Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[King Sonnn DeDeDoo]

Seems Crash ain't as likely as I thought it seems...Damn...

Honestly I think his chances are still pretty good all things considered, I just don’t think he’s a guarantee

 

[nessdeltarune00]

Seems Crash ain't as likely as I thought it seems...Damn...

Nothing has changed for Crash’s chances.

He is likely with or without leakers imo.

 

[Sysreq]

Its either the “fanrule” card, or the “B-BUT SAKURAI CAN CHANGE HIS MIND” card.

Thanks for giving the most predictable answer possible.

Bruh no one's answer is good enough for you apparently. Several people are pretty much just saying "Dang we all got BTFO by Byleth since we were all soooo sure FP1 was all third party, maybe we shouldn't be sooo sure of ourselves again."

 

[nessdeltarune00]

Also there is a decent chance that the selection process for FP2 where Nintendo purposes a fighter to Sakurai then Sakurai decides if he can make it work or not. So that is another hurdle that Crash might have to go through.

http://www.nintendolife.com/news/20...ed_dlc_fighters_for_super_smash_bros_ultimate

Also I wonder what weird purposes for characters Nintendo had for Sakurai that Sakurai had to reject for one reason or another?

People literally used this as an argument against Banjo last year.

 

[CapitaineCrash]

Honestly I don't really see Crash as a "gaming icon". His first 3 games where huge success, but he never have a really huge influence in the industry like the other huge Playstation games (Gran Turismo, Tomb raider, Resident evil, Metal gear solid, Final fantasy 7). He was also completely forgotten for like 15 years because he didn't have any games, and his other game were mediocre. Sure he's kind of back because of the N.sane trilogy, but I don't know, he might just die out again if his game restart to be mediocre.

I don't think he have no chance to be in Smash, I just think that a lot of the Smash fanabse is over estimating his influence and how big he is.

 

[slrigeigdew]

All this talk about Crash has reminded me of this post so might as well respond to this before I forget:

It's time for a Scoliosis Jones prediction/desired choice DLC Season 2! Credit to N3ON for creating the image for me, I'm really pleased with how it turned out.

View attachment 259541

This is definitely mixed between desires and thoughts on what we could see. I'll go over each of the picks and point out some runners-up/other ideas I thought about:

Spoiler: Explanations

Dante- Self-explanatory. He's a highly popular video game character that can start things off strong, and is arguably one of the more notable Capcom characters absent from Ultimate currently. He's capable of the style-switching gameplay mechanic, as well as activating Devil Trigger...with his personality, he's definitely one of my favorite potential picks.

2B- I'll admit it...I haven't played Nier Automata yet, but once I finish Half-Life 2 it's my next game. 2B is essentially a gaming icon of the modern era. There's plenty for her to bring to Smash aside from the booty, and I frankly love her design. While her home game isn't on Switch, that hasn't really played as much of a role in terms of ruling out characters.

Crash- If I were in charge, I'd place Crash, a total gaming icon and classic mascot, in the middle to really spice things up. While 2B is a modern icon, and Dante has been proven to be somewhat of an "evergreen" icon, Crash is a true megaton pick. Fans of all ages would likely freak, and the matchup of Mario vs. Sonic vs. Crash in the same game would finally become a reality.

Travis Touchdown- Another character whose home game I never played (I may have an interest in playing No More Heroes at some point), but based on Sakurai's relationship with Suda I have to wonder if he's in the cards. As a "smaller" 3rd party, I think he's definitely in the running.

Lloyd Irving- Tales of Symphonia is one of my favorite games. I have nostalgia for playing through it, and the combat of Tales is something that I feel would translate well to Smash. Being the "Tales" pick of Sakurai, I can totally see him happening.

Sora- While Smash has never been one for finales, I think Sora would be an even larger megaton pick than Crash. If this is to be the final set of characters, I struggle to think of any particular character that would make a bigger splash. The gameplay of Kingdom Hearts is likely a good fit for Smash, as is the music (like, I'd **** myself if this was put into Smash).

I am aware that there may not be a "surprise" factor, as I wasn't exactly sure who to add. This is a mix of desire and expectation, though. Not 100% both, nor is it 100% going to happen!

Spoiler: Runners-up

Runners-up:

Heihachi- I think there's something to be said about the matchup of Mario v Ryu v Terry v Heihachi or Jin, but I have to wonder if making Heihachi more true to Tekken is what holds Sakurai back from implementing him. Otherwise, I'm a supporter.

A Nintendo character- While I don't think upgrades are going to happen, I think there's a possibility of a Nintendo pick. Thing is...I have no idea who to pick besides maybe Euden from Dragalia Lost. From what I've seen, he'd be pretty cool!

