Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[GuiltyGyarados]

Smash is pretty much a celebration of gaming

It's really a celebration of whatever Nintendo and Sakurai thinks is worthy of being celebrated at this point.

Sounds cynical, but Byleth has me pretty blackpilled right now.

 

[MooMew64]

I think it's hilarious how the most unique FE newcomer got FAR more hate than the clone of a semi-clone added before it - who not only had already crossed the "too many Fire Emblem repz" line, but also got a better reception than the (also unique) FE character before him. All this talk about "too much FE" or "anime swordfighter" became empty after I realized that.

Welcome to the Smash fandom: Hypocrisy and double standards everywhere.

We really out here arguing "stolen slots"-esque arguments in 2020. I can't help but feel nostalgic as someone who liked Corrin back in the day.

 

[Slick Guy]

I can't think of many Indie characters who can possibly make it in other than Reimu. Maybe Quote but Niantic is... Eh. All the other choices have gotten the Spirit treatment, Assist Trophy treatment, or Miss costumed.

And Touhou is still one of the biggest indie/doujin series around to the point it needs its own con in Japan to hold onto stuff.

And given how Smash is pretty much a celebration of gaming, a playable Indie rep would cover a niche there. Unless Sakurai thinks Mii Costumes and spirits are enough to cover it, then I feel like Reimu is a bit more likely than we think given how her competition is in the game as something other than a spirit yet she's still living.

I could be wrong but I did put her in the "Unexpected/Niche/Regional/Whatever" category for me there given how she gets written off a lot despite most possible indie choices getting Axed.

- I could see Neptunia getting some love

 

[I.D.]

I can't think of many Indie characters who can possibly make it in other than Reimu. Maybe Quote but Niantic is... Eh. All the other choices have gotten the Spirit treatment, Assist Trophy treatment, or Miss costumed.

And Touhou is still one of the biggest indie/doujin series around to the point it needs its own con in Japan to hold onto stuff.

And given how Smash is pretty much a celebration of gaming, a playable Indie rep would cover a niche there. Unless Sakurai thinks Mii Costumes and spirits are enough to cover it, then I feel like Reimu is a bit more likely than we think given how her competition is in the game as something other than a spirit yet she's still living.

I could be wrong but I did put her in the "Unexpected/Niche/Regional/Whatever" category for me there given how she gets written off a lot despite most possible indie choices getting Axed.

Sakurai has never mentioned Tohou afaik, and as far as I'm concerned that's a death sentence.

 

[Professor Pumpkaboo]

I made a lil something, hope you like it

 

[BernkastelWitch]

Sakurai has never mentioned Tohou afaik, and as far as I'm concerned that's a death sentence.

If we go by this logic here then 90% of most wanted characters would be nixed because Sakurai didn't mention or acknowledge them. I see Sakurai as someone who is more vocal about franchises and companies he had a more personal attachment to but is lowkey on other stuff. And that would be severely limiting discussion and possibly choices.

Also I do not remember if Sakurai mentioned Banjo-Kazooie before Banjo's reveal for an example.

 

[Oddball]

One thing I don't think is getting enough discussion.

With Sans and Cuphead, Miis that exactly copy the characters appearance aren't just a one time thing anymore. While, I'm sure most people would prefer their characters of choice to be full characters, having a Mii that looks just like them and even includes music is a nice second place trophy. It might not be the same thing as getting a new character, but it's like 70s% of a new character. That ain't bad and gives hope for characters that otherwise would be left out.

I'm really lookign forward to seeing who else gets the special Mii treatment.

 

[kylexv]

It is getting close to the end of 2021. People are eagerly awaiting the final reveal, looking back at Ultimate's roster. Some people get a character they want, while others continue to hold hope for the last character.

And people are still arguing about Byleth.

Y'all are making me tired.

 

[I.D.]

Also I do not remember if Sakurai mentioned Banjo-Kazooie before Banjo's reveal for an example.

You serious? He literally talked about him all the way back in the melee days.

 

[BernkastelWitch]

You serious? He literally talked about him all the way back in the melee days.

Now I remember. I just woke up so my mind really isn't 100% if it makes sense.

 

[I.D.]

It is getting close to the end of 2021. People are eagerly awaiting the final reveal, looking back at Ultimate's roster. Some people get a character they want, while others continue to hold hope for the last character.

