Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[Opossum]

This is a good point and made me think differently about showing personality in Smash. I don't agree with 100% of it but I understand how it's a bit more subtle than I thought it was. Thanks for typing this out.

No problem! I'm just kinda passionate about it so I wanted to put my thoughts out there. Thanks for giving it a read.

 

[Calamitas]

I'd argue that Chrom is a little too angry in this game. Though it may just be an issue of certain voice clips being triggered too often.

You seem to be forgetting that one of Chrom's crit quotes was, in fact, "Now I'm angry!".

Shulk should really have unique interactions with ROB, Samus, K Rool, Dedede, Lucina, Palutena, Robin and Snake.
It'd be fun to have him mistaking K Rool and Dedede for Unique Monster variations of Ignas and Tirkins respectively.

"Vile Mechon!"
"I can change the future!" - "The future is not written!" - ". . .Bruh."
"Today, we used our powers to slay a god and then seized our destinies!"

 

[Opossum]

You seem to be forgetting that one of Chrom's crit quotes was, in fact, "Now I'm angry!".

And ironically enough, that's the one Smash changed to "Now I'm mad."

Now I'm mad. >: (

 

[Deleted member]

so I thought I shared my predictions for the rest of smash dlc from the wol datamine where there’s 11 left now. users on twitter hatted it but I’m sure some of you don’t cuz this is a newcomer speculation thread. What do you guys think?

Somehow I’m thinking chief is 5.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

If the argument is sales as opposed to cultural influence or notoriety, it falls apart pretty easily in my humble opinion. Sales can be used to show how large a series is, but it should be blatantly obvious that Fire Emblem is going to have a hard time being as big as Pokemon, Mario, or Zelda. Just like Metroid. Just like Kirby. Just like Xenoblade. Like Kid Icarus.

What I feel is being missed here, is the connection to how many characters a certain set of sales numbers can warrant. However, considering we're talking about a fighting game/party game that doubles as a mascot fighter, I think we're missing key details.

Smash isn't a popularity contest 100% of the time. Some characters get in based on circumstances that other characters aren't eligible for. Nintendo is a business, and certain characters get in because of Nintendo being a business. Half the reason a portion of Nintendo's smaller IP are performing better is because of fan exposure through Smash. If you don't believe that, I recommend taking a look at Xenoblade Chronicles remastered, and Xenoblade Chronicles 2, as well as the momentum shift Fire Emblem has had since it was first included.

Let's not forget: Fire Emblem started as a largely Japan-only series.

Characters get in because of popularity, unique gameplay, and asset usage. Daisy got in not just because she's popular. She got in as an Echo fighter. She was seen as a way to flesh out the roster using assets. It's the same way Richter Belmont got in, in addition to the fact that he's more popular than Simon elsewhere in the world. Dark Samus was a request, and was able to be easily fit onto a Samus moveset. Same thing with Chrom in Ultimate, as well as Lucina and Dark Pit in Wii U/3DS.

It's easy to say, "They could have added clones from other series!" but I'd love to know who those characters would be when, frankly, we can't actually say what Sakurai himself thinks of those characters. We could argue that people wanted Dixie Kong, but...really? K.Rool fans were much louder, and based on speculation surrounding K.Rool, his popularity was hardly recognized until the ballot. Dixie probably wasn't an obvious choice to Sakurai if that's anything to go off of. That's not to throw shade at Dixie either, I think she'd be great.

For reference:

Spoiler: Sales and Characters

Mario- ~$675 million across sub series/main series, 9 unique movesets
Pokemon- ~$346 million across series, 10 unique movesets
Zelda- ~$97.72, 6 characters
Metroid~$17.47 million, 4 characters (including 1 echo)
Kirby ~$38 million, 3 characters
Animal Crossing~$33 million, 2 characters
Fire Emblem- ~$8 million
Wii Fit- $43.7million, 1 fighter

I could go on, but based on the stats I posted, if it's coming down to "sales = playable characters", then technically Pokemon should just over half as many as Mario, Zelda should have far fewer than that, but in proportion, all other series should have, like, 1 character.

