Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[Ridrool64]

It just dawned on me how Byleth being the end of Volume 1 and not in Volume 2 makes sense.

If Byleth started Volume 2 not only would the reception be even worse because not only would people be almost as angry, but people's perceptions will be more characters like Byleth, and it'd also brutalize the sales of Volume 2. This is why the most hype characters are revealed first: to get as many pre-orders and early purchases as possible. There's a reason Joker was the initial member of Volume 1. He had to get everybody shocked and hyped for what was to come. With Joker, people were expecting characters who wouldn't have otherwise made sense. If Byleth initiated Volume 2 this would have been a grave disaster, as now people are mad and think the Volume 2 pass isn't worth it because of Byleth alone.

I still blame Corrin for everything and think that, in two months time, the Byleth arguments will have mostly stopped outside of a few people. But I'm a bit more aware of why they came NOW instead of starting Volume 2.

---

I've asked this question before and I'll ask again here. Who is your most wanted character who you will accept NPC roles for (Assist, boss, Spirit/Trophy, Mii Costume, etc.) and do you have any characters you want that are Fighter or bust? At this point, I'm down with Frisk and Lloyd getting Mii Costumes (back), and I'm okay with where Paper Mario is. But at this point, I don't really believe Arle could fit in without being a Fighter, and I believe the same of Crash (to a lesser extent. I can at least think of a Mii and a Puppet that fit him, while with Arle nobody really fits well.)

 

[Ramen Tengoku]

I think that anyone who hates Byleth but supports a Sword & Shield Pokemon is a hypocrite.

not really

Some people may just really really like Pokemon and really really hate Fire Emblem

Some people could just find Byleth pretty basic and see more potential in a new Pokemon in comparison

there a multitude of reasonings tbh

 

[Megadoomer]

I think that anyone who hates Byleth but supports a Sword & Shield Pokemon is a hypocrite.

That seems like an extremely broad generalization, especially since people can dislike Byleth's inclusion for reasons that wouldn't apply to a Sword/Shield Pokemon.

 

[GuiltyGyarados]

I think that anyone who hates Byleth but supports a Sword & Shield Pokemon is a hypocrite.

Not that I do, but why? Pokémon could have at least two more reps, and I wouldn't complain. Biggest media franchise in the world, and not only does every single Pokémon in Smash have a unique design, they also bring lots of unique playstyles to the table. The same can't be said of Fire Emblem.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

And that's pecking depressing to think about.

That reminds me of A Hat in Time. I dropped it because I wasn't in a good mood and also, I spook really easily and my fears follow me to bed.
EDIT: Forgot to say that the post made me want to give it another go.

 

[MooMew64]

not really

Some people may just really really like Pokemon and really really hate fire emblem

TBH I wanted both.

A SwSh Pokemon would be sooooo goooood. There's too many good designs, it's hard for me to pick just one.

 

[RileyXY1]

Not that I do, but why? Pokémon could have at least two more reps, and I wouldn't complain. Biggest media franchise in the world, and not only does every single Pokémon in Smash have a unique design, they also bring lots of unique playstyles to the table. The same can't be said of Fire Emblem.

They're both different kinds of shill picks. Pokemon shouldn't get away with it because of unique movesets.

 

[Megadoomer]

Sakurai can add all the swordsmen he wants as long as he continues giving then unique fighting styles which he has been doin

I'm not sure if that's the best example to go with, since plenty of them have a lot of overlap. (Marth/Roy/Lucina/Chrom, Link/Young Link/Toon Link)

 

[P.Kat]

Me watching people argue over a video game character's inclusion in an E10+ party game for hours on:

Just to be clear I don't think there's anything wrong with being disappointed over Byleth being added, but damn it seems like their inclusion legit ruined some people's lives or something.

They poisoned our water supply, burn our crops, and delivered a plague onto our houses.

But seriously, I don't even think Corrin got this much heat when they were revealed. It's getting ridiculous, not the people's disappoinment, or even their frustration, but the pure unnecessary hatred for one character that's not even the last character.

It was going to happen eventually, Nintendo were gonna have at least one promotional character, we just didn't know when. Next pass will either be the same thing, or not. Only time will tell.

 

[GuiltyGyarados]

They're both different kinds of shill picks. Pokemon shouldn't get away with it because of unique movesets.

You're not wrong, I guess, but even putting my own bias aside, I still think Pokémon is a far more important series.

