Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[Wunderwaft]

Carry on folks

 

[nessdeltarune00]

Two rumors about Crash Bandicoot being FP6.

If Zippo is to be believed, I could actually see that happening.

 

[Flyboy]

Carry on folks

View attachment 259528

This is why I like Zippo. He clarifies when it's stuff like this.

 

[Pinguino21v]

If fighters 6 through 10 aren't Spirits would you still believe that Fighter 11 still has a good chance of being upgrade?

Yes, because it's the more disappointing character that will close the pass, and what is more disappointing than an AT upgrade? The 11th character is gonna be. First party

What was your stance on Spirit and Assist Trophy upgrades for Season 1? At least before Joker was revealed

Before Joker, very unlikely.
After Joker, zero chance.

Lastly is your belief for thinking that Spirits are going to be upgrade because your most wanted is a Spirit or that is mostly due to you feeling like that is something likely gonna happen for Fighters Pass 2?

Both. But that is not because my most wanted is AT that I became narrow-minded and closed to discussion. Like I previously said, there are good reasons to think all the first parties of the pass will be promotional picks, and there are a few of these trophies that can get in if tied with a new game of their serie. There's not a lot of possible promotional picks.
In the case of my own most wanted Isaac, there are also a few suspicious things that might make think a new game is coming. No proof yet, I'm still expecting a joint announcement of a new game and the character in smash.

 

[Cosmic77]

Maybe we should avoid talking about Spirits altogether. Every time we have a discussion on them, the thread gets all:

 

[Krankees]

Maybe we should avoid talking about Spirits altogether. Every time we have a discussion on them, the thread gets all:

View attachment 259532

And the papagenos reaction too while we're at it. I'm getting bored seeing it get talked about.

 

[King Sonnn DeDeDoo]

A lot of people have been speculating the potential of a Koei-Techmo character for over a year and always seem to go for Ryu Hayabusa, but I really think that Dynasty Warrior's Zhao Yun has a better shot to be honest.

Looking at the history of the company, Romance of the Three Kingdoms is central to their success. Koei was initially famous for Nobunaga's Ambition as one of the earliest grand strategy games in 1983, later they would make a new strategy game set during the 3 kingdoms era of Han China called Romance of the Three Kingdoms in 1985. The series has been financially successful and continuous, selling about the same as the Ninja Gaiden series and released it's 14 entry in 2020. The series is a classic in Japan and a pioneer of the grand strategy genre, but despite this Zhao Yun is not particularly important, just one of many characters in the game.

In 2000, a spin-off series for Romance of the Three Kingdoms was released called a hack and slash game called Dynasty Warriors 2 developed by Omega Force (Dynasty Fighters 1 was an unsuccessful fighting game). Dynasty Warriors would become Koei-Techmo's most popular and profitable franchise and creating the "Musou" genre, hack and slash combat against mass amounts of enemies while also borrowing tactical elements of its mother series. Omega Force would go on to create more spin-off of the series itself, Samurai warriors that adapts the combat for a Japanese setting, Warriors Orochi a crossover game franchise between Dynast warriors and Samurai warriors, and Warriors all-stars which is a smash bros. like crossover of all Koei-Techmo's franchises with Musou gameplay.

To reiterate the popularity of the series and the genre it has created, The Legend of Zelda, Fire Emblem, and now Persona all have Musou type spin-off games in recent years. Additionally, Fist of the North Star, One Piece, and Gundam have all received multiple games in this genre made by Omega Force.

Not only does this series have roots all the way back to the very start of gaming, but it has found great and continued success in the 21st century as well, I think it would be wise for the speculation community to keep an eye on it, even if it is more niche in western markets. It has a total of 9 mainline games and even a movie that released in China in 2019.
- - - - -

Now on to Zhao Yun himself, who is he? Zhao Yun is just one of many characters in Romance of the Three Kingdoms, while he is based on a mythical historical figure, the prominence and characterization he receives is unique to the video games. He has become the poster-boy of the series itself, featured on nearly all its promotional content and topping many of Koei-Techmo's Dynasty warriors popularity polls. Even for the Koei-Techmo crossover game Zhao Yun takes center stage.

