Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[h2ogre]

Here is a question that may or may not be used for theory crafting.

How many slots were datamined? In WOL and the other thing?

And the most important part: were they found before or after Plants release?

After his release. Also Jokers slot was named (Jane), but was later changed to (Jack). It is believed that Jill valentine was meant to be where joker is now, but was removed or pushed back to later.

He probably was add because of how popular Banjo is in the Smash fanbase + his history with Nintendo. I personally think we might see one other western third party in the second fighter pass but not more.

Who do u think it would end up being. Personal attachment aside

 

[Animegamingnerd]

Can someone tell me why sakurai decided to finally include 1 western rep? Do u think he will do it again and how come?

Because people after all these years would not shut up about and let go of Banjo, that is why he went for a third party western rep. Only western rep I see is maybe Doom Slayer, since I expect to see characters like Dante, Travis Touchdown, Ryu Hyuubsa, and another first party rep or two.

 

[Ridrool64]

1989 pages, let's go Arle. Even though I think this'll open up page 1990.

 

[slrigeigdew]

I decided to take a look at Capcom's franchises and unless I missed someone there's only one Capcom protagonist who isn't able to fight. Would this normally be an issue? Yes, but this is Smash Bros. Sakurai could explain his whole charm about fighting without actually fighting. I still want the Ace Attorney, Phoenix Wright to be in smash.

View attachment 258182

And until he is made a spirit or a Mii costume and/or another Capcom rep makes it in first, I'm not gonna give up.

I'm fully on board. For me, Nick is the only character with a reasonable chance whose inclusion would have the same emotional impact as Joker's reveal. The only reasonable counter point I've seen to him is that his "non fighter in a fighting game" gimmick has already been done by other characters () but as Sakurai has already shown, he's no stranger to reusing concepts.

 

[CapitaineCrash]

Who do u think it would end up being. Personal attachment aside

I'd say either Steve or Crash bandicoot. Steve is really huge and the fact that Minecraft still don't have any representation despite Sakurai wanting to be a video game celebration is weird to me. Crash is, just like Banjo, very popular in the Smash fanbase. It might also bee Doom slayer, but I'm not really sure about him.

 

[nessdeltarune00]

three that i know of

Banjo (Buddy) Hero (Brave) Joker (jack)

I meant the 15 and 30 slots found.

 

[DarthEnderX]

That December 2021 date on Fighter Pass 2 seriously has me concerned. That means that 4 months between characters could become the new norm, and that sounds agonizing...

The only thing that would make a release schedule like that tolerable is if Fighter Pack releases were interspersed with Echo Fighter Packs.

 

[MooMew64]

Still at least that as long as the FE3H love outweights the hate i honestly think that there won't be much to worry. Ive seen a lot of FE3H positivity for places that weren't into FE before. IMO, if the game had had a reception similar to fates it would have been a disaster, but I think that this game can pull through.. So far teh numbers ive seen regarding Byleth reveal the positivity still clearly outwheights the negativity.

Like to dislike ratio is still leaning more towards positive on YT last I checked.

 

[NurpNurp]

I meant the 15 and 30 slots found.

iirc it was ~16-17

 

[BernkastelWitch]

Honestly, I still think Doom Slayer is not as likely as people think. My main issue is that even among other M rated choices, he's a lot more brutal than most of them and part of his personality is that he's ruthless and brutal. The gore and violence showcases that. Obviously that'll be removed but I imagine some of his attacks(Chainsaw and some other weapons) will be removed too, which will hamper him.

I know DC vs Mortal Kombat exists and is proof violent characters can work well but MK can funnily enough, be transferred into a more friendly setting than Doom. And Doom Slayer is a bit more realistically violent than other characters like Travis, who is a bit over the top to the point of comedy.

I mean I am likely wrong but I feel like Doom Slayer would be way too butchered if he got in.

 

[DarthEnderX]

Like to dislike ratio is still leaning more towards positive on YT last I checked.

Considering most of the other trailers are, like, 95% positive, the fact that this one is only "leaning more towards positive" isn't saying much.

 

[Nemuresu]

Here is a question that may or may not be used for theory crafting.

How many slots were datamined? In WOL and the other thing?

And the most important part: were they found before or after Plants release?

