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Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

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Fenriraga

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Because none of you are able to come up with a single reason for Marios content other than it's popularity. I've given you multiple chances to answer.



There are outliers but none stick out nearly as much as FE.



I feel like I'm more open minded about this than the side that somehow believes that I think FE has never sold well despite saying it has multiple times(sometimes in the beginning of my post)
If you need another reason, sure, it's also because Mario has a wide spread of characters that people adore.

It has a long storied history that defined the genre it essentially helped create.

Oh wow, guess what Fire Emblem has.

I've said this so many times and I'll say it again, so much of the appeal of FE comes from the characters themselves. Just about every fighter on the FE side has more depth to their character than half the Smash roster combined. And I don't mean that in a bad way, that's just not what those characters are intended for. Many of the other RPG protagonists in Smash are silent, with obvious exceptions. Their games are what drive them.

FE is more character driven than any franchise in Smash, and I'd daresay more than most other franchises that ever could be in Smash. FE relies heavily on them, since the games have largely remained the same since inception outside of small mechanic changes. They make up for it in character, hence why some people are dissatisfied with Fates despite it having fairly solid gameplay, or adore Echoes despite some gameplay elements reverting back to older series elements, and why Three Houses is considered the best of both worlds. Because the CHARACTERS are what matter. And no, it's not a case of comparing it to a movie, because if we did that, I guarentee the MGS fans would like a word.

That's why there's so much FE. There is so much CHARACTER to these characters, hence why there is always a demand for them, especially in Japan.

I mean, hell, even Chrom's Classic Mode victory tells more of a "story" than any others. His daughter throwing him a surprise party, welcoming him to Smash after his embarrassment in Smash 4. Again, character.
 
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Calamitas

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Fun fact, Earthbound hasn't been officially released in Europe until less than a decade ago, took until the Wii U to get that mediocre **** here
Yeah, I know. I got that VC release and played it years ago, but barely remember anything from my playthrough, other than being consistently frustrated by the inventory system and trying (and failing) to get that sword for Poo. Earthbound fans just really tend to overrate the quality and appeal of the game, I feel.
 
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Cutie Gwen

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Yeah, I know. I got that VC release and played it years ago, but barely remember anything from my playthrough. Earthbound fans just really tend to overrate the quality and appeal of the game, I feel.
Honestly it's like Golden Sun as people praise the **** out of that and I hopped the bandwagon back in Smash 4 but now, even after playing his games, I cannot remember a single thing beyond some names of characters, summons and like 4 songs, including 2 of the 3 in Smash
 

Yacobo

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If you need another reason, sure, it's also because Mario has a wide spread of characters that people adore.

It has a long stories history that defined the genre it essentially helped create.

Oh wow, guess what Fire Emblem has.
Everyone going into Smash already recognized the Mario characters. Even in Ultimate, when people got to the FE characters most people went "who is this?"

Also arguing that FE is as important or influential to games as Mario is just wrong. FE's influence doesn't extend outside of SRPGS which is a relatively niche genre.

I've said this so many times and I'll say it again, so much of the appeal of FE comes from the characters themselves. Just about every fighter on the FE side has more depth to their character than half the Smash roster combined. And I don't mean that in a bad way, that's just not what those characters are intended for. Many of the other RPG protagonists in Smash are silent, with obvious exceptions. Their games are what drive them.

FE is more character driven than any franchise in Smash, and I'd daresay more than most other franchises that ever could be in Smash. FE relies heavily on them, since the games have largely remained the same since inception outside of small mechanic changes. They make up for it in character, hence why some people are dissatisfied with Fates despite it having fairly solid gameplay, or adore Echoes despite some gameplay elements reverting back to older series elements, and why Three Houses is considered the best of both worlds. Because the CHARACTERS are what matter. And no, it's not a case of comparing it to a movie, because if we did that, I guarentee the MGS fans would like a word.
Even if the FE characters were the best and deepest characters ever written it wouldn't matter in Smash since none of them besides Ike ever show much of a personality.

That's why there's so much FE. There is so much CHARACTER to these characters, hence why there is always a demand for them, especially in Japan.
Mario and Pokemon characters are one dimentional, (and zelda too for the most part but there are exceptions) so if that was the case they'd have very few characters if you guys are now arguing that popularity doesn't matter. Also there's hardly any "demand" for more FE characters when compared to other franchises.
 
