Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[SMAASH! Puppy]

If you think the points made about the lack of non-Sakurai Kirby content aren't evidence of bias, you could explain why.

Perhaps Sakurai doesn't have to negotiate for old Kirby stuff, or more likely, Sakurai knows the ins and outs of the old Kirby material so ideas on its integration come more naturally than the new stuff.

 

[Guynamednelson]

Heck, even Guile might be too.

I can't see it since he only has an iconic duo of specials, not a trio. And the AT might be a better Guile simulator.

 

[Knight Dude]

I can't see it since he only has an iconic duo of specials, not a trio. And the AT might be a better Guile simulator.

You misread that statement. I wasn't saying Guile would be better as an AT upgrade. I was saying he might be a more popular character than Waluigi OUTSIDE the context of Smash. Whereas I would feel more confident in saying Knuckles and Zero are soundly more popular than Waluigi is outside of Smash Bros.

Though Guile's AT status is honestly the best. If only for the meta-joke of him using his typical playstyle.

On an un-related note, Mega Man X won a popularity contest for the Mega Man X Dive game. Not too surprising. But it had to be either him or Zero. I was under the impression that Mega Man was the #1 most popular, than Zero as #2, than Mega Man X as #3, but I guess that order can fluctuate a bit.

 

[TheCJBrine]

No it goddamn wouldn't.

Let me rephrase that:

It’d be cool in my personal opinion. If you don’t like the idea, that’s cool too. I’d prefer other characters, but I’d still like it, as even though I very much want some characters, I don’t really take these character spots so seriously and only argue non-speculation stuffs sometimes because of toxic crap some people spout.

 

[Hadokeyblade]

I feel like I see more people telling others to chill on Smash news than I see Thirst Masters......but yeah. Just enjoy the time off or hanging out with your family. Holiday vibes and all that jazz.



They could just make GBA Zero a costume yeah. If they wanted a Simon/Richter deal, Geo and .EXE could borrow moves from each other. MMX and Zero could too, but their differences are more drastic I feel. Like, you could even put Mega Man X and Axl in a fighting game(not just Smash) and in theory, make them have a Ryu/Ken dynamic, but that would mostly be limiting on Mega Man X's part, since he'd mostly stick to MMX7 weapons, where he and Axl share the same boss weapons.

Final Smash characters being playable at least happened once. And while it's pretty unlikely to happen again, I'm still gonna show some support for Mega Man X and the rest of the Gang Members. But if we did see someone get the AT upgrade, it'll probably be Waluigi because of how popular he is in the context of Smash. Outside of Smash, Knuckles and Zero I'm pretty sure are Waaaaaaaaay more popular. Heck, even Guile might be too.

EDIT: If you want to talk more Mega Man Stuff, I already made a thread, though I don't know if you saw it already.

I imagine Geo having a gimmick similar to Clouds limit gauge, where a bar fills up and when it reaches max your Mega buster gets a big charge shot. Similar to how it worked in the Star force games.

Perhaps Sakurai doesn't have to negotiate for old Kirby stuff, or more likely, Sakurai knows the ins and outs of the old Kirby material so ideas on its integration come more naturally than the new stuff.

I feel like this is the most likely explanation

 

[Cosmic77]

Perhaps Sakurai doesn't have to negotiate for old Kirby stuff, or more likely, Sakurai knows the ins and outs of the old Kirby material so ideas on its integration come more naturally than the new stuff.

Well, he did say that he was considering an Epic Yarn stage for Smash Wii U, but ultimately decided not to go through with it because he was unfamiliar with the game and Yoshi had an upcoming game featuring the yarn shtick.

Doesn't really explain why a Triple Deluxe stage couldn't be made for the 3DS though, or why we didn't get a Return to Dreamland stage for the Wii U. He should've been able to easily make a stage from either game using only his existing knowledge of the series.

 

[Deleted member]

Picture 2 has presents and picture 3 has a pokemon, clearly this means Deliberd is FP5

Deliberd? No it's obviously Baboom wearing a Santa hat.

 

[SpectreJordan]

You misread that statement. I wasn't saying Guile would be better as an AT upgrade. I was saying he might be a more popular character than Waluigi OUTSIDE the context of Smash. Whereas I would feel more confident in saying Knuckles and Zero are soundly more popular than Waluigi is outside of Smash Bros.

Though Guile's AT status is honestly the best. If only for the meta-joke of him using his typical playstyle.

On an un-related note, Mega Man X won a popularity contest for the Mega Man X Dive game. Not too surprising. But it had to be either him or Zero. I was under the impression that Mega Man was the #1 most popular, than Zero as #2, than Mega Man X as #3, but I guess that order can fluctuate a bit.

I think X/Zero are more popular than MM classic in general. It’s just that Classic is more iconic.

 

[Deleted member]

If I would promote an assist trophy, it would be the Metroid but as the Baby Metroid from Return Of Samus.

No joking, I legit think they would be a creative and fun fighter to work with.

I would also do some sort of Pauline promotion if possible.

 

[DrifloonEmpire]

It has to be the one and only Scrooge McDuck! My true fourth party want and this is a perfect excuse to get him bouncing into battle! Based on his NES incarnation, of course, but perhaps the stage can cycle through the famous stages from the game as well as a fun Christmas scene.

Very clever choice! While he isn't from a Christmas franchise, a lot of people seem to forget his first appearence in Christmas on Bear Mountain! Cheers to you for remembering his debut!

