Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[RileyXY1]

This is a theory I got to explain why its gonna take 2 years for FP2 to be completed.
I think both the team and budget for fighters pass 2 is smaller then it was for FP1, despite having an additional character. I think for this reason is why I am betting that at least 3 of FP2's characters are gonna first party characters. As they are much cheaper to get a hold then any third party characters due to Nintendo already owning them and not having to worry licensing fees and royalties.

If this is the case, I'm expecting to see some reused assets and possibly even Spirit promotions.

 

[staindgrey]

Fire Emblem fans, c.2020

 

[Izanagi97]

Honestly, the thing that surprised me the most is that Papagenos was apparently really pissed off.

 

[Hadokeyblade]

With these 6 spots I'm honestly getting some end game vibes going on, like it's now or never for some big name requests.

I'm hoping really hard that the only franchise from my childhood without a rep actually gets one

Having Sora, Toon Link, Sonic, Megaman and Pokemon trainer duking it out to Metal slug music would truly make this the ultimate smash.

I found alpharad's reaction the funniest.

My personal favorite was Arlo, like it straight up reflected my own due to the laughter.

 

[DrifloonEmpire]

Let me ask you something, then:

Would you still say that if it was your favorite characters and franchises getting in? Is it truly that you believe that there's something wrong here, or are you just upset it wasn't something that appeals to you? Honest question here.

Everything you just said could be spinned onto any franchise. Why is it only applicable to FE?

I truly believe something is wrong here, and there's a good reason why Fire Emblem gets as much hate as it does. People complain about Mario and Pokemon, and while one is the mascot franchise and the other is the highest grossing media franchise in the world, I'd honestly agree that I'd be underwhelmed and a little disappointed if say Rillaboom was one of the DLC picks. The problem is that it's considered wrong around here to complain about Fire Emblem while it's somehow okay to slam Mario and Pokemon. Look how much unneeded hate a unique and honestly funny character like Piranha Plant got! I find it honestly pretty hypocritical the way people slam Plant but shower new FE reps that most of the fanbase didn't even ask for with endless praise.

I also have a problem with just how lopsided the representation is towards the modern games. Outside of spirits they have 75% of the stages and over 60% of the fighters. it was the only first party among a hit cast of third parties. I would've received it much better if it had been Lyn or Hector but you have to admit there IS a problem here.

 

[♕Pretty Roger♕]

Honestly, the thing that surprised me the most is that Papagenos was apparently really pissed off.

I am at 30:53 and he has not seen the screen for a minute straight, he keeps complaining about FE...

 

[Cutie Gwen]

It would work if Nintendo made more Banjo announcements. Had the first 5 Fighter Passes been

Geno
Banjo
MasterChief
Waluigi
Crash Bandicoot
Doom Guy
Sora
Shantae

or any combo, people would have loved it. We get all this hype about Masterchief or Crash in Smash and then garbage picks, anger at leakers, etc. Just go ahead and drop the bomb I say.

Whoever the announcements are don't actually matter though. Why did they showcase Joker first over literally anyone else? Is it just because of the Game Awards? Nope, Joker's a new, big hit from a game so iconic people have cosplayed the battle menu. By showing off the big guns early on and nothing else, you tell potential customers "Hey, look how cool this is, and we have more fun surprises like this waiting for you!" It's why the Fighter Pass is able to be purchased in a discounted bundle, to help ease people in buying the whole set as it ends up being cheaper than individually. It's common knowledge that I don't **** with Banjo but because he was the only dud in the fighter pass, I never actually lost money as I'd have spent the same amount if I just bought the other 4. It's business, and it works

 

[Animegamingnerd]

If this is the case, I'm expecting to see some reused assets and possibly even Spirit promotions.

Spirits promotions are a tricky subject, so far we haven't gotten any confirmation if that is gonna be the case and the one first party character who was in the FP1 just so happen to be from a game without any spirits, which would explain why Byelth was chosen over Rex. Right now I want to see who the first character in FP2 before I am either completely on board with Spirit promotions or write them off completely as I feel it could either way.

 

[volbound1700]

With these 6 spots I'm honestly getting some end game vibes going on, like it's now or never for some big name requests.

I'm hoping really hard that the only franchise from my childhood without a rep actually gets one
View attachment 258231
Having Sora, Toon Link, Sonic, Megaman and Pokemon trainer duking it out to Metal slug music would truly make this the ultimate smash.


My personal favorite was Arlo, like it straight up reflected my own due to the laughter.

Don't give your hopes up. Smash has always been a series that disappoints and doesn't realize its potential. I would expect at least 3 Nintendo characters, 1 Pokemon.=, a third-party Japanese RPG character no one wants, a popular character that everyone wants to get our hopes up that Sakurai is actually listening (i.e. the Banjo of the pass), and a meh character.