Now I won’t try to lie to you, I personally have very little experience with the Dynasty Warriors series myself, so I cannot adequately give a proper idea of his character and his abilities besides knowing that he is supposed to be an honorable and loyal warrior who is able to decimate entire armies with spear. If someone with more experience with the series could give more in-depth explanation of how a Musou move-set might be adapted into Smash that would be appreciated.

 

[nessdeltarune00]

Carry on folks

View attachment 259528

Also, judging by the screencap of his post history, did he imply a Direct was coming soon?

 

[Rangez]

I think Sakurai said something along the lines of Kirby being easy to copy without capturing him or something

Yeah, that was addressed by Sakurai in an interview saying that Galeem had managed to analyze him and create puppet fighters out of Kirby halfway through World of Light:

At the start of World of Light, there are no Spirit battles with Kirby. This is because he survives. However, in the later half there are. The thought process was that he was analyzed at one point. pic.twitter.com/iUYwKbxr9D

— Will (PushDustIn) (@PushDustIn) February 20, 2019

 

[Wunderwaft]

Timing is most certainly not my main argument for spirit upgrades.

It’s the overall package of a fighter pack, as well as precedence.

Many of the first party picks that folks have suggested aren’t a protagonist, whereas literally every single other DLC pick has been exactly that: the lead character of their respective game. In addition, the only two Nintendo-owned picks were from relevant games of the era, and they both happened to come from the same game.

Now, it’s typical that “side characters” don’t get added before their lead character in a given series.

But here’s the next part: The Challenger Packs more or less have all come with entirely new content. This means that there’s nothing that hasn’t already been in the game prior. While Fire Emblem Three Houses is definitely part of the Fire Emblem series (which has been in Smash for awhile) the individual title was nowhere to be found. Other series, like Kirby, Mario, or Zelda, do not have that same situation.

It is based on precedent, and precedent that is clear and provable, that these things occur. The protagonist or mascot is typically the one chosen and, to this point, we’ve only ever gotten 1st parties from relevant games of the era.

Could that change? Maybe. But I’m not quite sure that after 9 DLC newcomers, Sakurai wouldn’t suddenly change his entire approach and add side characters.

With Spirits, Three Houses was speculated to get somebody based on the lack of spirits in an event. Astral Chain and other series got the boot from speculation, so while this wasn’t really the point you made, I don’t really get why certain series are exempt from this disconfirmation when it seems pretty clear that spirits have been saved for actual character releases.

It simply seems more like a lot of hypotheticals rather than “here’s a reason to expect this”. That’s what I’m waiting for, because believe me...I’d love to see Rex, or Rayman, or somebody else get upgraded. But I simply don’t believe they will based on precedent and evidence.

You are free to believe spirit promotions won't happen. I don't think there's a way for either of us to change each other's minds after so many arguments since both of our thought process differs on one thing, I don't believe the pattern you mentioned actually holds weight while you do. I will say this, however, many patterns have been broken in Ultimate. While it is true that nothing is pointing towards Spirits being promoted, there is nothing explicitly saying they couldn't possibly be added as DLC. Because this possibility exists hope arises from people. Could this hope be blind and naive? Certainly so, I myself don't believe promotions are that likely but I keep entertaining this possibility because its not a 0%.

I think the newcomer sub-forum's description perfectly describes Smash speculation:
"Hopes and dreams are what this forum runs on. Speculate to your heart's content!"

I respect your position and your beliefs but there is not enough information and evidence to convince the other side, this is the dilemma we're at currently. I have seen the evidence you provided but I don't believe it completely disproves the idea that Spirits could be promoted as DLC.