And people are still arguing about Byleth.

Y'all are making me tired.

People will be arguing about the next fire emblem character, not byleth.

 

[GuiltyGyarados]

We really out here arguing "stolen slots"-esque arguments in 2020. I can't help but feel nostalgic as someone who liked Corrin back in the day.

...We literally have slots now, though.

 

[Slick Guy]

One thing I don't think is getting enough discussion.

With Sans and Cuphead, Miis that exactly copy the characters appearance aren't just a one time thing anymore. While, I'm sure most people would prefer their characters of choice to be full characters, having a Mii that looks just like them and even includes music is a nice second place trophy. It might not be the same thing as getting a new character, but it's like 70s% of a new character. That ain't bad and gives hope for characters that otherwise would be left out.

I'm really lookign forward to seeing who else gets the special Mii treatment.

-Travis Touchdown was the first character that came to mind.

 

[MooMew64]

It is getting close to the end of 2021. People are eagerly awaiting the final reveal, looking back at Ultimate's roster. Some people get a character they want, while others continue to hold hope for the last character.

And people are still arguing about Byleth.

Y'all are making me tired.

Imagine being mad at one character out of a roster of 82 with six more coming.

This fanbase is something else.

 

[RetroBro]

I'm not surprised by Byleth at all. I'm also excited to play the character. However, I think their timing was poor and building up the suspense combined with talking about how much of a surprise it was going to be was bad PR/Publicity.

FE fans should be willing to concede that Byleth should probably not have been the final DLC character but the first or second. It's a common thought that there is simply a saturation of FE characters & sword characters in the game. It's even been acknowledged by Sakurai. I think the DLC was just poorly planned... despite the fact that I'm super happy with it.

Hey, we could simply not have ANY DLC at all? Or only have gotten 1 or 2 like everyone said would happen.

 

[BernkastelWitch]

I'm still a bit of an advocate for more Niche or lesser talked about characters in Smash. Mainly because I feel like some people sleep on their chances and it provides more discussion than the usual Geno/Doom Guy/Master Chief/Crash/Waluigi/Hayabusa circle of characters.

And if Hero and Terry were any indication, some people didn't start seriously seeing them as viable until evidence popped up and then they were later revealed.

Also discussion is a bit boring if it's the same five-six characters and I doubt we'd be getting all of them in Smash and some unexpected choices may happen.

 

[I.D.]

I'm not surprised by Byleth at all. I'm also excited to play the character. However, I think their timing was poor and building up the suspense combined with talking about how much of a surprise it was going to be was bad PR/Publicity.

FE fans should be willing to concede that Byleth should probably not have been the final DLC character but the first or second. It's a common thought that there is simply a saturation of FE characters & sword characters in the game. It's even been acknowledged by Sakurai. I think the DLC was just poorly planned... despite the fact that I'm super happy with it.

Hey, we could simply not have ANY DLC at all? Or only have gotten 1 or 2 like everyone said would happen.

There is no good timing to reveal Byleth. 8th Fire Emblem character would be received poorly no matter what, especially yet another one who was chosen before his game was released.

 

[Slick Guy]

Imagine being mad at one character out of a roster of 82 with six more coming.

This fanbase is something else.

-Imagine the alternative. Sakurai announces FP2 with 6 slots then just slaps all 6 portraits up there and says buy the pass.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Imagine being mad at one character out of a roster of 82 with six more coming.

This fanbase is something else.

There not just mad at Byleth, they're also mad at Chrom, Corrin, Robin, Lucina, Roy, Dark Pit, Young Link, and Pichu.

No one cares enough about Dr. Mario to waste the energy.

 

[BernkastelWitch]

There not just mad at Byleth, they're also mad at Chrom, Corrin, Robin, Lucina, Roy, Dark Pit, Young Link, and Pichu.

No one cares enough about Dr. Mario to waste the energy.

I've seen people still angry at Mr. Game & Watch and ROB too. Smash's fanbase tends to hold grudges for a long, long time.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

There not just mad at Byleth, they're also mad at Chrom, Corrin, Robin, Lucina, Roy, Dark Pit, Young Link, and Pichu.

No one cares enough about Dr. Mario to waste the energy.