Sixteen in total. And afaik, they were discovered before Plant came out. But later on, the dataminers found out that the DLC characters weren't taking the free slots, but rather creating new ones. Still, I'm not sure if the slots mean anything anymore, because I don't see a third season with just four characters in.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Sixteen in total. And afaik, they were discovered before Plant came out. But later on, the dataminers found out that the DLC characters weren't taking the free slots, but rather creating new ones. Still, I'm not sure if the slots mean anything anymore, because I don't see a third season with just four characters in.

welp

sakurai going for the big century confirmed, hold on to y'alls butts

 

[Hadokeyblade]

I wonder if they'll actually use up all 16 slots.

We know their filling up 12 of them between Piranha plant and the 2 seasons.

 

[Wrathful_Scythe]

Byleth is an alright character. I wasn't at the edge of my seat but I don't dislike Byleth. The problems I have with him/her would be the moveset, not his/her character. Keeping in mind that people overhyped themselves and just about anyone, short of maybe Dante or the Chief, would be a disappointment for many, this outcome was to be expected. That said, a disliked video and some outcry on the internet doesn't matter at all and will fade in a few days anyway.

6 new characters is very interesting, though. Seems this madness will continue for a while. People still can hope for their favorite pick until their hope gets crushed by the end of next year. Unfortunate that we didn't get any additional info on what would be the opening act for the 2nd Pass but pretty sure that it will be a grand reveal for a hype character to sell more passes.

 

[DarthEnderX]

I guess if we are talking about our personal wish lists and expectations for Fighters Pass Vol. 2:

1. Ryu Hayabusa [Ninja Gaiden]
2. Bill Rizer/Lance Bean [Contra]
3. Arthur [Ghosts ‘n Goblins]
4. Kunio/Riki [River City Ransom]
5. Bub/Bob [Bubble Bobble]
6. Nathan Spencer [Bionic Commando]

 

[Dark Bagel]

With additions of characters like Joker, Banjo, Ridley, and Terry; alongside Mii costumes coming from Assassin's Creed, Undertale, and Cuphead; I think it's fair to say that we're reaching M.U.G.E.N. levels of absurd, unexpected character and franchise interactions that would have been thought impossible a few years ago. This makes me wonder, what are some truly bonkers fighter/franchise combinations that you guys would like to see in Smash in the near-future? Skyrim x iDOLM@STER? Half-Life x Style Savvy?

 

[Dinoman96]

Honestly, if we were to get a western oriented FPS franchise in Smash, I'd actually really prefer Master Chief.

I just think there's inherently something more visceral about the idea of Master Chief, who's been seen as the face of one of Nintendo's biggest competitors in the hardware market, jumping around in the same game with Mario, Link, Sonic and Cloud. Like Doom guy is cool and all, but I don't feel like he'd really wreck the house in the same way Chief's announcement would.

I suppose the main reason Doom guy seems to have more pull than Chief is because the former has a bigger history on Nintendo consoles, whereas right now the latter's only appearance is through a skin in Minecraft. But that could change. Plenty of reliable insiders like King Zell have been hinting at Halo coming to Switch for awhile now, and Microsoft already has its foot in the door in Smash with Banjo & Kazooie. I'm not entirely sure how likely it is that they would add a series only mostly popular in the west in a game that's primarily tuned for Japanese audiences, but I feel like if Sakurai/Nintendo really want to top Cloud and get people pissing their pants in excitement again, Master Chief is an option.

 

[h2ogre]

There is room for 11 more characters

With additions of characters like Joker, Banjo, Ridley, and Terry; alongside Mii costumes coming from Assassin's Creed, Undertale, and Cuphead; I think it's fair to say that we're reaching M.U.G.E.N. levels of absurd, unexpected character and franchise interactions that would have been thought impossible a few years ago. This makes me wonder, what are some truly bonkers fighter/franchise combinations that you guys would like to see in Smash in the near-future? Skyrim x iDOLM@STER? Half-Life x Style Savvy?

starting from leon.
no,no, maybe, maybe,no, maybe

 

[Mamboo07]

I hope Capcom gets at least one character for the second pass. Dante, Phoenix, Amaterasu, etc. At the very least one would be nice.

Agree, my most wanted rep for Capcom is Nergigante from Monster Hunter.

 

[BernkastelWitch]

With additions of characters like Joker, Banjo, Ridley, and Terry; alongside Mii costumes coming from Assassin's Creed, Undertale, and Cuphead; I think it's fair to say that we're reaching M.U.G.E.N. levels of absurd, unexpected character and franchise interactions that would have been thought impossible a few years ago. This makes me wonder, what are some truly bonkers fighter/franchise combinations that you guys would like to see in Smash in the near-future? Skyrim x iDOLM@STER? Half-Life x Style Savvy?