Catering to FE feels weird in particular because of how niche it is in comparison.

 

[Garteam]

I think the first party vs third party debate will go the way of the dodo now that Byleth is in. A lot of people really wanted a first party simply because they wanted a confirmation that their favourite Nintendo character was eligible for a full DLC pack. Now that the dam's been broken down, I expect the "first party coalition" to break down in favour of most people instead supporting specific Nintendo characters.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Not that I do, but why? Pokémon could have at least two more reps, and I wouldn't complain. Biggest media franchise in the world, and not only does every single Pokémon in Smash have a unique design, they also bring lots of unique playstyles to the table. The same can't be said of Fire Emblem.

Don't make me stick Caeda in the Fighters Pass Part 2! Then you'll feel the uniqueness of the Pegasus Knight!

No but seriously, Fire Emblem isn't devoid of unique playstyles, Sakurai just backed himself into a corner with having half of them be quick and/or last minute additions.

 

[DevaAshera]

I'm not sure if that's the best example to go with, since plenty of them have a lot of overlap. (Marth/Roy/Lucina/Chrom, Link/Young Link/Toon Link)

I think that's why they said that, I think they are fine with new swordsman as long as they are not Marth or Link clones and have something fun & unique like Byleth does.

 

[Guynamednelson]

I think that anyone who hates Byleth but supports a Sword & Shield Pokemon is a hypocrite.

Depends on whether or not they're complaining about Byleth being another swordfighter while wanting another anthro.

I think the first party vs third party debate will go the way of the dodo now that Byleth is in.

We need another fighter to ensure it doesn't become "More first parties will be on the way" vs. "it'll just be FE because Sakurai loves it".

 

[Evil Trapezium]

I think that anyone who hates Byleth but supports a Sword & Shield Pokemon is a hypocrite.

Ha I get it! SWORD & Shield! Because people complain about Byleth using a Sword! Funny joke!

 

[TwiceEXE]

Are people ever going to realize that how popular a series is doesn't mean that it deserves (or will get) more characters in Smash? If that were the case it would be almost all Fortnite and CoD characters with some other battle royales thrown in alongside MOBAs.

 

[P.Kat]

I'm not sure if that's the best example to go with, since plenty of them have a lot of overlap. (Marth/Roy/Lucina/Chrom, Link/Young Link/Toon Link)

That brings up something interesting. Basically all the Swordfighters have a swordstyle that's basically European/Medieval-esque. We've yet to see any fighters with any eastern style swordfighting, the closest would be Sheik's Final Smash.

Other than that, any Swordfighter with a different style than Link's, and the current FE fighters are the Assist Trophies(Kat & Ana, Samurai Goroh, Takamaru, and Lyn). Just something I've noticed.

 

[BernkastelWitch]

Are people ever going to realize that how popular a series is doesn't mean that it deserves (or will get) more characters in Smash? If that were the case it would be almost all Fortnite and CoD characters with some other battle royales thrown in alongside MOBAs.

Popularity is a factor but not THE factor when choosing a character. There's a ton of variables. Is this character unique to play as? Are they fun? Are they influential in some way even if their series isn't popular in certain spots? As well as the typical stuff regarding negotiations and rights.

 

[MooMew64]

Are people ever going to realize that how popular a series is doesn't mean that it deserves (or will get) more characters in Smash? If that were the case it would be almost all Fortnite and CoD characters with some other battle royales thrown in alongside MOBAs.

The problem more lies with people still using the term "deserve" for fictional characters.

No character in Smash "needs" or "deserves" anything IMO. They're pixels on a screen.

 

[pinshadow]

Why are people acting like this was some kind of inevitability? Like Nintendo just had to have a promotional character, or that we all knew they were going to add a Three Houses rep eventually. They chose to add Byleth when there were clearly other options on the table, hell Ubisoft literally got Mii Costumes but no character. I know people are going to say 6 more characters, but they still originally planned to end on THIS. I think the Smash community would have taken literally anything else, sans another Pokemon, better than this.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Speaking of Ubisoft

anyone find it hilarious that they couldn’t even say Assassin’s Creed? Lmao

 

[GuiltyGyarados]

No character in Smash "needs" or "deserves" anything IMO. They're pixels on a screen.

You're right, Mario totally doesn't need or deserve to be in Smash.

anyone find it hilarious that they couldn’t even say Assassin’s Creed? Lmao

I thought that was strange, too.