 

[PeridotGX]

I've been thinking about how Grovyle (or any PMD character) might actually be a possibility for the DLC. Like Three Houses before it, Mystery Dungeon has absolutely no content in Smash, and now that Rescue Team is getting remade it could be a promotional pick. I wouldn't count on it (especially before it's release, when Spirit Boards are at there most common), but it's worth considering.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

You are free to believe spirit promotions won't happen. I don't think there's a way for either of us to change each other's minds after so many arguments since both of our thought process differs on one thing, I don't believe the pattern you mentioned actually holds weight while you do. I will say this, however, many patterns have been broken in Ultimate. While it is true that nothing is pointing towards Spirits being promoted, there is nothing explicitly saying they couldn't possibly be added as DLC. Because this possibility exists hope arises from people. Could this hope be blind and naive? Certainly so, I myself don't believe promotions are that likely but I keep entertaining this possibility because its not a 0%.

I think the newcomer sub-forum's description perfectly describes Smash speculation:
"Hopes and dreams are what this forum runs on. Speculate to your heart's content!"

I respect your position and your beliefs but there is not enough information and evidence to convince the other side, this is the dilemma we're at currently. I have seen the evidence you provided but I don't believe it completely disproves the idea that Spirits could be promoted as DLC.

I respect this.

Like, this comment was great because I’m not being told that I’m a crazy 26 year old old-man for believing what I believe. More so that despite that information, it’s a difference of opinion. Maybe it’s that I feel as though you actually read what I posted?

I appreciate this comment, and I appreciate you. Thank you.

 

[nessdeltarune00]

I've been thinking about how Grovyle (or any PMD character) might actually be a possibility for the DLC. Like Three Houses before it, Mystery Dungeon has absolutely no content in Smash, and now that Rescue Team is getting remade it could be a promotional pick. I wouldn't count on it (especially before it's release, when Spirit Boards are at there most common), but it's worth considering.

This is likely coming from a biased standpoint, but I can’t imagine a scenario where Spike Chunsoft is directly involved like that, and Monokuma isn’t chosen. (Just my opinion though)

Especially since Sakurai loves the Danganronpa series.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Hey guys wh-

*Sees current discussion*

Did Zippo say something about Crash being FP6!?

 

[Cosmic77]

Hey guys wh-

*Sees current discussion*

Did Zippo say something about Crash being FP6!?

Anything he said was just speculation. Nothing more.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Anything he said was just speculation. Nothing more.

Awww man...

 

[DarthEnderX]

Its January 2022, the final DLC fighter for Smash Ultimate has been released a month pior and Smash Boards will still find a way to debate about Spirits being upgraded.

Not if A. A Spirit gets upgraded in that time.

And B. Fighter Pass 3 gets announced!

Got a few questions for the people in the pro-Spirit upgrade camp that I am curious about.

If fighters 6 through 10 aren't Spirits would you still believe that Fighter 11 still has a good chance of being upgrade?

I don't think there is a "good chance" anyway. But I think there's a possibility. And I will continue to think there's a possibility unless Sakurai says otherwise(and even then I'd be skeptical he's trying to throw people off). No matter how many other non-spirit characters get released.

 

[King Sonnn DeDeDoo]

Made a fighter pass, it's not really a prediction. More of mix of my most wanted and a couple I think that are underrated in speculation.

 

[nessdeltarune00]

Made a fighter pass, it's not really a prediction. More of mix of my most wanted and a couple I think that are underrated in speculation.

View attachment 259547

Going to be honest, right before the Direct when Zippo made the initial claim alongside Vergeben/Sabis deconfirmations, I legitimately thought Farmer was going to be FP5.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

So if Zippo is right guess were waiting until E3 for FP6.

No worries got many things to keep my occupied with games, movies, books, life and such.

 

[pinshadow]

I am so goddamn sick of talking about Spirits. Not because of any particular character I want being one, but because of the fact that no matter where you are, here, Youtube, Twitter, Reddit, Resetera, GameFaqs, 4chan, the instant you even mention a character who is a spirit, that ONE guy is going to instantly say "WEEELLLLL ACKTUALLYYY, Lanky Kong can't be in because he's a Spirit" and it just leads to the exact same argument we had today. The one we have had literally thousands of times at this point. Its not productive or interesting, all it serves to do is limit discussion and focus on this stupid "rule" that may or may not be true. I don't care who 6 is, I'm just praying it's a spirit so we never have to have this argument again.