I’ve seen some ppl mad at Dr. Mario. Hoes were so mad they wanted a DLC option to remove Dr. Mario like wut

 

[Cutie Gwen]

-Travis Touchdown was the first character that came to mind.

Ehh, I'm not sure, Travis' proportions are too realistic whereas Sans and Cuphead both have such high quality costumes due to fitting perfectly

 

[True Blue Warrior]

I think it's hilarious how the most unique FE newcomer got FAR more hate than the clone of a semi-clone added before it - who not only had already crossed the "too many Fire Emblem repz" line, but also got a better reception than the (also unique) FE character before him

Chrom had everything to do with fan demand and being an echo fighter(and thus less of a "slot thief") , whilst Byleth and Corrin didn't. Also, he was revealed alongside . And really, it makes even less sense to complain about a "free dessert" like Chrom than a wholly unique character.

 

[Slick Guy]

Ehh, I'm not sure, Travis' proportions are too realistic whereas Sans and Cuphead both have such high quality costumes due to fitting perfectly

-Fair point. I can see the SwSh starters too

 

[Guybrush20X6]

Oh, had another idea for an indie Mii Costume and song combo

Patty Wagon from Mighty Switch Force as a Mii Gunner

As for the song, either

or if they're feeling a little funkier

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

I've seen people still angry at Mr. Game & Watch and ROB too. Smash's fanbase tends to hold grudges for a long, long time.

Oh yeah. Also Piranha Plant, Sheik, and Jigglypuff.

Tangentially Related Hot Take: I bet the only reason why people disagree with the idea that the original twelve should be immune from roster cuts is because Jigglypuff is among their ranks, and while the Pokémon isn't relevant within its series anymore, I still think people are vastly overlooking its popularity within the Super Smash Bros. series.

I’ve seen some ppl mad at Dr. Mario. Hoes were so mad they wanted a DLC option to remove Dr. Mario like wut

I stand corrected. A foreseeable outcome, as generalizations are always wrong.

Chrom had everything to do with fan demand and being an echo fighter(and thus less of a "slot thief") , whilst Byleth and Corrin didn't. Also, he was revealed alongside . And really, it makes far even less sense to complain about a "free dessert" like Chrom than a wholly unique character.

I'd like to add that Chrom's model was already being made for Robin's Final Smash, so the resources there were already being spent.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

I bet the only reason why people disagree with the idea that the original twelve should be immune from roster cuts is because Jigglypuff is among their ranks

That's not merely an opinion, it's a known fact.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

That's not merely an opinion, it's a known fact.

Perhaps, but if I said that I'd get shot down by that one Ness hater.

 

[MooMew64]

I'm not surprised by Byleth at all. I'm also excited to play the character. However, I think their timing was poor and building up the suspense combined with talking about how much of a surprise it was going to be was bad PR/Publicity.

FE fans should be willing to concede that Byleth should probably not have been the final DLC character but the first or second. It's a common thought that there is simply a saturation of FE characters & sword characters in the game. It's even been acknowledged by Sakurai. I think the DLC was just poorly planned... despite the fact that I'm super happy with it.

Hey, we could simply not have ANY DLC at all? Or only have gotten 1 or 2 like everyone said would happen.

See, I disagree about the "saturation" debate when out of the whole 82 character roster, these are the characters that use swords:



16 out of 82. That really isn't a whole lot when compared to the rest of the roster, especially when four of them are semiclones that require less work, and 2 Echoes that require minimal work.

After that, our roster of swordies that are 100% unique and not based on anything from another character is this:



Heck, Byleth doesn't even use their sword like a sword, (it's basically a whip) and they use other weapons as well. I just can't get behind this "too many swords" argument when these are the same people asking for other characters who use swords, or more punch and kick characters in a game where there's a lot of punch and kick.

However, they aren't FE, which makes them immune to these supposed criticisms.

 

[GuiltyGyarados]

a "free dessert" like Chrom

Free potato chip.

Greasy, bland, unhealthy, won't fill you up, probably shouldn't eat it, but yeah it's free.

16 out of 82. That really isn't whole lot

That's HUGE.

Huge.