Phoenix Wright- As I see Spirits as non-eligible, I feel that Phoenix Wright would be a potential choice if Sakurai went for the more "Nintendo" pick. Ace Attorney is another series in my list of "games to play" especially since i picked up the physical games in the series.

Dark Souls- After some thinking, I get the feeling that Dark Souls could end up being Mii Fighter costumes. However, I do think a reverse meter mechanic regarding stamina could work for this particular character.

Bethesda- I thought about Bethesda games, but it would appear they're all rated around the "adult" range in Japan. We've yet to see something with that sort of rating make it into Smash, and with Doom Slayer getting the shaft, I have to wonder if anything else is coming from them to begin with.

Tracer- I absolutely love the idea of Tracer in Smash, and I think she'd work great in Smash. Honestly, she might make a good "didn't expect that!" pick. But I feel as though if Activision/Blizzard were going to discuss a pick, they'd opt for Crash just based on his standing as a character in the industry.

Gordon Freeman- To be honest, I have no idea if Valve would ever be contacted. But having just recently started Half-Life 2, Gordon seems like the type of character that, like Tracer, would be a "didn't expect that one!" pick. Granted...I'm not exactly sure how he'd play, or what he'd really do to stand out.

There are other choices I thought about, but these are just a few!

What do you think?

Dante- Not my first pick for Capcom but an acceptable choice. Also props for using a different pic of Dante instead of the image EVERYONE uses.

2B- Only thing holding her back is the lack of a Switch Port. I have no attachment to this character but she seems cool.

Crash- Speaking of Crash, he would be a perfect addition and I'm surprised he isn't in already. I'll be honest tho, Crash sticks out here like a sore thumb even more than Banjo in the first fighter's pass lol

Travis Touchdown- Was more optimistic about his chances in the Season 1. Not so much in Season 2.

Lloyd- The absence of the lloyd mii costume so far can only mean one of two things, one of which is guaranteed to cause alot of salt (who am I kidding, both choices are gonna cause salt)

Sora- Only thing holding him back is copyright hell between Disney and Square.

Overall, a good selection of interesting, albeit safe picks. It draws some parallels to the first Fighter's Pass in that the characters are highly requested and recognizable to people outside of the Smash community.However, I think your list of runner ups have more of a "surprise" factor and are thus more likely to be chosen.

 

[Droodle]

Demand or not I can still honestly imagine Sakurai choosing Crash as among the six due to not only being an video game icon but obviously being fun to play since as he stated "Its more important for a character to be fun".

Yeah, but Sakurai can make a literal plant fun to play; so that statement is pretty moot. I doubt that he makes "unfun" to play characters.

I agree with Crash being the frontrunner for a Western rep now (but he isn't a guarantee mind you). There's tons of popular yet unrepresented series still left.

I would still expect the majority (4-5 characters) to be of Japanese origin though. Sakurai has made it clear he views Smash as a way to give a "shout out" to japanese series, both big (Dragon Quest) and small (Fatal Fury/KoF).

Speculation will get really interesting when we inevitably start getting more and more "deserving/popular" series in Smash as Spirits.

It's also going to be interesting to see who "the opener" for this pass is. They tend to start with the most "universally liked" character, that is popular both inside and outside Japan.

I don't think Crash will start out the second fighters pass (he seems more like an E3 choice for me). I think Dante has good potential to start off this next pass: popular, flashy, relevant. Even people who don't like DMC will want to try him.

If they want to make the fanbase explode, they'd start with someone like Sora; who pretty much has the same strengths as Dante except is quite a lot more requested. But Sora is Sora, so it's impossible to really tell his chances.

 

[nessdeltarune00]

Because they were planned to be in since before release? Again, what is so hard to understand about this. Piranah Plant didn't have a base game spirit because they were planned as DLC. Three Houses didn't have an event because they were planned as DLC. Base-game spirits were there because they weren't planned as DLC, and they originally planned to do only the 5 pass characters. They've decided to do more, so those characters are back on the table.

That still doesn’t change the fact that it conveniently would only allow for third parties/potential upcoming games if it does indeed check out, when every single newcomer we’ve has is either a third party or shill pick, spanning back to 4.

 

[TMNTSSB4]

It's time for a Scoliosis Jones prediction/desired choice DLC Season 2! Credit to N3ON for creating the image for me, I'm really pleased with how it turned out.

View attachment 259541

This is definitely mixed between desires and thoughts on what we could see. I'll go over each of the picks and point out some runners-up/other ideas I thought about:

Spoiler: Explanations

Dante- Self-explanatory. He's a highly popular video game character that can start things off strong, and is arguably one of the more notable Capcom characters absent from Ultimate currently. He's capable of the style-switching gameplay mechanic, as well as activating Devil Trigger...with his personality, he's definitely one of my favorite potential picks.

