Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[perfectchaos83]

I was relieved when Guile was shown as the Assist Trophy because that meant Chun-Li still has a chance!

One Megaman character that isn’t even in the Final Smash that I always wanted was Roll, since she was traditionally Megaman’s clone in the MvC games. She would even have her own Roll squad in her Final Smash as well!

Basically this is my ideal Street Fighter and Mega Man representation in terms of characters from those series.

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I've always found Roll to be a cute addition to the Vs games. It's a shame that she's not in them much anymore.

 

[AceAttorney9000]

Now here's a silly idea for a new holiday game! If you could pick any character that originated in Christmas-themed media (4th parties count) for Smash DLC, who would you choose?

I would bring up Phoenix Wright, since the last case of the first game almost takes place on Christmas...

...only problem:

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

I've always found Roll to be a cute addition to the Vs games. It's a shame that she's not in them much anymore.

Hopefully the next Vs. game has a 50+ character roster so they have the leeway to focus on more than just the basics. Maybe don't get as crazy as Servbot unless they're pulling an Ultimate, but the freedom to add characters that aren't all that important, but make for great fun (like B.B. Hood, Shade Man, or Menat) would be amazing to see.

 

[Deleted member]

I love the Assist Trophies, it's a shame that fans hate them for ruining their dreams of wanting Waluigi/Isaac/Shadow/Skull Kid and others as fighters.

I'm pretty much neutral, though if the devs wanted them as assists, it's okay. Better than not being represented in the series at all.

 

[Koopaul]

I think people would feel better about their character being an assist if it weren't a random item spawn. If there was some way to have assists of your choice really fight along side you then I think people wouldn't be quite as upset. I may not be able to play as Spring Man but it would be nice to have him as my ally in a match.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

I think people would feel better about their character being an assist if it weren't a random item spawn. If there was some way to have assists of your choice really fight along side you then I think people wouldn't be quite as upset. I may not be able to play as Spring Man but it would be nice to have him as my ally in a match.

That reminds me, there was a rumour about assists functioning like MVC1 assists a good while ago, in which you picked a character and depending on what they did, you'd be able to summon them in matches to attack. Thor and Arthur were merely assists in MVC1 before becoming playable in 3 too. That'd have been cool to see

 

[M@R!3]

Merry Christmas, ya filthy animals.

 

[Dinoman96]

There's basically two categories for assist trophies

Characters that just don't make sense as a playable fighter (Dr. Kawashima, Nintendog, Andross, Mother Brain, Fly Swatter, etc)
Characters that are popular, but not popular/important enough to be prioritised for playable status (Waluigi, Ashley, Krystal, Lyn, Shovel Knight, Isaac, etc)

There's also Spring Man, who couldn't be made playable due to ARMS coming too late for the base roster and then Nintendo and Sakurai deciding to focus on third party characters for DLC.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

There's basically two categories for assist trophies

Characters that just don't make sense as a playable fighter (Dr. Kawashima, Nintendog, Andross, Mother Brain, Fly Swatter, etc)
Characters that are popular, but not popular/important enough to be prioritised for playable status (Waluigi, Ashley, Krystal, Lyn, Shovel Knight, Isaac, etc)

There's also Spring Man, who couldn't be made playable due to ARMS coming too late for the base roster and then Nintendo and Sakurai deciding to focus on third party characters for DLC.

I feel like Rex is also in the latter scenario. Except instead of being an Assist Trophy he’s a Mii Costume, but the point still stands.

Basically, I don’t think XC2 is the cutoff for a game being too late. I think ARMS would be that cutoff, actually. ARMS came out some months before XC2, iirc.

 

[waddledeeonredyoshi]

I don't think bad timing necessarily has to be the only reason for no playable Spring man.

Maybe Sakurai just didn't see the potential for a fully fledged character or didn't think Arms had proved itself unlike other recent IPs such as Splatoon or Xenoblade as worthy.

I think many people were dead set on Spring man atleast getting in as DLC and are still in disbelief that it didn't actually happen.

 

[Night Gale]

There's still a chance for Ribbon Girl, who was promoted as much as Spring Man. Although Dr. Coyle would be the ideal pick imo.