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SMAASH! Puppy

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How about showing that they're popular in comparison to other series characters?
Lemme give you a breakdown:
:ultness: Practically transcends his own series in terms of popularity.
:ultrosalina: A fan favorite character from a breakout hit of a game.
:ultpichu: A veteran. That's all you need to have a ton of fan demand from Smash fans.
:ultkrool: The most requested character during Super Smash Bros. for Nintendo 3Ds/Wii U DLC speculation cycle. Many thought they would add him to Super Smash Bros. for Nintendo 3Ds/Wii U before Bayonetta's reveal.
:ultlink: An incredibly popular character from a major game in the series.
:ultpit: (One of) The main protagonist(s) of the game that put the series into the mainstream.
:ultincineroar: A disliked character from a series of games that garnered unrest from its fanbase, but sold well anyways.
 
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Schnee117

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Even if the FE characters were the best and deepest characters ever written it wouldn't matter in Smash since none of them besides Ike ever show much of a personality.
So you don't actually pay attention to the game then.
 

Flyboy

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It took long enough for people to start pushing for Velvet Crowe SMH. Easily the most unique Tales protagonist rep let's goooo

Also I don't know how many times I have to reiterate that I don't want another "Fire Emblem Rep", I want the first "Fire Emblem: Three Houses Rep". People are so focused on series and not that maybe, just maybe, different types of people play different games in the series and are fans of them separately. But this is a conversation we've had over and over again...
 

Cutie Gwen

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It took long enough for people to start pushing for Velvet Crowe SMH. Easily the most unique Tales protagonist rep let's goooo

Also I don't know how many times I have to reiterate that I don't want another "Fire Emblem Rep", I want the first "Fire Emblem: Three Houses Rep". People are so focused on series and not that maybe, just maybe, different types of people play different games in the series and are fans of them separately. But this is a conversation we've had over and over again...
Oh I don't really care who the FE character is or where they're from because of sheer schadenfreude. The more people whine, the more I want another FE character
 

Flyboy

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As presented in Smash how would you describe the characters besides Ike with the Plinkett test?
I don't know what that is but from context clues it probably has to do with being unfunny, intentionally obtuse, and mid-key offensive
 

zeldasmash

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And why is that?



And again, it doesn't even come remotely close to the other franchises with 6+ characters.




How about showing that they're popular in comparison to other series characters?
1) Video game crash of 1983. Nintendo Entertainment System release in 1985 with Super Mario Bros as a launch title. The rest is history.

2) The only other franchises with 6+ characters are Zelda, Pokemon and Mario. Fire Emblem obviously won't reach those numbers because Fire Emblem recently became a household name while Mario, Zelda and Pokemon have always been household names for decades: 24 years for Pokemon, 34 for Zelda and 35 for Mario.

What exactly are you getting at here?
 

Fenriraga

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Everyone going into Smash already recognized the Mario characters. Even in Ultimate, when people got to the FE characters most people went "who is this?"

Also arguing that FE is as important or influential to games as Mario is just wrong. FE's influence doesn't extend outside of SRPGS which is a relatively niche genre.



Even if the FE characters were the best and deepest characters ever written it wouldn't matter in Smash since none of them besides Ike ever show much of a personality.



Mario and Pokemon characters are one dimentional, (and zelda too for the most part but there are exceptions) so if that was the case they'd have very few characters if you guys are now arguing that popularity doesn't matter. Also there's hardly any "demand" for more FE characters when compared to other franchises.
Except I wasn't arguing popularity didn't matter???

You said to give you a reason OTHER than popularity for their inclusion, and I gave you one. And from what I can see, you haven't refuted that in any meaningful way.
 

SMAASH! Puppy

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As presented in Smash how would you describe the characters besides Ike with the Plinkett test?
Everyone's one dimensional in the Super Smash Bros. series; They only have time to present their most standout qualities.