2B- I'll admit it...I haven't played Nier Automata yet, but once I finish Half-Life 2 it's my next game. 2B is essentially a gaming icon of the modern era. There's plenty for her to bring to Smash aside from the booty, and I frankly love her design. While her home game isn't on Switch, that hasn't really played as much of a role in terms of ruling out characters.

Crash- If I were in charge, I'd place Crash, a total gaming icon and classic mascot, in the middle to really spice things up. While 2B is a modern icon, and Dante has been proven to be somewhat of an "evergreen" icon, Crash is a true megaton pick. Fans of all ages would likely freak, and the matchup of Mario vs. Sonic vs. Crash in the same game would finally become a reality.

Travis Touchdown- Another character whose home game I never played (I may have an interest in playing No More Heroes at some point), but based on Sakurai's relationship with Suda I have to wonder if he's in the cards. As a "smaller" 3rd party, I think he's definitely in the running.

Lloyd Irving- Tales of Symphonia is one of my favorite games. I have nostalgia for playing through it, and the combat of Tales is something that I feel would translate well to Smash. Being the "Tales" pick of Sakurai, I can totally see him happening.

Sora- While Smash has never been one for finales, I think Sora would be an even larger megaton pick than Crash. If this is to be the final set of characters, I struggle to think of any particular character that would make a bigger splash. The gameplay of Kingdom Hearts is likely a good fit for Smash, as is the music (like, I'd **** myself if this was put into Smash).

I am aware that there may not be a "surprise" factor, as I wasn't exactly sure who to add. This is a mix of desire and expectation, though. Not 100% both, nor is it 100% going to happen!

Spoiler: Runners-up

Runners-up:

Heihachi- I think there's something to be said about the matchup of Mario v Ryu v Terry v Heihachi or Jin, but I have to wonder if making Heihachi more true to Tekken is what holds Sakurai back from implementing him. Otherwise, I'm a supporter.

A Nintendo character- While I don't think upgrades are going to happen, I think there's a possibility of a Nintendo pick. Thing is...I have no idea who to pick besides maybe Euden from Dragalia Lost. From what I've seen, he'd be pretty cool!

Phoenix Wright- As I see Spirits as non-eligible, I feel that Phoenix Wright would be a potential choice if Sakurai went for the more "Nintendo" pick. Ace Attorney is another series in my list of "games to play" especially since i picked up the physical games in the series.

Dark Souls- After some thinking, I get the feeling that Dark Souls could end up being Mii Fighter costumes. However, I do think a reverse meter mechanic regarding stamina could work for this particular character.

Bethesda- I thought about Bethesda games, but it would appear they're all rated around the "adult" range in Japan. We've yet to see something with that sort of rating make it into Smash, and with Doom Slayer getting the shaft, I have to wonder if anything else is coming from them to begin with.

Tracer- I absolutely love the idea of Tracer in Smash, and I think she'd work great in Smash. Honestly, she might make a good "didn't expect that!" pick. But I feel as though if Activision/Blizzard were going to discuss a pick, they'd opt for Crash just based on his standing as a character in the industry.

Gordon Freeman- To be honest, I have no idea if Valve would ever be contacted. But having just recently started Half-Life 2, Gordon seems like the type of character that, like Tracer, would be a "didn't expect that one!" pick. Granted...I'm not exactly sure how he'd play, or what he'd really do to stand out.

There are other choices I thought about, but these are just a few!

What do you think?

A Nintendo, 2B, and Crash I definitely see as possibilities

 

[nessdeltarune00]

It's time for a Scoliosis Jones prediction/desired choice DLC Season 2! Credit to N3ON for creating the image for me, I'm really pleased with how it turned out.

View attachment 259541

This is definitely mixed between desires and thoughts on what we could see. I'll go over each of the picks and point out some runners-up/other ideas I thought about:

Spoiler: Explanations

Dante- Self-explanatory. He's a highly popular video game character that can start things off strong, and is arguably one of the more notable Capcom characters absent from Ultimate currently. He's capable of the style-switching gameplay mechanic, as well as activating Devil Trigger...with his personality, he's definitely one of my favorite potential picks.

2B- I'll admit it...I haven't played Nier Automata yet, but once I finish Half-Life 2 it's my next game. 2B is essentially a gaming icon of the modern era. There's plenty for her to bring to Smash aside from the booty, and I frankly love her design. While her home game isn't on Switch, that hasn't really played as much of a role in terms of ruling out characters.

Crash- If I were in charge, I'd place Crash, a total gaming icon and classic mascot, in the middle to really spice things up. While 2B is a modern icon, and Dante has been proven to be somewhat of an "evergreen" icon, Crash is a true megaton pick. Fans of all ages would likely freak, and the matchup of Mario vs. Sonic vs. Crash in the same game would finally become a reality.

Travis Touchdown- Another character whose home game I never played (I may have an interest in playing No More Heroes at some point), but based on Sakurai's relationship with Suda I have to wonder if he's in the cards. As a "smaller" 3rd party, I think he's definitely in the running.