See this is the kind of thing I like Smash is doing: Going the unexpected route, even with Mii costumes. It's better than the usual "Safe" choices I usually see and these crazy/offbeat/niche choices would add more personality to Smash. And I am glad Ultimate is giving lesser known or commonly thought impossible characters a lot more support.

And I hope we have more niche/absurd characters in Wave 2.

 

[MooMew64]

Considering most of the other trailers are, like, 95% positive, the fact that this one is only " leaning more towards positive" isn't saying much.

Only thing it says is Smash fans for some reason still have the silly "ewww Fire Emblem bad" mindset after all this time.

It's unfortunate, but eh, can't please everybody. People overhyped FP5 to kingdom come and when it didn't do something earth shattering, they got mad at the result.

 

[mynameisBlade]

Last 6 in a perfect world.

1. Doom Slayer
2. Geno
3. Crash Bandicoot
4. Steve
5. Ryu Hayabusa
6. Waluigi *surprise*

 

[Guybrush20X6]

Of all western characters, including the ones that are spirits, the biggest ones in terms of hype would be Crash Bandicoot, Doom Slayer/Guy/Marine, Dragonborn, Steve Minecraft and Sir Fortnite Esq. All a new fanbase that hasn't necessarily made up part of Smash's before. (old school sony fans, First person shooter games, western RPG, survival/crafting, dabbing simulator)

Shantae, Shovel Knight and Rayman have pull within the existing fanbases of Smash, probably why they have their roles in game in the first place. I hope for a promotion but I'd take Mii Costumes (b/w sick beats) too.

 

[Mamboo07]

Only thing it says is Smash fans for some reason still have the silly "ewww Fire Emblem bad" mindset after all this time.

It's unfortunate, but eh, can't please everybody. People overhyped FP5 to kingdom come and when it didn't do something earth shattering, they got mad at the result.

You know what they say... "It's is foolish to have hopes and dreams."

 

[Kokiden]

Only thing it says is Smash fans for some reason still have the silly "ewww Fire Emblem bad" mindset after all this time.

It’s not that FE as a series is bad. It’s more why is it another FE character, for a grand total of 8 and possibly more to come, when there are so many fantastic series and characters that could’ve debuted in smash.

I think some people really can’t grasp this idea for some reason.

The entire cast for TH could get in and people would still find a way to justify why that’s ok lol.

 

[Jomosensual]

So, now that most fan theories have been shown to be pointless and wrong, isn't speculation pretty much just saying what characters you want in the game?

Won't stop anyone from making obviously wrong and bad theories like color theory and belt theory

 

[Droodle]

So since we all need a little positivety in the thread sometimes, what games are y'all playing and/or looking forward to this year? It doesn't have to be related to Smash if you don't want it to be.

Currently, I just beat (like literally now) Trails in the Sky. After hearing good things about it for a while, I got it back in October and finally got around to playing it over December. I have to say it was pretty dang good overall; reminded me a ton of old school JRPGs like Golden Sun. The ending was pretty cool, and I immediately bought Trails in the Sky Second Chapter afterwards. Overall, I'd recommend it if you could get through the slow start.

Estelle would be pretty cool in Smash not gonna lie (another anime JRPG character I know, shoot me if you want).

Other then that I've been playing through DQ 11S, but that's been on hiatus for a while. DQ is good, but didn't really hook me the same way as Trails. Will probably return to it soon. I remember I beat DQ 9 when I was a kid, but that's pretty much it with the series for me.

Games that I'm looking forwards to this year would be things like XC:DE, FE:TH DLC, Mario, NMH 3, but most of all any new Zelda game that comes out. I was thinking of getting P5 Royal; but I've heard that it's not a huge improvement over P5, so I'll probably skip it. Obviously, looking forward to any Smash DLC that is announced.

 

[DrifloonEmpire]

Good morning Smashboards.

Still the same Lesley Black Velvet in a new body.

Missed me?

No, not really. And that won't change if you start acting smug...

Only thing it says is Smash fans for some reason still have the silly "ewww Fire Emblem bad" mindset after all this time.

It's unfortunate, but eh, can't please everybody. People overhyped FP5 to kingdom come and when it didn't do something earth shattering, they got mad at the result.

