SMAASH! Puppy
Smash Legend
*Slams table* WHY IS CHROM FACING RIGHT!?! EVERYONE ELSE IS FACING LEFT!!!
Fear the Interchanging Hand of Doom!In fairness, he's gotta show off the branded arm. The drawbacks of an asymmetric design.
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Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion
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Yo, we Injustice now?
Mushroomguy12
Smash Hero
Guys.....
There was a problem fetching the tweet
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Anywho, because it's topical, I figured I'd show off my Edelgard moveset again, since I did tweak it a bit.
I just love her as a character and think she'd be super fun in Smash.
Edelgard uses her signature axe, Aymr, in Smash Bros. She's the shortest of the current Fire Emblem cast, but not by a large margin. She's not very quick, about on par with Mii Swordfighter, while also being decently heavy due to her axe.
To offset these characteristics, her playstyle revolves around taking full control of and limiting the opponent's movement options, allowing her to more easily get a few solid hits in. In Fire Emblem Three Houses, one major new feature is the Battalion and Gambit system, which works off of the user's Charm stat and Authority level. By selecting a Gambit, a battalion of soldiers joins a unit for a group attack, and these can have various effects.
One common theme is limiting the target's options. Opponents can't counter attack, Gambits often leave Beast units dazed and unable to strike, and when used on normal enemies, they often prevent them from moving at all.
Edelgard's best combat ranks in Three Houses are Axes and Authority, which would make up her moveset here. This also showcases her personality, as someone who always has a plan and leaves nothing to chance. By eliminating the opponent's escape options, she forces them to face her head on, where she can then deliver a decisive blow.
Jab - A two-hit combo attack, wherein Edelgard hits the opponent in a chopping motion with her axe, alternating which side she swings from.
Dash Attack - While running, Edelgard swings her axe upward from the ground in an arching sweep.
Forward Tilt - A two-strike attack, similar to Meta Knight and Piranha Plant. On the first hit, Edelgard sweeps her axe from the side, and the second hit has her continuing the motion as she swings it downward from overhead.
Up Tilt - Edelgard swings her axe from the ground to above her head in an almost golf club-like motion.
Down Tilt - While crouching, Edelgard kicks outward while holding her axe close by.
Neutral Air - Edelgard swings Aymr in a complete circle around her body. If this move is held, she keeps performing this move and each subsequent swing gets a lightning effect with high hitstun.
Up Air - Edelgard performs a motion similar to Ike's old up air, but with a fire effect imbuing the axe.
Forward Air - Edelgard slams Aymr downward in front of her, and if the foe makes contact with the spiked end, they get, well, spiked.
Back Air - Edelgard swings Aymr behind her. If an opponent is hit, a small explosion-like fire effect activates and launches them backwards.
Down Air - Edelgard slams Aymr downward, falling downward with it. If she hits an opponent in the air with it, they both plummet straight down and, upon hitting the ground, the foe takes very high damage. The move has a lightning effect to reference the Lightning Axe art.
Forward Smash - Taken from her own Smash combat art, Edelgard leaps forward and smashes Aymr into the ground in front of her.
Up Smash - Edelgard thrusts Aymr skyward as a giant projection of the Crest of Flames envelops it, the sigil doing rapid multi-hit damage before exploding.
Down Smash - Edelgard ducks down and spins Aymr along the ground in a circle as one fluid motion. Shortly afterwards, the circled area around her bursts into flames for an additional attack.
Pummel - Edelgard grabs the foe and bashes them with Aymr.
Forward Throw - Based on the Smite maneuver, Edelgard launches the foe forward with high knockback by swinging her axe at them. This is a powerful kill throw.
Back Throw - Edelgard throws the opponent, slamming them into the ground behind her.
Up Throw - Edelgard uses one hand to launch the foe skyward.
Down Throw - Edelgard throws the foe into the ground beneath her.
Neutral Special - Raging Storm - Edelgard readies her stance as Aymr takes on a red glow and the Crest of Seiros appears above her. Upon releasing the button, she swings the axe with full force. If an opponent is hit by this move, they won't take much damage, but will fall into a crumple state in a small explosion. Edelgard can then follow up with a strong Smash Attack, or regain space by leaving the foe there.
