it, time to make the most self-indulgent roster humanly possible
76. Kazuma Kiryu
77. Steve
78. 2B
79. Lloyd Irving
80. Reimu
81. Sol Badguy
82. Ring Fit Athlete
83. Akira Howard
84. Jill Valentine
85. Kat
86. Frisk
87. Sora
88. Master Chief
89. Frogger
90. Dante
91. Phoenix Wright
92. Professor Layton
93. Style Savvy Stylist
94. Geralt of Rivia
95. Carmen Sandiego
96. Paper Mario
97. Heihachi Mishima
98. Dr. Eggman
99. Carl "CJ" Johnson
100. Tony Hawk

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Oh wait crap

lemme edit my list I thought of someone better for fighter 100 - Bella Goth

You’re gonna have that ladder less pool final smash AND YOU WILL LIKE IT!

 

[Guynamednelson]

but I don't know Smash's current character budget nor the licensing fees Microsoft would ask for for its two biggest IPs

I don't think it's the required costs that are a problem at this point, but rather that their criteria for choosing characters clearly wasn't "what gets the most upvotes on r/gaming?" Something a lot of speculation tends to avoid, not just the Steve kind.

 

[YoshiandToad]

So by the time they finish the second fighters pass we'll be at 81 characters he's something fun they say there gonna keep going till they get to 100 fill in 76 to 100 with whoever you want I want to see what everyone's rosters would look like

76. Captain Toad
77. Dixie Kong
78. Bandana Waddle Dee
79. Impa
80. Waluigi
81. Meowth
82. Crash Bandicoot
83. Spyro
84. Heavy (TF2)
85. Chris Redfield
86. Tails
87. Agumon
89. Rayman
90. Bomberman
91. Travis Touchdown
92. Gordon Freeman
93. Lara Croft
94. Akira Howard
95. Tingle
96. Vaati
97. Skull Kid
98. Eevee
99. Paper Mario
100. Lyndis. Always got to end on a Fire Emblem character.

 

[N3ON]

I think people are too cavalier thinking anything is possible for Smash. I think a good good deal is within Smash's reach, but 'anything' is a bit hyperbolic.

Last time Sakurai was not able to acquire Snake. We didn't find out about that until this time, when Snake came back. Had Snake never come back, we probably would never have found out that Sakurai had attempted to re-include him. We know that prior to saying yes on Sonic, Sega said no, then came around. Had Sonic not been included, it's possible that information never would've come to light.

We only hear about the failed attempts and the close calls when that character actually makes it in. Those that don't make it, we won't hear about. So I think it's a bit naive to think that over the years the successful acquisition rate has otherwise been a solid 100%.

I know some people think it's crazy to suggest a company would either not jump at the chance to be included, or would fail to strike an agreement with Nintendo, but I think it's crazier to think that there has never been a third-party that failed see eye-to-eye with Nintendo on this before.

It's not that uncommon for a company to have weird hangups or restrictions on their characters, especially their popular ones.

This isn't specifically about Microsoft, btw. Microsoft seems willing to play ball. It's just in general.

 

[Venus of the Desert Bloom]

So by the time they finish the second fighters pass we'll be at 81 characters he's something fun they say there gonna keep going till they get to 100 fill in 76 to 100 with whoever you want I want to see what everyone's rosters would look like

This list isn’t adding confirmed elements in the game or upgrading things like assists and spirits

76 Scorpion
77 Crash
78 Lloyd Irving
79 Doomslayer
80 Morrigin
81 Ryu Hayabusa
82 Chrono
83 Prince of Persia
84 2B
85 Kratos
86 Dante
87 Sephiroth
88 Harvest Moon Protag
89 Chun-Li
90 Jibanyan
91 Oliver (No no Kuni)
92 Sol Badguy
93 Joanna Dark
94 Monster Hunter
95 Ezio
96 Vault Boy
97 Tracer
98 Nightmare
99 Zacian/Zamenta
100 Goku

 

[perfectchaos83]

It's not that uncommon for a company to have weird hangups or restrictions on their characters, especially their popular ones.

This isn't specifically about Microsoft, btw. Microsoft seems willing to play ball. It's just in general.

I think it's also worth mentioning that just because the team that controls Banjo is perfectly fine with whatever Sakurai comes up with without major hang ups doesn't mean the team that controls Master Chief won't have hang ups with the way Sakurai would choose to represent Master Chief. Just because one company owns both characters does not mean the people involved are the same or have the same mentality in regards to representation.

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

Luckily for us, Sakurai was absolutely adamant about PAC-MAN having his classic design
View attachment 260631

I would have liked to at least had Ghostly Adventures Pac-Man as an alt... because Pac-Man has THE most boring alternates in the game.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I would have liked to at least had Ghostly Adventures Pac-Man as an alt... because Pac-Man has THE most boring alternates in the game.

It also helps that the character is still very expressive.

That said, no Ms. Pac-Man beyond... a sprite with Pac-Land, kind of sucks. One thing's not being an echo, but does she even have a dang Spirit?

 

[Guynamednelson]

Just because one company owns both characters does not mean the people involved are the same or have the same mentality in regards to representation.

See: Sonic's alts vs. Bayonetta/Joker's.

