Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[Michael the Spikester]

I wonder if they'll actually use up all 16 slots.

We know their filling up 12 of them between Piranha plant and the 2 seasons.

Would like that.

90 (92) playable characters would be great to end this games run with. Not to say this wouldn't be either because it would be if the DLC ends with Challenger 11.

 

[SvartWolf]

I decided to take a look at Capcom's franchises and unless I missed someone there's only one Capcom protagonist who isn't able to fight. Would this normally be an issue?.

Villager... and he is in MVC3...

Don't do this to you. Phoenix biggest hurdles are just Dante, Monster Hunter, Morrigan and Amateratsu... and maybe Resident Evil?

Still, there is tons that could be done with Smash Ultimate DX withouth putting too much ephasis on newcomers and asuming that it's gonna be on a console with more processing power.

New costumes for every character could be an easy selling point to use it can be a new costume based on either teh character's history or a costume that makes sense with the character the character with 4 recolors (Twilight princess zelda, wedding bowser, Bayoneta's 3 bayonetta, Light suit Samus,) or if the character doesn't have very interesting alternatives like Captain Falcon, create one (like sharp dressing captain Falcon, etc..) Plus one extra "fun costume" as a character cosplaying as someone from a spirit battle (Kirby as a DR mario virus, Zelda as Charlotte Aulin, Donkey Kong as Goron, Etc..) Also would help to give teh game a fresh look.

This would make it tempting for people that want to play the game and would otherwise watch let'splay on the singleplayer content.

More Bosses would be certainly fun little challenges that don't alienate teh balance of the game, plus you can rep even more characters (Eggman, Giratina, Kraid, etc...)

More modes specially to spice 8 player smash. and big stages. Coin battles could create interesting team dinamics in say 4v4 scenarios. And a king of teh hill mode (or board the platform) could really spice a lot big stages like palutena temple.

While charcter based break the targets certainly are a big ordeal considering the amount of characters, one per character is still pretty doable considering you have resources for a new game and you are reusing teh meat of teh previous game, meaning that you don't have to develop much stages and stuff)

Assist trophies could also get a little overhaul, mostly in a game mode where you could choose to fill a bar or fulfill some criteria to summon them, rather than random spawning, in order to implement them into battle strategies. and maybe some could do assist attacks kinda like how assit worked on teh first Marvel vs Capcom game.

Smash run could also make a comeback, with enemies and all.

Classic mode is actually quite cool but still could get a big makeover. more bosses, modes and characters (the DLC) means that you could make a very fun minigame in itself Add the personalized break teh targets as a bonus stage, and add different layers to the other bonus stage (like designing 6 more tracks, and designate one depending of teh difficulty) and add some silly ministory or flavour text to teh penultimate battle (wouldnt be as complicated as creating one palutena guidance for every character, big but doable) and implementing the other bosses, and better implementing Assist trophies and even smash run enemies into the "opponents roster".

Spirits could also recieve an overhaul, writing a brief flavour description for all of them would also be looong, but we are considering that you are using resources that don't need to be destinated to recreate the entire roster since you are reusing it.

With all teh new resources and modes, i think it would be pretty doable to do an interesting World of light 2.0, while not too time consuming, (and is teh kind of content that would help to sell teh game) Also giving the NPCs (trainers, Shop keepers and Explorers) the "Stage cameo makeover" ( a model and a couple of animations) along with some quirky chit chats would also help represent characters that otherwise wouldnt be represented in a economic way. (maybe also Reuse assist trophies as NPCs?)

Also, once you unlock a spirit determine a character with a specific spirit setup to use against it and treat it as a "locked spirit fight" that would completely replace what were events in other smashs, and that you can access whenever you like in the Spirits gallery. you stil lwould be able to fight said spirit however you like in world of light and spirit board, but the locked one should be more challenging, annd a way to flesh more teh spirits battle, instead of teh normal battles than usually ended being a little too inconsequential. Between this and teh flavour text, i think that would make teh spirits waaay more interesting as a gallery, and more exciting once they get added like in events.

At this point teh game could have such an extent of character models, stage cameos, stages, bosses, enemies, etc etc etc... that an interesting snapshot mode that let put different models and animations in a stage and take pictures and it would be practically a new game mode on itself. and give a ton more worth for people that aren't into competitive experiences.