Side Special - Hand Axe - A simple projectile and one of Edelgard's faster attacks. Edelgard takes a small throwing axe and tosses it. It will then spin through the air as it flies, before hitting the ground and disappearing. If foes are hit with the blade, they will take much more damage than if hit with the handle. The blade will also do significant shield damage. While the move is fast, it cannot be spammed easily, as only one Hand Axe can be on the screen at a time per Edelgard.
Up Special - Flickering Flower - Edelgard takes from one of her Critical Hit animations and leaps upward with Aymr held high, and then crashes downward at a diagonal. If the crash is completed, the area of impact will be scorched with flames for a few moments. The move has a rising hitbox with Aymr's head, but it can be cancelled before reaching the full height. This, however, loses the hitbox. This attack acts as a mix between Cross Chop and Super Dedede Jump.
Down Special - Fusillade - Edelgard makes an exaggerated wave of her hand and yells "Now!" From the fourth wall, a volley of arrows from an unseen imperial battalion rains down in a column shaped area in front of her, covering the same amount of height as Palutena's up smash. This attack can be used for edge-guarding purposes, as airborne opponent's will be slightly pushed downward for each arrow that hits them. However, if Edelgard is in the air when she uses this move, only one arrow will be launched, reducing the move's effectiveness. This move also has a small cooldown after it's used, so use it wisely.
Final Smash - Raging Flames - Edelgard whacks a nearby foe with Aymr, triggering a cutscene as "Gambit Boost" flashes onto the screen. A cart full of explosives is wheeled toward the knocked down foe. Edelgard is joined by Byleth and Hubert. Edelgard gives the command as Hubert fires a Miasma toward the cart, the latter laughing all the while. The cart explodes on contact with the target as the cutscene ends and the foe is sent flying.
To offset these characteristics, her playstyle revolves around taking full control of and limiting the opponent's movement options, allowing her to more easily get a few solid hits in. In Fire Emblem Three Houses, one major new feature is the Battalion and Gambit system, which works off of the user's Charm stat and Authority level. By selecting a Gambit, a battalion of soldiers joins a unit for a group attack, and these can have various effects.
One common theme is limiting the target's options. Opponents can't counter attack, Gambits often leave Beast units dazed and unable to strike, and when used on normal enemies, they often prevent them from moving at all.
Edelgard's best combat ranks in Three Houses are Axes and Authority, which would make up her moveset here. This also showcases her personality, as someone who always has a plan and leaves nothing to chance. By eliminating the opponent's escape options, she forces them to face her head on, where she can then deliver a decisive blow.
Jab - A two-hit combo attack, wherein Edelgard hits the opponent in a chopping motion with her axe, alternating which side she swings from.
Dash Attack - While running, Edelgard swings her axe upward from the ground in an arching sweep.
Forward Tilt - A two-strike attack, similar to Meta Knight and Piranha Plant. On the first hit, Edelgard sweeps her axe from the side, and the second hit has her continuing the motion as she swings it downward from overhead.
Up Tilt - Edelgard swings her axe from the ground to above her head in an almost golf club-like motion.
Down Tilt - While crouching, Edelgard kicks outward while holding her axe close by.
Neutral Air - Edelgard swings Aymr in a complete circle around her body. If this move is held, she keeps performing this move and each subsequent swing gets a lightning effect with high hitstun.
Up Air - Edelgard performs a motion similar to Ike's old up air, but with a fire effect imbuing the axe.
Forward Air - Edelgard slams Aymr downward in front of her, and if the foe makes contact with the spiked end, they get, well, spiked.
Back Air - Edelgard swings Aymr behind her. If an opponent is hit, a small explosion-like fire effect activates and launches them backwards.
Down Air - Edelgard slams Aymr downward, falling downward with it. If she hits an opponent in the air with it, they both plummet straight down and, upon hitting the ground, the foe takes very high damage. The move has a lightning effect to reference the Lightning Axe art.
Forward Smash - Taken from her own Smash combat art, Edelgard leaps forward and smashes Aymr into the ground in front of her.
Up Smash - Edelgard thrusts Aymr skyward as a giant projection of the Crest of Flames envelops it, the sigil doing rapid multi-hit damage before exploding.
Down Smash - Edelgard ducks down and spins Aymr along the ground in a circle as one fluid motion. Shortly afterwards, the circled area around her bursts into flames for an additional attack.
Pummel - Edelgard grabs the foe and bashes them with Aymr.
Forward Throw - Based on the Smite maneuver, Edelgard launches the foe forward with high knockback by swinging her axe at them. This is a powerful kill throw.