Lloyd Irving- Tales of Symphonia is one of my favorite games. I have nostalgia for playing through it, and the combat of Tales is something that I feel would translate well to Smash. Being the "Tales" pick of Sakurai, I can totally see him happening.

Sora- While Smash has never been one for finales, I think Sora would be an even larger megaton pick than Crash. If this is to be the final set of characters, I struggle to think of any particular character that would make a bigger splash. The gameplay of Kingdom Hearts is likely a good fit for Smash, as is the music (like, I'd **** myself if this was put into Smash).

I am aware that there may not be a "surprise" factor, as I wasn't exactly sure who to add. This is a mix of desire and expectation, though. Not 100% both, nor is it 100% going to happen!

Spoiler: Runners-up

Runners-up:

Heihachi- I think there's something to be said about the matchup of Mario v Ryu v Terry v Heihachi or Jin, but I have to wonder if making Heihachi more true to Tekken is what holds Sakurai back from implementing him. Otherwise, I'm a supporter.

A Nintendo character- While I don't think upgrades are going to happen, I think there's a possibility of a Nintendo pick. Thing is...I have no idea who to pick besides maybe Euden from Dragalia Lost. From what I've seen, he'd be pretty cool!

Phoenix Wright- As I see Spirits as non-eligible, I feel that Phoenix Wright would be a potential choice if Sakurai went for the more "Nintendo" pick. Ace Attorney is another series in my list of "games to play" especially since i picked up the physical games in the series.

Dark Souls- After some thinking, I get the feeling that Dark Souls could end up being Mii Fighter costumes. However, I do think a reverse meter mechanic regarding stamina could work for this particular character.

Bethesda- I thought about Bethesda games, but it would appear they're all rated around the "adult" range in Japan. We've yet to see something with that sort of rating make it into Smash, and with Doom Slayer getting the shaft, I have to wonder if anything else is coming from them to begin with.

Tracer- I absolutely love the idea of Tracer in Smash, and I think she'd work great in Smash. Honestly, she might make a good "didn't expect that!" pick. But I feel as though if Activision/Blizzard were going to discuss a pick, they'd opt for Crash just based on his standing as a character in the industry.

Gordon Freeman- To be honest, I have no idea if Valve would ever be contacted. But having just recently started Half-Life 2, Gordon seems like the type of character that, like Tracer, would be a "didn't expect that one!" pick. Granted...I'm not exactly sure how he'd play, or what he'd really do to stand out.

There are other choices I thought about, but these are just a few!

What do you think?

Go into it completely blind.

Just know that game truly is life changing. That is something that I can rarely say for any video game.

 

[Droodle]

The funny thing is that I haven't seen anyone correctly predict the first FP. Yeah there have been people who got 2-3 right, and 1 that even got 4; but no one predicted all 5 characters that we got.

I think the same thing will happen here. Most people will likely get 2-3 characters, but the other 3 will be out of the left field picks.

 

[Lamperouge]

It's time for a Scoliosis Jones prediction/desired choice DLC Season 2! Credit to N3ON for creating the image for me, I'm really pleased with how it turned out.

View attachment 259541

This is definitely mixed between desires and thoughts on what we could see. I'll go over each of the picks and point out some runners-up/other ideas I thought about:

Spoiler: Explanations

Dante- Self-explanatory. He's a highly popular video game character that can start things off strong, and is arguably one of the more notable Capcom characters absent from Ultimate currently. He's capable of the style-switching gameplay mechanic, as well as activating Devil Trigger...with his personality, he's definitely one of my favorite potential picks.

2B- I'll admit it...I haven't played Nier Automata yet, but once I finish Half-Life 2 it's my next game. 2B is essentially a gaming icon of the modern era. There's plenty for her to bring to Smash aside from the booty, and I frankly love her design. While her home game isn't on Switch, that hasn't really played as much of a role in terms of ruling out characters.

Crash- If I were in charge, I'd place Crash, a total gaming icon and classic mascot, in the middle to really spice things up. While 2B is a modern icon, and Dante has been proven to be somewhat of an "evergreen" icon, Crash is a true megaton pick. Fans of all ages would likely freak, and the matchup of Mario vs. Sonic vs. Crash in the same game would finally become a reality.

Travis Touchdown- Another character whose home game I never played (I may have an interest in playing No More Heroes at some point), but based on Sakurai's relationship with Suda I have to wonder if he's in the cards. As a "smaller" 3rd party, I think he's definitely in the running.

Lloyd Irving- Tales of Symphonia is one of my favorite games. I have nostalgia for playing through it, and the combat of Tales is something that I feel would translate well to Smash. Being the "Tales" pick of Sakurai, I can totally see him happening.