I don't know what that is but from context clues it probably has to do with being unfunny, intentionally obtuse, and mid-key offensive
A quick Google search said it measures how strong or deep a character is. Dunno how it's regarded though. To be honest I was expecting it to be a psychology thing.
 

osby

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As presented in Smash how would you describe the characters besides Ike with the Plinkett test?
I don't know what that is but are you just going to ignore how Awakening characters have their own victory quotes for each other or how Roy's fiery mannerism is nothing like Marth's?
 

Yacobo

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Lemme give you a breakdown:
.
I'm sorry but I genuinely don't understand what your argument is.

stop being mean to fe even though all you're doing is arguing that it doesn't deserve a huge amount of content waaaaaaaaa
sorry can't do that dude

1) Video game crash of 1983. Nintendo Entertainment System release in 1985 with Super Mario Bros as a launch title. The rest is history.
And how did it bring the industry out of it crash?

2) The only other franchises with 6+ characters are Zelda, Pokemon and Mario. Fire Emblem obviously won't reach those numbers because Fire Emblem recently became a household name while Mario, Zelda and Pokemon have always been household names for decades: 24 years for Pokemon, 34 for Zelda and 35 for Mario.
At the rate FE is going it will never keep up. It needs another huge boost to maybe keep up with Zelda.
 

Fenriraga

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I don't know what that is but are you just going to ignore how Awakening characters have their own victory quotes for each other or how Roy's fiery mannerism is nothing like Marth's?
Don't forget Lucina smack-talking Marth. I adore that bit. Was honestly hoping Marth would have a retort when Yuri got involved in Smash, but oh well.
 

Yacobo

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Everyone's one dimensional in the Super Smash Bros. series; They only have time to present their most standout qualities.


A quick Google search said it measures how strong or deep a character is. Dunno how it's regarded though. To be honest I was expecting it to be a psychology thing.
Which is why it doesn't make sense to use that to argue for a character getting in Smash. If there was a story mode with dialogue I could sort of understand.
 

SMAASH! Puppy

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I'm sorry but I genuinely don't understand what your argument is.
You told me to compare the Fire Emblem cast to characters of other series. So I did.
EDIT: The wording was mostly the same but the characters were different.

Which is why it doesn't make sense to use that to argue for a character getting in Smash.
True but it can be used to explain why a character would appeal to people who want it in Super Smash Bros.
 
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zeldasmash

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And how did it bring the industry out of it crash?



At the rate FE is going it will never keep up. It needs another huge boost to maybe keep up with Zelda.
1) It made the NES a gigantic hit and made video games profitable again after the 1983 crash. No one would dare sell any video game consoles as such so Nintendo sold it as a toy with Super Mario Bros. and BOOM! Mega hit and made video games a net positive and it kickstarted the video game industry to what it is now.

2) It won't. It probably never will, which is why comparing Fire Emblem's success and popularity with Zelda's is pointless. While I consider Awakening an important game throughout the 2010's, Zelda is just a whole other level in terms of influence, importance, impact and legacy. I do think that Zelda needs more representatives in Smash, but it ain't Fire Emblem's fault.

It's OK if you don't like Fire Emblem, but I seriously fail to see where you're getting at here.
 

Tako Tuesday

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I log on only to see people talking smack about EarthBound, smh. The game has flaws, sure. But I wouldn't call the game mediocre at all. It has a ton of charm, and some really good moments.

However I do think that Mother 3 is the better game overall, as it fixed a lot of EarthBound's gameplay issues and has a better story.
 

Fenriraga

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Which is why it doesn't make sense to use that to argue for a character getting in Smash. If there was a story mode with dialogue I could sort of understand.
The point is that DESPITE that limitation, the FE cast still brings character into Smash. Hence, again, their interactions with each other.

And the point of it is for that character to be playable, so dream matchups can occur. Just like every other character. Different reason for inclusion, but same execution.

Anyway, last I'll say on this subject, since you're clearly not here to hear people out.
 

Yacobo

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You told me to compare the Fire Emblem cast to characters of other series. So I did.
Are you arguing that Ike is as popular as Link? I don't know what you're getting at.

True but it can be used to explain why a character would appeal to people who want it in Super Smash Bros.
Anyone has yet to prove that any FE characters are requested highly compared to other series characters.