 

[Guynamednelson]

I don't think bad timing necessarily has to be the only reason for no playable Spring man.

Maybe Sakurai just didn't see the potential for a fully fledged character or didn't think Arms had proved itself unlike other recent IPs such as Splatoon or Xenoblade as worthy.

I think many people were dead set on Spring man atleast getting in as DLC and are still in disbelief that it didn't actually happen.

He was interested in Spring Man being a fighter, and did blame him being too new for the base game.

I just don't know why he didn't just wait for DLC to represent him then, if promoting an AT as a DLC would cause Nintendo to go bankrupt. It seems to be focused around that period as well, with the Hero focusing on DQXI.

 

[waddledeeonredyoshi]

He was interested in Spring Man being a fighter, and did blame him being too new for the base game.

I just don't know why he didn't just wait for DLC to represent him then, if promoting an AT as a DLC would cause Nintendo to go bankrupt. It seems to be focused around that period as well, with the Hero focusing on DQXI.

Could I get a source on that then?

 

[Dinoman96]

I just don't know why he didn't just wait for DLC to represent him then, if promoting an AT as a DLC would cause Nintendo to go bankrupt. It seems to be focused around that period as well, with the Hero focusing on DQXI.

Answer seems pretty obvious to me: They thought third party guests would make for better and exciting picks for DLC.

Because really, characters like Spring Man and Dixie Kong feel better as characters included in the base game, not characters you have to pay $5.99 for. If in say, Smash 4, characters like Palutena, Shulk or Robin weren't in the base game, they more than likely wouldn't of been made DLC.

Could I get a source on that then?

https://www.newsweek.com/smash-ultimate-decidueye-arms-dlc-1300400

As for characters from Nintendo Switch games like ARMS and Xenoblade Chronicles 2, Sakurai pointed to the lack of time to develop them as the reason. He needed to confirm the roster too far in advance to add characters from either game.

 

[Guynamednelson]

Answer seems pretty obvious to me: They thought third party guests would make for better and exciting picks for DLC.

Because really, characters like Spring Man and Dixie Kong feel better as characters included in the base game, not characters you have to pay $5.99 for. If in say, Smash 4, characters like Palutena, Shulk or Robin weren't in the base game, they more than likely wouldn't of been made DLC.

My "if promoting an AT as a DLC would cause Nintendo to go bankrupt" comment was a jab at that belief. Most people care about things other than having a bunch of copyrights on the title screen, hell Banjo-Kazooie's fanbase wishes they didn't add Microsoft's.

 

[Deleted member]

People really can’t let go that their favorite character isn’t playable huh?

 

[Guynamednelson]

People really can’t let go that their favorite character isn’t playable huh?

Actually, I did get my favorite character. I'm just not selfish enough to go "LOL TERRY'S IN AND NOT WALUIGI".

 

[Mushroomguy12]

Answer seems pretty obvious to me: They thought third party guests would make for better and exciting picks for DLC.
Because really, characters like Spring Man and Dixie Kong feel better as characters included in the base game, not characters you have to pay $5.99 for.

Well you have to pay $4.99 for Piranha Plant now (not exactly an exciting 3rd Party, or an exciting 1st Party for that matter), and you had to pay a similar price for Mewtwo, Lucas, and Roy in Smash 4 (Mewtwo if you didn't register both versions before a deadline), and you routinely have to pay $0.75 for Mii Costumes, so welp so much about your "feeling better" theory.

 

[Sari]

I really hate this sentiment that thinking an AT could have a chance for DLC means you're "delusional" or "in denial." Waluigi and Ashley are among my most wanted and while I'm not expecting them to become playable I'll just say that anything can happen. This is the game series where a Piranha Plant got in as a character, but people will still stick to their fanmade rules to act like they know everything about how Sakurai thinks and breathes.

Oh and saying that characters like Waluigi, Isaac, and Shovel Knight couldn't work as playable characters might be the dumbest thing I've read in a while.

 

[Ura]

I really hate this sentiment that thinking an AT could have a chance for DLC means you're "delusional" or "in denial." Waluigi and Ashley are among my most wanted and while I'm not expecting them to become playable I'll just say that anything can happen. This is the game series where a Piranha Plant got in as a character, but people will still stick to their fanmade rules to act like they know everything about how Sakurai thinks and breathes.