 

[Venus of the Desert Bloom]

I would have liked to at least had Ghostly Adventures Pac-Man as an alt... because Pac-Man has THE most boring alternates in the game.

I made a Pac-Man Alt resembles the ghosts when they are eaten. The entire blue and white color schemes but I can’t seem to find where I put it. I might just make another one.

 

[Ramen Tengoku]

I would have liked to at least had Ghostly Adventures Pac-Man as an alt... because Pac-Man has THE most boring alternates in the game.

this is slandering of oven mitts, and I will not stand for it

 

[Curious Villager]

I think people are too cavalier thinking anything is possible for Smash. I think a good good deal is within Smash's reach, but 'anything' is a bit hyperbolic.

Last time Sakurai was not able to acquire Snake. We didn't find out about that until this time, when Snake came back. Had Snake never come back, we probably would never have found out that Sakurai had attempted to re-include him. We know that prior to saying yes on Sonic, Sega said no, then came around. Had Sonic not been included, it's possible that information never would've come to light.

We only hear about the failed attempts and the close calls when that character actually makes it in. Those that don't make it, we won't hear about. So I think it's a bit naive to think that over the years the successful acquisition rate has otherwise been a solid 100%.

I know some people think it's crazy to suggest a company would either not jump at the chance to be included, or would fail to strike an agreement with Nintendo, but I think it's crazier to think that there has never been a third-party that failed see eye-to-eye with Nintendo on this before.

It's not that uncommon for a company to have weird hangups or restrictions on their characters, especially their popular ones.

This isn't specifically about Microsoft, btw. Microsoft seems willing to play ball. It's just in general.

Yeah didn't Sakurai also state that he had some declines before he settled on Bayonetta?
Hence the whole "among realizable characters" thing with her?

 

[SKX31]

It also helps that the character is still very expressive.

That said, no Ms. Pac-Man beyond... a sprite with Pac-Land, kind of sucks. One thing's not being an echo, but does she even have a dang Spirit?

Nope. She doesn't. The Bamco Spirits in the game are the Ghosts, TURN-TO-BLUE (Power-Pelleted Ghosts), Mother Fairy and Bonus Fruit.

A total of 5 including the Pac himself.

So by the time they finish the second fighters pass we'll be at 81 characters he's something fun they say there gonna keep going till they get to 100 fill in 76 to 100 with whoever you want I want to see what everyone's rosters would look like

Okay.

*Deep breath*

76. Crash Bandicoot
77. Ryu Hayabusa
78. 2B
79. Ring Fit Adventurer
80. Ahri (League of Legends)
81. Master Chief
82. KOS-MOS
83. Dante
84. Arle Nadja
85. Sylux
86. Steve
87. Reimu
88. Kazuya / Jin
89. Dungeon Fighter protag
90. Madeleine (Celeste)
91. Style Savvy
92. Scorpion
93. Zhao Yun (Dynasty Warriors)
94. Tracer
95. Urshifu
96. Thrall
97. Story of Seasons Farmer
98. Ezio
99. Amaterasu
100. Lina (Dota 2)

 

[Invisible Shiny Bulbasaur]

Minecraft content in Super Smash Bros. is inevitable.

I am absolutely confident that Nintendo and Microsoft have at least discussed the possibility of Minecraft in Smash. They both know a DLC pack would sell very, very well.

And I'm quite certain that Sakurai himself recognizes not only the appeal of a fighter with a unique focus on crafting and resource management in their moveset, but also the appeal of Minecraft as a whole when it comes to SSBU being the Ultimate crossover in gaming history.
We shouldn't underestimate the sheer cultural importance of Minecraft. Minecraft pioneered a new subgenre of gaming. Even people who don't like or understand it have at least heard of it. Few games have that distinction.

Minecraft is to zoomers what Pokémon is to millennials: an enduringly popular international cultural phenomenon within the gaming world that has expanded to every entertainment medium. There are Minecraft toys, clothes, books, bedding, decorations, and costumes. Not just in gaming shops but in major retailers. There's a major feature length Minecraft film in the works. The only other gaming franchises I see with this much merchandise are Super Mario and Pokémon.
And now Minecraft is the best selling video game of all time. Minecraft sells, and its owners want it everywhere.

 

[shinhed-echi]

The implication that it

took us 8 years to consider the Battletoads as viable candidates is horrifying.

I’ve been backtracking my expectations a LOT lately.
It’s a real shame too. Battletoads haven’t been as dead as people think.
Killer instinct, Shovel Knight XB/PC, and the 2020 game revealed last year.

They would be perfect too. They have attacks literally called SMASH attacks.
Phil Spencer seems to like them a lot too.

 

[snowgolem]

Guys you’re not gonna believe this. I got some info on the first Fighter’s Pass character. I’ll put it in spoilers to prevent spoilers for those who don’t want to know

Spoiler: Reveal info

revealed on Feb 12
Released on April 20th
Released with a Geno Mii outfit, a kosmos outfit and another Isaac Mii outfit

Spoiler: Character

Barry from Jetpack Joyride. This is so epic guys I can’t believe it I swear it isn’t fake

 

[Guybrush20X6]

So what rumors are alive ATM?

How's the one about Crash as no. 6?

 

[Deleted member]

So what rumors are alive ATM?

How's the one about Crash as no. 6?

I'd say none as of the moment.