Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[Hadokeyblade]

Ok, you know what? Could you explain how Sonic got less respect, cause I haven't ran the numbers, but I'm pretty sure Sonic has more content than Persona, and be a decent amount too

Sonic is the only third party series with 2 stages. lol, in that regard it got better treatment than all the others.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Call us back when it outsells Gex 3 xD

Honestly I'm surprised nothing's done with Gex as I feel you can have lots of potential about the writing of some old **** who's obsessed with old TV and movies, humour won't exactly be aged too well but writing around Gex being a boomer can be fun. Like idk, the new villains are getting rid of the old shows to replace them with new ones and Gex wants to stop that, only to go "Yo this **** is actually good" after beating the final boss

 

[volbound1700]

Sonic is the only third party series with 2 stages. lol, in that regard it got better treatment than all the others.

Sonic stages are small copy/pastes from past games. No new music tracks added. Mii Costumes are absolute garbage. Persona got 4 new mii costumes. Sonic got the debauchery that is the Tails Mii Costume. (Why have his face broken off? Why not do it like Sans?).

Castlevania got 2 characters. Why couldn't Nintendo have echoed a second Sonic character. Would be easy.

 

[DrifloonEmpire]

Honestly I'm surprised nothing's done with Gex as I feel you can have lots of potential about the writing of some old **** who's obsessed with old TV and movies, humour won't exactly be aged too well but writing around Gex being a boomer can be fun. Like idk, the new villains are getting rid of the old shows to replace them with new ones and Gex wants to stop that, only to go "Yo this **** is actually good" after beating the final boss

Gex 4 is all about Gex fighting off Netflix and Hulu

 

[nessdeltarune00]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_best-selling_video_game_franchises

I don't see Joker or Terry in that mix (well Persona is way far down if you look hard for it lol). I do see franchises like Crash Bandicoot, Rayman, Halo, Kingdom Hearts, etc. You know, the characters people actually want and are legends. Not the garbage we got. Third-party started so well with Snake, Sonic, Megaman, Pacman, Ryu, Cloud. Then it went downhill.

As stated, Persona got more respect than even the Sonic series which is far more popular and iconic.

I’m sorry Tails got Galleem blasted in the base game.

And out of curiosity, how would you react if Monokuma ever got in? Since you seem to be so against “niche franchises”.

 

[volbound1700]

I’m sorry Tails got Galleem blasted in the base game.

And out of curiosity, how would you react if Monokuma ever got in? Since you seem to be so against “niche franchises”.

Who?

 

[Animegamingnerd]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_best-selling_video_game_franchises

I don't see Joker or Terry in that mix (well Persona is way far down if you look hard for it lol). I do see franchises like Crash Bandicoot, Rayman, Halo, Kingdom Hearts, etc. You know, the characters people actually want and are legends. Not the garbage we got. Third-party started so well with Snake, Sonic, Megaman, Pacman, Ryu, Cloud. Then it went downhill.

As stated, Persona got more respect than even the Sonic series which is far more popular and iconic.

Sales doesn't equal quality, otherwise Captain Price from Call of Duty deserves a spot in Smash more any other franchise. Hell Smash help made lesser known Nintendo franchises more popular like the newcomer from today's reveal. Did you not at all listen to Sakurai when he said fun was the most important factor in Smash characters? I am sorry that mismanage joke of a Hedgehog doesn't get enough love despite having two stages in Smash, multiple asset trophies, Mii costumes, and plenty of music tracks.

 

[Us3inMN]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_best-selling_video_game_franchises

I don't see Joker or Terry in that mix (well Persona is way far down if you look hard for it lol). I do see franchises like Crash Bandicoot, Rayman, Halo, Kingdom Hearts, etc. You know, the characters people actually want and are legends. Not the garbage we got. Third-party started so well with Snake, Sonic, Megaman, Pacman, Ryu, Cloud. Then it went downhill.

As stated, Persona got more respect than even the Sonic series which is far more popular and iconic.

I'm not saying that Sonic isn't iconic, but the Persona series (especially Persona 5 and the upcoming release of Persona 5 Royale) is more popular/relevant today. Now, if Sonic Forces was more successful, I'm sure that a new Sonic character would at least have been considered, but Sonic Forces did not do too well.

Everyone knows Sonic, of course. But adding a Persona 5 character would boost sales of Smash, Persona 5/Persona 5 Royale, the PS4, and the Switch. So Nintendo decided to go that route and make a win-win for Sony, Atlus, and Nintendo.