However, this would be a poor business strategy. If Smash exposes fans to new characters, scenery, music...why would you not use it as a vehicle to push the success of smaller series and therefore engineer more success for themselves? Nintendo needs to make money, and generating interest in smaller series by including content from them does just that. Games like Xenoblade and Fire Emblem cannot grow unless being put into people's vision, which is exactly what Smash has done.

But it doesn't come down to that, and that alone. Clearly, if it did, the Wii Fit Balance board should be playable. It's clear that having characters to choose from, that are unique, that are requested by fans, and in some cases fit in through the usage of assets. That explains Metroid having more characters than Animal Crossing despite being far smaller, Fire Emblem having several more characters than Wii Fit despite being outsold 5 times.

Sales don't tell you everything. But that's besides the point. Smaller series wouldn't have grown or succeeded in the ways they have had they not been introduced to a broader fanbase in Smash first. Would XC2 be nearly as successful without Shulk in Smash? I'm not entirely sure to be honest.

Either way, silly argument that doesn't have much going for it when you break it down. It's one thing to have your own beliefs in what the Smash roster should be, but it's quite clearly not of the same vision that the development team has.

EDIT: To clarify, this doesn't include merchandise sales. Only sales of the games themselves.

 

[Opossum]

so I thought I shared my predictions for the rest of smash dlc from the wol datamine where there’s 11 left now. users on twitter hatted it but I’m sure some of you don’t cuz this is a newcomer speculation thread. What do you guys think?
View attachment 255386
Somehow I’m thinking chief is 5.

Well, to start, Crash and Frogger are two of my top three most wanted characters, so that's definitely a plus.

 

[Deleted member]

And ironically enough, that's the one Smash changed to "Now I'm mad."

Now I'm mad. >: (

Clearly angry is too violent. It's like how Morgana's "time for some bloodshed" was changed to "time for some brutality."

Male Robin not having the proper taunt line while female Robin does really irks me

 

[3BitSaurus]

I don't know if someone has already brought up the new placeholder Switch SKUs from Gamestop, it's usually a somewhat reliable indicator that a Direct is coming soon

There was a problem fetching the tweet

.

This chart shows how big was the timegap between new SKUs showing up and past Directs

Spoiler

Source:https://www.reddit.com/user/MPw13/c...and_actual/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x

It was posted before, but it was buried in about 5 pages of arguments about FE, so I wouldn't blame you.

...I love how even when we do have something to look forward to, the thread would rather engage in the same cycle of someone hating on FE, then 20 people dogpiling on said person. Just Wednesday, really.

Anyway. Considering the whole "Direct on a Tuesday, release on Wednesday" thing most characters seem to have done, there would be four possible scenarios: 7th/8th, 14th/15th, 21st/22nd and 28th/29th. The two middle pairs are closer to the Dark Samus and Richter amiibo releases (17th, I think), thus making sense for a game update. So while people seem to be banking on the first two, I wouldn't take mid-to-late January out of the equation yet.

 

[EricTheGamerman]

If this is how you guys react to someone thinking they went overboard on FE representation I'd wonder what the reception to someone actually hating it would be.

It would be one thing to just say it and move on, but it's another to keep insisting upon this point and doubling down. And it has happened with regularity since Smash 4 had the "audacity" to include 2 new FE characters, so most of us are just tired of hearing about it and don't give a damn how many characters each series gets because it really does not matter and the concept of Sales = Reps has always been dumb (and it also laser focuses on a character select screen while ignoring literally every other relevant element to "representation" of any given franchise in the process).

So, yeah, I have no issue being snarky about this lol.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

What’d I miss aside from new SKU listings?

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Both genders have a great line there. The delivery on "I win" is silly, and female Corrin has a line so lame it wrap around to being amazing.