 

[nessdeltarune00]

So if Zippo is right guess were waiting until E3 for FP6.

No worries got many things to keep my occupied with games, movies, books, life and such.

It literally was just clarified that it was speculation.

 

[TheCJBrine]

Still discussing spirits?

Since no one replied to my posts, I just hope no one took them the wrong way as I was intending to be respectful while explaining my thoughts; I didn’t mean to come off rude or anything, although I realize I sometimes get a bit too serious in arguments, but I don’t try to insult anyone... (sorry if I came off rude, Scoliosis Jones )

 

[Deleted member]

If someone with more experience with the series could give more in-depth explanation of how a Musou move-set might be adapted into Smash that would be appreciated.

I may not be great at moveset concepts, but I certainly got 1 in mind for any DW rep in particular.

In DW8, each character has 6 normal attacks, and with the first 5 attacks, they can be followed up by a charge attack. A concept I had in mind was that a DW character in Smash would have between 4 to 6 regular jabs but each of them with the exception of the last can be followed up by a unique attack either by pressing B or holding A.

As for Zhao Yun specifically, he has a couple of moves that can easily fit with Smash. For example, he has a special attack where he can launch himself forward with a slash kinda like Shulk's back slash which could be used for his side B or his neutral B if pressed twice (if we're considering his neutral special is his basic charge attack). There's also a weapon switching attack where he swings his spear and launches it upward diagonally which could be used for his down B (although he wouldn't be able to switch to another weapon btw) and an attack where he spirals upwards with his spear which could be used for his up B.

Final Smashes could definitely be his Musou attacks. 1 of them is called Flying Dragon where he spirals forward with his spear surrounded by cyan aura causing multiple hits. Another Musou attack he has is an aerial attack called Dragon Wave where he throws his spear downwards causing a shockwave to the ground which could be a secondary Final Smash when he's in the air. If they wanted to keep on with giving DLC characters cutscenes in their Final Smashes, Zhao Yun also has a Musou attack called Heavenly Dragon Wave involving a flurry of slashes and also a rage Musou but I don't know how that would be set up in cinematic fashion. Otherwise, they could just make a move up like having every playable Shu character show up with Zhao Yun giving a super strong strike or something.

This is only for his DW8 appearance btw since Dynasty Warriors 8 Xtreme Legends Complete Edition (long name I know) was ported to the Switch and I don't know much about DW9 aside from it being considered the worst installment of the entire franchise and wasn't ported to the Switch. Here's a video showing his moveset in the game so you could at least see what I was talking about:

Spoiler: video

 

[Michael the Spikester]

It literally was just clarified that it was speculation.

Ah my bad thought that was just regarding Crash as FP6.

 

[Hadokeyblade]

The way I see it. Spirits deconfirm, that way if a spirit gets "upgraded" it's a legitimate surprise that'll fuel speculation.

 

[slrigeigdew]

Got a few questions for the people in the pro-Spirit upgrade camp that I am curious about.

If fighters 6 through 10 aren't Spirits would you still believe that Fighter 11 still has a good chance of being upgrade?

If Fighter 6 isn't a Spirit upgrade, would at all change your stance?

What was your stance on Spirit and Assist Trophy upgrades for Season 1? At least before Joker was revealed.

Lastly is your belief for thinking that Spirits are going to be upgrade because your most wanted is a Spirit or that is mostly due to you feeling like that is something likely gonna happen for Fighters Pass 2?

• Yes, it's not over 'til the fat lady sings (or until Sakurai deconfirms spirits)
• No, if there was an upgrade I'd expect it to be either Fighter 6 or Fighter 11
• I thought if we were getting a 1st party pick it'd definitely be a spirit upgrade. Assist trophies were never on the table.
• My most wanted are already in the game, I'm just holding on to the naive idea that Smash DLC is going to end with a bang and a spirit upgrade of a fan favorite would fit the bill.

