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Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

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Yacobo

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It's really funny how some Smash fans give Sakurai grief for "he changes his mind!"

I mean, yeah, people do change their ideas about things, especially in years. Just because Smash fans are infamously close-minded to new ideas doesn't mean Sakurai can't think rationally.
I didn't do that. I'm against using his quotes as sources as if they're set in stone or if he's a perfect being. I don't use his words as arguments because there's a good chance he'll contradict himself later. Otherwise we'd still be making the "this character is too big" argument.
 

Cutie Gwen

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Sakurai: "I give the composers total freedom on which songs to remix which is why Mega Man and Castlevania have so many remixes. One guy even made like 30 Fire Emblem remixes cause he likes it that much"

Clearly proof Sakurai is a demon trying to eradicate all games not called Fire Emblem and should be put in prison for giving DK and Diddy realistic animal noises like back in the good old days
 

Opossum

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The context of the conversation was whether or not 3H should get a new character.



The argument is that FE characters are neither popular nor diverse enough to justify getting in.



It's not going to guaruntee my most wanted but to go through Smash 4 of FE CONSTANTLY getting new stuff while Zelda, Dk, and Metroid got barely anything was ridiculous. Especially for the FE fanbase to still not be satisfied despite getting 50x more content than any other series of its size.

Again, why should I be grateful when FE doesn't give us another clone when it's what we're guaranteed a new(and usually more diverse than FE's) moveset no matter who gets in? The only way this argument makes sense if literally every non FE character were clones.
Do K. Rool, Ridley, and Dark Samus just not exist now or something?

Also lol at thinking any of the potential Three Houses characters would be clones.
 

Calamitas

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Gotta love how most FE debates on here start as a joke, only to turn into an actual debate.

Interesting. Let's see if this one is legit then. From what I understand, there's some confusion with the dates? So it could actually be an older image?
The confusion - or at least my confusion - stems from the fact that the SKUs in that tweet list 12/31/2019 as their release date, when I think it should be 12/31/2020. That's why I'm not willing to really believe it yet.

I literally never said anything about music. Outside of the lack of Twilight of the Gods and Divine Decree, I have zero issues with Fire Emblem's music selection. I think it's great.
You may say that, but I think it's pretty stupid that the only track we got from Fates was Lost in Thought All Alone in like four or five versions, with songs like A Dark Fall, Alight, or Road Taken nowhere to be seen.
 

Mushroomguy12

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This is a game where Earthbound has two characters, two Assists, two items, and four stages. If franchise size actually meant anything we'd POTENTIALLY have Ness and Lucas as spirits. That's it.
And a game where Fire Emblem’s sister series had their only Assist Trophy removed and never had any playable characters to begin with, despite being associated with Fire Emblem until the last ten years and being one of the main reasons Fire Emblem came to the West in the first place along Melee.
 
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Will

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Also lol at thinking any of the potential Three Houses characters would be clones.
of course they would, you just gotta be creative

edelgard! simon's axe. villager's axe. just those two moves, nothing else.
 

Schnee117

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"Increasingly" by selling the same amount of games as Awakening.
Fates sold better than Awakening and Three Houses is set to do better than that, we'll know come the next sales report.

FE Warriors was the worst selling switch exclusive for a while.
It sold over a million as of April 2018 despite launching a week before Mario Odyssey and the devs were happy with how it sold. Sounds like a success to me.

But you've made it increasingly clear you have an irrational bias so I'd do better talking to a brick wall.
 

Yacobo

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Do K. Rool, Ridley, and Dark Samus just not exist now or something?
It literally took a decade of constant fan campaigning for DK and Metroid to get a new character. FE just has to exist to get the same amount of characters as pokemon in smash 4.

Also lol at thinking any of the potential Three Houses characters would be clones.
Where did I say that?
 

Ramen Tengoku

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Since we're already completely off-topic: the new Melee Tourney, combined with the Smash 64 Tourney in August of the last year, implies we could also get Brawl and Smash 4 Tourneys down the line.

Heck, maybe also one for Ultimate and its newcomers. That would be one interesting thing to do after DLC is concluded.
the brawl tourney would never be able to replicate the majesty of Meta Knight in that game, so what's even the point?
 
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osby

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I didn't do that. I'm against using his quotes as sources as if they're set in stone or if he's a perfect being. I don't use his words as arguments because there's a good chance he'll contradict himself later. Otherwise we'd still be making the "this character is too big" argument.
Changing your ideas about things in the span of years isn't contradicting yourself.

This fanbase is super eager to take Sakurai's words out of context and then blame him when they inevitably get things wrong. That's why him saying "making Ridley playable is possible but it would be hard" turned into some fans screaming "SAKURAI SAID RIDLEY IS IMPOSSIBLE BUT HES IN, THAT MEANS HE LIES ALL THE TIME".
 