Also Palutena's guidance and codecs for the newer characters would also be welcome.

AAAnd i'm not even talking about a mii fighters overhaul that could give more value to mii costumes, a stage builder expansion or a exploration metroidvania collectathon that could be created with all this asssets..

Basically, there is a ton you could do with such an amazing library of characters and assets if you could allocate resources for a new game withouth having to remake the roster or heavily expanding it in order to sell it as a new game.

 

[Professor Pumpkaboo]

How is the music in 3H? Never played it before.

let me play the song of my people

 

[Deleted member]

Just realized we're getting 18 unique newcomers for Smash Ultimate, which is only two short of Smash 4's newcomer total. Pretty good.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I believe they've patched the number up and down a bit too. It's only there incase they decide they need it

They have? I never heard of any changes beyond it becoming bigger at best.

Huh.

Though it's the alts I'm interested in, as I said. Makes sense they change up the placeholders as they need 'em.

 

[JustMyself13]

Honestly, I still think Doom Slayer is not as likely as people think. My main issue is that even among other M rated choices, he's a lot more brutal than most of them and part of his personality is that he's ruthless and brutal. The gore and violence showcases that. Obviously that'll be removed but I imagine some of his attacks(Chainsaw and some other weapons) will be removed too, which will hamper him.

I know DC vs Mortal Kombat exists and is proof violent characters can work well but MK can funnily enough, be transferred into a more friendly setting than Doom. And Doom Slayer is a bit more realistically violent than other characters like Travis, who is a bit over the top to the point of comedy.

I mean I am likely wrong but I feel like Doom Slayer would be way too butchered if he got in.

Doom was never really about glory kills or EXCESSIVE violence until Doom 2016, so if Sakurai prioritizes classic Doomguy as he normally does with legacy franchises, there shouldn’t be an issue.

 

[Ivander]

Only thing it says is Smash fans for some reason still have the silly "ewww Fire Emblem bad" mindset after all this time.

It's unfortunate, but eh, can't please everybody. People overhyped FP5 to kingdom come and when it didn't do something god-shattering, they got mad at the result.

1. Fixed.
2. Yeah, it's sad when people don't keep their hype in check.

 

[Mushroomguy12]

I decided to take a look at Capcom's franchises and unless I missed someone there's only one Capcom protagonist who isn't able to fight. Would this normally be an issue? Yes, but this is Smash Bros. Sakurai could explain his whole charm about fighting without actually fighting. I still want the Ace Attorney, Phoenix Wright to be in smash.

View attachment 258182

And until he is made a spirit or a Mii costume and/or another Capcom rep makes it in first, I'm not gonna give up.

Isn't able to fight? Excuse me, but this guy is literally capable of beating up the Avengers, thank you very much.

 

[Sc_Ev0lution]

Let's see, I can't say I wanted Byleth, but their moveset won me over. I'll eagerly try out the Edelgard skin day 1. The mii costumes were a good mix of old and new, tho 3/4 gunners is a bit much. I'm glad Rabbid and Cuphead are in as costumes, an agreable compromise for me.

But with the new costumes comes a wrinkle in an old premise. I think some of you remember indie ladder theory? tl;dr, indie content has been growing in importance since the base game: first the Shantae spirits and SK spirits and assist trophy, then the Sans mii costume. Indie ladder theory supposes that this growing importance will culminate in a playable character. However with the Cuphead mii costume, we see another inde character as not-a-playable-character. This suggests indie ladder theory is more like an "indie glass ceiling theory," that seemingly no indie character can break thru to full playable status. Does Cuphead's costume diminish the chances of Reimu, the Knight, Gunvolt, and others? Only time will tell...