 

[nessdeltarune00]

I am so goddamn sick of talking about Spirits. Not because of any particular character I want being one, but because of the fact that no matter where you are, here, Youtube, Twitter, Reddit, Resetera, GameFaqs, 4chan, the instant you even mention a character who is a spirit, that ONE guy is going to instantly say "WEEELLLLL ACKTUALLYYY, Lanky Kong can't be in because he's a Spirit" and it just leads to the exact same argument we had today. The one we have had literally thousands of times at this point. Its not productive or interesting, all it serves to do is limit discussion and focus on this stupid "rule" that may or may not be true. I don't care who 6 is, I'm just praying it's a spirit so we never have to have this argument again.

I wouldn’t hold my breath if I were you.

Also, strawmanning it as a “fanrule” doesn’t help matters when there is a bunch of evidence that points to them deconfirming.

 

[StarBot]

it's so expressive. So emotional.

To be fair, I unironically do think Byleth (well the female version anyways) can get really expression in the game

Maybe we should avoid talking about Spirits altogether. Every time we have a discussion on them, the thread gets all:

View attachment 259532

This is your... like... 11th time repeating this

No one was even getting aggressive and mad

Slightly disagreement isn't getting angry dude

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

It's time for a Scoliosis Jones prediction/desired choice DLC Season 2! Credit to N3ON for creating the image for me, I'm really pleased with how it turned out.

This is definitely mixed between desires and thoughts on what we could see. I'll go over each of the picks and point out some runners-up/other ideas I thought about:

Spoiler: Explanations

Dante- Self-explanatory. He's a highly popular video game character that can start things off strong, and is arguably one of the more notable Capcom characters absent from Ultimate currently. He's capable of the style-switching gameplay mechanic, as well as activating Devil Trigger...with his personality, he's definitely one of my favorite potential picks.

2B- I'll admit it...I haven't played Nier Automata yet, but once I finish Half-Life 2 it's my next game. 2B is essentially a gaming icon of the modern era. There's plenty for her to bring to Smash aside from the booty, and I frankly love her design. While her home game isn't on Switch, that hasn't really played as much of a role in terms of ruling out characters.

Crash- If I were in charge, I'd place Crash, a total gaming icon and classic mascot, in the middle to really spice things up. While 2B is a modern icon, and Dante has been proven to be somewhat of an "evergreen" icon, Crash is a true megaton pick. Fans of all ages would likely freak, and the matchup of Mario vs. Sonic vs. Crash in the same game would finally become a reality.

Travis Touchdown- Another character whose home game I never played (I may have an interest in playing No More Heroes at some point), but based on Sakurai's relationship with Suda I have to wonder if he's in the cards. As a "smaller" 3rd party, I think he's definitely in the running.

Lloyd Irving- Tales of Symphonia is one of my favorite games. I have nostalgia for playing through it, and the combat of Tales is something that I feel would translate well to Smash. Being the "Tales" pick of Sakurai, I can totally see him happening.

Sora- While Smash has never been one for finales, I think Sora would be an even larger megaton pick than Crash. If this is to be the final set of characters, I struggle to think of any particular character that would make a bigger splash. The gameplay of Kingdom Hearts is likely a good fit for Smash, as is the music (like, I'd **** myself if this was put into Smash).

I am aware that there may not be a "surprise" factor, as I wasn't exactly sure who to add. This is a mix of desire and expectation, though. Not 100% both, nor is it 100% going to happen!

Spoiler: Runners-up

Runners-up:

Heihachi- I think there's something to be said about the matchup of Mario v Ryu v Terry v Heihachi or Jin, but I have to wonder if making Heihachi more true to Tekken is what holds Sakurai back from implementing him. Otherwise, I'm a supporter.