Sora- While Smash has never been one for finales, I think Sora would be an even larger megaton pick than Crash. If this is to be the final set of characters, I struggle to think of any particular character that would make a bigger splash. The gameplay of Kingdom Hearts is likely a good fit for Smash, as is the music (like, I'd **** myself if this was put into Smash).

I am aware that there may not be a "surprise" factor, as I wasn't exactly sure who to add. This is a mix of desire and expectation, though. Not 100% both, nor is it 100% going to happen!

Spoiler: Runners-up

Runners-up:

Heihachi- I think there's something to be said about the matchup of Mario v Ryu v Terry v Heihachi or Jin, but I have to wonder if making Heihachi more true to Tekken is what holds Sakurai back from implementing him. Otherwise, I'm a supporter.

A Nintendo character- While I don't think upgrades are going to happen, I think there's a possibility of a Nintendo pick. Thing is...I have no idea who to pick besides maybe Euden from Dragalia Lost. From what I've seen, he'd be pretty cool!

Phoenix Wright- As I see Spirits as non-eligible, I feel that Phoenix Wright would be a potential choice if Sakurai went for the more "Nintendo" pick. Ace Attorney is another series in my list of "games to play" especially since i picked up the physical games in the series.

Dark Souls- After some thinking, I get the feeling that Dark Souls could end up being Mii Fighter costumes. However, I do think a reverse meter mechanic regarding stamina could work for this particular character.

Bethesda- I thought about Bethesda games, but it would appear they're all rated around the "adult" range in Japan. We've yet to see something with that sort of rating make it into Smash, and with Doom Slayer getting the shaft, I have to wonder if anything else is coming from them to begin with.

Tracer- I absolutely love the idea of Tracer in Smash, and I think she'd work great in Smash. Honestly, she might make a good "didn't expect that!" pick. But I feel as though if Activision/Blizzard were going to discuss a pick, they'd opt for Crash just based on his standing as a character in the industry.

Gordon Freeman- To be honest, I have no idea if Valve would ever be contacted. But having just recently started Half-Life 2, Gordon seems like the type of character that, like Tracer, would be a "didn't expect that one!" pick. Granted...I'm not exactly sure how he'd play, or what he'd really do to stand out.

There are other choices I thought about, but these are just a few!

What do you think?

>Dante and 2B

I could live with the rest of your choices.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

I don't think Crash will start out the second fighters pass (he seems more like an E3 choice for me). I think Dante has good potential to start off this next pass: popular, flashy, relevant. Even people who don't like DMC will want to try him.

That's assuming FP6 gets announced at E3 which it looks like probably is the case.

 

[Droodle]

That's assuming FP6 gets announced at E3 which it looks like probably is the case.

I think it'll be slightly earlier if I'm honestly speaking. I think we'll probably know who FP 6 by April; but you never know.

That said I still stand by the idea that if Crash would get in, he wouldn't be the 1st character (imo). We may very well get a Fighter 6 + 7 dual reveals at E3, and Crash ends up being Fighter 7, while someone else is 6.

 

[RileyXY1]

That's assuming FP6 gets announced at E3 which it looks like probably is the case.

I think that's a bad move sales-wise.

 

[GoodGrief741]

Do you have any counter arguments besides “W-WELL SAKURAI COULD!!!!” for anything that is presented as hits against Spirits?

Because that, and plugging your ears and screaming “FAN RULE FAN RULE FAN RULE” is all I have seen from thte pro Spirit camp. Its kind of funny how predictable it is at this point

I mean, if you can't counter the fact that Sakurai could add Spirits as fighters, then your entire argument falls apart. It's that predictable because it's the logical response to your "evidence", and you're doing nothing to counter that counter-argument.

Got a few questions for the people in the pro-Spirit upgrade camp that I am curious about.

If fighters 6 through 10 aren't Spirits would you still believe that Fighter 11 still has a good chance of being upgrade?

If Fighter 6 isn't a Spirit upgrade, would at all change your stance?

What was your stance on Spirit and Assist Trophy upgrades for Season 1? At least before Joker was revealed.

Lastly is your belief for thinking that Spirits are going to be upgrade because your most wanted is a Spirit or that is mostly due to you feeling like that is something likely gonna happen for Fighters Pass 2?

After Byleth? Yeah, even if Fighters 6 through 10 aren't Spirits, experience has taught me that patterns can be broken.

Fighter 6 not being a Spirit won't change my stance.

My stance on upgrades for Vol 1 was that they were possible, pre- and post-Joker. As time went on, I start waning on it, both due to expecting all to be third parties (took the L on that one) and because the timing of DLC selection did seem to be alongside base game discussions.

I don't have a most wanted, and while I'd like to see Spirits promoted, it's not going to make or break the Pass for me. I just think it's likely.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

I think it'll be slightly earlier if I'm honestly speaking. I think we'll probably know who FP 6 by April; but you never know.

