Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[shinhed-echi]

If he next character is based on Bayonetta, my guesses are:
Lara Croft (for gunfighting and acrobatics)

Or

Ring Fit Trainer (for flexibility and acrobatics)

 

[PSIGuy]

Is there actual evidence of all those characters being bases for other characters? Legit asking here, because a few glitches doesn't necessarily mean anything.

Everything about the glitch characters being related to the new fighters is conjecture, yeah. We know that fighters are based on each other and sometimes there are leftovers (like Little Mac having a frame of Captain Falcon's ladder climb animation left), but there's no proof that the characters used these glitched ones as a basis.

 

[Icedragonadam]

I wonder if amiibo theory will still hold true for Vol 2. We don't have any info for the Joker amiibo but hopefully they'll announce it in the next direct. I'm guessing the amiibo releases will be slower since all of the base roster + Plant is covered already plus variants that will probably be added as well.

 

[perfectchaos83]

Is there actual evidence of all those characters being bases for other characters? Legit asking here, because a few glitches doesn't necessarily mean anything.

Assuming these aren't all just glitch coincidences and that one of the next fighters is legit based off Bayonetta, it doesn't necessarily imply playstyle, does it? It could be anything, from body shape to weight to having a single similar attack (say for example a charging forward punch in Bayo's case). Though I'll certainly be happy if it points toward either Dante or 2B.

Because of these glitches? No. But Sakurai has said that they create new fighters based on old characters. Ones I know off hand are Ike for Cloud and Corrin, ZSS for Bayonetta, (I think) Charizard for Ridley and Bowser Jr. for Piranha Plant.

 

[Cosmic77]

I wonder if amiibo theory will still hold true for Vol 2. We don't have any info for the Joker amiibo but hopefully they'll announce it in the next direct. I'm guessing the amiibo releases will be slower since all of the base roster + Plant is covered already plus variants that will probably be added as well.

Takes about 9 months for them to make an amiibo, and considering how they're probably going to be released in waves, I don't think it'll keep going.

Might be able to keep up the pattern until the third fighter, but that largely depends on whether or not Hero and Byleth get alt amiibo.

 

[cosmicB]

Everything about the glitch characters being related to the new fighters is conjecture, yeah. We know that fighters are based on each other and sometimes there are leftovers (like Little Mac having a frame of Captain Falcon's ladder climb animation left), but there's no proof that the characters used these glitched ones as a basis.

Because of these glitches? No. But Sakurai has said that they create new fighters based on old characters. Ones I know off hand are Ike for Cloud and Corrin, ZSS for Bayonetta, (I think) Charizard for Ridley and Bowser Jr. for Piranha Plant.

Yeah, I just meant specifically the glitches. I should have been more clear in my post. I know the characters are based on each other to some extent, but I didn't remember if those glitches were ever proved to be anything actually related to newcomers.

 

[Hadokeyblade]

I wonder if the amiibo for this games DLC characters will do the same as Smash 4's DLC Amiibo. 2 Jokers, 4 Hero's and 2 Byleths.

I would totally try to collect the Hero ones if that happened. Especially since it's impossible to get Guv's others figure for being out of print for years.

 

[N3ON]

To my knowledge the base characters are chosen based on physical similarities, not necessarily thematic similarities (with something like a sword counting as a physical similarity since it’s part of the physical model).

So if Bayo really is being used as a base, I would ascribe that to a female character over one like Dante, who’d probably be closer, framework-wise, to Cloud or a FE character. Or even Joker.

Even for 2B though, I’d think that’d be closer to Lucina, or female Corrin or Byleth.

 

[Dinoman96]

People have said that Banjo & Kazooie's files actually have data pertaining to Ridley.

It sounds crazy but it does kind of make sense considering how similar few of their moves are (a down smash where they slam their wings downward, an up air where they pretrude their wings upward, a forward tilt with a sweetspot at the tip that can be angeled downward/upward, and Banjo's back air is similar to Ridley's forward air).

 

[Icedragonadam]

Well there's another combo based female character associated with the dark.....

Actually looking at it. Velvet could be a great Pass seller. A heroine from what a lot of fans consider, one of the best games in the Tales series and unique battle style as well.

 

[CureParfait]

If Bayo is used as a base, for some odd reason Noel Vermillion popped into my mind but I highly doubt she'll come to Smash before Ragna though.