A Nintendo character- While I don't think upgrades are going to happen, I think there's a possibility of a Nintendo pick. Thing is...I have no idea who to pick besides maybe Euden from Dragalia Lost. From what I've seen, he'd be pretty cool!

Phoenix Wright- As I see Spirits as non-eligible, I feel that Phoenix Wright would be a potential choice if Sakurai went for the more "Nintendo" pick. Ace Attorney is another series in my list of "games to play" especially since i picked up the physical games in the series.

Dark Souls- After some thinking, I get the feeling that Dark Souls could end up being Mii Fighter costumes. However, I do think a reverse meter mechanic regarding stamina could work for this particular character.

Bethesda- I thought about Bethesda games, but it would appear they're all rated around the "adult" range in Japan. We've yet to see something with that sort of rating make it into Smash, and with Doom Slayer getting the shaft, I have to wonder if anything else is coming from them to begin with.

Tracer- I absolutely love the idea of Tracer in Smash, and I think she'd work great in Smash. Honestly, she might make a good "didn't expect that!" pick. But I feel as though if Activision/Blizzard were going to discuss a pick, they'd opt for Crash just based on his standing as a character in the industry.

Gordon Freeman- To be honest, I have no idea if Valve would ever be contacted. But having just recently started Half-Life 2, Gordon seems like the type of character that, like Tracer, would be a "didn't expect that one!" pick. Granted...I'm not exactly sure how he'd play, or what he'd really do to stand out.

There are other choices I thought about, but these are just a few!

What do you think?

 

[pinshadow]

I wouldn’t hold my breath if I were you.

Also, strawmanning it as a “fanrule” doesn’t help matters when there is a bunch of evidence that points to them deconfirming.

All the "evidence" deconfirming spirits is entirely circumstantial and, at this point, can only be applied to the first pass anyway. Mewtwo and Lucas were in the exact same situation yet you keep disregarding it even though its basically the same.

Trophies are functionally the exact same thing as spirits, just representation for characters and items that aern't playable. Trophies get a model and a descriptions, spirits get a PNG and an event match. Mewtwo and Lucas weren't planned to be in Smash 4, so they both got trophies to represent them. They decided to do DLC after the game was finished, and decided to put in Mewtwo and Lucas even though they weren't originally planned. They didnt even remove the old trophies from the game.

Same situation in Ultimate. Only 5 DLC fighters are planned and decided before release, so characters who aern't going to be playable get spirits to represent them. They decide later to do 6 more DLC characters, and as such, any character they originally chose not to do is back on the table. This really isnt hard to understand.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

All the evidence

All the "evidence" deconfirming spirits is entirely circumstantial and, at this point, can only be applied to the first pass anyway. Mewtwo and Lucas were in the exact same situation yet you keep disregarding it even though its basically the same.

Trophies are functionally the exact same thing as spirits, just representation for characters and items that aern't playable. Trophies get a model and a descriptions, spirits get a PNG and an event match. Mewtwo and Lucas weren't planned to be in Smash 4, so they both got trophies to represent them. They decided to do DLC after the game was finished, and decided to put in Mewtwo and Lucas even though they weren't originally planned. They didnt even remove the old trophies from the game.

Same situation in Ultimate. Only 5 DLC fighters are planned and decided before release, so characters who aern't going to be playable get spirits to represent them. They decide later to do 6 more DLC characters, and as such, any character they originally chose not to do is back on the table. This really isnt hard to understand.

I'm not going to get into it, but Spirits aren't the same "functionally" as trophies. One was a 3D model that you could look at and read about, the other is a .png that has an entire scenario attached to it in order to unlock.

Similarly, they're added to the game over time to coincide with particular events, which also makes them quite different from trophies.

I think it's at the very least equally "circumstantial" to assume Base Spirits are suddenly back on the table. If you read my post from earlier today, what my "spirit argument" is based on equally applies to base game spirits, as it has nothing to do with timing.

However, I'll cut it off there as I think that discussion has run its course.

 

[Gamma Ray]

Yeah I don't think anyone is super angry over this spirit argument or anything, people just disagree and that's fine.