Oh, on an unrelated note, and this is of the upmost importance: now that it's confirmed future dlc will take the form of another Fighters Pass, can we adjust our nomenclature? When talking about the dlc seasons, we should use FP for Fighters Pass, and when talking about the characters, we should use CP for Challenger Pack. For example: "My favorite newcomer in FP1 was CP2, Hero"

As for FP2, I think it's way too early to tell who it's gonna be. We know they've been decided upon since at least November 2019, probably a while before, and not much else. And while it's hard to clear the Zeitgeist from any prediction list, I'll do my best for fun:

Wishlist
CP6: Reimu Hakurei
CP7: Marisa Kirisame
CP8: Tiz/Agnes/Edea/Ringabell (Either one or all of them)
CP9: KOS-MOS
CP10: Gemini Sunrise
CP11: Ryu Hyabusa

Predictions
CP6: Ryu Hyabusa
CP7: Dante
CP8: Reimu Hakurei
CP9: KOS-MOS / Heihachi Mishima
CP10: Crash / Doom Guy / Masterchief
CP11: Someone I don't see coming

 

[Dr. Jojo Phantasma]

As a big 3H fan, I couldn't be anymore thrilled. I preferred Edelgard, but Byleth using the weapons of the house leaders was a great outcome.

 

[Krankees]

Villager... and he is in MVC3...

Isn't able to fight? Excuse me, but this guy is literally capable of beating up the Avengers, thank you very much.

I know he can fight in MvC3, I've just had friends bring up to me that even if he could fight, they wouldn't be actual fighting moves (they especially bring up the sneeze in MvC3) which I think still isn't a good reason to exclude him.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Isn't able to fight? Excuse me, but this guy is literally capable of beating up the Avengers, thank you very much.

I mean, he's not fighting so much as using strange moves. He's not doing literal attacks or anything.

Wii Fit Trainer literally fights more in comparison.

The moveset is awesome, but he doesn't do actual battles in the same way as many others. The only character who doesn't literally fight but still has a cool moveset in Smash is Isabelle. Phoenix would still be a really cool option, and Smash already can work with characters who don't literally fight. Strange moves work fine too. Fun is more important, after all.

 

[Deleted member]

I didn't realize the December 2021 part until I watched the presentation for a 4th time. 6 characters with nearly 2 full years of development is going to be a doozy especially since 4/5 of the Fighter Pass was released within the 1 year anniversary of Smash, but I could understand if the reason being for the date is if Sakurai's looking to focus on working 1 character at a time with Vol 2 from this point on. Working on multiple characters at once must've been pretty rough, so perhaps doing 1 character at a time will make it easier on everybody except us cause we're going to be fighting each other until the bitter end!

 

[Team Scorpion]

I know people like making connections/conspiracies, so I'm about to throw one out here pretty quick.

- The first DLC fighter for the Fighters Pass was Joker.
- The final DLC fighter for the Fighters Pass was revealed today.
- The 5th DLC fighter for the Kombat Pack for Mortal Kombat 11 was revealed today - same day as the final Fighters Pack 1 fighter.
- Said fighter is none other than The Joker.
- Ed Boon has teased he is willing/wanting MK rep in Smash.

Wishful thinking? Coincidence? Who knows.

 

[Guynamednelson]

so perhaps doing 1 character at a time will make it easier on everybody

That would actually take 3 years to complete this pass. Rather, I think they've just downsized to a team that can only work on 2 at a time instead of 3.

 

[GoodGrief741]

Sakurai should add whoever, all I care about is how they play

Who says that, though? I know the Smash fanbase can be hypocritical, but I've never seen a FE whiner say that.

Let me ask you something, then:

Would you still say that if it was your favorite characters and franchises getting in? Is it truly that you believe that there's something wrong here, or are you just upset it wasn't something that appeals to you? Honest question here.

Everything you just said could be spinned onto any franchise. Why is it only applicable to FE?

I love FE and I'm happy for Byleth but I do acknowledge that there's clearly some favoritism going on.

 

[N3ON]

"but Fire Emblem bad" is no good, but I also notice that when confronted with the "but so many other series have viable options and don't get the same amount of love, despite being relatively equally prevalent with a comparable amount of fans, hence some of the resentment" the answer, and I'm paraphrasing, is usually tantamount to "but Fire Emblem good", which really is the other side to the same coin.

Like earlier I expressed how other series were just as accomplished yet receive a fraction of what FE does, and all I got was, as far as I can tell, some indirect backhand comments about being salty or something.

If you like FE more than those other series that's cool (I enjoyed Three Houses a lot), but what about all those other fans? Doesn't seem fair to me. It's not like I'm biased, I'm not even that big on Kirby or Xenoblade or any of that. I enjoyed Awakening and 3H more than any Kirby game I played in the last, like, ten years. And from a personal standpoint, I think Rex and Pyra are some of the worst-designed characters in Nintendo's stable, I don't want to see them added to Smash. I even excluded Isaac from my JRPG sword-fighter Fighter Pass, lol.