 

[DevaAshera]

A lot of people would freak out over Steve, probably just as many as there would be for Chief, including a lot of older people (average age for a Minecraft player is 24 and plenty of older people play it). Even if Steve isn’t a focus in Minecraft, he’s the face of the game (and is used as a character alongside Alex in a lot of official artwork and other stuffs like some official videos, and is referred to by name, and he and Alex were basically referred to as the stars of Minecraft in a news article on the website (joking about bees being the new stars)), and many love him just as well, just search up the builds and fan art people have made including him and Alex and others. Steve has also crossed over with other games. You’ve gotta be kidding if you say Steve wouldn’t be big. He isn’t just a financial pick, and would definitely make a splash with fans.

also, funny; the more people talk about Chief and throw Steve under the bus in the same post, the more I feel sour about Chief.

I feel like Steve as a Mii Fighter Costume would create the same buzz similar to how Sans and Cuphead did as Mii Fighter Costumes.
I also feel like a Minecraft stage would be infinitely better representation of the series than Steve would provide, so I'd rather have just a Minecraft stage.

Granted, I also hate Steve, the artstyle of the characters in Minecraft, and the limited animations that he has in his home series.

In regards to Master Chief, I have no real desire for him, I'm not a fan of the Halo series even if I do enjoy a game every so often on my brother's console, but I do feel he's more of a legacy character than Steve who has one successful game, one lesser one, and one yet to be known. I don't know if Minecraft, as a series, has much longevity beyond its initial game, as massive a success as it is, or if it is the world's most successful and impactful one-hit wonder.

 

[Professor Pumpkaboo]

Well there's another combo based female character associated with the dark.....

Actually looking at it. Velvet could be a great Pass seller. A heroine from what a lot of fans consider, one of the best games in the Tales series and unique battle style as well.

If im getting Tales characters, I want itnto be Yuri

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Well there's another combo based female character associated with the dark.....

Actually looking at it. Velvet could be a great Pass seller. A heroine from what a lot of fans consider, one of the best games in the Tales series and unique battle style as well.

First thing is first though. Gonna have to censor some of that skin exposing.

 

[TheCJBrine]

Bayonetta has long legs...

...you know who else has long legs?

Spoiler

I feel like Steve as a Mii Fighter Costume would create the same buzz similar to how Sans and Cuphead did as Mii Fighter Costumes.
I also feel like a Minecraft stage would be infinitely better representation of the series than Steve would provide, so I'd rather have just a Minecraft stage.

Granted, I also hate Steve, the artstyle of the characters in Minecraft, and the limited animations that he has in his home series.

His animations aren’t so limited in official trailers. His ingame animations already show he can move his limbs all around like other characters. Also, he would represent crafting and building and other stuff the player can do when playing, stuff that the game is about, it’s not just about the world.

And Minecraft would cause buzz as a costume, yes, but it’d cause a lot of buzz with Steve as a character as well. I don’t see how that’s relevant. It’s huge, and Steve is a popular pick and is asked for more often.

And Minecraft isn’t just a one-hit wonder. Don’t let your videogame hatred cloud your view like some other people do. It has been popular for nearly over a decade, has sold tons of merchandise, and has a new game on the way that has caused hype and it had another game, Story Mode, which also saw success, even if some fans didn’t like it as much. It definitely has a legacy and is making more of one and isn’t even new anymore. The main game also gets more stuff added to it through updates, as Mojang still works on it, so it’s not like they dropped it to move on for more projects within the same franchise. They also have plans for the game for the next ten years. It’ll stop being worked on someday, but millions love it, so it’ll definitely be a classic, like some old Nintendo games.

And since these kinds of arguments keep showing up every now and then online, arguments born of negative opinions and nothing really objective at all, even sounding selfish at least sometimes:

Let people enjoy things. You wouldn’t even want the stage. You wouldn’t even want the Mii. Why bother caring anyway.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Finally. Image uploader is working. Anyway this is my dream pass. What do you all think? Would you be happy with this pass.

I love this pass. Please give it to me. Not just Crash, Weight and Doom Slayer but Kratos as well? This would be the best pass ever.

 

[Dutch Raikuna]

Well there's another combo based female character associated with the dark.....

Actually looking at it. Velvet could be a great Pass seller. A heroine from what a lot of fans consider, one of the best games in the Tales series and unique battle style as well.

One of my favourite female characters ever. I would be screaming of joy to see Velvet in Smash. It's been a while since I've played Berseria but her having a sort of Break Soul mechanic that allows her vampire arm to go insane would be amazing.

While I love Symphonia and Vesperia I think Velvet would have a more fun moveset than Lloyd or Yuri.