 

[staindgrey]

The problem is that it's considered wrong around here to complain about Fire Emblem while it's somehow okay to slam Mario and Pokemon.

What.





No, seriously. What.

 

[RileyXY1]

Spirits promotions are a tricky subject, so far we haven't gotten any confirmation if that is gonna be the case and the one first party character who was in the FP1 just so happen to be from a game without any spirits, which would explain why Byelth was chosen over Rex. Right now I want to see who the first character in FP2 before I am either completely on board with Spirit promotions or write them off completely as I feel it could either way.

I think that they could promote Spirits if they really have less manpower and resources.

 

[Goombaic]

As shown with Three Houses, if there was going to be a Sword & Shield Pokemon getting in they would not have even done a Sword & Shield Spirit Event in the first place and instead they would have released the Spirits with the fighter.

7 out of more than 80 Pokemon doesn't rule out Sword and Shield, especially since only one of those Spirits could have been a potential fighter. If a Three Houses event happened that was equivalent to the SwSh event, it would have only had The House Leaders as one spirit and three niche students like Ignatz.

 

[ProfPeanut]

Serious question, why doesn't Sakurai and Nintendo announce all 6 characters in the next pass? Would it be healthier for the fanbase instead of all this speculation and conflict?

It keeps people paying attention. People pay attention as long as their most-wanteds still have a shot, and killing all that in one fell swoop is a good way to lose all of that attention.

But as for health, well, speculation doesn't keep a fanbase healthy. It doesn't keep Melee alive after all this time, and it certainly doesn't do anything for all the issues we have to deal with when those characters are already out. Does knowing who's coming keep you playing Smash more than the game itself being fun?

People will grumble and feel like they were led into a trap, but people themselves make their own traps. They'll get over and be just another page in Smash's history. No, the real thing to worry about in regards to health is the metagame, and that's not something (wholly) affected by newcomer choices.

 

[Kokiden]

Let me ask you something, then:

Would you still say that if it was your favorite characters and franchises getting in? Is it truly that you believe that there's something wrong here, or are you just upset it wasn't something that appeals to you? Honest question here.

Everything you just said could be spinned onto any franchise. Why is it only applicable to FE?

I know you didn’t ask me directly, but my answer is yes. Even I would be incredulous if there is such an obvious bias and preferential treatment towards a franchise, even if it’s my favourite.

It comes from knowing that there are so many other great series that exist aside from a favourite.

The reason it’s being used against FE is because it’s the only series that is getting this much preferential treatment.

 

[3BitSaurus]

I am at 30:53 and he has not seen the screen for a minute straight, he keeps complaining about FE...

Real question... why do people care?

Like... it's his channel in the end. You're free to not watch. I get really weirded out by how much time people spend on things they seemingly dislike these days.

 

[Animegamingnerd]

I think that they could promote Spirits if they really have less manpower and resources.

There is a problem with that though Spirits aren't really a character model within the game's artsyle, but a 2D image that changes somethings up about a fighter. So they can't reuse any of the their assets if they got promoted, if anything that is more possible with asset trophies, as the character model is already there.

 

[Cosmic77]

As shown with Three Houses, if there was going to be a Sword & Shield Pokemon getting in they would not have even done a Sword & Shield Spirit Event in the first place and instead they would have released the Spirits with the fighter.

Except a Three Houses cha was planned since before Ultimate even launched. How the heck would Sakurai have known who'd be in Fighter Pass #2 when the first pass didn't even go on sale yet?

Besides, this DLC is running until the end 2021. That's two years after SwSh's release. Unless the very next character is our Pokemon rep, why hold off a couple of Spirits for a character that'll come out 1-2 years after the game releases? You might as well just celebrate the actual release of the game at that point.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Honestly, the thing that surprised me the most is that Papagenos was apparently really pissed off.

When you convince yourself a specific character's happening, chances are you won't be so happy when you're proven wrong, hence why Incineroar got so much hate when first shown off, Incineroar was supposed to be Banjo, Geno, Isaac, yadda yadda yadda, how could they be wrong? Did they set their expectations too high? No, the actual character must be the reason! By shifting the blame like this, you can lose all feelings of accountability for your behaivour and use it to justify being so mad at not getting the toy you wanted

 

[Deleted member]

Fire Emblem fans, c.2020

Scenes when hoes mad

 

[Izanagi97]

7 out of more than 80 Pokemon doesn't rule out Sword and Shield, especially since only one of those Spirits could have been a potential fighter. If a Three Houses event happened that was equivalent to the SwSh event, it would have only had The House Leaders as one spirit and three niche students like Ignatz.