But I mean, Xenoblade only has one character. Since the last Kirby newcomer, there's been six FE characters added. It's just out of whack, no matter how good Fire Emblem is. The other series are good too. The other series are successful too. The other series have fans too.

 

[Professor Pumpkaboo]

Sakurai can keep loving FE as long as he continues to give good FE characters

I still couldn't control Chrom tho, how do

 

[h2ogre]

2B seems pretty likely.

-Sakurai has played and loves the game.
-She is among the most requested characters in Japan and America.

 

[Sysreq]

Honestly, I still think Doom Slayer is not as likely as people think. My main issue is that even among other M rated choices, he's a lot more brutal than most of them and part of his personality is that he's ruthless and brutal. The gore and violence showcases that. Obviously that'll be removed but I imagine some of his attacks(Chainsaw and some other weapons) will be removed too, which will hamper him.

I know DC vs Mortal Kombat exists and is proof violent characters can work well but MK can funnily enough, be transferred into a more friendly setting than Doom. And Doom Slayer is a bit more realistically violent than other characters like Travis, who is a bit over the top to the point of comedy.

I mean I am likely wrong but I feel like Doom Slayer would be way too butchered if he got in.

I can't really picture Doom Slayer getting in either. I just can't for some reason. Call me illogical but I don't think he fits the "Smash aesthetic" which is light-hearted and goofy. You can quote me on it up and down but I don't think Doom Slayer will be in Ultimate. Just my take.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Sakurai can keep loving FE as long as he continues to give good FE characters

I still couldn't control Chrom tho, how do

Can you play Roy well? If so, that's a start.

 

[Professor Pumpkaboo]

Can you play Roy well? If so, that's a start.

*snaps fingers* There is the problem, I very rarely touched Roy

 

[Icewolff92]

Akira

Yes, please. That game is great (not to mention the music... how it didn¨t get nominated for the best soundtrack is beyond me), and the movement potential is exceptional. I know they are spirits, but there is still a lot of spirit potential so here¨s hoping

 

[Mushroomguy12]

I mean, he's not fighting so much as using strange moves. He's not doing literal attacks or anything.

Wii Fit Trainer literally fights more in comparison.

The moveset is awesome, but he doesn't do actual battles in the same way as many others. The only character who doesn't literally fight but still has a cool moveset in Smash is Isabelle. Phoenix would still be a really cool option, and Smash already can work with characters who don't literally fight. Strange moves work fine too. Fun is more important, after all.

He fights about as much as Mr. Game and Watch, ROB, Duck Hunt Dog, etc. Wii Fit Trainer also does strange moves, I don't think her attacks are any more literal than his.

 

[TheAJJohnson]

Thoughts:

- I had a feeling in my gut that it was Byleth. The fact that we got a spirit board for Daemon X Machina , SwSh, and Astral Chain but not FE:TH was suspicious. Also the fact that leakers couldn't pin down the third-party company was suspect.

- I'm super happy for all of the fans of FE:TH. Fire Emblem is a cool franchise and I've been tempted to buy this game, but I've got to be selective about my time and which games I want to drive into. Since it's a gamble for me whether I'll like it or not, I've avoided taking the plunge. That being said, their moveset looks unique and they no doubt will be fun to play, but I'm still absolutely "MEH" about this pick. I have no connection to characters like Crash, Tracer, and Doomguy, but any of them would have been way cooler than Byleth. Additionally, unrepresented franchises (from a character standpoint) from Nintendo themselves, like Isaac or the Chorus Kids, would be way more exciting than rehashing FE, which brings me to my next point...

- When it was said (somewhere...I can't remember who and when) that the DLC was going to add "new game worlds" that weren't represented, I didn't know that Fire Emblem - the franchise with the 3rd most reps, a total of 7, which is more than Zelda - qualified under that umbrella. I feel like some people feel shafted by FP5 in that regard.

- I'm pumped for the second fighter pass! 6 characters is awesome! I truly feel like some of the "big picks" will be making it in. If I were to predict right now based off of the limited information we have, I would say we'd get Geno, Crash, something Bethesda, Ryu, something Namco, and something Nintendo. I also have suspicions about Rayman with the Altair and Rabbids costumes being revealed...