Also, strawmanning it as a “fanrule” doesn’t help matters

That's what it literally is though, a fanrule. It's not like Sakurai put a list of rules for us on paper and that "spirits deconfirm" was one of them.

 

[StarBot]

Trophies are functionally the exact same thing as spirits,

This one sentence is honestly proof that how much Spirits was kinda a flop, if people honest to God believe this

Littearly Sakurai stated the opposite in the November 1st Direct

this fourm is now trying a little too hard to set itself for dispoint lmao

 

[nessdeltarune00]

All the evidence

All the "evidence" deconfirming spirits is entirely circumstantial and, at this point, can only be applied to the first pass anyway. Mewtwo and Lucas were in the exact same situation yet you keep disregarding it even though its basically the same.

Trophies are functionally the exact same thing as spirits, just representation for characters and items that aern't playable. Trophies get a model and a descriptions, spirits get a PNG and an event match. Mewtwo and Lucas weren't planned to be in Smash 4, so they both got trophies to represent them. They decided to do DLC after the game was finished, and decided to put in Mewtwo and Lucas even though they weren't originally planned. They didnt even remove the old trophies from the game.

Same situation in Ultimate. Only 5 DLC fighters are planned and decided before release, so characters who aern't going to be playable get spirits to represent them. They decide later to do 6 more DLC characters, and as such, any character they originally chose not to do is back on the table. This really isnt hard to understand.

Its pretty obvious at this point they are completely different from trophies. As in, they actually effect the gameplay. And as I stated earlier, it is clear that they are viewed as more than a “PNG”.

Also, all of the DLC newcomers spanning back to 4 have been third parties/shill picks.

Care to explain why that is conveniently the only potential ones that are missing Spirits? Last person I asked this completely dodged this question, could you have an answer to this?

 

[Deleted member]

Broke: talking about spirit promotions to argue about whether if spirits deconfirm or not



Woke: talking about spirit promotions to keep people from talking about Fire Emblem

 

[Lionfranky]

We have Bayonetta in the game, the gore in the original games isn't the main reason why those characters weren't chosen.

Japanese market. As much as non Japanese markets bring more money, Nintendo still has to cater to Japanese market. I know it sucks, but that's what's going on right now. Master Chief is at least recognizeable even in Japan to certain degree due to amount of effort Microsoft put in there. Halo anime, one shot manga, etc... That's why he has shot along with good relationship between Microsoft and Nintendo.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

I'm just going to say this one more time.

Please, for the love of god, stop labeling everything in speculation as a "fan rule".

It may depend on who is saying it and how it's being articulated, but I have not once said that "Spirits disconfirm" is a "fan rule". It is a conclusion I have come to based on what I've seen as evidence from precedent. It is literally the definition of an informed opinion or speculation...otherwise known as what this forum was made for.

If you want to just cast things you don't agree with as a "fan rule" then go ahead and continue to do so. But it really has gotten old fast, because it just seems as though that's how it's being used. I don't think anybody here seriously thinks it's a rule that has to guide all of speculation.

If you ask me, it shouldn't be ignored or totally believed. I could just as easily say, "Popularity gets a character in? Fan rule! We get characters that aren't the definition of popular all the time!"

You want to talk about shutting down conversation? "Fan rule!" will do it.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

It's time for a Scoliosis Jones prediction/desired choice DLC Season 2! Credit to N3ON for creating the image for me, I'm really pleased with how it turned out.

This is definitely mixed between desires and thoughts on what we could see. I'll go over each of the picks and point out some runners-up/other ideas I thought about:

Spoiler: Explanations

Dante- Self-explanatory. He's a highly popular video game character that can start things off strong, and is arguably one of the more notable Capcom characters absent from Ultimate currently. He's capable of the style-switching gameplay mechanic, as well as activating Devil Trigger...with his personality, he's definitely one of my favorite potential picks.