That said I still stand by the idea that if Crash would get in, he wouldn't be the 1st character (imo). We may very well get a Fighter 6 + 7 dual reveals at E3, and Crash ends up being Fighter 7, while someone else is 6.

April would be great. That's when my birthday is.

That and getting to see Antlers would be a great month.

 

[nessdeltarune00]

>Dante and 2B

View attachment 259566

I could live with the rest of your choices.

>Implying you wouldn’t want DMC and Nier music in Smash.

 

[Lamperouge]

>Implying you wouldn’t want DMC and Nier music in Smash.

I was implying that I wanted DMC and NieR content in Smash, actually.

 

[Krankees]

That's assuming FP6 gets announced at E3 which it looks like probably is the case.

I say we'll at the very least know who FP6 is before E3. It's possible to get just the character revealed and nothing else before E3 like with Joker at TGA.

 

[TMNTSSB4]

I say we'll at the very least know who FP6 is before E3. It's possible to get just the character revealed and nothing else before E3 like with Joker at TGA.

imagine if they had a better trailer than the two trailers Joker had

 

[nessdeltarune00]

I was implying that I wanted DMC and NieR content in Smash, actually.

Oh. My bad, lol.

 

[N3ON]

Crash topped in polls in japans smash 64 voting poll

Even beating sonic and megaman

I think hes ugliest mascot character in existence but I wont be surprised if he gets in

He most certainly did not, he got four votes, which puts him almost at the bottom of that poll.

Sonic and Mega Man were below him, but then they eventually performed better on the next poll, which resulted in their inclusion. Crash, presumably, did not, given it wasn't 2000 anymore, and his popularity had taken a nosedive in the following years.

There's some high-key narrative twisting going on here.

After gettingandfollowed byandI would say Crash is almost certainly guarantee. I'll be surprised if he doesn't.

Putting aside the leap in logic, from Sonic to Banjo getting all those characters took eleven years over three different rosters.

Back in smash 4, I've always heard demand on the internet for . Never heard demand for crash until recently.

Crash demand kicked up maybe one year after Banjo demand rose from the dead.

 

[Us3inMN]

Soooooo what's all this talk about Crash? Was there a "leak"?

Unrelated, but why was Ridley and K. Rool so wanted? Is it a nostalgia thing?

 

[GoodGrief741]

Soooooo what's all this talk about Crash? Was there a "leak"?

Unrelated, but why was Ridley and K. Rool so wanted? Is it a nostalgia thing?

Probably because they're the main villains in two classic and beloved series, they have great designs and, turns out, great moveset potential.

And yeah, a guy who called Byleth for Fighter 5 said Crash is 6.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Soooooo what's all this talk about Crash? Was there a "leak"?

Unrelated, but why was Ridley and K. Rool so wanted? Is it a nostalgia thing?

I think Zippo gave his opinion and people jumped on the hype train. Kinda like what happened with Jon a while back.

 

[Deleted member]

And yeah, a guy who called Byleth for Fighter 5 said Crash is 6.

To be fair, why didn't he step forward and say that Byleth was 5 after all? I mean...as a leaker, he would've spilled the beans for him to gain credit.

 

[Captain Shwampy]

He most certainly did not, he got four votes, which puts him almost at the bottom of that poll.

Sonic and Mega Man were below him, but then they eventually performed better on the next poll, which resulted in their inclusion. Crash, presumably, did not, given it wasn't 2000 anymore, and his popularity had taken a nosedive in the following years.

There's some high-key narrative twisting going on here.


Putting aside the leap in logic, from Sonic to Banjo getting all those characters took eleven years over three different rosters.


Crash demand kicked up maybe one year after Banjo demand rose from the dead.

I remembered wrong
https://www.nintendo.co.jp/n01/n64/software/nus_p_nalj/smash/PostResult3.html

Characters not belonging to Nintendo
1. Chocobo
2. Doraemon (Doraemon tier lol)
3. Bomberman
4. Crash Bandicoot
5. Sonic
5. Megaman

I guess 3rd parties werent really requested alot back then until Melee

Funny enough all of these aside from Crash are in smash
just some not playable


and doraemon

 

[Deleted member]

I remembered wrong
https://www.nintendo.co.jp/n01/n64/software/nus_p_nalj/smash/PostResult3.html

I guess 3rd parties werent really requested alot back then until Melee

Reading this now, read the Fire Emblem section and was QUITE surprised that Ogma of all people was that requested. Over someone like Seliph(?), Sigurd, and Leif.

 

[Jomosensual]

To be fair, why didn't he step forward and say that Byleth was 5 after all? I mean...as a leaker, he would've spilled the beans for him to gain credit.