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

He fights about as much as Mr. Game and Watch, ROB, Duck Hunt Dog, etc. Wii Fit Trainer also does strange moves, I don't think her attacks are any more literal than his.

They also use real fighting techniques, so not really. Slamming somebody with a hammer is an actual weapon attack. Firing lasers too. Duck Hunt even has guns in his moveset. That's a lot more "real" than Phoenix is.

Wii Fit Trainer actually attacks with things like legs and elbows. Phoenix was not designed to be a regular fighter. He was designed with an intentionally different moveset that isn't based around fighting, but weird moves that makes for a fun character.

Phoenix works fine as a character, but he's definitely not using fighting moves whatsoever. And I take it back, Isabelle even uses those too a bit. So he'd be the first stand-out with zero fighting techniques. Which is still a good thing too, since you don't need to be willing to fight to join Smash.

 

[3BitSaurus]

Let me ask you something, then:

Would you still say that if it was your favorite characters and franchises getting in? Is it truly that you believe that there's something wrong here, or are you just upset it wasn't something that appeals to you? Honest question here.

Everything you just said could be spinned onto any franchise. Why is it only applicable to FE?

Neutral on Byleth, but I'm with Drifloon on this one. And what he said isn't really applicable to any franchise. Not when only two other series have as many (or more) characters than FE and only one of these two is in the same condition of "always getting a new character for their latest game in every Smash since its debut".

In the same vein that I can get that Joker, or Hero, or Banjo and Kazooie or Terry wouldn't resonate with everyone, not everyone will get hyped at another FE character.

 

[SvartWolf]

I can't really picture Doom Slayer getting in either. I just can't for some reason. Call me illogical but I don't think he fits the "Smash aesthetic" which is light-hearted and goofy. You can quote me on it up and down but I don't think Doom Slayer will be in Ultimate. Just my take.

Doom games do have a more concise palette than your usually "colorful" game, but it doesn't means that they use ton of color richness along that pallette, specially in teh red department. and honestly... doom is light-hearted and goofy, also over the top which imo is an important factor for fitting into most japanese media (think Kiryu for example, if you only saw a photo of him during one of teh heavier cutscenes, it wouldnt look like smash material, but when yakuza start going full on throttle on goofiness, over the top and expressive cool animation, then he fits perfectly IMO) Imo is more important how expressive teh character can be, and i think that Doomguy certainly fits teh quota, not because face expression, but because body expressions.

And also fast mobile gameplay with importance on stage control and positionig helps a lot to translate well into smash IMO.

 

[Mushroomguy12]

They also use real fighting techniques, so not really. Slamming somebody with a hammer is an actual weapon attack. Firing lasers too. Duck Hunt even has guns in his moveset. That's a lot more "real" than Phoenix is.

Wii Fit Trainer actually attacks with things like legs and elbows. Phoenix was not designed to be a regular fighter. He was designed with an intentionally different moveset that isn't based around fighting, but weird moves that makes for a fun character.

Phoenix works fine as a character, but he's definitely not using fighting moves whatsoever. And I take it back, Isabelle even uses those too a bit. So he'd be the first stand-out with zero fighting techniques. Which is still a good thing too, since you don't need to be willing to fight to join Smash.

Phoenix is also using lasers in his moveset. He also is throwing projectiles such as evidence, as well as using the Judge to hammer his opponents. Sure, they wouldn't literally be that damaging, but neither would many of the moves in Isabelle, WFT, etc's movesets.

 

[Hadokeyblade]

- When it was said (somewhere...I can't remember who and when) that the DLC was going to add "new game worlds" that weren't represented, I didn't know that Fire Emblem - the franchise with the 3rd most reps, a total of 7, which is more than Zelda - qualified under that umbrella. I feel like some people feel shafted by FP5 in that regard.

Well you see in the games universe Three houses takes place in a different universe than the other games, so it still applies under "new game worlds"

 

[volbound1700]

I am not super upset about Ryleth but I can empathize with the people that are. Interesting that the Mii Costumes in the last two passes have been more exciting than the actual character lol.