3BitSaurus

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The Brawl tourney had better have banana peels on high frequency.
TOURNEY SPECIFICATIONS
For the duration of this Online Tourney:
- Tripping is on
- Diddy can spawn 2 Banana peels
- Olimar can have up to 6 Pikmin
- Ice Climbers can infinite chain grab
- All fighters' base speed, fall speed, fastfall speed, among other variables have been changed

To see the full list of changes, see the official Tourney page.

the brawl tourney would never be able to replicate the majesty of Meta Knight in that game, so what's even the point?
Brawl didn't have a metagame.

It had a Meta Knight.
 
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Ramen Tengoku

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it always goes back to Fire Emblem

Somewhere out there, there's an alternate universe where everyone complains about the multitude of Earthbound and Donkey Kong reps
 
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Yacobo

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Fates sold better than Awakening and Three Houses is set to do better than that, we'll know come the next sales report.
Being a switch exclusive, sales are guaranteed to go up at least considerably.
Last gen FE lost to Mario, Pokemon, Zelda, Animal Crossing, Luigi's Mansion, and Splatoon by wide margins, and it's happening again. The franchise is in the exact same position it's been in since 2013.
 

Yacobo

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it always goes back to Fire Emblem

Somewhere out there, there's an alternate universe where everyone complains about the multitude of Earthbound and Donkey Kong reps
In that universe I'd be arguing that Earthbound is over represented as well and the FE fans wouldn't be arguing against me.
 

osby

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it always goes back to Fire Emblem

Somewhere out there, there's an alternate universe where everyone complains about the multitude of Earthbound and Donkey Kong reps
Earthbound has as many fighters as Animal Crossing, so if Smash fans were concerned about fair representation as much as they claim to be, we'd have one of those.
 

Will

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In that universe I'd be arguing that Earthbound is over represented as well and the FE fans wouldn't be arguing against me.
plot twist we're all earthbound fans too
 

Cutie Gwen

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Being a switch exclusive, sales are guaranteed to go up at least considerably.
Last gen FE lost to Mario, Pokemon, Zelda, Animal Crossing, Luigi's Mansion, and Splatoon by wide margins, and it's happening again. The franchise is in the exact same position it's been in since 2013.
In 2013 the franchise was on the brink of death, nowadays, Nintendo says FE is one of their most important IPs. Also you're using Splatoon which means you're arguing about the Wii U but the Wii U had no Fire Emblem games, merely a very weird spinoff that could remove most of the Fire Emblem brand and barely change
 

Yacobo

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It's a shame that good jokes mean jack **** for actual arguments.
Please tell me how Heroes proves anything. Because no matter how you look at it it proves nothing.

If mobile game revenue was indicative of how big an ip was, then why has Mario been doing so poorly?
If we're going by mobile game revenue, why did FE get 6 characters before Heroes was even announced?
If we're going by mobile game revenue, then FE shouldn't even have 3 characters if we compared it's success to Pokemon Go.

It's a terrible argument for many reasons. I could even list a few more if you want.
 

osby

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Being a switch exclusive, sales are guaranteed to go up at least considerably.
Last gen FE lost to Mario, Pokemon, Zelda, Animal Crossing, Luigi's Mansion, and Splatoon by wide margins, and it's happening again. The franchise is in the exact same position it's been in since 2013.
Well, that means Donkey Kong and Metroid shouldn't have got newcomers when neither of them are in a better position now than they were in 2013. :p
 

Will

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If we're going by mobile game revenue, why did FE get 6 characters before Heroes was even announced?
Sakurai is psychic obviously. He called Mother 3's localization 47 years ahead of time! Just 35 more years to go!
 

Schnee117

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Being a switch exclusive, sales are guaranteed to go up at least considerably.
So the franchise is doing better because that's an increase in sales, just like I said.
Thanks for agreeing.

In 2013 the franchise was on the brink of death, nowadays, Nintendo says FE is one of their most important IPs. Also you're using Splatoon which means you're arguing about the Wii U but the Wii U had no Fire Emblem games, merely a very weird spinoff that could remove most of the Fire Emblem brand and barely change
No context, only numbers.

I wonder which character we'll get because 2020 is the year of the rat?
In spite of being a Boar, Dimitri is also a Rat.
 

Scoliosis Jones

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The context of the conversation was whether or not 3H should get a new character.



The argument is that FE characters are neither popular nor diverse enough to justify getting in.



It's not going to guaruntee my most wanted but to go through Smash 4 of FE CONSTANTLY getting new stuff while Zelda, Dk, and Metroid got barely anything was ridiculous. Especially for the FE fanbase to still not be satisfied despite getting 50x more content than any other series of its size.

Again, why should I be grateful when FE doesn't give us another clone when it's what we're guaranteed a new(and usually more diverse than FE's) moveset no matter who gets in? The only way this argument makes sense if literally every non FE character were clones.
1) I pointed out to you that, indeed, at least 3-4 of the Fire Emblem characters we have in Smash are popular, or otherwise became popular after their inclusion. If you checked Fire Emblem fan polls, you’d probably regularly find Ike and Lucina in a good amount of them.