1) It made the NES a gigantic hit and made video games profitable again after the 1983 crash. No one would dare sell any video game consoles as such so Nintendo sold it as a toy with Super Mario Bros. and BOOM! Mega hit and made video games a net positive and it kickstarted the video game industry to what it is now.
And how was it able to accomplish that? Could selling well have anything to do with that?

2) It won't. It probably never will, which is why comparing Fire Emblem's success and popularity with Zelda's is pointless. While I consider Awakening an important game throughout the 2010's, Zelda is just a whole other level in terms of influence, importance, impact and legacy. I do think that Zelda needs more representatives in Smash, but it ain't Fire Emblem's fault.
So we went from FE being popular enough, to it's not popular enough yet to popularity not mattering. Not the first time this has happened this conversation.
 

King Sonnn DeDeDoo

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Anyway I was only half joking earlier about wanting every single Animal Villager, so I propose an idea for an Echo fighter for Villager.

Rover! (and other Animal Villagers)

Basically all these animals play exactly like Villager and Rover is the default costume, but all the other alts will be other popular Animal Crossing villagers like how Bowser Jr. has all the different Koopalings as alts. Now the hard part is deciding which Villagers should be fit into the remaining 7 alt slots, but we know they have to fit the same bodyshape/height and that they probably have to be pretty popular.

One that is a pretty obvious choice for an alt is Rosie, who is a very popular character and has been featured on Animal Crossing merchandise, the animated movie and other promotional material since the series inception.


Who are some other Animal Villagers that you'd like to see as an alt? (and ones that fit within the proportions, sorry Hamlet.)
 

Fenriraga

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That would require Smash being a fighting game as all fighting games with even a decent budget have character interactions across the board
I mean, that would also involve more than half the cast having the ability to speak in full sentences.

Which uh... Yeah.
 

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Even if the FE characters were the best and deepest characters ever written it wouldn't matter in Smash since none of them besides Ike ever show much of a personality.
.
I know I said I wouldn't respond again but my god this was too egregious to let slide.

They absolutely do. Ignoring Lucina who the Smash localization team absolutely butchered, and Corrin because sadly they're canonically that uninteresting, the rest absolutely show personality in spades.

Marth's entire characterization is based on his tendency to put on a brave face for his allies to bolster their morale, all while counting his blessings each time he makes it through a fight alive. His fighting stance is facing toward the opponent, light on his feet, and turning to make himself a smaller target. This is because he's a classically trained noble swordsman so his stance is light and professional. One of his idle poses is him sighing and putting his hand over his heart, showing his more vulnerable side. One of his taunts is "Keep your eyes open," which can be read two different ways. If said to his opponent, it shows his fair and honorable side. If said to a teammate, it shows his leadership skills as the Lodestar. One of his victory quotes is a solumn "I live to fight again." He doesn't even relish the victory, because all victories are fleeting and he can't get complacent. Given his Shadow Dragon characterization, this takes on a much deeper meaning after the Star and Savior chapter.

Chrom might actually be one of the most expressive characters in the game. He's brimming with personality. Like Marth, his stance greatly informs his character. Unlike Marth's more traditional, safe, and professional stance, Chrom stands with his body forward, Falchion to the side. This is a reckless stance, fitting for Chrom's character, as well as playstyle. He jumps into battle without thinking to protect those he loves. His idle stance has him balling his fist, showing that hot-blooded aggression. His taunts are, well, actual taunts. "Come on!" "Come at me!" "I will not fail!" (This last one is also one of his critical hit quotes). And like in Awakening, Chrom is a total dork beneath the surface, as shown by him literally screaming out "Sorry!" when he gets KO'd. And he's one of only two Ultimate newcomers to have a character-specific victory quote, with "Our bond is stronger than steel" when facing Lucina.

This post is getting long and you said yourself Ike shows personality, so I'll cut it off here, but the Fire Emblem cast is definitely NOT without personality in Smash.
 

Yacobo

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The point is that DESPITE that limitation, the FE cast still brings character into Smash. Hence, again, their interactions with each other.
Those interactions being only a few cherry picked examples that you only see in victory screens. Meanwhile in the rest of the game you see examples of personality with everything like Inceniroar playing a heel.