One theory going around is that whoever was behind the account tweeted in bulk a ton of predictions, followed nobody or set the account on private so nobody could find it, and then deleted all the wrong ones. I'm leaning towards that being what happened

 

[Deleted member]

One theory going around is that whoever was behind the account tweeted in bulk a ton of predictions, followed nobody or set the account on private so nobody could find it, and then deleted all the wrong ones. I'm leaning towards that being what happened

Come to think of it...he would have spilled the beans to go out with a bang.

 

[Us3inMN]

Guys, Sakurai is actually being held hostage. In every Direct, they hold him at gunpoint.

Byleth wasn't his decision, here's proof:

Spoiler: Sakurai needs our help

 

[Deleted member]

Guys, Sakurai is actually being held hostage. In every Direct, they hold him at gunpoint.

Byleth wasn't his decision, here's proof:

Spoiler: Sakurai needs our help

View attachment 259571

I'll give you points for trying. Bigyan ng jacket.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Reading this now, read the Fire Emblem section and was QUITE surprised that Ogma of all people was that requested. Over someone like Seliph(?), Sigurd, and Leif.

Who's Omga? Was he one of those early knights like Douga?

 

[Deleted member]

Who's Omga? Was he one of those early knights like Douga?

Ogma. Early game Mercenary in Shadow Dragon.

 

[Hadokeyblade]

Ogma. Early game Mercenary in Shadow Dragon.

I never played any of the Arcanea games so that's a literal who from me.

 

[MisterMike]

I firmly believe folks misunderstand where the skepticism of spirit upgrades stems from.

It is the not the fact that pngs exist and that Sakurai is somehow not able to go past a png.

It’s the concept of what Spirits are, and the fact that some have been withheld for particular times and others have not, added onto the fact that they function as if they were actually the character themselves as a concept.

The argument is that for two straight scenarios of Smash DLC (as in, this is based on evidence and precedent) the only DLC newcomers to Smash have been 3rd party characters that bring a stage, music, and spirits (Ultimate), or relevant first party newcomers that just so happen to both be from recent Fire Emblem games. On top of that, every DLC choice has been a main protagonist from said game or franchise.

There’s also the fact that Sakurai has seemingly suggested in the past that non-playable roles count just as much as playable ones in the crossover. He also said he would like to continue the crossover, and “improve on the record”.

Now, it’s not a rule that this will “absolutely, positively” play out this way. But this idea? The fact that previous evidence suggests another potential outcome? There’s stuff out there, like the things I mentioned, that lead to one potential inclusion.

I would absolutely entertain the idea that spirits aren’t disconfirmations if someone proposed an argument, with evidence, that suggests it’s going to happen. I have seen nothing but hypothetical situations. But when I propose stuff based on actual precedent, actual evidence, I get hit with the invalid response of, “Lalalalalala fan rule fan rule fan rule”. Just because you don’t agree with it doesn’t mean it’s a fan rule, and never have I passed it off as such.

It should also be noted that the function of spirits is quite different from trophies, and based on the way they are added to the game, I don’t know that trophies are a proper equivalent argument. That could be up for discussion.

It’s not impossible for spirit upgrades. I never said it was. I have said in the past that it seems unlikely to happen based on what I’ve read. It’s one thing to want something to happen, but wanting it or saying, “X character is popular!” Is not a strong piece of evidence in this case, at least for me.

Alas, I can continue this later. Some folks have made decent points, but again, hypothetical outcomes aren’t evidence of likelihood. Responding to a question, when the question is based on precedent, with a hypothetical such as, “Well Sakurai could” is not evidence and does not have the same gravitas. At least, as an English teacher, I feel that way, lol.

PS- I DO want to point out that the whole time Season 1 was a thing, I explicitly said that while I thought Pick 5 would be 3rd party, Astral Chain or Three Houses could be added as an exception to what I believed would be a lack of first parties.

I wasn’t wrong.

If you're not arguing whether Spirits are a hard disconfirmation or not, then there's really no argument to be had here, because it'll always just boil down to your opinion on the matter. Nobody will be able to convince you that Spirits aren't a likely indicator of a character not getting in as a fighter because there's no definitive way to prove that one way or the other. Even if a Spirit gets upgraded to fighter status, that still isn't definitive enough evidence to disprove your belief that it's an unlikely scenario. Same for two, same for ten, same for twenty. It'll always remain an inarguable statement simply due to the sheer number of Spirits in the game who won't get upgraded. I have no idea why you're arguing this point at all.

Now if you were arguing whether Spirits are a hard disconfirmation for a character or not, then we'd be able to have a proper debate about it, since that's something that can actually be argued using objective information. I've made a post about it arguing in favor of it being possible, if you'd like to check it out.