And if a SwSh pokemon ended up in Season 2, they'd likely be fighter 5 or fighter 6 given how Smash reveals are structured

 

[PLATINUM7]

Honestly with the universal acclaim that Three Houses has received for being one of the best, if not the best FE game, it's not surprising at all that it would be represented in Smash with the main protagonist. Especially based on Smash 4 patterns. Besides it's literally one DLC character slot out of like 10 or 11, Byleth ain't stealing no one's spot.

I was thinking about how the positive reception to 3H might have led to Byleth's inclusion but then I remembered they were chosen months before it released.

It's like Corrin but most people like the game.

Serious question, why doesn't Sakurai and Nintendo announce all 6 characters in the next pass? Would it be healthier for the fanbase instead of all this speculation and conflict?

From Sakurai recommending only buying the pass if you're okay not knowing who's in it and comments he's made elsewhere, that appears to be Nintendo's decision.

 

[MBRedboy31]

There's an issue with this, Smash LOVES visualizing hitboxes, as seen with Byleth's fsmash, the pointy end of the lance is glowing orange with the tip showing a white flash, it communicates to the players that this part of the lance is special, and what do you know, it'll do more damage and knockback if you hit with it. By making the limbs invisible, you lose that visual communication. Another issue is visual feedback, when you land a powerful hit, you want that hit to look like it hurt, by removing limbs, the attacks seemingly lose torque and suddenly feel awkward, this is why the Rayman games have Rayman's hands spin around before you send them flying to say "Oooooh this one's gonna hurt... Blammo!"

It’s fairly easy to mentally interpolate the hitboxes between the Mii‘s (I assume Mii Brawler in this case) hands/feet and torso. Besides, even If those hurt boxes were removed, it is unlikely that hitboxes would fit through there, given Miis’ relatively chibi proportions. After all, the hitboxes of something that looks really thin (i.e. Marth’s sword) are already thicker than the visuals would imply.

For the latter point, Smash creates visual feedback by means of exaggerated trailing effects and (in the case of cartoony hand to hand fighters such as Mii Brawler) increasing the size of their hands and/or feet when launching a very strong attack (which is also used in some Rayman games.)

I mean, besides, they basically already did this in Brawlhalla (where every character uses the same skeleton and shares most of their moveset with other characters.)

 

[DanganZilla5]

What is your dream fighters pass?

Mine is:

Phoenix Wright
Doom Slayer
Crash Bandicoot
Agumon
Kratos
Master Chief

 

[DrifloonEmpire]

Honestly, the thing that surprised me the most is that Papagenos was apparently really pissed off.

First time I've ever heard of him getting angry like that. He usually comes off as super chill.

What is your dream fighters pass?

Prince of All Cosmos
Dragonborn
Crash Bandicoot
Louie (Pikmin)
Phoenix Wright
Quote

 

[RileyXY1]

7 out of more than 80 Pokemon doesn't rule out Sword and Shield, especially since only one of those Spirits could have been a potential fighter. If a Three Houses event happened that was equivalent to the SwSh event, it would have only had The House Leaders as one spirit and three niche students like Ignatz.

It's clear that Byleth getting in was the reason why Three Houses didn't get a Spirit event like Daemon x Machina, Pokemon Sword & Shield, and Astral Chain got. I think that it's too late for Sword & Shield, but I think that a Gen 9 Pokemon could get in if Ultimate's DLC cycle lasts that long.

 

[perfectchaos83]

Real question... why do people care?

Like... it's his channel in the end. You're free to not watch. I get really weirded out by how much time people spend on things they seemingly dislike these days.

Sometimes watching a train crash is entertaining.

 

[volbound1700]

When you convince yourself a specific character's happening, chances are you won't be so happy when you're proven wrong, hence why Incineroar got so much hate when first shown off, Incineroar was supposed to be Banjo, Geno, Isaac, yadda yadda yadda, how could they be wrong? Did they set their expectations too high? No, the actual character must be the reason! By shifting the blame like this, you can lose all feelings of accountability for your behaivour and use it to justify being so mad at not getting the toy you wanted

Dude, I have been reading your posts towards other people and you sound like a major dbag. Of course you like Joker and hate Banjo so it does describe your loser emo goth personality.

I can't blame people. Sakurai keeps putting lame characters in when you got legendary characters out there like Doom Guy, Sora, Crash, Masterchief, Ryu Hayabusa, etc. that he could pull from. Smash was built on legends: Mario, Donkey Kong, Link, Kirby, Pikachu, Star Fox all in the same game. The early third parties were legends: Snake, Sonic, Megaman, Pacman, Ryu, Cloud. Then it just turned into a thud. Yes we get good ones here and there like Simon Belmont or Banjo-Kazooie but we primarily tend to get these thuds that MOST people don't care about like Joker.