The first comment on that video is "She's secretly CDI Zelda". lol

If this is how you guys react to someone thinking they went overboard on FE representation I'd wonder what the reception to someone actually hating it would be.

They're treated the same to be honest. It doesn't take much to get the thread in a heated debate. I try my best to not be rude but the thread as a whole tends to try and squash opinions they don't like, causing the minority opinion holder to feel attacked.

so I thought I shared my predictions for the rest of smash dlc from the wol datamine where there’s 11 left now. users on twitter hatted it but I’m sure some of you don’t cuz this is a newcomer speculation thread. What do you guys think?

Frogger's dumb. Everyone else can stay.

Though if we did get Frogger I'd probably love him anyway because that's just who I am. Unless I didn't like how he played. Then I'd be sad.

...I love how even when we do have something to look forward to, the thread would rather engage in the same cycle of someone hating on FE, then 20 people dogpiling on said person. Just Wednesday, really.

Drama that doesn't emotionally affect me and can be left at any time is best drama. Also I like stating my case. It's fun.

 

[EricTheGamerman]

...I love how even when we do have something to look forward to, the thread would rather engage in the same cycle of someone hating on FE, then 20 people dogpiling on said person. Just Wednesday, really.

Anyway. Considering the whole "Direct on a Tuesday, release on Wednesday" thing most characters seem to have done, there would be four possible scenarios: 7th/8th, 14th/15th, 21st/22nd and 28th/29th. The two middle pairs are closer to the Dark Samus and Richter amiibo releases (17th, I think), thus making sense for a game update. So while people seem to be banking on the first two, I wouldn't take mid-to-late January out of the equation yet.

I mean, some nondescript SKUs in GameStop's system doesn't really give us anything to talk about and we've had plenty of discussions regarding an expectation for a January Direct since it makes sense for Nintendo across the board given how lowkey their plans for 2020 have been and fighter #5's deadline is fast approaching and we've been on that since The Game Awards, so there's just not a lot to talk about period even if their is a vague idea of a Direct to look forward to.

 

[3BitSaurus]

What’d I miss aside from new SKU listings?

...Nothing worth it, really.

I mean, some nondescript SKUs in GameStop's system doesn't really give us anything to talk about and we've had plenty of discussions regarding an expectation for a January Direct since it makes sense for Nintendo across the board given how lowkey their plans for 2020 have been and fighter #5's deadline is fast approaching and we've been on that since The Game Awards, so there's just not a lot to talk about period even if their is a vague idea of a Direct to look forward to.

You say that, but the last time we got SKUs, this thread got to trying to decipher which games would be revealed next along with the possible Smash reveal.

Also, something I noticed: the DS/Richter amiibos didn't have a release month until relatively recently. The fact that their months were revealed only one or two months ago considering that they've always released a new character with new amiibos and the rest of the amiibo lines had their dates revealed way earlier compared to these two also seems to be pointing to CP5 being released in January, ahead of "schedule".

 

[Yacobo]

It would be one thing to just say it and move on, but it's another to keep insisting upon this point and doubling down. And it has happened with regularity since Smash 4 had the "audacity" to include 2 new FE characters, so most of us are just tired of hearing about it and don't give a damn how many characters each series gets because it really does not matter and the concept of Sales = Reps has always been dumb (and it also laser focuses on a character select screen while ignoring literally every other relevant element to "representation" of any given franchise in the process).

So, yeah, I have no issue being snarky about this lol.

I keep bringing up similar points because similar arguments keep being made without debunking any of my own(except about the FE character personality one which i was wrong about) and people keep going back and forth on the "FE is popular enough, actually" to "Popularity doesn't matter anyway"
How else am I supposed to respond to arguments that FE is popular other than comparing it to other IPs?

 

[PeridotGX]

so I thought I shared my predictions for the rest of smash dlc from the wol datamine where there’s 11 left now. users on twitter hatted it but I’m sure some of you don’t cuz this is a newcomer speculation thread. What do you guys think?
View attachment 255386
Somehow I’m thinking chief is 5.