Also, hate to be that guy, but lets calm down a bit. People are starting to get insulting and it just makes this whole debate look ignorant/make people mad at each other.

 

[Hadokeyblade]

Sonic stages are small copy/pastes from past games. No new music tracks added. Mii Costumes are absolute garbage. Persona got 4 new mii costumes. Sonic got the debauchery that is the Tails Mii Costume. (Why have his face broken off? Why not do it like Sans?).

Castlevania got 2 characters. Why couldn't Nintendo have echoed a second Sonic character. Would be easy.

Persona got4 costumes because it was a newcomer while Sonic is a veteran. There's really no other reason why.

I do agree with you on the music part, thats really weird, smash 4 has one more song than ultimate.

 

[DanganZilla5]

The reason why Joker got in was clearly because of Sakurai's bias. 4 of the 5 franchises in the the fighters pass are franchises Sakurai has openly praised and really enjoy and it's clear this was his dream pass (Just look at how much he fanboyed over Terry). But yeah hopefully for the next fighters pass he leans more toward fan favorites. Still, Joker had merit to be in Smash. Persona 5 was nominated for a bunch of awards and it's lauded as one of the best RPGs in recent years.

 

[RileyXY1]

I think it's more likely we get a Gen 8 Pokemon with more Spirits bundled in with it than a Pokemon from a Gen that won't exist until 2022 at the earliest. By then, Ultimate would be four years old.

This DLC can't last indefinitely.

Sorry, but it's too late for a Sword & Shield Pokemon. If we were getting one then we wouldn't have had a Spirit event, at all. Also, I think that Rillaboom isn't as likely as people think he is. I highly doubt that Sakurai cares about what types are represented on the roster.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Gex 4 is all about Gex fighting off Netflix and Hulu

I had to do a quick google search to check if Gex 4 was an actual thing because I refuse to believe I can have good ideas

Sonic stages are small copy/pastes from past games. No new music tracks added. Mii Costumes are absolute garbage. Persona got 4 new mii costumes. Sonic got the debauchery that is the Tails Mii Costume. (Why have his face broken off? Why not do it like Sans?).

Castlevania got 2 characters. Why couldn't Nintendo have echoed a second Sonic character. Would be easy.

Sonic DID get new songs this game, just because Ultimate got him less new content than the last games doesn't mean he has less respect now. You're not even getting into other stuff like say, Spirits or ATs, the latter of which being something Joker doesn't even have.

Persona 4 and 5's mascot mii costumes have the same 'issue' the Tails one has and it seems only Sans and Cuphead get that level of detail alongside a song. Why that is... You'd have to ask Sakurai

 

[Animegamingnerd]

The issue with Sega representation in Smash its kind of Sega's fault for killing or mismanaging pretty all of their franchises during the 2000's and early to mid 2010's to the point that a lot of them fell out of public consciousness.

 

[nessdeltarune00]

Who?

He’s from Danganronpa.

 

[volbound1700]

He’s from Danganronpa.

What? LOL.

The issue with Sega representation in Smash its kind of Sega's fault for killing or mismanaging pretty all of their franchises during the 2000's and early to mid 2010's to the point that a lot of them fell out of public consciousness.

You can say the same about Megaman, Pacman, Castlevania, etc. Smash has traditionally focused on the iconic games that appear on NINTENDO consoles. Well it did until we got Persona and Terry. Neither were on the NES, Super NES, N64, Gamecube, etc. They aren't even in the top 100 Video Game franchises.

 

[Hadokeyblade]

The reason why Joker got in was clearly because of Sakurai's bias. 4 of the 5 franchises in the the fighters pass are franchises Sakurai has openly praised and really enjoy and it's clear this was his dream pass (Just look at how much he fanboyed over Terry). But yeah hopefully for the next fighters pass he leans more toward fan favorites. Still, Joker had merit to be in Smash. Persona 5 was nominated for a bunch of awards and it's lauded as one of the best RPGs in recent years.

Honestly after this pass I genuinely think that if by some twist of fate I ever met Sakurai in a private area we'd really get along, we seemingly share the exact same interests lol

What? LOL.
You can say the same about Megaman, Pacman, Castlevania, etc. Smash has traditionally focused on the iconic games that appear on NINTENDO consoles. Well it did until we got Persona and Terry. Neither were on the NES, Super NES, N64, Gamecube, etc. They aren't even in the top 100 Video Game franchises.

Persona has games on the 3DS, canonical sequels I might add.

And Terry's games were on SNES, and SNK vs Capcom 2 was on Gamecube, which had him in it.