 

[Nesysli]

I remember Sakurai saying the the negotiations for Banjo-Kazooie with Microsoft went rather easy despite language barriers. Maybe after that experience it broadened his view on dealing with foreign game companies when deciding on FP2's DLC. Now with a Cuphead Mii costume, it certainly holds true that Microsoft and Nintendo have a great working relationship. So if Sakurai felt it was the right choice we could get Master Chief or hopefully Crash depending if Activision wants to play ball. I know Crash is pretty universally accepted, with his first couple of games being some of the 1st American-made games to break into the millions in Japan. I want to say Iwata was a fan of the Crash series too.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

However, they aren't FE, which makes them immune to these supposed criticisms.

As an Isaac supporter, let me just tell you that there are people who have used the "another anime swordsman" argument against him. The only reason why it isn't currently being used that much against him is that pretty much no-one really thinks he has a good chance. I can guarantee you if Isaac ever were to be revealed, a lot of those people will come out of the woodwork and complaining about "Scarf Marth" or "Cloud Jr." or something like that.

 

[MooMew64]

As an Isaac supporter, let me just tell you that there are people who have used the "another anime swordsman" argument against him. The only reason why it isn't currently being used that much against him is that pretty much no-one really thinks he has a good chance. I can guarantee you if Isaac ever were to be revealed, a lot of those people will come out of the woodwork and complaining about "Scarf Marth" or "Cloud Jr." or something like that.

Yep. People will hop on the "ANOTHER first part? Anti-hype! Only 3rd parties are hype!" and "Irrelevant! This guy got in over [POPULAR 3RD PARTY]!?" If Isaac did get in.

And that's pecking depressing to think about.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Yep. People will hop on the "ANOTHER first part? Anti-hype! Only 3rd parties are hype!" and "Irrelevant! This guy got in over [POPULAR 3RD PARTY]!?" If Isaac did get in.

And that's pecking depressing to think about.

Tbf I've seen people happy with Byleth solely for being first party

 

[True Blue Warrior]

Yep. People will hop on the "ANOTHER first part? Anti-hype! Only 3rd parties are hype!" and "Irrelevant! This guy got in over [POPULAR 3RD PARTY]!?" If Isaac did get in.

And that's pecking depressing to think about.

"They put in some irrelevant anime swordsman instead of 2B and Crash?!?"

"How many blond sword guys do we need, Sakurai?! How about some diversity for a change!"

 

[GuiltyGyarados]

"They put in some irrelevant anime swordsman instead of 2B and Crash?!?"

"How many blond sword guys do we need, Sakurai?! How about some diversity for a change!"

...Yeah. How about some?

 

[MooMew64]

Tbf I've seen people happy with Byleth solely for being first party

It's been mixed in stuff I've read. Lots seem to like the idea of first party, while a lot of people are upset that there's the potential we'll get more and they will steal "3rd party slots".

Granted, it could just be in the communities I'm looking at. The internet makes it easy to think something is widespread when it really isn't, so if that attitude isn't prevalent as I thought, that's good, ha ha.

 

[RileyXY1]

I think that anyone who hates Byleth but supports a Sword & Shield Pokemon is a hypocrite.

 

[Professor Pumpkaboo]

Sakurai can add all the swordsmen he wants as long as he continues giving then unique fighting styles which he has been doin

 

[DarthEnderX]

I know this is really far back, but that's also a pretty small group relative to previous ones. The reveal would've taken at 9 am in New York, a time when most people (on a Thursday) are at school or work.

Even with fewer people, it doesn't change the fact that only, like, 2 people in the crowd had any reaction at all.

There were still pops for the Mii Custumes and FP2, so it's not like they WOULDN'T react if they wanted to.

I think that anyone who hates Byleth but supports a Sword & Shield Pokemon is a hypocrite.

I mean, there's people that like one of those series but not the other, so it makes sense for them. But you're right, neither of those franchises needs more reps right now.

To be honest, I think the reason Corrin didn't have such a big deal made about them was because they were revealed alongside Bayonetta, so you had Bayonetta overshadow some of the hate for Corrin due to people talking about Bayonetta. Meanwhile, Byleth was revealed by themselves, which makes him an easy and noticeable target to pick on and easy for gaming outlets to take advantage of the stigma, especially for being the Final Character of the first Fighter's Pack.

Completely agree. They desperately needed to end this direct by announcing the first FP2 character as well.

Like when they announced Hero and Banjo together and made both Eastern AND Western fans happy.