When you get past the lack of faith in first parties by not technically being a first party

It's an OK list

 

[osby]

Clearly angry is too violent. It's like how Morgana's "time for some bloodshed" was changed to "time for some brutality."

I'm still waiting for a patch to add "don't **** with a witch" taunt to Bayonetta.

It's a perfectly sensible reason to give Smash an M rating.

 

[Yacobo]

I could go on, but based on the stats I posted, if it's coming down to "sales = playable characters", then technically Pokemon should just over half as many as Mario, Zelda should have far fewer than that, but in proportion, all other series should have, like, 1 character.

There should be a cap somewhere. If we take the argument to that extreme, then that would happen. I don't understand why you think someone who doesn't think FE should have 7+ characters also wouldn't want this.

However, this would be a poor business strategy. If Smash exposes fans to new characters, scenery, music...why would you not use it as a vehicle to push the success of smaller series and therefore engineer more success for themselves? Nintendo needs to make money, and generating interest in smaller series by including content from them does just that. Games like Xenoblade and Fire Emblem cannot grow unless being put into people's vision, which is exactly what Smash has done.

The thing is you can only expose people to something once or twice. Smash has done it so many times that this argument doesn't explain or justify the 5 or so many times we got new FE characters. If anything this is an argument against FE and more for series that haven't gotten to use smash as a promotional tool.

But it doesn't come down to that, and that alone. Clearly, if it did, the Wii Fit Balance board should be playable. It's clear that having characters to choose from, that are unique, that are requested by fans, and in some cases fit in through the usage of assets. That explains Metroid having more characters than Animal Crossing despite being far smaller, Fire Emblem having several more characters than Wii Fit despite being outsold 5 times.

Wii Fit is a bad example. It's not a game that's made for Smashs core audience. It's more for the casual side of Nintendo that doesn't try to appeal to Nintendos main audience, which Smash does.


I don't understand how people wave off Sales when nobody has been able to give another reason for Mario to get so many characters.

 

[Deleted member]

I'm still waiting for a patch to add "don't **** with a witch" taunt to Bayonetta.

It's a perfectly sensible reason to give Smash an M rating.

M Rated Patch:

• Added "Don't **** with a witch" taunt to Bayonetta.
• Snake is now allowed to smoke.
• Joker's All-Out Attack now features blood instead of sparkles.
• Mai Shiranui can now appear on King of Fighters Stadium.

 

[I.D.]

Smash isn't a popularity contest 100% of the time. Some characters get in based on circumstances that other characters aren't eligible for. Nintendo is a business, and certain characters get in because of Nintendo being a business. Half the reason a portion of Nintendo's smaller IP are performing better is because of fan exposure through Smash. If you don't believe that, I recommend taking a look at Xenoblade Chronicles remastered, and Xenoblade Chronicles 2, as well as the momentum shift Fire Emblem has had since it was first included.
(...)
Games like Xenoblade and Fire Emblem cannot grow unless being put into people's vision, which is exactly what Smash has done.

I don't know if I believe that. It really doesn't seem to me like Smash has done much for either of those. The most you can say is that it helped bring Fire Emblem to the West and even then it wouldn't become popular until much later with Awakening. In fact unless you believe the developers were exaggerating the series got almost cancelled at some point even after making it into Smash.

Similarly you can see Xenoblade's 2 success as merely the product of Nintendo actually advertising it instead of actively sabotaging their own game (remember Operation Rainfall?). Also the 3DS port of Xenoblade that some people thought Shulk was advertising didn't sell well at all.

 

[lordvaati]

M Rated Patch:

• Added "Don't **** with a witch" taunt to Bayonetta.
• Snake is now allowed to smoke.
• Joker's All-Out Attack now features blood instead of sparkles.
• Mai Shiranui can now appear on King of Fighters Stadium.

- William Birkin, Nemesis and Dr. Salazar Spirits added.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

I'm still waiting for a patch to add "don't **** with a witch" taunt to Bayonetta.