Oh and saying that characters like Waluigi, Isaac, and Shovel Knight couldn't work as playable characters might be the dumbest thing I've read in a while.

Well said my friend. And this goes double for Spirit characters as well who people underestimate.

 

[Deleted member]

I really hate this sentiment that thinking an AT could have a chance for DLC means you're "delusional" or "in denial." Waluigi and Ashley are among my most wanted and while I'm not expecting them to become playable I'll just say that anything can happen. This is the game series where a Piranha Plant got in as a character, but people will still stick to their fanmade rules to act like they know everything about how Sakurai thinks and breathes.

Oh and saying that characters like Waluigi, Isaac, and Shovel Knight couldn't work as playable characters might be the dumbest thing I've read in a while.

I agree with your post, doh I would add that it is also dumb to claim characters such as Pauline can’t be fighters.

Legit, I’ve met too many people on Discord who mocked me for saying Pauline can work as a Smash fighter because they believe “she only dances and gets kidnapped” (which is a lie because Minis exist).

 

[Guynamednelson]

saying that characters like Waluigi, Isaac, and Shovel Knight couldn't work as playable characters

Isaac's AT focusing on puzzle-solving abilities was a mistake.

 

[Dinoman96]

Well you have to pay $4.99 for Piranha Plant now (not exactly an exciting 3rd Party, or an exciting 1st Party for that matter), and you had to pay a similar price for Mewtwo, Lucas, and Roy in Smash 4 (Mewtwo if you didn't register both versions before a deadline), and you routinely have to pay $0.75 for Mii Costumes, so welp so much about your "feeling better" theory.

Piranha Plant is a special case because it was clearly meant to be part of the base roster as the game's "surprise character", but they didn't have enough time to do so. Hence why for awhile, it was a free bonus.

Mewtwo, Lucas and Roy are also a completely different thing because they're veteran characters that have already had their foot in the door. There's a different standard.

 

[Flyboy]

There's still a chance for Ribbon Girl, who was promoted as much as Spring Man. Although Dr. Coyle would be the ideal pick imo.

Finally...someone else with taste!

Twintelle is also acceptable.

 

[CroonerMike]

I really hate this sentiment that thinking an AT could have a chance for DLC means you're "delusional" or "in denial." Waluigi and Ashley are among my most wanted and while I'm not expecting them to become playable I'll just say that anything can happen. This is the game series where a Piranha Plant got in as a character, but people will still stick to their fanmade rules to act like they know everything about how Sakurai thinks and breathes.

Oh and saying that characters like Waluigi, Isaac, and Shovel Knight couldn't work as playable characters might be the dumbest thing I've read in a while.

It’s usually because the people who say that you’re in denial are delusional Themselves because Sakurai actually picked good choices for DLC such as banjo when those are the people who claimed “Ridley is too big, k rool is irrelevant, and banjo had only 2 games on n64 so he not important” and of course my favorite “Rex/Pyra are a shoo in for the base game!”.
(Before anyone tries to claim I’m trolling, yes I wanted Rex/Pyra so I’m not crapping on their fans)

They keep being wrong and they want to be right about something in their life so they choose the thing that would seem most obvious, but of course, we come to know that Sakurai will do what he wants and if he wants an assist or spirit upgrade, that’s what we are getting. Sorry to the guys not getting their obvious picks such as Rex/Pyra in the base game .

 

[Garteam]

Merry Christmas, y'all. Hope you eat lots of figgy pudding.

On a side note, I wouldn't expect DLC promotions, but completely writing them off seems just as bad. Anything could really happen and we don't have enough info to conclusive say whether or not a DLC character could join the fray.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Piranha Plant is a special case because it was clearly meant to be part of the base roster as the game's "surprise character", but they didn't have enough time to do so. Hence why for awhile, it was a free bonus.

Mewtwo, Lucas and Roy are also a completely different thing because they're veteran characters that have already had their foot in the door. There's a different standard.