 

[I.D.]

I don't see how anyone can believe spirit promotions are happening after today lmao. At least the Xenoblade guys seem to have gotten the message and given up.

 

[DrifloonEmpire]

Gen 9 Pokemon could get in if Ultimate's DLC cycle lasts that long.

They might, but I honestly think that a Gen 9 Pokemon might get Zoroark'd

 

[nessdeltarune00]

Hey, I would take Byleth or any FE/Pokemon pick over the emo trash that was Joker any day of the week. Joker got better representations than even the ****ING SONIC THE HEDGEHOG series which is 5x popular. Sakurai could have at least fixed the debauchery that was the Tails costume.
.

Whenever I get bummed about what happened today, I remember that one of my most wanteds is still living rent free in some heads, lol.

 

[Deleted member]

Real question... why do people care?

Like... it's his channel in the end. You're free to not watch. I get really weirded out by how much time people spend on things they seemingly dislike these days.

Tbh, it's kinda shocking coming from him. He's usually laid back and doesn't rant. At most saying, "it's not for me but good for the fans."

 

[Hadokeyblade]

Don't give your hopes up. Smash has always been a series that disappoints and doesn't realize its potential. I would expect at least 3 Nintendo characters, 1 Pokemon.=, a third-party Japanese RPG character no one wants, a popular character that everyone wants to get our hopes up that Sakurai is actually listening (i.e. the Banjo of the pass), and a meh character.

Sora fills 3 of these hypothetical spots.

I've been lucky so far seeing as season 1 came entirely from series I like, so who knows, I could get lucky one last time.

 

[3BitSaurus]

Sometimes watching a train crash is entertaining.

This isn't that though. This is like people wanting to watch the crash by tying themselves to the tracks.

I'll never get that, really.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Dream fighter pass?

Steve (Minecraft)
Brian (Quest 64)
Impa(Zelda, Oracles version). I want Tingle more, but I feel this is easier to work with.
Shadow (Sonic the Hedgehog)
Fulgore (Killer Instinct)
Morrigan Aensland (Darkstalkers)

 

[RileyXY1]

They might, but I honestly think that a Gen 9 Pokemon might get Zoroark'd

We could see one if Ultimate is still getting DLC by 2022-2023, which is when I think that Gen 9 will be released.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Finally home so I can properly post on here.

So how's everyone enjoying the reveal of FP5 aka Byleth so far?

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Dude, I have been reading your posts towards other people and you sound like a major dbag. Of course you like Joker and hate Banjo so it does describe your loser emo goth personality.

I can't blame people. Sakurai keeps putting lame characters in when you got legendary characters out there like Doom Guy, Sora, Crash, Masterchief, Ryu Hayabusa, etc. that he could pull from. Smash was built on legends: Mario, Donkey Kong, Link, Kirby, Pikachu, Star Fox all in the same game. The early third parties were legends: Snake, Sonic, Megaman, Pacman, Ryu, Cloud. Then it just turned into a thud. Yes we get good ones here and there like Simon Belmont or Banjo-Kazooie but we primarily tend to get these thuds that MOST people don't care about like Joker.

Dude I'm being polite, most people actually liked Joker and Terry, do you want to learn why Nintendo doesn't show everything in advance or do you just want to go "Why can't they just show me exactly what I want?" because if it's the latter, why bother asking?

 

[nessdeltarune00]

What is your dream fighters pass?

Mine is:

Phoenix Wright
Doom Slayer
Crash Bandicoot
Agumon
Kratos
Master Chief

Monokuma
Phoenix Wright or Dante
Master Chief or Doom Slayer
Crash Bandicoot
Jacket (Hotline Miami)
Ryu Hayabusa or Lloyd

 

[Michael the Spikester]

What is your dream fighters pass?

Mine is:

Phoenix Wright
Doom Slayer
Crash Bandicoot
Agumon
Kratos
Master Chief

Crash Bandicoot
Elma
Doom Slayer
Medusa
Kratos
Phoenix Wright

 

[ProfPeanut]

People say Byleth should've been first, but I feel like that's forgetting that everyone was worried about a Three Houses rep between the November Direct and the Joker trailer.

I believe that Byleth showing up before their game came out would've been an even bigger dumpster fire. But since we're well past its release, Byleth was able to build up a good support base to weather the whole thing out and to convince people that they'd actually be deserving of a spot.

If Three Houses turned out to be a bad and undeserving game, however...well, I suppose it's just a good thing that it was received a whole lot better than Pokemon Sword & Shield was.