 

[DevaAshera]

His animations aren’t so limited in official trailers. His ingame animations already show he can move his limbs all around like other characters. Also, he would represent crafting and building and other stuff the player can do when playing, stuff that the game is about, it’s not just about the world.

And Minecraft would cause buzz as a costume, yes, but it’d cause a lot of buzz with Steve as a character as well. I don’t see how that’s relevant. It’s huge, and Steve is a popular pick and is asked for more often.

And Minecraft isn’t just a one-hit wonder. Don’t let your videogame hatred cloud your view like some other people do. It has been popular for nearly over a decade, has sold tons of merchandise, and has a new game on the way that has caused hype and it had another game, Story Mode, which also saw success, even if some fans didn’t like it as much. It definitely has a legacy and is making more of one and isn’t even new anymore. The main game also gets more stuff added to it through updates, as Mojang still works on it, so it’s not like they dropped it to move on for more projects within the same franchise. They also have plans for the game for the next ten years. It’ll stop being worked on someday, but millions love it, so it’ll definitely be a classic, like some old Nintendo games.

And since these kinds of arguments keep showing up every now and then online, arguments born of negative opinions and nothing really objective at all, even sounding selfish at least sometimes:

Let people enjoy things. You wouldn’t even want the stage. You wouldn’t even want the Mii. Why bother caring anyway.

They're limited in the game. He can do two things: walk and swing. Even his damaged animation is just his walking animation flashing red.

I don't hate Minecraft, to the contrary, I find it fun. I just think Steve and the characters in the game are ugly..I find them beyond displeasing aesthetically.

I actually would enjoy a stage, it would be interesting visually and with what could happen on it.

 

[Deleted member]

Good afternoon...I was just waltzing over here and...wait, did Rie Sonomura 's saying was actually true???

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

More animations exist beyond the base game. It's really not an issue to begin with. It's been covered in the series as is.

That, and they'd be using the actual game box design, which is far more streamlined, if it being all grainy is an issue. Ugliness isn't an issue either with that in mind. Steve has a pretty sleek design now.

The character is really easy to integrate into Smash. The biggest thing is how to balance the crafting mechanic, and really the only thing standing in his way from getting in. Creation-based gimmicks can cause issues due to things like too many objects. Pikmin & Olimar were not very easy to create, and they had 3DS-related issues too. But objects aren't the entire factor. It's how powerful certain things can be, and how it's handled. Do you have extra controls when activating the special moves? Is it pure RNG in what you get? Is it done in a cycle like how you get through PT's Pokemon? These are all key factors in how it works and how it adds to the game's balance.

 

[TheCJBrine]

They're limited in the game. He can do two things: walk and swing. Even his damaged animation is just his walking animation flashing red.

I don't hate Minecraft, to the contrary, I find it fun. I just think Steve and the characters in the game are ugly..I find them beyond displeasing aesthetically.

I actually would enjoy a stage, it would be interesting visually and with what could happen on it.

He can also swim and fly, the swimming and punching already showing he can move his limbs around. He’s not like Game & Watch, and his animations in the game aren’t limited because of canonical reasons. Just like how Mario isn’t actually limited to just jumping and running and whatever as a character. Official trailer animations for updates and stuff show characters doing a lot more, being just as expressive as other videogame characters. Characters also blink in Bedrock Edition.

And alright, that’s fine. I just don’t understand why some people will try and reason against Steve being playable because they don’t like him, instead of just simply saying that. Some people do it and suggest other things when they don’t even like the game...and nothing they say is objective, either, despite them saying it as such, but admittedly it’s not so common anymore, thankfully...

 

[Invisible Shiny Bulbasaur]

I feel like Steve is the type of fighter whose unique play style potential can't be fully grasped or appreciated until he makes the roster.
There are a ton of ways Sakurai could implement Minecraft's gameplay mechanics into a moveset, namely the way that the player gathers resources over time and then utilises them to craft new tools, weapons, and armor to become stronger.

I can envision him having a standard special simply called Mine, and a down special called Craft. The more time you spend mining, the better resources you find, and the more time you spend crafting, the better the equipment you can create.
That's just off the top of my head.

I also think that his animations could be faithful to the source material, and that while those animations will certainly look very different than other fighters, that's not a bad thing.
A lot of people really seem to overestimate how much a character with comparatively weird animations will affect gameplay.

Edit: Just another random but related thought, I also think Steve would come with seven unique alts, like Alex, rather than simple recolors, and that's always fun.

 

[Dutch Raikuna]

To sum up Minecraft, it's a universe that is so perfect for a stage but for character.........eh. I don't want Steve as I just don't find Minecraft appealing.