Back Throw - Edelgard throws the opponent, slamming them into the ground behind her.
Up Throw - Edelgard uses one hand to launch the foe skyward.
Down Throw - Edelgard throws the foe into the ground beneath her.
Neutral Special - Raging Storm - Edelgard readies her stance as Aymr takes on a red glow and the Crest of Seiros appears above her. Upon releasing the button, she swings the axe with full force. If an opponent is hit by this move, they won't take much damage, but will fall into a crumple state in a small explosion. Edelgard can then follow up with a strong Smash Attack, or regain space by leaving the foe there.
Side Special - Hand Axe - A simple projectile and one of Edelgard's faster attacks. Edelgard takes a small throwing axe and tosses it. It will then spin through the air as it flies, before hitting the ground and disappearing. If foes are hit with the blade, they will take much more damage than if hit with the handle. The blade will also do significant shield damage. While the move is fast, it cannot be spammed easily, as only one Hand Axe can be on the screen at a time per Edelgard.
Up Special - Flickering Flower - Edelgard takes from one of her Critical Hit animations and leaps upward with Aymr held high, and then crashes downward at a diagonal. If the crash is completed, the area of impact will be scorched with flames for a few moments. The move has a rising hitbox with Aymr's head, but it can be cancelled before reaching the full height. This, however, loses the hitbox. This attack acts as a mix between Cross Chop and Super Dedede Jump.
Down Special - Fusillade - Edelgard makes an exaggerated wave of her hand and yells "Now!" From the fourth wall, a volley of arrows from an unseen imperial battalion rains down in a column shaped area in front of her, covering the same amount of height as Palutena's up smash. This attack can be used for edge-guarding purposes, as airborne opponent's will be slightly pushed downward for each arrow that hits them. However, if Edelgard is in the air when she uses this move, only one arrow will be launched, reducing the move's effectiveness. This move also has a small cooldown after it's used, so use it wisely.
Final Smash - Raging Flames - Edelgard whacks a nearby foe with Aymr, triggering a cutscene as "Gambit Boost" flashes onto the screen. A cart full of explosives is wheeled toward the knocked down foe. Edelgard is joined by Byleth and Hubert. Edelgard gives the command as Hubert fires a Miasma toward the cart, the latter laughing all the while. The cart explodes on contact with the target as the cutscene ends and the foe is sent flying.
Cosmic77
Smash Hero
There's several variables for why a franchise has as many characters as it does. Popularity, number of characters, iconicness, fan demand - it's differs from series to series.
In FE's case, one of the biggest reasons why it has as many characters as it does is simply because it's arguably the easiest franchise to add newcomers to. It has a rotating cast in each game, which gives it plenty of characters to choose from. On top of that, several of the characters can easily be cloned from other characters. Many FE characters have similar builds with few physical traits to distinguish them. That's how more than half of the FE cast in Smash got derived from a single moveset. I can't think of many other Nintendo franchises where Sakurai would be capable of cloning a single moveset three times. I don't even think he could do it with Pokemon.
In FE's case, one of the biggest reasons why it has as many characters as it does is simply because it's arguably the easiest franchise to add newcomers to. It has a rotating cast in each game, which gives it plenty of characters to choose from. On top of that, several of the characters can easily be cloned from other characters. Many FE characters have similar builds with few physical traits to distinguish them. That's how more than half of the FE cast in Smash got derived from a single moveset. I can't think of many other Nintendo franchises where Sakurai would be capable of cloning a single moveset three times. I don't even think he could do it with Pokemon.
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Yacobo
Smash Apprentice
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And it makes very little compared to Pokemon Go, which is another reason why the mobile revenue argument is terrible.
I know who Green Lanturn is but I don't really know how popular he is compared to other DC characters. But I'm guessing he doesn't come close to Batman or Superman.
Is FE a succesful franchise? Yes. But it's objectively not as big as Mario, Zelda, or Pokemon. Link's Awakening outsold 3H despite being a controversial remake. Other Nintendo IPs have done, and exceeded FE for years and not once have gotten rewarded as well for it.
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Link. He come to town.
Schnee117
Too Majestic for Gender
Can't believe they added yet more Green Lantern characters and didn't reward Hawkman's gallery.
Guynamednelson
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DarthEnderX
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Yeah, he's not above using diplomatic corporate speak and backpedaling on earlier statements.
Everything he says is NOT 100% fact.