It's a perfectly sensible reason to give Smash an M rating.

She actually did have that line in her trailer (obviously censored).

I keep bringing up similar points because similar arguments keep being made without debunking any of my own(except about the FE character personality one which i was wrong about) and people keep going back and forth on the "FE is popular enough, actually" to "Popularity doesn't matter anyway"
How else am I supposed to respond to arguments that FE is popular other than comparing it to other IPs?

The reasoning is that your argument is two fold: Fire Emblem isn't popular enough to justify what it has, and Fire Emblem shouldn't have as many characters as the Super Mario, Pokémon, and The Legend of Zelda series because they aren't as popular.

The common belief is that Fire Emblem does have the popularity to justify what it has. People also believe that popularity, while important, isn't everything, and there are many other things to consider when adding characters. Lastly, not everyone believes that Fire Emblem, and the other series that you mentioned should even be compared in the first place.

Personally, considering that Fire Emblem has 5 full characters and 2 quick extra characters, and Pokémon has straight up 10 characters, I think there isn't much point in comparing the two.

 

[Yacobo]

I don't know if I believe that. It really doesn't seem to me like Smash has done much for either of those. The most you can say is that it helped bring Fire Emblem to the West and even then it wouldn't become popular until much later with Awakening. In fact unless you believe the developers were exaggerating the series got almost cancelled at some point even after making it into Smash.

Similarly you can see Xenoblade's 2 success as merely the product of Nintendo actually advertising it instead of actively sabotaging their own game (remember Operation Rainfall?). Also the 3DS port of Xenoblade that some people thought Shulk was advertising didn't sell well at all.

This is another point I forgot to make. Advertising via smash slots has appeared to barely help at all.

FE6's sales weren't remarkable

Fates, while the best selling in the series at that time, only barely sold above awakening despite Corrin in Smash AND having multiple versions.

DQ11s's sales being unremarkable despite Hero being in Smash.

 

[EricTheGamerman]

I keep bringing up similar points because similar arguments keep being made without debunking any of my own(except about the FE character personality one which i was wrong about) and people keep going back and forth on the "FE is popular enough, actually" to "Popularity doesn't matter anyway"
How else am I supposed to respond to arguments that FE is popular other than comparing it to other IPs?

https://mynintendonews.com/2019/10/...-106000000-in-its-first-year-of-availability/

If you're going to insist on this, at least be willing to acknowledge the success of Fire Emblem Heroes which has earned over half a billion dollars in revenue as of October 2019.

Basically Fire Emblem has become a super successful IP in recent years and it doesn't matter how successful the IP is since that doesn't actually correlate to how many characters a franchise gets in Smash and never has in some sort of easy to digest formula. Different circumstances dictate different outcomes for franchises in Smash and they will never be on an even playing field. But Fire Emblem has become successful enough thanks to the massive sales in Heroes and the consistent upswing in mainline title sales (sans Shadows of Valentia because it was a late 3DS remake) that even if there was originally a problem with the representation (which there wasn't and is a subjective point that clearly the majority of people posting here do not share your subjective conclusion on the matter), it's become big enough for this to be a complete non issue.

 

[lordvaati]

I don't know if I believe that. It really doesn't seem to me like Smash has done much for either of those. The most you can say is that it helped bring Fire Emblem to the West and even then it wouldn't become popular until much later with Awakening. In fact unless you believe the developers were exaggerating the series got almost cancelled at some point even after making it into Smash.

Similarly you can see Xenoblade's 2 success as merely the product of Nintendo actually advertising it instead of actively sabotaging their own game (remember Operation Rainfall?). Also the 3DS port of Xenoblade that some people thought Shulk was advertising didn't sell well at all.

The Xenoblade 3DS port had a lot of external factors that hurt it's sales though- mist notably it being a n3DS exclusive and the downloadable version being larger than default n3DS SD cards.