 

[Sysreq]

That Bayo model theory thing probably fits Lara Croft the best. Guns, acrobatics, similar body types. idk why Dante, a dude with a sword, would use her model.

 

[Ben Holt]

That Bayo model theory thing probably fits Lara Croft the best. Guns, acrobatics, similar body types. idk why Dante, a dude with a sword, would use her model.

What's this about? Is there a leak where a Fighter is using Bayonetta as a base?

 

[TheCJBrine]

To sum up Minecraft, it's a universe that is so perfect for a stage but for character.........eh. I don't want Steve as I just don't find Minecraft appealing.

That’s fine.

Here’s my take on the stage thing:

The game isn’t just about the world. It’s also about surviving and being creative, crafting and building stuff and mining things and adventuring and whatever. Steve wouldn’t be any less perfect than a stage and imo would actually make things perfect. The only reasons I can think of for why just a stage would be perfect literally work for any other character and their games.

And while just liking the stage is fine, I’ve actually seen people in the past try and push it as a real argument against Steve, so sorry if I’m once again taking y’all wrong.

 

[Sysreq]

What's this about? Is there a leak where a Fighter is using Bayonetta as a base?

It’s like a page or two back. 4chan post admittedly but it’s more observations than leak

 

[Ridrool64]

You know this technically doesn't have to do with newcomers anymore since we've passed the point where we'd regularly get them. But there's something I've noticed about Assist Trophies and Mii Costumes.

Spoiler: Wall of Text

The first time you get your character in Smash in any way, shape, or form, it's a miracle. People are ecstatic over seeing them manage to make it, like the popular reception Shovel Knight's Assist Trophy got, even if it was bittersweet to those who wanted him in as a Fighter. They get a model, abilities, sometimes even voice acting. It's a sight to behold to get a taste of what the Smash team thinks of your character. Bomberman is an outlier, though he may have come as a one-two punch.

The second time... not so much. At that point the magic has worn off, and especially since many continue to believe that an Assist Trophy doesn't help for DLC due to the Waluigi statement back during Smash 4, they become dreaded as the "Snowglobe" that serves only to make your character a loser to be mocked by fans of the winners. The most negatively received Assist Trophies in Ultimate were Waluigi, Ashley, Isaac, Shadow and Skull Kid, all of whom were very popular requests, and in the case of the former four had time between Assist Trophy announcements where people could really see them being in.

When it comes to Mii Costumes, so far all of them in Ultimate have either been well liked or considered a consolation prize good enough to not fuss over, with the exception of Rex. But back in Smash 4, people lost their **** over King K. Rool's costume, to the extent of trying to debate if they really meant the end for another prospective newcomer (spoiler: they did, and I'd wager they still do), but he was THE most popular newcomer pick who had a chance. People didn't really hate the others, from what I remember, to any significant extent half as much as K. Rool's (Geno's costume coming back, or even getting a remake, would get a similar reception today, if not worse. But at the time his support was dead and the Mii Costume brought it back to life). So I'd say Mii Costumes are mostly the reverse: people who were already out of the running are appreciated for at least getting a costume, but having to play as a skinned version of your character with a moveset that only fits on a superficial level, if at all, can be really rough, especially when they were popularly speculated. Sans and Cuphead, because they are the "Premiium" costumes, are a notable exception; a music track and not having to look at a Mii's face, which reminds you that this isn't really the character, goes a long way in making them more popular.

In the base game, it's an Assist Trophy, and in DLC it's the Mii Costume. They only work as a "sorry, we couldn't make this character into a fully fledged fighter. Please accept this instead, it's the best we could do" sort of gift once. After that, that's when they become a middle finger, especially when Piranha Plant and Byleth and Corrin, none of whom got the welcome wagon, and whatnot get in while beloved characters are shot dead. That's almost certainly not the intent, they're made with the intent of showing the character love (except for when they're the butt of a joke, like Waluigi or Tingle). But that is, from what I've noticed, the in practice effect.

Spirits are... well... hard to say. But people don't really accept the idea that this is the end of the character. In the case of the post launch spirits, people aren't raging, but they are sad to see them killed off, and as it's currently going on and could happen to anybody then we're in trouble if most of our popular predictions end up in the trash due to Spirit events. Base roster Spirits are debated on if they signal the end of the character or there's a chance, and if so, when the door was open. While I personally believe BR Spirits don't, I can understand the perspective of people who think that they very well may.