Come to save
the princess Zelda!
Morpeko
Plusle+Minun
Emolga
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D
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Raiden over literally any DC character? Ed Boon bias.
Yes it should. A blade of grass, a clay pigeon, a solo duck, a solo dog, a retro duck hunt duo, a retro dog, a retro duck, an nes zapper and more potential as Duck Hunt in smash represents the NES zapper as a whole although a blade of grass is surely the most deserving. Blades of Grass are so recurring not only in video games but out of them yet one isn’t playable in smash yet. And before someone says plant he doesn’t count cos he’s in a pot
Cosmic77
Smash Hero
I guess I should've been more specific. I meant that I couldn't think of many Nintendo franchises where Sakurai could clone a moveset three times into completely different characters. All three Links are technically the same character, and if he really wanted to, he could've tried the same thing with other characters. He could've fleshed out Metroid's cast by making clones of Samus in different suits.
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SMAASH! Puppy
Smash Legend
This is the kind of reasoning that gets series tragically canceled for no reason.
Eeeeeeeeh. All of these characters would have to be made separately since their proportions are so different. There wouldn't really be a point to doing that even to pad out the roster.
Plusle+Minun
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A game doesn’t reach “success” or “growth” only if it reaches Mario, Pokémon, or Zelda level. That’s not a fair comparison whatsoever.
Growth is shown from the starting point, to where it goes. It’s not realistic to look at Fire Emblem as a failure just because it isn’t selling like Mario or Pokémon. The series is much larger than it was pre-Awakening. This growth isn’t just because of the series sales itself, but by the range of exposure it was granted by Smash as a series itself: Something Sakurai has mentioned he enjoys doing when it comes to, “helping support the Japanese gaming industry”.
Without Marth, Roy, even Ike...we might not have gotten Awakening. Meaning, we wouldn’t have Fates, or Three Houses.
It just seems to me at this point the discussion has run its course, with goalpost moving and a lack of agreement, as usually happens.
To close, using sales...and only sales, to say which series “deserves” (ew) characters in Smash essentially ignores 90% or more of what gets characters into Smash, and therefore isn’t a good indication of who or what will be in Smash going forward.
Anyway, 2B and Dante for Smash!
Growth is shown from the starting point, to where it goes. It’s not realistic to look at Fire Emblem as a failure just because it isn’t selling like Mario or Pokémon. The series is much larger than it was pre-Awakening. This growth isn’t just because of the series sales itself, but by the range of exposure it was granted by Smash as a series itself: Something Sakurai has mentioned he enjoys doing when it comes to, “helping support the Japanese gaming industry”.
Without Marth, Roy, even Ike...we might not have gotten Awakening. Meaning, we wouldn’t have Fates, or Three Houses.
It just seems to me at this point the discussion has run its course, with goalpost moving and a lack of agreement, as usually happens.
To close, using sales...and only sales, to say which series “deserves” (ew) characters in Smash essentially ignores 90% or more of what gets characters into Smash, and therefore isn’t a good indication of who or what will be in Smash going forward.
Anyway, 2B and Dante for Smash!
King Sonnn DeDeDoo
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I was such a big supporter of Grass in the Smash 4 days and when they announced Grass would be an item I was pissed. I thought for sure they wouldn't repeat that mistake for Ultimate with all the fanservice but alas
SMAASH! Puppy
Smash Legend
He's not even a character, Tougon!I was such a big supporter of Grass in the Smash 4 days and when they announced Grass would be an item I was pissed. I thought for sure they wouldn't repeat that mistake for Ultimate with all the fanservice but alas
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Yacobo
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People argue that FE is big enough to justify it's content in Smash. So of course I'm going to compare it's success to the other IPs with around the same amount of characters.
I'm sick of having to say over and over again that FE isn't a failure. I don't see how growing to a bigger point which still isn't even close to the bigger ones means you should get as much as the bigger ones.
90% of what gets in Smash doesn't get 7 characters.
All of you have to be willingly ingoring what I'm actually saying. Please tell me where I moved the goalpost because I feel like I've been consistent throughout the entire conversation.
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Oh god I didn’t know Grass was in ultimate but that redesign looks horrible. It’s worse than Snakes ultimate design. When I wanted grass I wanted duck hunt grass not burnt grass. I am absolutely appalled by it and him not being a fighter is even bigger of a crime than green Birdo committing tax fraud. They could have just imported the model from the stage smhI was such a big supporter of Grass in the Smash 4 days and when they announced Grass would be an item I was pissed. I thought for sure they wouldn't repeat that mistake for Ultimate with all the fanservice but alas
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Schnee117
Too Majestic for Gender
In life there are three guarantees.