 

[Yacobo]

Personally, considering that Fire Emblem has 5 full characters and 2 quick extra characters, and Pokémon has straight up 10 characters, I think there isn't much point in comparing the two.

Firstly even if we straight up didn't count Lucina/Chrom the rankings would barely change(only being behind zelda which still feels disingenuous because it has 3 semi clones and y.link only being back because of everyone is here)

Second Chrom/Lucina have above the minimum effort for echoes so waving them off as if they're like daisy/richter feels dishonest.

Third this implies that echoes are this nothing that everyone gets, when most series don't and FE has the most out of anyone.

Comparing it to Pokemon is also a bad comparison because it absolutely wouldn't have had 10 without the massive boost "everyone is here" gave it and FE having the same number of characters as it in Smash 4.

If you're going to insist on this, at least be willing to acknowledge the success of Fire Emblem Heroes which has earned over half a billion dollars in revenue as of October 2019.

I have, multiple times. It's a ludicrous comparison for many reasons.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

This is another point I forgot to make. Advertising via smash slots has appeared to barely help at all.

FE6's sales weren't remarkable

Fates, while the best selling in the series at that time, only barely sold above awakening despite Corrin in Smash AND having multiple versions.

DQ11s's sales being unremarkable despite Hero being in Smash.

Roy was Japan only so a significant chunk of gamers couldn't buy his crappy game.

This is bad how? It still sold over 3 million, an impressive feat regardless

Considering Persona 5 R isn't doing too hot in Japan, there's a good chance that S sold less than gangbusters as it's a game that was already available on ps4, PC and 3ds 2 years prior

 

[Yacobo]

Roy was Japan only so a significant chunk of gamers couldn't buy his crappy game.

It was very unimpressive even by those standards.

This is bad how? It still sold over 3 million, an impressive feat regardless

One of the main arguments defending Corrin was advertising for Fates. I don't know about you but I don't see how an extra 50,000 or so sales should make me happy about a character getting in Smash.

 

[GoodGrief741]

People who like Fire Emblem: I think FE's amount of characters is just fine

People who don't like Fire Emblem: I think that's too many FE characters

Both sides: *try to argue their sides*

Both sides also: Jesus troll just admit you like/don't like FE

Y'all seriously never considered both sides have valid points? Man, ring in the new year with some change. It's getting tiring.

 

[Animegamingnerd]

Man reading the past few pages, makes me wonder if some you were actually angry at the critical acclaim and sales success of Three Houses?

 

[Cutie Gwen]

It was very unimpressive even by those standards.


One of the main arguments defending Corrin was advertising for Fates. I don't know about you but I don't see how an extra 50,000 or so sales should make me happy about a character getting in Smash.

How much did the average Japan only game sell back in 2001 then? Cause from what I saw, it ranked at 29th of the 300 best selling games of the year in Japan, hardly unimpressive


You're confusing business decisions with fan demand, people weren't going "Oh I hope Corrin makes it in Smash to advertise Fates!" Sakurai went "Right, I want to promote a new game and Corrin has unique potential that I'm only able to use now". I understand that you hate Fire Emblem as Fire Emblem took your wife and ****ed your crops but can you actually make any points beyind crying? Not to mention you never answered my question on who you'd actually like to see in Smash, so I'm halfconvinced that you're so obsessed with Fire Emblem you care about nothing else

 

[lordvaati]

Dread it, run from it, destiny still arrives.

Edelgard, Dimitri, Claude, and everyone at the Officer’s Academy wish you all a happy New Year! pic.twitter.com/ntofrChePl

— Nintendo of America (@NintendoAmerica) January 1, 2020

 

[Yacobo]

How much did the average Japan only game sell back in 2001 then? Cause from what I saw, it ranked at 29th of the 300 best selling games of the year in Japan, hardly unimpressive

https://www.neogaf.com/threads/fire...-sales-outsold-awakenings-first-week.1073602/

Assuming this is accurate it only sold around half as much as the best selling FE game of that time.