 

[Professor Pumpkaboo]

yo Im about to blow your mind

What if, hear me out, what if Byleth is holding the artifact out on the banner like that because hes letting Professor Layton, the Archeologist, look at it.

 

[Gyrom8]

Speaking of Ubisoft

anyone find it hilarious that they couldn’t even say Assassin’s Creed? Lmao

Assassins' Creed? What's that, a spin off to the famous Altair series?

 

[MooMew64]

Why are people acting like this was some kind of inevitability? Like Nintendo just had to have a promotional character, or that we all knew they were going to add a Three Houses rep eventually. They chose to add Byleth when there were clearly other options on the table, hell Ubisoft literally got Mii Costumes but no character. I know people are going to say 6 more characters, but they still originally planned to end on THIS. I think the Smash community would have taken literally anything else, sans another Pokemon, better than this.

Honestly? I'd be 100% happy if the Smash community was completely ignored when it comes to character additions.

After this fiasco, I'm still not so sure we even deserve more characters, lol.

 

[SvartWolf]

if i want the sword doggo as the pokemon rep... does that means the i just want another anime swordfighter? DX

 

[Evil Trapezium]

I think the first party vs third party debate will go the way of the dodo now that Byleth is in. A lot of people really wanted a first party simply because they wanted a confirmation that their favourite Nintendo character was eligible for a full DLC pack. Now that the dam's been broken down, I expect the "first party coalition" to break down in favour of most people instead supporting specific Nintendo characters.

Nah I still think we'll be getting only third party characters. Byleth is most likely the exception.

 

[3BitSaurus]

Yep. People will hop on the "ANOTHER first part? Anti-hype! Only 3rd parties are hype!" and "Irrelevant! This guy got in over [POPULAR 3RD PARTY]!?" If Isaac did get in.

And that's pecking depressing to think about.

The weirdest thing about the "anti-hype" argument for me is that a lot of the people I saw using it also wanted a Three Houses or Sword and Shield character.

Honestly? I'd be 100% happy if the Smash community was completely ignored when it comes to character additions.

After this fiasco, I'm still not so sure we even deserve more characters, lol.

...Nah, that just sounds reductionist and spiteful.

 

[MooMew64]

The weirdest thing about the "anti-hype" argument for me is that a lot of the people I saw using it also wanted a Three Houses or Sword and Shield character.

It's just people trying to word "I don't like this" in a different, more aggressive and argumentive way.

At least, that's how I always see it used.

 

[TwiceEXE]

It's just people trying to word "I don't like this" in a different, more aggressive and argumentive way.

At least, that's how I always see it used.

They also try and use it to make it seem like their subjective opinions are instead objective facts. As if there is a right or wrong choice possible when it comes to adding smash characters.

 

[King Sonnn DeDeDoo]

yo Im about to blow your mind

What if, hear me out, what if Byleth is holding the artifact out on the banner like that because hes letting Professor Layton, the Archeologist, look at it.

They’re both Professors so it works twice as well.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

if i want the sword doggo as the pokemon rep... does that means the i just want another anime swordfighter? DX

Not just an anime sword fighter, but a blue haired one? For shame!

 

[MooMew64]

...Nah, that just sounds reductionist and spiteful.

Not saying I don't want more. Of course I do.

However, I'm just saying I'm glad communities like this have little to no impact on the actual end product. We're a blip on the radar, and TBH thank goodness, otherwise I probably wouldn't see half of the things I enjoy in this game.

 

[Gyrom8]

If we did get a Gen 8 rep I'd only want something like Dragapult or best boy Dracovish

I'm a fan of the Pokemon series but I don't really have much investment in newcomers as they'll typically go for a starter or that generation's poster child (often one and the same) which, while understandable, doesn't really interest me as these are rarely my favourite - I'm not that fussed for yet another anthro mon

 

[Arcari17]

So I've enjoyed reading the speculation for FP2, and thought it'd be fun to throw my two cents in. I'm not going to do a personal wishlist though; I'll do the "what I expect to play out" instead. I will start with two base assumptions: No Echo Fighters, and at least two first-party characters.