 

[Elite smash]

1. Witcher DLC
2 Renji Bleach DLC
3 Captain America DLC
4. Beyblade DLC

 

[Cutie Gwen]

What? LOL.



You can say the same about Megaman, Pacman, Castlevania, etc. Smash has traditionally focused on the iconic games that appear on NINTENDO consoles. Well it did until we got Persona and Terry. Neither were on the NES, Super NES, N64, Gamecube, etc. They aren't even in the top 100 Video Game franchises.

Terry's iconic, I showed a friend a picture of him and he excitedly went "Oooh are we getting KoF stuff in Smash?" And he DID have games on Nintendo systems last I checked

 

[volbound1700]

I'm not saying that Sonic isn't iconic, but the Persona series (especially Persona 5 and the upcoming release of Persona 5 Royale) is more popular/relevant today. Now, if Sonic Forces was more successful, I'm sure that a new Sonic character would at least have been considered, but Sonic Forces did not do too well.

Everyone knows Sonic, of course. But adding a Persona 5 character would boost sales of Smash, Persona 5/Persona 5 Royale, the PS4, and the Switch. So Nintendo decided to go that route and make a win-win for Sony, Atlus, and Nintendo.

Also, hate to be that guy, but lets calm down a bit. People are starting to get insulting and it just makes this whole debate look ignorant/make people mad at each other.

I agree with you somewhat. I am alright without having a 2nd Sonic Rep in favor of a quality third-party character from another series. I would like them to clean up the Mii Costumes though.

However, we are not getting good third-party representatives like Crash, Doomguy, Rayman, Sora, Masterchief, etc. You know the big hitters.

 

[nessdeltarune00]

What? LOL.

Yes, because God forbid people want characters you aren’t familiar with.

Gaming is a vast medium, you know.

 

[volbound1700]

Yes, because God forbid people want characters you aren’t familiar with.

Or 90% of gamers lol.

 

[Tony Scott]

Dream FP2
2B/ A2/ Kaine/ Zero any yoko rep tbh.
Kat Gravity Rush
Devil may cry rep any of the primary characters
Fatal Frame Protagonist
Resident Evil Rep or to not double up on capcom, senran kagura rep.
Travis Touchdown

As for fp5 being byleth pretty neutral. I don’t mind fire emblem characters, most of the time they are good and relatively fun, there was definitely better choices though but seeing people get mad salty is pretty funny.

 

[Us3inMN]

What?
You can say the same about Megaman, Pacman, Castlevania, etc. Smash has traditionally focused on the iconic games that appear on NINTENDO consoles. Well it did until we got Persona and Terry. Neither were on the NES, Super NES, N64, Gamecube, etc. They aren't even in the top 100 Video Game franchises.

Persona 5 is getting an official spinoff/sequel hybrid on the Switch later this year. Plus, Persona Q and Persona Q2 were both on the 3DS and sold relatively well.

 

[PLATINUM7]

Gex 4 is all about Gex fighting off Netflix and Hulu

Like the Regular Show and streaming.

The issue with Sega representation in Smash its kind of Sega's fault for killing or mismanaging pretty all of their franchises during the 2000's and early to mid 2010's to the point that a lot of them fell out of public consciousness.

Sega will rerelease Mega Drive games a million times but will sparingly do anything new with their franchises.

 

[PhantomShab]

The reason why Joker got in was clearly because of Sakurai's bias.

Reminder that you're sharing this planet, this existence, with people who will deny that Sakurai has any bias.

 

[Animegamingnerd]

What? LOL.



You can say the same about Megaman, Pacman, Castlevania, etc. Smash has traditionally focused on the iconic games that appear on NINTENDO consoles. Well it did until we got Persona and Terry. Neither were on the NES, Super NES, N64, Gamecube, etc. They aren't even in the top 100 Video Game franchises.

Terry has a long history on Nintendo then Sonic does.

Yes Konami and Capcom mismanage Mega Man and Castlevania, but nowhere near as bad Sega did with all of its franchises. For ****s sake Sonic is a franchise that has had way more bad games then Mega Man or Castlevania, you and I both know that.

 

[MooMew64]

volbound1700 Just curious, do you honestly think that gaming only revolves around your tastes and what you deem "iconic"? 'Cause y'all being pretty dang rude about...literally everything, actually.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Or 90% of gamers lol.

You have this attitude despite claiming stuff like this doesn't actually exist

I suggest using this magical site called 'google' to fact check that kind of stuff before acting like you know stuff for a fact

 

[Schnee117]

You'd think people could do basic research.