 

[Krankees]

Phoenix is also using lasers in his moveset. He also is throwing projectiles such as evidence, as well as using the Judge hammer his opponents. Sure, they wouldn't literally be that damaging, but neither would many of the moves in Isabelle, WFT, etc's movesets.

The only thing I can't imagine from that pool is Phoenix firing lasers from evidence since that was only added cause it's Marvel. Throwing evidence definitely is a valid move to bring and maybe the Judge slamming the hammer could be a possible final smash.

 

[GoodGrief741]

I don't think everyone agrees with me, some people probably just hate FE and are salty, but I think a huge problem for a lot of people is...

Well, let me put it this way. The problem isn't that FE is getting characters to such a degree. The problem is that no other series is. And Fire Emblem, successful as it may be, is far from a one of a kind phenomenon for Nintendo.

Hell, if it's growth that's rewarded, then Splatoon should already have like 5 characters. Its success story is much more impressive.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Phoenix is also using lasers in his moveset. He also is throwing projectiles such as evidence, as well as using the Judge hammer his opponents. Sure, they wouldn't literally be that damaging, but neither would many of the moves in Isabelle, WFT, etc's movesets.

The lasers don't even make sense with him. They were struggling with it for that move. Why would he fire a laser? That stands out a lot from the rest of it, which at least fit the character/series. That said, the Villager comparison only partially works in concept.

Judge's Hammer I'll give you, though(but only kind of. Mr. Game & Watch's Hammer is a traditional one used in fighting. Judge's Hammers are not). And sorry, since when is slamming somebody with an elbow not a fighting move? It always was, and has been for a while now. Isabelle has other tools that work for regular fighting.

Wii Fit Trainer never stood out beyond being a choice people didn't expect. Many of her/his moves actually are usable for real fighting. That's something more with Villager/Isabelle, who use household objects. But they also use tools that can be for real fighting anyway, like an Ax. They're not as much of clear fighters as Wii Fit Trainer is, though. Or R.O.B.(who is a robot firing lasers, which actually makes sense).

 

[King Sonnn DeDeDoo]

I don't think everyone agrees with me, some people probably just hate FE and are salty, but I think a huge problem for a lot of people is...

Well, let me put it this way. The problem isn't that FE is getting characters to such a degree. The problem is that no other series is. And Fire Emblem, successful as it may be, is far from a one of a kind phenomenon for Nintendo.

Hell, if it's growth that's rewarded, then Splatoon should already have like 5 characters. Its success story is much more impressive.

I think an Octoling character would be fun. Echo, semi-clone, unique whatever.

 

[Nesysli]

I did find it odd we didn't get a Rayman costume. I know he's a spirit and the absence of evidence is not evidence but it seems weird he wasn't revealed. I know he could get revealed as Mii costume later but he's a cult gaming icon in the US & Europe, especially France. Maybe Sakurai will have a Rayman & Reimu reveal lol. Besides he did say that moveset potential and having fun with the character was more important or something along those lines.

 

[SvartWolf]

I don't see why Phoenix fighting with words, speech bubbles, maybe sighs and different body language (basically communication) is a problem, don't layers fight with words anyway?

 

[cothero]

I have no idea about who's gonna be the next characters, but i'm 100% sure one of them is going to be a Pokémon from S&S. Rex might be one of them too, but i don't think Samurai is as fond of Xenoblade as he is of Fire Emblem (freaking EIGHT characters, goddamnit).

 

[Sysreq]

I don't see why Phoenix fighting with words, speech bubbles, maybe sighs and different body language (basically communication) is a problem, don't layers fight with words anyway?

Is there an argument going on about how Phoenix would fight? It would be with random bull**** like how Isabelle uses random bull****.

I have no idea about who's gonna be the next characters, but i'm 100% sure one of them is going to be a Pokémon from S&S. Rex might be one of them too, but i don't think Samurai is as fond of Xenoblade as he is of Fire Emblem (freaking EIGHT characters, goddamnit).

After seeing the presentation for Pokemon DLC, I could easily see Urshifu being DLC with a style-change gimmick or something.

 

[Krankees]

I don't see why Phoenix fighting with words, speech bubbles, maybe sighs and different body language (basically communication) is a problem, don't layers fight with words anyway?

I don't see it as a problem. I see it as exactly how he would play. I only brought up the whole fighting moves thing because I don't believe it's an actual issue for him.