There's no "clearly meant" at all. That's just a guess we have due to data we found a long time ago. The only actual thing we know is it was worked on while the base game was being worked on, which is a reason for the Palutena's Guidance.

Data can be interpreted many ways. It was likely meant to be DLC in the first place. Sakurai figured out the base roster a very long time ago. The way he speaks about it is that plans were kept in stone. It's not beyond clear on that front either. So we really don't know if it was ever meant for base, or if it was always bonus dlc from the start. The only thing we know is that Sakurai chose it at the same time as other base characters, but that's iffy too. Especially with rumors that Banjo was chosen around March 2018(I might be misremembering the Banjo rumor, though. If this is wrong, somebody please say something) This isn't when the character was worked on, but PP could've been chosen as early as August for all we know. The data didn't start existing till as early as September, which gives no real information either.

The data does lead to that as a possibility, though the Guidance means nothing as PP was programmed well before the game was finished. But considering it released really fast after the actual game did, and unique characters take around six months or more, it makes perfect sense to find game data around September 6th. To further clarify, the only thing pointing towards it being base is that the placement of the file was near other base game characters, but not at the very end. Every character was accounted for besides it. However, we don't know if the order of game data has anything to do with the exact "roster placement" or if it was just when they were worked on. Take Jigglypuff for example; usually it's near the end of the game data, but it doesn't mean it was always going to be cut either. Nor DLC. It just meant it was one of the last characters finished. It makes a lot of sense to work on PP late into the game if it was directly meant for DLC, so the data more or less doesn't say all that much.

That said, Sakurai may eventually give us more clear information. It's not like we should've known PP was even in development of when it was(anybody who paid attention to his earlier articles would know it was worked on before the base game released, anyway. Which already, as I noted, accounts for the Palutena's Guidance).

 

[ZaneHitsurugi]

I really hate this sentiment that thinking an AT could have a chance for DLC means you're "delusional" or "in denial." Waluigi and Ashley are among my most wanted and while I'm not expecting them to become playable I'll just say that anything can happen. This is the game series where a Piranha Plant got in as a character, but people will still stick to their fanmade rules to act like they know everything about how Sakurai thinks and breathes.

Oh and saying that characters like Waluigi, Isaac, and Shovel Knight couldn't work as playable characters might be the dumbest thing I've read in a while.

It is extremely unlikely that any ATs will get upgraded to being playable since it hasn't happened before.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

After beating FF7 for the first time I can conclude we were robbed harder than ever. Cloud was literally the biggest deal for Smash outside of maybe Sonic

 

[Deleted member]

After beating FF7 for the first time I can conclude we were robbed harder than ever. Cloud was literally the biggest deal for Smash outside of maybe Sonic

Favourite part of the game?

 

[Guynamednelson]

It is extremely unlikely that any ATs will get upgraded to being playable since it hasn't happened before.

That is understandable, however, this game has broken plenty of rules regarding the roster, and ATs have become more controversial with each game, hence why some people have hope. Why wait ten years for your character to mayyyyyyyyyybe have another chance?

 

[Sari]

It is extremely unlikely that any ATs will get upgraded to being playable since it hasn't happened before.

You could say the same thing about third parties never being in Smash since there weren't any in 64 or Melee. Anything could go especially with additional DLC being released more than a year after the base game's release.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Favourite part of the game?

Probably the entirety of Midgar, though the soldier march stood out to me too


As for ATs becoming playable in DLC, it's certainly possible if Sakurai wants it, I just think he thinks the AT role is good enough, same for Spirits and Mii costumes

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I'm doubting AT's being upgraded myself, but my doubt is a bit less for Post-Pass, and especially for beyond that if we get another Fighter's Pass.

Spirits post-pass though? Far bigger chances.

Anything is possible, cause we don't know Sakurai's thoughts. The only thing we've known that clearly won't happen is non-game 3rd parties. We have only one game with DLC, so any "rules" are not very set in stone to begin with. Not that expecting them to change is necessarily a good way to look at it, but it's more than fair to hope too. There's a difference between keeping expectations in check and shutting down the thought it could happen. The former makes sense while the latter is unnecessary and makes discussion completely unfun. Keeping an open mind is nice, after all.