 

[nessdeltarune00]

Or 90% of gamers lol.

“Whether the character is fun to play as is more important than its recognizability”

 

[Nesysli]

Honestly if Sakurai has a bias towards a game series, it's generally for good reason. They're probably a very quality, influential game series. And I think he knows what's best when deciding what to add. ( and in certain cases like with fans wanting Banjo & Kazooie for 20 years so he decides on them rather than Minecraft or Halo) I think we can trust his judgement.

 

[GoodGrief741]

Hey, I would take Byleth or any FE/Pokemon pick over the emo trash that was Joker any day of the week. Joker got better representations than even the ****ING SONIC THE HEDGEHOG series which is 5x popular. Sakurai could have at least fixed the debauchery that was the Tails costume.

Joker is terribly represented, his kit is made up from nothing and is not at all how Personae work. In contrast Sonic has more stages, more music, more ATs, more Spirits. There's literally nothing that Sonic has less of than Persona.

well Persona is way far down if you look hard for it

So it is on the list then.

Terry

Well SNK fighters thrived on arcades, so you ain't going to find much about sales data but they were really successful.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Terry has a long history on Nintendo then Sonic does.

Yes Konami and Capcom mismanage Mega Man and Castlevania, but nowhere near as bad Sega did with all of its franchises. For ****s sake Sonic is a franchise that has had way more bad games then Mega Man or Castlevania, you and I both know that.

Ehhhhh I don't know if it's fair to bring the quality of the games into the argument as despite how badly Sonic can **** the bed, the games still sell pretty well on average

 

[Animegamingnerd]

Honestly if Sakurai has a bias towards a game series, it's generally for good reason. They're probably a very quality, influential game series. And I think he knows what's best when deciding what to add. ( and in certain cases like with fans wanting Banjo & Kazooie for 20 years so he decides on them rather than Minecraft or Halo) I think we can trust his judgement.

Honest to god, I trust Sakurai's opinions on games way more than I trust anyone in Smash community's opinion on anything at this point.

 

[Us3inMN]

Again, I hate to be the guy to say this, but let's chill a little bit. This is getting close to becoming just straight up insults, and I don't think mods would take too kindly to that.

 

[Deleted member]

You'd think people could do basic research.

On this forum? On this specific thread? May I see it?

 

[Tony Scott]

“Whether the character is fun to play as is more important than its recognizability”

Volbound just seems rather young mentally tbh. Y’all arguing with him is silly.

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

You know, I find myself coming to this site out of habit. Open a new window, type "smash" into the search bar and let Firefox carry me here for another hit.

Smash speculation really is like a bad drug. I come here expecting to find a high only to find another inane argument by people who can't use Google to research basic points.

It just gets disappointing after a while.

 

[volbound1700]

volbound1700 Just curious, do you honestly think that gaming only revolves around your tastes and wehast you deem "iconic"? 'Cause y'all being pretty dang rude about...literally everything, actually.

Let's be honest, in US (biggest gaming market), RPGs are already a partially niche market. The live-action RPGs like Elder Scrolls, Diablo, Witcher have been more successful. Final Fantasy is probably the most dominate turn based strategy. Tales and Dragon Quest are decently popular as well but you are starting to get more niche. Fire Emblem probably comes in after them.

First-Person Shooters dominate consoles. Right now, for example, Doom is dominate. I had PS3, I saw Unchartered, Left 4 Dead, Borderlands, Bioshock, etc. Those were the big franchises. Never heard of Persona.

PC is dominated by strategy (Starcraft, Civilization, Total War, Europa Universal, Sim City, Space 4xs, etc.)

Nintendo series are dominated by Nintendo 1st party platforms, Sonic games, Ports, Square-Enix Series.

Xbox has Halo, Gears of War, Fallout, etc.

Yes, I know gaming. You can't deny all of these franchises above dominate the media. Go to IGN, Gamespy, etc. The only time that I ever heard of Joker was Smash. Literally.

 

[Dreamking]

Byleth's reveal might have been more palatable to me if the ones in Ultimate's base game would have been: Marth, Roy, Ike, and Robin.

Second, Despite being another FE character, I do appreciate that he plays very different from the typical FE character.

Third, about the costumes. I would have liked Cuphead as a playable character. Just too many great music tracks from his series. I would have accepted the FP5 outcome if it had been Assassin's Creed with Ezio and alt Altair or the reverse. Since Altair is a costume, I do think the door is still open for Ezio to be playable.