2B- I'll admit it...I haven't played Nier Automata yet, but once I finish Half-Life 2 it's my next game. 2B is essentially a gaming icon of the modern era. There's plenty for her to bring to Smash aside from the booty, and I frankly love her design. While her home game isn't on Switch, that hasn't really played as much of a role in terms of ruling out characters.

Crash- If I were in charge, I'd place Crash, a total gaming icon and classic mascot, in the middle to really spice things up. While 2B is a modern icon, and Dante has been proven to be somewhat of an "evergreen" icon, Crash is a true megaton pick. Fans of all ages would likely freak, and the matchup of Mario vs. Sonic vs. Crash in the same game would finally become a reality.

Travis Touchdown- Another character whose home game I never played (I may have an interest in playing No More Heroes at some point), but based on Sakurai's relationship with Suda I have to wonder if he's in the cards. As a "smaller" 3rd party, I think he's definitely in the running.

Lloyd Irving- Tales of Symphonia is one of my favorite games. I have nostalgia for playing through it, and the combat of Tales is something that I feel would translate well to Smash. Being the "Tales" pick of Sakurai, I can totally see him happening.

Sora- While Smash has never been one for finales, I think Sora would be an even larger megaton pick than Crash. If this is to be the final set of characters, I struggle to think of any particular character that would make a bigger splash. The gameplay of Kingdom Hearts is likely a good fit for Smash, as is the music (like, I'd **** myself if this was put into Smash).

I am aware that there may not be a "surprise" factor, as I wasn't exactly sure who to add. This is a mix of desire and expectation, though. Not 100% both, nor is it 100% going to happen!

Spoiler: Runners-up

Runners-up:

Heihachi- I think there's something to be said about the matchup of Mario v Ryu v Terry v Heihachi or Jin, but I have to wonder if making Heihachi more true to Tekken is what holds Sakurai back from implementing him. Otherwise, I'm a supporter.

A Nintendo character- While I don't think upgrades are going to happen, I think there's a possibility of a Nintendo pick. Thing is...I have no idea who to pick besides maybe Euden from Dragalia Lost. From what I've seen, he'd be pretty cool!

Phoenix Wright- As I see Spirits as non-eligible, I feel that Phoenix Wright would be a potential choice if Sakurai went for the more "Nintendo" pick. Ace Attorney is another series in my list of "games to play" especially since i picked up the physical games in the series.

Dark Souls- After some thinking, I get the feeling that Dark Souls could end up being Mii Fighter costumes. However, I do think a reverse meter mechanic regarding stamina could work for this particular character.

Bethesda- I thought about Bethesda games, but it would appear they're all rated around the "adult" range in Japan. We've yet to see something with that sort of rating make it into Smash, and with Doom Slayer getting the shaft, I have to wonder if anything else is coming from them to begin with.

Tracer- I absolutely love the idea of Tracer in Smash, and I think she'd work great in Smash. Honestly, she might make a good "didn't expect that!" pick. But I feel as though if Activision/Blizzard were going to discuss a pick, they'd opt for Crash just based on his standing as a character in the industry.

Gordon Freeman- To be honest, I have no idea if Valve would ever be contacted. But having just recently started Half-Life 2, Gordon seems like the type of character that, like Tracer, would be a "didn't expect that one!" pick. Granted...I'm not exactly sure how he'd play, or what he'd really do to stand out.

There are other choices I thought about, but these are just a few!

What do you think?

2B and Crash sells it for me.

 

[Cosmic77]

This is your... like... 11th time repeating this

No one was even getting aggressive and mad

Slightly disagreement isn't getting angry dude

Maybe not to the extent of that gif I posted, but I pick up on a lot of passive aggressiveness whenever a discussion on Spirits goes on for too long. People get frustrated because some points aren't interpreted the same way they see them, and there's seemingly a counterargument for everything.

The conversation will keep going in circles until the last character reveal unless something outright confirms either belief. That's probably why I should work harder on ignoring posts involving Spirits. Chances are, I'm not changing anyone's mind. All I'd be contributing to is starting the same tired argument.