And the point of it is for that character to be playable, so dream matchups can occur. Just like every other character. Different reason for inclusion, but same execution.
FE characters get in the way of those dream matchups, considering the series isn't big enough nor gets the character requests to stand out compared to other smash series.

Anyway, last I'll say on this subject, since you're clearly not here to hear people out.
I've been insulted multiple times from FE fans in this thread unwilling to hear me out. You and the moderators have done jack **** about it.
 

SMAASH! Puppy

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That would require Smash being a fighting game as all fighting games with even a decent budget have character interactions across the board
Netherrealm Studios is really the only company that does this. Every other one just gives special quotes to specific matchups. Still, I'd be super fun to see things like this from more than just the Fire Emblem, Star Fox, and Kid Icarus series in Super Smash Bros. I'd especially like to see cross series interaction.

Are you arguing that Ike is as popular as Link? I don't know what you're getting at.
No but I am saying that he was added for similar reasons that Link draws from his appearance from The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild.

Anyway I was only half joking earlier about wanting every single Animal Villager, so I propose an idea for an Echo fighter for Villager.

Rover! (and other Animal Villagers)
I unironically want an echo fighter of Villager called Residant that's just the animal villagers.
 

BlueMonk

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Anyway I was only half joking earlier about wanting every single Animal Villager, so I propose an idea for an Echo fighter for Villager.

Rover! (and other Animal Villagers)

Basically all these animals play exactly like Villager and Rover is the default costume, but all the other alts will be other popular Animal Crossing villagers like how Bowser Jr. has all the different Koopalings as alts. Now the hard part is deciding which Villagers should be fit into the remaining 7 alt slots, but we know they have to fit the same bodyshape/height and that they probably have to be pretty popular.

One that is a pretty obvious choice for an alt is Rosie, who is a very popular character and has been featured on Animal Crossing merchandise, the animated movie and other promotional material since the series inception.


Who are some other Animal Villagers that you'd like to see as an alt? (and ones that fit within the proportions, sorry Hamlet.)
Rover is amazing and needs to be included in smash at all costs
 

Cutie Gwen

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Netherrealm Studios is really the only company that does this. Every other one just gives special quotes to specific matchups. Still, I'd be super fun to see things like this from more than just the Fire Emblem, Star Fox, and Kid Icarus series in Super Smash Bros. I'd especially like to see cross series interaction.


No but I am saying that he was added for similar reasons that Link draws from his appearance from The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild.


I unironically want an echo fighter of Villager called Residant that's just the animal villagers.
Street Fighter, Guilty Gear, Blazblue, DBFZ, Capcom VS, etc all do character interactions too
 

osby

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They absolutely do. Ignoring Lucina who the Smash localization team absolutely butchered, and Corrin because sadly they're canonically that uninteresting, the rest absolutely show personality in spades.
Corrin's characterization in Fates is really poor, but I'd argue that at least their Smash moveset shows some personality with how it includes both feral dragon attacks and more dance-like, elegant spins. Even if you don't know the character, it shows a duality between their dragon and human sides and I think it's neat.

Their voice lines are super boring, I'll give you that (though I'm fond of male Corrin's goofy "I win!").
 
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EricTheGamerman

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Smash Bros. is the only franchise I know of where the developer can give fans basically everything they want across 20 years of titles, and they still actively look for **** to get angry at and find that, god forbid, a franchise got some attention on the character select screen that is not equal to others. Never mind the rest of the game, the stages, the bosses, the music, the Spirits, etc. Never mind that sometimes reality leads to different outcomes. Never mind that we're only in this situation because fans requested things and got what they actually wanted in Fire Emblem.

Nope, we're playing the the "ONLY WHAT YOU DESERVE" game where the Mario and Pokemon leaders have demanded we remove the bourgeoisie Fire Emblem characters from their coveted and lavish spots on the character select screen and give to the suffering proletariat Donkey Kong, all while they take a small fee of 2 rosters spots to every 1 they distribute to the common franchises as they are ensuring the good of the Smash Bros. Union. No franchise may have more than another for you are only what you give back to the Nintendo community, though we must not question the intentions of the Mario/Pokemon party for they know best and will look out for the huddled masses of Metroid and F-Zero. The outsider scum of third parties have been banished from our great union and don't ask about Xenoblade because we will also eradicate the "anime scum" from our history books one franchise at a time.
 