You're confusing business decisions with fan demand, people weren't going "Oh I hope Corrin makes it in Smash to advertise Fates!" Sakurai went "Right, I want to promote a new game and Corrin has unique potential that I'm only able to use now"

Considering the promotion didn't work and being unique isn't some amazing thing only Corrin could do, I'd say that was a bad move.

Not to mention you never answered my question on who you'd actually like to see in Smash, so I'm halfconvinced that you're so obsessed with Fire Emblem you care about nothing else

I haven't answered it because it's irrelevant to the conversation and it's clear you're just looking for things to attack someone being critical of FE.

 

[EricTheGamerman]

I have, multiple times. It's a ludicrous comparison for many reasons.

It's only ludicrous because its inconvenient for your narrative. Money is money to a company and they aren't going to really care where the source of income is coming from, and a game that has absolutely continued to pull in revenue hand over fist only being beaten by the likes of Pokemon Go from Nintendo's side (Which has pulled in 3 billion dollars last I checked). The comparison is right there where it outsells Animal Crossing and Mario that have had mobile titles. That's as goddamn relevant of a comparison as you're going to get for any title. Fire Emblem is one of their most profitable brands now. FULL STOP. $600,000,000 is a lot of goddam money that few other franchises will be able to compete with, and that's completely separate from the revenue they do pull in with the official mainline releases like Three Houses selling 2 million in a months time.

And if you want to go even further, Pokemon is actually such a huge brand because it makes a **** load of its money from non video game related stuff like anime and merchandise, so brand has more reach than just the sales of mainline titles.

 

[Cosmic77]

People who like Fire Emblem: I think FE's amount of characters is just fine

People who don't like Fire Emblem: I think that's too many FE characters

Both sides: *try to argue their sides*

Both sides also: Jesus troll just admit you like/don't like FE

Y'all seriously never considered both sides have valid points? Man, ring in the new year with some change. It's getting tiring.

Pretty much this.

Sadly, stereotypes are part of the reason why we continue to fall into the same arguments. Both sides lable each other as either whiny or a fanboy respectively, so instead of taking a more respectful "I hear what you're saying, but here's where I disagree," approach, it turns into a contest of who can be more condescending and drag the other through the mud.

 

[toonito]

...I love how even when we do have something to look forward to, the thread would rather engage in the same cycle of someone hating on FE, then 20 people dogpiling on said person. Just Wednesday, really.

Anyway. Considering the whole "Direct on a Tuesday, release on Wednesday" thing most characters seem to have done, there would be four possible scenarios: 7th/8th, 14th/15th, 21st/22nd and 28th/29th. The two middle pairs are closer to the Dark Samus and Richter amiibo releases (17th, I think), thus making sense for a game update. So while people seem to be banking on the first two, I wouldn't take mid-to-late January out of the equation yet.

good post

Joker and Hero came out after their amiibos waves in Apr & July; Banjo and Terry came out before the amiibo waves in Sept & Nov. Combine this with the upcoming patch to update the Dark Samus and Richter amiibo for SSBU and the fact that every FP came out the same month as an amiibo wave this month is increasingly good for FP5.

January 7th-8th, 14th-15th, 21st-22nd, and 28th-29th. Since we know our current patch 6.1.0 doesn't have Dark Samus/Richter functionality yet we can assume we'll be getting a patch before January 17th. This patch can be alone (6.1.1) or bundled with FP5 (7.0.0). Have we had 2 patches (minor and major) in the same month? If the amiibo patch is bundled with FP5 then that further narrows FP5 down to:

January 7th-8th OR 14th-15th.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

https://www.neogaf.com/threads/fire...-sales-outsold-awakenings-first-week.1073602/

Assuming this is accurate it only sold around half as much as the best selling FE game of that time.



Considering the promotion didn't work and being unique isn't some amazing thing only Corrin could do, I'd say that was a bad move.



I haven't answered it because it's irrelevant to the conversation and it's clear you're just looking for things to attack someone being critical of FE.