Death, Taxes and FE arguments
SMAASH! Puppy
Smash Legend
Well with this reasoning I motion that we cut Falco and Wolf. Starfox is a zombie of a franchise and it doesn't deserve as many characters as Kirby and Donkey Kong, as it is much smaller than these two.
osby
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Rubbish! Metroid and Star Fox obviously eclipse Donkey Kong and Animal Crossing in sales and popularity, look how they have more fighters!
I'm sick and tired of people acting like there are Nintendo games other than Smash.
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D
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Fox and Falco are from Super Smash Bros. Melee for the GameCube and Smash sells pretty well. Wolf is our lone Star Fox rep.
Yacobo
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Except for the part about cutting Falco and Wolf, this but unironically.
The difference here is that it's been taken to a large extreme with FE.
Man, remember when FE had to share the spotlight for the "It gets too much content and needs to be cut down!"-arguments with Kid Icarus back during the Smash 4 days? FE sure has come a long way since then. I'm so proud of it.
Yacobo
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This is because FE kept getting new stuff since then. Also shows that it's not some arbitrary hatred exclusively for FE.
King Sonnn DeDeDoo
Smash Champion
A good 50% of KI content was put into Smash run which sadly didn’t carry over into the Wii U release or Ultimate.
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It's sad to see Magnus' AT cut, though.
Regardless, my biggest want for a FE character is a unique weapon(which helps, since that's what Three Houses has in spades).
I was gonna point out that DK has the same # of characters as Star Fox, but then I realized Diddy Kong has his own franchise: two characters (
, ), some spirits (Barrel Train, all the DKC2 spirits) and finally, Diddy Kong has the most important thing: the Diddy Kong pack.There was a problem fetching the tweet
Schnee117
Too Majestic for Gender
Remember how that one Star Fox stage in Smash 4 Wii U took a year to make?
Yeah it's gone now, great use of resources.
Yeah it's gone now, great use of resources.
SMAASH! Puppy
Smash Legend
So...Not this at all then?
The point my snark was coming from is that overall success of a franchise is not the only factor in considering a character.
I think the Echo Fighter rebranding got people to stop being mad at Dark Pit. lol
Cutie Gwen
Lovely warrior
I have dinner and a quick wash and people are still arguing about FE huh. How about we discuss something less controversial like idk, which female characters from franchises not yet in Smash we should have. I propose Velvet Crowe
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To be honest at this point I’m just glad I’ve given series in Smash a shot. A lot of the series that got added to Smash, aside from Mario, DK, Pokémon, and a few others were ones I had never played. I’ve learned to love every series because of something that makes them different, fun, and all around fantastic.
That’s part of why I’ve gotten games that aren’t even in Smash yet, but I’ve heard are quality. It’s why 2019 was filled with Resident Evil, Devil May Cry, Persona 5, etc...
This year, I’ll be starting by finishing off Dragon Quest, playing Nier Automata, The Witcher 3, more Dragon Quest, Ace Attorney, etc... I’m excited, especially at the prospect of any of those characters in Smash.
That’s part of why I’ve gotten games that aren’t even in Smash yet, but I’ve heard are quality. It’s why 2019 was filled with Resident Evil, Devil May Cry, Persona 5, etc...
This year, I’ll be starting by finishing off Dragon Quest, playing Nier Automata, The Witcher 3, more Dragon Quest, Ace Attorney, etc... I’m excited, especially at the prospect of any of those characters in Smash.
Yacobo
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People have yet to come up for a reason for Zelda, Pokemon, and Mario getting so much content throughout smash history so I still don't see a reason not to believe popularity has something to do with it.
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I think I went there maybe twice.
I know nothing about Tales and I'd be more than happy with Velvet over Lloyd mainly for her VA.
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Because it's completely irrelevant. The entire point of what people are saying is that there isn't a direct correlation between series sales and number of characters, nor should there be. Unless you really think Earthbound is a third the size of Zelda. Because if you want franchises to be proportional, they all need to be. You can't pick and choose. So either the roster has thirty Pokémon, twenty-five Mario characters, a handful of Zelda characters, and literally nothing else, or we get what we have now. Your choice.
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