-We'll get a double reveal at E3, as has been happening previously. Since this is where Nintendo needs to get people absolutely hyped so that they go all in on buying the entire FP2 instead of waiting, the first reveal will be something bombastic akin to Joker's reveal. I expect the first reveal to be Master Chief or Sora. A character that makes people go "no freaking way how did they manage to get them in?!" Then, riding off the coattails, I'm calling a Gen 8 Pokemon to be revealed as well, especially since the first batch of Sw/Sh DLC should be around the time of E3 and Nintendo will definitely want that marketing.

-The next reveal will probably be closer to the holiday season, and this will probably be one of the bigger third party names that get tossed around. Dante may make his appearance here, or perhaps another "iconic gaming mascot" akin to Banjo-Kazooie such as Crash or Spyro.

-E3 2021, the last double reveal (or they could reveal one character earlier, but I'm gonna assume we'd be waiting until E3 for another double). This probably won't be as hype as E3 2020, but still, we'd get at least one somewhat big name here. Ryu Hayabusa comes to mind here, or a character along those lines. 2B or KOS-MOS, perhaps? Then, another first party Nintendo character will also be revealed. I'm going out on a massive limb with this one, but I expect a Zelda character from Breath of the Wild 2, regardless if the game is out by then or not. Once again, to capitalize on marketing and such. Of course, this is reliant on Nintendo making relevant main characters in Zelda that aren't named Link, Zelda, or Ganondorf.

-The final character will be small compared to everything else, because as we've been reminded, Smash does not end on a high note. Perhaps third party characters like Reimu or Arle, or any third party character that has a small to middling following to wrap things up.

 

[Rummy]

I'm not gonna say much but i'm super optimistic about FP2, Sure the wait between characters will be longer but i do believe there will be a lot of excitement. Byleth might not be the best wrap up to the first pass but they seem to play well and finally use a lot of elements missing from FE's style of gameplay. But the point still stands, i'm excited to see how support for Ultimate will go in the next two years as a daily player.

 

[DarthEnderX]

A lot of people who weren't excited for this character like Maximillion or Introspektive had very "Eh" reactions but basically ended it with "I'm not excited, but happy for their fans, and their gameplay seems neat."

It's kinda weird to hold up Max as a mature response considering it was 40 minutes of comedic sarcasm.

To pass off that delightful piece of performance art as an "eh" reaction is somewhat disingenuous.

Worst I'm seeing from the other side is "Hoes mad"

And hoes must be REALLY mad.

...I am.

Rank the DLC

Joker - 6/10 - I don't care about P5 but SMT is a franchise that earned a rep.

Hero - 10/10 - Still disappointed in how he plays. but that's an A+ pick.

Banjo - 6/10 - Don't care about BK. But deserves the spot.

Terry - 10/10 - Great pick and tons of fun to play.

Byleth - 1/10 - zzzzzzzz

 

[True Blue Warrior]

It's just people trying to word "I don't like this" in a different, more aggressive and argumentive way.

At least, that's how I always see it used.

But MooMew, don't you understand that if I don't think a first party DLC character would be hype, surely my opinion must be representative of the "silent majority" of the fanbase?

 

[3BitSaurus]

Not saying I don't want more. Of course I do.

However, I'm just saying I'm glad communities like this have little to no impact on the actual end product. We're a blip on the radar, and TBH thank goodness, otherwise I probably wouldn't see half of the things I enjoy in this game.

Dunno, I can see the other side of the coin - quite a few things I like about Ultimate wouldn't be here if not for the core fanbase. Plus, several of the more "niche" characters many of us like would never have made it in, and the ones that haven't made it in yet likely never would.

 

[GoodGrief741]

Why would he not be? It's honestly funny watching you guys squirm like you can honestly not comprehend why the 8th FE character would be poorly received.

Look at the bright side, the FE character in the second pass will be even more hated.

I do understand why he's poorly received, but it'd be weird if the reception was overall worse than stuff like Corrin who is from a much worse game or other controversial characters like Piranha Plant or Incineroar who have even less of a justification for being in.

You should be doing that anyways.

Don't ever buy DLC or anything else if you don't know what it is. It's just smart financial practice.

If you give a man $5000 for a "mystery car" and both sign a contract where his only obligation to give you "a car" by a certain date, you've basically given him carte blanche to screw you over any way he wants. You've lost the right to complain when he gives you a hand-crank jalopy from 1910 that gets half a kilometer to the crank.

Isn't that an episode of iCarly?

If he can't become playable I'd be totally down for a Quote from Cave Story Mii Gunner costume.

C'mon, you can aim higher than that.