Yacobo

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I know I said I wouldn't respond again but my god this was too egregious to let slide.

They absolutely do. Ignoring Lucina who the Smash localization team absolutely butchered, and Corrin because sadly they're canonically that uninteresting, the rest absolutely show personality in spades.
This is a good point and made me think differently about showing personality in Smash. I don't agree with 100% of it but I understand how it's a bit more subtle than I thought it was. Thanks for typing this out.
 
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SMAASH! Puppy

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Chrom might actually be one of the most expressive characters in the game. He's brimming with personality. Like Marth, his stance greatly informs his character. Unlike Marth's more traditional, safe, and professional stance, Chrom stands with his body forward, Falchion to the side. This is a reckless stance, fitting for Chrom's character, as well as playstyle. He jumps into battle without thinking to protect those he loves. His idle stance has him balling his fist, showing that hot-blooded aggression. His taunts are, well, actual taunts. "Come on!" "Come at me!" "I will not fail!" (This last one is also one of his critical hit quotes). And like in Awakening, Chrom is a total dork beneath the surface, as shown by him literally screaming out "Sorry!" when he gets KO'd. And he's one of only two Ultimate newcomers to have a character-specific victory quote, with "Our bond is stronger than steel" when facing Lucina.
I'd argue that Chrom is a little too angry in this game. Though it may just be an issue of certain voice clips being triggered too often. A problem MvCI knows all too well.

Also they got his crit quote wrong but that's neither here nor there.

Street Fighter, Guilty Gear, Blazblue, DBFZ, Capcom VS, etc all do character interactions too
My point was that these games only do this for specific matchups rather than every member of the cast saying something unique to every other character of the cast like in Mortal Kombat. Not that it matters though I wasn't really trying to refute your previous point.
 

Fenriraga

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Corrin's characterization in Fates is really poor, but I'd argue that at least their Smash moveset shows some personality with how it includes both feral dragon attacks and more dance-like, elegant spins. Even if you don't know the character, it shows a duality between their dragon and human sides and I think it's neat.

Their voice lines are super boring, I'll give you that (though I'm fond of male Corrin's goofy "I win!").
54372e0c77383c7f3907bc7232f0b355.png

This comic will never not be perfect.
 

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Smash Bros. is the only franchise I know of where the developer can give fans basically everything they want across 20 years of titles, and they still actively look for **** to get angry at and find that, god forbid, a franchise got some attention on the character select screen that is not equal to others. Never mind the rest of the game, the stages, the bosses, the music, the Spirits, etc. Never mind that sometimes reality leads to different outcomes. Never mind that we're only in this situation because fans requested things and got what they actually wanted in Fire Emblem.

Nope, we're playing the the "ONLY WHAT YOU DESERVE" game where the Mario and Pokemon leaders have demanded we remove the bourgeoisie Fire Emblem characters from their coveted and lavish spots on the character select screen and give to the suffering proletariat Donkey Kong, all while they take a small fee of 2 rosters spots to every 1 they distribute to the common franchises as they are ensuring the good of the Smash Bros. Union. No franchise may have more than another for you are only what you give back to the Nintendo community, though we must not question the intentions of the Mario/Pokemon party for they know best and will look out for the huddled masses of Metroid and F-Zero. The outsider scum of third parties have been banished from our great union and don't ask about Xenoblade because we will also eradicate the "anime scum" from our history books one franchise at a time.
If this is how you guys react to someone thinking they went overboard on FE representation I'd wonder what the reception to someone actually hating it would be.
 

Schnee117

Too Majestic for Gender
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Netherrealm Studios is really the only company that does this. Every other one just gives special quotes to specific matchups. Still, I'd be super fun to see things like this from more than just the Fire Emblem, Star Fox, and Kid Icarus series in Super Smash Bros. I'd especially like to see cross series interaction.
Shulk should really have unique interactions with ROB, Samus, K Rool, Dedede, Lucina, Palutena, Robin and Snake.
It'd be fun to have him mistaking K Rool and Dedede for Unique Monster variations of Ignas and Tirkins respectively.
 
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