2) Game development isn’t just a popularity contest. It comes down to a project plan, which includes a timeline of how much content can get added. Characters are picked based on bringing something new to the game, being a classic or being older. Lucina got in because, like Robin she was from the newest title and was easy to add based on Marth. She was also capable of satisfying fan demand, as there were definitely folks who wanted her. Believe me, I was in the support thread getting wrecked by supporters when I said she wouldn’t be a good newcomer.

3) At the time of Smash 4, the focus was mostly on newer characters. K.Rool, Dixie, Ridley...not exactly new characters. There’s also the fact that it’s been speculated Sakurai didn’t realize how requested K.Rool actually was until the Ballot, which is where the costume and subsequent addition came from. At the time of Wii U, Ridley was seen as “requested, but too big” and made into a stage boss. This clearly changed with Ultimate.

It’s not as if Sakurai can just add whoever he wants whenever he wants. The reason Bayo gets in as the “ballot winner” is because he has the resources at the time to put her in the game (meaning assets from ZSS). He didn’t have assets to necessarily build K.Rool or a playable Ridley from scratch.

4) I certainly didn’t say you had to be grateful for Fire Emblem. Just that whining about it because you clearly don’t like the series isn’t going to change the fact that you’re unhappy with it. It’s also rather hasty to say any particular character from Fire Emblem at this point would be a clone when literally none of them use a sword as a main weapon, but also that a moveset =\= function or archetype. You can play Chrom the same way as Roy because of hitboxes. You can’t necessarily play Lucina the same way as Marth because of hitboxes. They may have similar moves, but they do not have the same function.

If Smash were a gallery that we stared at, I would be more able to agree. But it’s a video game that we play, and the game itself requires careful planning to make it the best it can be. It’s not simple enough that it’s always going to be “popular, fully unique newcomers” 100% of the time. That’s just not how it has worked, nor how it has ever worked.
 

Ramen Tengoku

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That reminds me of how one point that people used in favour of Porky was that 2019 was the year of the pig in the Chinese zodiac, and that sure turned out well for him.

I wonder which character we'll get because 2020 is the year of the rat?
"REMY GETS COOKING!"
 

Will

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people who think they got sakurai all figured out but then see fire emblem win again in smash be like

imagu.gif


It's crazy how just mentioning FE can spark an entire gas fire of debates.
 
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Yacobo

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In 2013 the franchise was on the brink of death, nowadays, Nintendo says FE is one of their most important IPs. Also you're using Splatoon which means you're arguing about the Wii U but the Wii U had no Fire Emblem games, merely a very weird spinoff that could remove most of the Fire Emblem brand and barely change
Being on the Wii U, a flopped system, and still beating FE is a better indication than it winning on the same platform. Even then Splatoon 2 still sold more than 3 times as 3H, so there's that.

Even then, it's funny how you see it's unfair to compare a wii u game to 3ds when people are waving around Heroes when the majority of Nintendo Ips don't have a single mobile game. Totally a fair comparison.
 

King Sonnn DeDeDoo

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All I’m getting from this conversation is that we need more Animal Crossing content.

Therefore I demand that we get every single animal Villager as a fighter
0CB21D12-77B3-4373-8FA4-B1DC6FE3A286.jpeg


Look they already come prepackaged with a tier list!
 

Scoliosis Jones

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I guess my biggest thing is that this entire argument is a waste of time: none of the Fire Emblem characters are going anywhere, and if Sakurai cared about the fan opinions of “over representation” then he wouldn’t have added Chrom after saying he thought “Fire Emblem has too many characters” when he added Corrin.

I’d be much more willing to hear ideas of cool new characters that get into Smash without tearing down characters that are already in Smash.
 

BlueMonk

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pubg has outsold super mario bros so I nominate Player Unknown himself to join smash
 

Will

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All I’m getting from this conversation is that we need more Animal Crossing content.

Therefore I demand that we get every single animal Villager as a fighter

Look they already come prepackaged with a tier list!
Bob for Smash

imagu.gif


I’d be much more willing to hear ideas of cool new characters that get into Smash without tearing down characters that are already in Smash.
I want the mother****ing ship from Gradius as a fighter.

Gimme the spaceship.
 

Cutie Gwen

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Being on the Wii U, a flopped system, and still beating FE is a better indication than it winning on the same platform. Even then Splatoon 2 still sold more than 3 times as 3H, so there's that.

Even then, it's funny how you see it's unfair to compare a wii u game to 3ds when people are waving around Heroes when the majority of Nintendo Ips don't have a single mobile game. Totally a fair comparison.
It's not hard to have more Wii U sales when the competition you mention flatout didn't exist.

Splatoon 2 selling well doesn't mean 3H didn't sell well

The reason the mobile comparison works is because Fire Emblem has beaten out Animal Crossing and not 1, not 2, but T H R E E Mario games. So by your logic, Mario and Animal Crossing are complete failures
 
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