Again, just because it wasn't the best selling doesn't mean it's a flop, are you trying to argue against actual statistics? Cause again, if Binding Blade sold as horribly as you claim it wouldn't have been in the top 50 of that best selling list

It worked because the game became the best selling game. They made a profit regardless. Nintendo's the one who decided if it's a profit, not you.


Lmao you really seeing pushback against a false narrative as an attack? And I asked because this topic has been done to death by whiny brats who're obsessed with Fire Emblem. The only reason this is still going on is because you won't shut up

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Firstly even if we straight up didn't count Lucina/Chrom the rankings would barely change(only being behind zelda which still feels disingenuous because it has 3 semi clones and y.link only being back because of everyone is here)

Second Chrom/Lucina have above the minimum effort for echoes so waving them off as if they're like daisy/richter feels dishonest.

Third this implies that echoes are this nothing that everyone gets, when most series don't and FE has the most out of anyone.

Comparing it to Pokemon is also a bad comparison because it absolutely wouldn't have had 10 without the massive boost "everyone is here" gave it and FE having the same number of characters as it in Smash 4.

Semi-clones speed through the design phase but their assets are still built from the ground up. In that sense I'd say they count as full characters.

While Chrim and Lucina do have more changes than Daisy and Richter, most of them are simple changes in damage values. Since the Echo Fighters start from a copy & paste and don't deviate much more from it I'd still say that all of them count as discount characters. You'd probably have to exclude all of them in order to save enough time and resources to make a full character instead.

Not every character can have one. There are some good ones, but most Echo Fighter suggestions are either incredibly niche or just turn an existing fighter into a Pokémon.

First, you compared it to Pokémon before I did. Second, I'd be willing to bet that Pichu and Greninja would be the only absent characters from the Pokémon series should "Everyone is Here!" not have been a thing.

 

[Naoyatodo]

M Rated Patch:

• Added "Don't **** with a witch" taunt to Bayonetta.
• Snake is now allowed to smoke.
• Joker's All-Out Attack now features blood instead of sparkles.
• Mai Shiranui can now appear on King of Fighters Stadium.

Wario now has poop stains after using waft.

This is another point I forgot to make. Advertising via smash slots has appeared to barely help at all.

FE6's sales weren't remarkable

Fates, while the best selling in the series at that time, only barely sold above awakening despite Corrin in Smash AND having multiple versions.

DQ11s's sales being unremarkable despite Hero being in Smash.

Roy's game was intended to come out before Melee, but it was delayed. Fates was already out in Japan when Corrin was announced. Calling those two promotional picks is very debateable.

 

[Yacobo]

It's only ludicrous because its inconvenient for your narrative.

It's ludicrous because it doesn't work no matter how you look at it.

1. FE had 6 characters before Heroes was even announced.
2. The number of downloads Heroes has is low compared to how many people downloaded other games, meaning the money comes from whales
3. If we go by mobile revenue and nothing else, FE should have less than half as many characters as Pokemon, considering Heroes made much less than Go.
4. If Mobile revenue was indicative of how big a franchise is, why is Mario, THE BIGGEST VIDEO GAME IP EVER, struggling? Is Dragalia Lost bigger than Mario?
5. Unlike sales, revenue doesn't show how many people are actually engaged with the product. Not that many people actually spent money on Heroes.
6. Doesn't explain FE's mediocre retail game sales. If it was a big, Mario tier franchise it wouldn't only have one cherrypicked example.
7. Most smash IPs don't have a mobile game, meaning the comparison is extremely unfair


It just doesn't work.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Wario now has poop stains after using waft.

Roy's game was intended to come out before Melee, but it was delayed. Fates was already out in Japan when Corrin was announced. Calling those two promotional picks is very debateable.

Oh no they were very much promotional picks, Sakurai thought "I need a clone for Melee, Roy Story's coming out soon so I may as well make him a quick Marth clone" and Sakurai outright said Corrin fit the role of promotional pick perfectly as their game was both already out and not released