People did overhype FP5 but why won't people accept that not everyone likes or cares about Fire Emblem? There's some people acting obnoxious but I really hate the stigma this community has towards legitimate disappointment towards characters in the Modern FE/Persona/Platinum Games bubble.

People have different interests, but only some interests are actually respected around here, and if said interest is too cartoony it is looked down upon. Not caring about FE or Persona doesn't make you closed minded, it just mean you have preferences like everyone else.

Fire Emblem has gotten more than enough of the red carpet treatment and the precedent that future FE games will always get a rep is appaling.

I don't want to ruin anyone's hype, but really, the only thing worse than a toxic detractor is a smug, obnoxious winner.

Spit on me if you want, someone's gotta say it.

 

[MooMew64]

It’s not that FE as a series is bad. It’s more why is it another FE character, for a grand total of 8 and possibly more to come, when there are so many fantastic series and characters that could’ve debuted in smash.

I think some people really can’t grasp this idea for some reason.

The entire cast for TH could get in and people would still find a way to justify why that’s ok lol.

I get that. I really do respect that view: Not everyone needs to like every choice.

However, I find it incredibly ironic this fanbase is the same one to say "Sakurai should add whoever, all I care about is how they play" but then it's Fire Emblem and now what people are saying is "He shouldn't just add whatever! Franchises with X amount of reps don't deserve more!"

Just interesting to me.

 

[nessdeltarune00]

Here is a theory I thought of.

Weren’t there also 30 dummy slots discovered at one point?

So far, the waves of non echo newcomers have gone like this.

Base

Inkling
Ridley
Simon Belmont
King K Rool
Isabelle
Incineroar

Wave 1

Piranha Plant
Joker
Hero
Banjo Kazooie
Terry Bogard
Byleth

Wave 2

TBA
TBA
TBA
TBA
TBA
TBA

What do all of these waves have in common? They are all waves of 6, of course. After FP2, concludes, there will hypothetically be 18 remaining to my knowledge. If there is anything I’m missing, feel free to correct me.

Could they possibly be doing 3 more passes as well? That are also waves of 6? It would perfectly line up with that, but idk if its a bone worth biting atm.

 

[Cosmic77]

Not that I want the development team to rush or anything, but Sakurai's comments on BotW make me hopeful that we could get a character from BotW 2 if it can release this year. It's probably wishful thinking, but man, I would love to be wrong.

I would say Metroid Prime 4 as well, but that's probably not happening anytime soon. Besides, we got Ridley and Dark Samus in one game, so I can't complain.

 

[I.D.]

(another anime JRPG character I know, shoot me if you want).

lol no need to keep this farce up. Joker and Hero don't have tens of thousands of dislikes on their videos. It's pretty clear by now people's beef is with Fire Emblem specifically.

 

[Cosmic77]

Here is a theory I thought of.

Weren’t there also 30 dummy slots discovered at one point?

So far, the waves of non echo newcomers have gone like this.

Base

Inkling
Ridley
Simon Belmont
King K Rool
Isabelle
Incineroar

Wave 1

Piranha Plant
Joker
Hero
Banjo Kazooie
Terry Bogard
Byleth

Wave 2

TBA
TBA
TBA
TBA
TBA
TBA

What do all of these waves have in common? They are all waves of 6, of course. After FP2, concludes, there will hypothetically be 18 remaining to my knowledge. If there is anything I’m missing, feel free to correct me.

Could they possibly be doing 3 more passes as well? That are also waves of 6? It would perfectly line up with that, but idk if its a bone worth biting atm.

I think the more logical conclusion is that Sakurai or whoever programmed the extra slots added them just in case they needed them. I doubt they ever had a specific number in mind.

 

[nessdeltarune00]

I think the more logical conclusion is that Sakurai or whoever programmed the extra slots added them just in case they needed them. I doubt they ever had a specific number in mind.

Yeah, you’re probably right.

 

[TerminatorLOL]

Honestly, I still think Doom Slayer is not as likely as people think. My main issue is that even among other M rated choices, he's a lot more brutal than most of them and part of his personality is that he's ruthless and brutal. The gore and violence showcases that. Obviously that'll be removed but I imagine some of his attacks(Chainsaw and some other weapons) will be removed too, which will hamper him.