Oh great, this again. Alright, it's time to put this terrible arguement in it's grave once and for all.
First off, there is nothing officially stating that a character being a spirit, an Assist Trophy, a boss, a Mii Figher Costume, or part of someone's moveset (a Final Smash, for example) cannot also be a fighter or anything else. While it is usually the case that characters who are designated as one of those are only used for that purpose, there is nothing set in stone that says they can't be anything else. After all, we have plenty of examples of this not being the case: Chrom is both still part of Robin's Final Smash despite also being an Echo Fighter. King K. Rool, Isabelle, and Chrom are fighers despite having Mii Fighter Costumes still in the game. Rathalos is both a boss in World of Light and some character's Classic Mode playthroughs, as well as an Assist Trophy.

Second, Spirits aren't the literal soul of a character. There are spirits for yoga poses, for crying out loud! Y'know, abstract concepts that don't have a soul in any way, shape, or form? Do yoga poses have souls? Furthermore, there are three spirits for King K. Rool in different outfits. Are you telling me that they're three different characters? If different outfits/artwork is enough to be a different Spirit, couldn't they just use Geno's star form (titled ♪!?) as the basis for his Fighter Spirit instead? Or is that considered cheating?

Third, I don't know how long you've been around with regards to Smash speculation, but before Mewtwo and Lucas came back as DLC for Smash 4, A LOT of people considered trophies a death sentence for characters in the same way you and others consider spirits. Go back far enough, specifically around the release of Smash 4 on 3DS, and you'll find plenty of people who genuinely believed that a trophy meant no fighter. And to their credit, they kind of had a good reason to believe that.

In Melee, your fighter would start every fight as a trophy before losing the stand, in essence coming to life. In Brawl, a character's trophy was considered their body, and if they're touched by a living fighter while in their inert state, they would reawaken. While certain characters would be used for multiple trophies (Kirby for example used to have trophies showcasing all of his abilities, both from his home series and in Smash), it was generally accepted that these trophies were the characters souls, and since fighters have their own trophies, to already have a trophy in the game meant you couldn't also have a fighter trophy.

Spirits are much the same thing as trophies from prior Smash games. You may like to think they're different because of their whispy, ethereal design, but they're not different at all. So if trophies in Smash aren't considered enough to prevent a character from becoming a fighter, then spirits also aren't enough to prevent a character from becoming a fighter. And let's be real, do you really think Sakurai is going to not include a character because someone on the dev team had already included him as a goddamn PNG File? "Well I could include Geno as a DLC Fighter to please longtime fans, but the group of employees I got to work on the Spirits already used his PNG for a spirit, so I guess I can't do that. Too bad I don't have the authority to overrule their descision because I would've loved to include him, but oh well! better luck next time, I guess!"

 

[DevaAshera]

Back in smash 4, I've always heard demand on the internet for . Never heard demand for crash until recently.

Yeah, that was because, regardless of what people say, literally the only reason Crash Bandicoot is on anyone's mind (for the most part anyway) is because of the Crash Bandicoot N-Sane Trilogy bringing him back into relevancy..same with Spyro.

Demand or not I can still honestly imagine Sakurai choosing Crash as among the six due to not only being an video game icon but obviously being fun to play since as he stated "Its more important for a character to be fun".

I could too, since, unlike a lot of Western picks like Doomguy or Rayman, Crash Bandicoot is very popular in Japan like it is in the West.

 

[TMNTSSB4]

Probably because they're the main villains in two classic and beloved series, they have great designs and, turns out, great moveset potential.

And yeah, a guy who called Byleth for Fighter 5 said Crash is 6.

in Ridley’s case, he also had to spend lots of years dealing with the whole “too big” problem

Guys, Sakurai is actually being held hostage. In every Direct, they hold him at gunpoint.

Byleth wasn't his decision, here's proof:

Spoiler: Sakurai needs our help

View attachment 259571

Sakurai better keep doing what Nintendo says if he wants to survive this all

 

[SuperSmashStephen]

Back in smash 4, I've always heard demand on the internet for . Never heard demand for crash until recently.

Same here. I know the previous 3 have been heavily requested for ages. I literally only started seeing high Crash demand after the reveal of Banjo.

I think he has become a bandwagon pick, and I think a lot of people are vastly overestimating his chances of making it into Smash.

Now there’s this whole “triangle of rivalry” that people have concocted trying to give credence to Crash’s alleged guarantee or deserved spot in Smash, and I just can not for the life of me wrap my brain around it.

Lastly, I’ve said it once and I’ll say it again. I don’t ever remember Crash being on the same level as Mario and Sonic in terms of rivalry or what have you. I was a child of the 90’s. I played Mario, Sonic, and Crash Bandicoot games. They were all fun, but I also remember only ever hearing about Mario and Sonic.

I don’t think we will be seeing Crash Bandicoot in Smash Ultimate. Rumors be dashed upon the rocks. Somebody gets something right by way of an educated guess and all of a sudden their a prophet.