 

[ZaneHitsurugi]

You could say the same thing about third parties never being in Smash since there weren't any in 64 or Melee. Anything could go especially with additional DLC being released more than a year after the base game's release.

A precedence has to be set. I wouldn't hold your breath for it at the moment.

 

[Guynamednelson]

A precedence has to be set. I wouldn't hold your breath for it at the moment.

They can't put in Ridley! Sakurai said he's too big!

 

[Dinoman96]

Until proven otherwise, I think the rest of the DLC is just going to entail previously unrepresented third party series.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

A precedence has to be set. I wouldn't hold your breath for it at the moment.

There is no precedent set in the first place. DLC is completely different. There's nothing to go off of.

We already know characters in an NPC role don't matter. Chrom is still a Final Smash. This is a big thing. The precedent Ultimate set is that an NPC can be in a player character role in the same game to begin with. Of course it doesn't mean a AT upgrade for DLC is likely, but there are no actual rules we can state cause it's purely a fan-created rule.

Sakurai has never actually at any point said that someone in an NPC role cannot be upgraded for DLC. A DLC set last game had no actual particular special thing about it. It was all over the place with zero rules in place. The actual thing about that DLC is that he chose certain characters in some cases to fill a specific objective; Mewtwo is "the" veteran. Roy is a Melee vet, and Lucas is a Brawl vet. The rest were interesting 3rd party choices in their own way, and then Corrin was related to advertising, but they almost didn't get in if Sakurai's team hadn't convinced him they could be unique. Smash Ultimate made something; the first character was a bonus who became a purchase later. The Fighter's Pass is actually a preset of characters that are supposed to be unexpected(with nothing made clear beyond that). The only reason the whole Spirits Disconfirm thing makes logical sense is due to rumors that DLC was chosen around the same that Sakurai removed various Spirits from the base game, including playable ones. And that's still guesswork, but it has better logic behind it than "npc role" which is clearly not an active rule.

Basically? There's little precedent to look at in the first place. If it was such a big thing, Sakurai would've cared enough to change Robin's Final Smash to another fitting character. But he didn't. It's a waste of resources when you have the work already done. Nor does it matter. AT's do matter more in gameplay, but we know they can be manually turned off under circumstances, eliminating the only real thing stopping them from being upgraded in the first place. It also takes less work cause you have a base model and some animations done. The only actual reason Sakurai wouldn't want to comes down to either a principle thing(which there's nothing wrong with) or it's a 3rd party he can't license(or 2nd party, companies not cooperating, same point overall). Beyond that, it's not a precedent at all. That's holding too close to patterns that aren't even one to begin with. We don't have enough DLC seasons, or for that matter, games with DLC to really get a good structure of what he's doing. For that matter, he likes to be unexpected and not follow a pattern just cause we see it as one. Development nor thoughts are that simple. Fanrules aren't really good to hold onto too hard, honestly.

 

[blackghost]

i for one am glad zero is an AT and not playable. zero is always top tier in every fighting game hes in. for those that dont know zer0 always has: a fast run speed, mutiple projectiles, a multidirectional teleport, a sword, pizza cutter, and shadow follow.

characters like zero, lyn, and akira all could have full movesets, but most AT really dont seem like they could.
and some AT are actually better as AT's than playable characters (guile is a one of the best meta jokes ive ever seen in a game)

 

[StarBot]

this game has broken plenty of rules regarding the roster

"This game broken so many rules"

Translation: "we are pulling a revisionist story to make _____ surporters the underdogs"

Seriously, there wasn't no rules

This is extremely minior, and dosn't matter but I keep hearing Doomguy surporters screaming " & disproves you can have guns / M-rated characters in game now!!!!"

Suddenly forgetting that was thing

And his & fans kept screaming, "Our character got in!! That's means you don't have to be revelant or popular!"

Never mind that characters like was in the game for a long while now

(Also ingoreing that Banjo was never a inrevelant character)
And how Sakurai always said revelanty never matter, but it took him repeating it again in the Terry demonstration that now the fandom wants to hammer it and force it down people's neck

Which the exception of , of the "too big" agrument

None of these "rules" was ever rules, and majority of them was already broken before the character that supposedly "broken" it, broken it