I know DC vs Mortal Kombat exists and is proof violent characters can work well but MK can funnily enough, be transferred into a more friendly setting than Doom. And Doom Slayer is a bit more realistically violent than other characters like Travis, who is a bit over the top to the point of comedy.

I mean I am likely wrong but I feel like Doom Slayer would be way too butchered if he got in.

Characters like Ridley already show that you can have brutality in smash just fine. Dude crushed Mario's head and impaled Mega Man in his reveal trailer.


I will never understand why people think a chainsaw is such a no-no weapon. Corian and Bowser Jr. both already have one. Its a gardening tool that isn't designed to kill people, unlike swords and guns .


I don't really see how MK is easier to make "friendly" then Doom. And it doesn't really matter whos game's has more realistic violence when there won't be any gore in Smash, Doom Slayer and Travis would have the same hit sparks when they slash someone.

 

[MooMew64]

People did overhype FP5 but why won't people accept that not everyone likes or cares about Fire Emblem? There's some people acting obnoxious but I really hate the stigma this community has towards legitimate disappointment towards characters in the Modern FE/Persona/Platinum Games bubble.

People have different interests, but only some interests are actually respected around here, and if said interest is too cartoony it is looked down upon. Not caring about FE or Persona doesn't make you closed minded, it just mean you have preferences like everyone else.

Fire Emblem has gotten more than enough of the red carpet treatment and the precedent that future FE games will always get a rep is appaling.

I don't want to ruin anyone's hype, but really, the only thing worse than a toxic detractor is a smug, obnoxious winner.

Spit on me if you want, someone's gotta say it.

Let me ask you something, then:

Would you still say that if it was your favorite characters and franchises getting in? Is it truly that you believe that there's something wrong here, or are you just upset it wasn't something that appeals to you? Honest question here.

Everything you just said could be spinned onto any franchise. Why is it only applicable to FE?

 

[Jomosensual]

So since we all need a little positivety in the thread sometimes, what games are y'all playing and/or looking forward to this year? It doesn't have to be related to Smash if you don't want it to be.

Currently, I just beat (like literally now) Trails in the Sky. After hearing good things about it for a while, I got it back in October and finally got around to playing it over December. I have to say it was pretty dang good overall; reminded me a ton of old school JRPGs like Golden Sun. The ending was pretty cool, and I immediately bought Trails in the Sky Second Chapter afterwards. Overall, I'd recommend it if you could get through the slow start.

Estelle would be pretty cool in Smash not gonna lie (another anime JRPG character I know, shoot me if you want).View attachment 258197

Other then that I've been playing through DQ 11S, but that's been on hiatus for a while. DQ is good, but didn't really hook me the same way as Trails. Will probably return to it soon. I remember I beat DQ 9 when I was a kid, but that's pretty much it with the series for me.

Games that I'm looking forwards to this year would be things like XC:DE, FE:TH DLC, Mario, NMH 3, but most of all any new Zelda game that comes out. I was thinking of getting P5 Royal; but I've heard that it's not a huge improvement over P5, so I'll probably skip it. Obviously, looking forward to any Smash DLC that is announced.

There's soooooo much I'm looking towards getting this year. Right now I'm planning on getting:
Last of Us 2
Resident Evil Remake
MLB the Show 20(was going to skip this one but my favorite player is on the cover)
Persona 5 Royal and Scramble
Pokemon Shield Expansions
Maybe Ghost of Tsushima

And we don't even know a lot of Nintendo's line up yet. Gonna be a great gaming year for me. Also working on Horizon Zero Dawn which has been fantastic

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I think the more logical conclusion is that Sakurai or whoever programmed the extra slots added them just in case they needed them. I doubt they ever had a specific number in mind.

This so much. They're placeholders, not actual outright major fighter data. They have nothing beyond "oh, hey, we can throw the data in here". And that's it.

Besides that, I'm more interesting in the alt slots programmed in. Piranha Plant took two, Joker took two, Hero took four, Banjo & Kazooie took one, Terry took one, and Byleth took two. That's 12 out of 30 so far.

 

[Jomosensual]

This so much. They're placeholders, not actual outright major fighter data. They have nothing beyond "oh, hey, we can throw the data in here". And that's it.

Besides that, I'm more interesting in the alt slots programmed in. Piranha Plant took two, Joker took two, Hero took four, Banjo & Kazooie took one, Terry took one, and Byleth took two. That's 12 out of 30 so far.

I believe they've patched the number up and down a bit too. It's only there incase they decide they need it