Whether or not having nothing is better than having something in game is up to you. By and large, some games like the Henry Stickmin series are just NOT going to be represented whatsoever. There's also the issue of leaker culture that means we're sheep to whatever big leak comes out from insiders or rogues who post text or whatnot. Especially if the Disconfirmation train continues with leakers, Spirits, and Mii Costumes telling us what's in and not. Who is Fighter 6? Even if we get them in April as I believe we will, there's 10 to 13 more weeks of potential Spirit events. If we have to wait until E3, that's 19 weeks of potential Spirits events. That's terrifying, though the number of tourneys we'll get could mitigate that.

This is more of a global analysis of non-Fighter content in Smash rather than anything else. I feel like I may have undercooked some of my thoughts, because it's late and I should sleep.

 

[Deleted member]

That Bayo model theory thing probably fits Lara Croft the best. Guns, acrobatics, similar body types. idk why Dante, a dude with a sword, would use her model.

They're probably guessing a combo-based character.

 

[Izanagi97]

Well, that Bayo model theory is interesting if anything. Real question is will it hold when Fighter 6 gets datamined or will it be added to the pile of bodies.

 

[Deleted member]

Well, that Bayo model theory is interesting if anything. Real question is will it hold when Fighter 6 gets datamined or will it be added to the pile of bodies.

Hmmm...I doubt a datamine...though if an update adds her/him in...

 

[Jerry98]

So by the time they finish the second fighters pass we'll be at 81 characters he's something fun they say there gonna keep going till they get to 100 fill in 76 to 100 with whoever you want I want to see what everyone's rosters would look like

100 characters would be crazy!
I will think about a list

 

[Ben Holt]

Hey look! Actual speculation here!
I think Heihachi is extremely likely this time around because of Sakurai's statements from Smash 4 when he said that Heihachi was straight up PLANNED, but they couldn't come up with a moveset in time.
I think it's time.
If you were to ask me right now who I think the top 3 candidates are for this Pass, I'd say Crash Bandicoot, Rayman, and Heihachi. In that order. Doom Slayer is iffy. Bethesda did deny Doom Slayer being in Smash, but also NDAs.
If Crash Bandicoot truly is FP6, then I think we should all start paying attention to MandyCan.

 

[Izanagi97]

Now the question is, what characters would fit the criteria of "would use Bayo as a base" if this turns out to be legit

 

[Wunderwaft]

Now the question is, what characters would fit the criteria of "would use Bayo as a base" if this turns out to be legit

Dante or Lara Croft are my guesses.

Little Mac used Captain Falcon as a base even though both don't play anything alike. Playstyle doesn't matter that much, the model itself seems to matter more.

 

[RaintheCriminalWhirlwind]

One of my favourite female characters ever. I would be screaming of joy to see Velvet in Smash. It's been a while since I've played Berseria but her having a sort of Break Soul mechanic that allows her vampire arm to go insane would be amazing.

While I love Symphonia and Vesperia I think Velvet would have a more fun moveset than Lloyd or Yuri.

I originally wanted Yuri and Estelle in smash but after finding a video of her artes, I am totally changing my Wishlist because she looks too badass to not be in Smash. There is so much potential there. Plus, she reminds of the Dead Weight Nero and that's a bonus!

New wishlist!
2B
Velvet
Dante (or Nero)
Galford (or Sol Badguy)
Morrigan (or Chun-Li or Phoenix)
Master Chief

 

[Deleted member]

Now the question is, what characters would fit the criteria of "would use Bayo as a base" if this turns out to be legit

I'm thinking a slightly well-endowed female figure. Someone along the lines of Velvet Crowe and Morrigan.

 

[Ben Holt]

I'm thinking a slightly well-endowed female figure. Someone along the lines of Velvet Crowe and Morrigan.

Didn't we already agree that Mai kinda ****ed Morrigan over?
I gotta lean with the consensus of Lara and Dante.
Though I guess it could be any pistol fighter given that Bayonetta's the only realistic gun user besides Joker's one move.

 

[Izanagi97]

Didn't we already agree that Mai kinda ****ed Morrigan over?
I gotta lean with the consensus of Lara and Dante.
Though I guess it could be any pistol fighter given that Bayonetta's the only realistic gun user besides Joker's one move.

Cept if Bayo is the base due to using pistols, wouldn't it have to be a character who dual wields pistols instead of only using one or am I thinking about this too hard

 

[Guybrush20X6]

Didn't we already agree that Mai kinda ****ed Morrigan over?

The issue isn't sex appeal, it is specifically the ability to do panty shots as the Japanese censors have started cracking down on them hard since the WiiU era.
I don't think they're going to freak out over a little shoulder.