 

[wynn728]

Assist Trophies aren't getting promoted. Sakurai has stated that Assist Trophies status are for characters that he doesn't believe will work as playable characters. Look at the three characters that did get promoted; Little Mac who was based on his redesign from the Punch-Out Wii game, Dark Samus who's a clone, and Isabelle who is a semi-clone. Out of the three Assist Trophies upgrade only one has a unique moveset, and each character was only an Assist Trophy for one game.

If the characters was an Assist Trophy for multiple game then their fate is sealed since Sakurai deems them to not have potential as a playable character, even knowing that they were really requested which doesn't seem to matter at all considering

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Assist Trophies aren't getting promoted. Sakurai has stated that Assist Trophies status are for characters that he doesn't believe will work as playable characters. Look at the three characters that did get promoted; Little Mac who was based on his redesign from the Punch-Out Wii game, Dark Samus who's a clone, and Isabelle who is a semi-clone. Out of the three Assist Trophies upgrade only one has a unique moveset, and each character was only an Assist Trophy for one game.

If the characters was an Assist Trophy for multiple game then their fate is sealed since Sakurai deems them to not have potential as a playable character, even knowing that they were really requested which doesn't seem to matter at all considering

And even then this whole "Assists getting promoted" are just those who are still in denial such as over Waluigi.

They just have to accept that they have to wait until next game if there is one that is.

 

[Garteam]

Assist Trophies aren't getting promoted. Sakurai has stated that Assist Trophies status are for characters that he doesn't believe will work as playable characters. Look at the three characters that did get promoted; Little Mac who was based on his redesign from the Punch-Out Wii game, Dark Samus who's a clone, and Isabelle who is a semi-clone. Out of the three Assist Trophies upgrade only one has a unique moveset, and each character was only an Assist Trophy for one game.

If the characters was an Assist Trophy for multiple game then their fate is sealed since Sakurai deems them to not have potential as a playable character, even knowing that they were really requested which doesn't seem to matter at all considering

The thing is, Sakurai's thoughts on whether or not a character would work well for Smash changes all the time. For example, Villager, Pac-Man, Miis, and Ridley were all deemed to be unworkable at one point but got in with a full moveset at a later date.

Likewise, Punch-Out Wii didn't actually give Little Mac any new abilities outside of Giga Mac, so he had basically the same moveset potential for Brawl that he did for Smash for Wii U/3DS. It was Sakurai's perspective on the character that shifted, not the character themselves.

 

[Krankees]

Assist Trophies aren't getting promoted. Sakurai has stated that Assist Trophies status are for characters that he doesn't believe will work as playable characters. Look at the three characters that did get promoted; Little Mac who was based on his redesign from the Punch-Out Wii game, Dark Samus who's a clone, and Isabelle who is a semi-clone. Out of the three Assist Trophies upgrade only one has a unique moveset, and each character was only an Assist Trophy for one game.

If the characters was an Assist Trophy for multiple game then their fate is sealed since Sakurai deems them to not have potential as a playable character, even knowing that they were really requested which doesn't seem to matter at all considering

I don't know if it's that they don't have potential. It might be some other reason because characters like Shovel Knight and Zero definitely have potential to be fighters.

 

[DevaAshera]

Yeah, Sakurai is pretty fickle on his thoughts on characters..I think the only character inclusion thing that Sakurai will ever stick to is no non-game characters.

 

[lordvaati]

Very clever choice! While he isn't from a Christmas franchise, a lot of people seem to forget his first appearence in Christmas on Bear Mountain! Cheers to you for remembering his debut!

I Mean even if people forget that, I think nearly everyone is familiar with the Disney version of A Christmas Carol which was many's first meeting with McDuck.

 

[KillerCage]

Merry Christmas to all and to all a good night!

Merry Almost Christmas everyone!

Now here's a silly idea for a new holiday game! If you could pick any character that originated in Christmas-themed media (4th parties count) for Smash DLC, who would you choose?

Obvious memes aside I'd have to go with the Grinch, since he has a lot of hilarious moveset potential and either Mt. Crumpet or Whoville as seen in either of the movies would make for a fantastic and colorful stage!

My first choice would've normally been Charlie Brown but as a huge fan of Peanuts I have to say he unfortunately doesn't count. The Peanuts comic strip had already been running for 15 years when the special aired.

Do these guys count?

According to this video all the Metroid and Dragon Quest reps aren’t on Santa’s naughty list and I like it:

YOU LIE! ZERO SUIT SAMUS DIDN"T MAKE IT!
Although the Belmonts, Banjo & Kazooie, Megaman, Snake, and PAC-MAN are good boys (and girl.)
Also there is no god, only R.O.B.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Do these guys count?

I watched that film yesterday. A fun film it was.

 

[Schnee117]

. Sakurai has stated that Assist Trophies status are for characters that he doesn't believe will work as playable characters.

Citation Needed.

 

[wynn728]

Citation Needed.

http://iwataasks.nintendo.com/interviews/#/wii/ssbb/4/1
I mean, there are lots of popular games with characters that just aren’t meant for fighting and were too hard to incorporate into the Smash Bros. title.

 

[Deleted member]

http://iwataasks.nintendo.com/interviews/#/wii/ssbb/4/1
I mean, there are lots of popular games with characters that just aren’t meant for fighting and were too hard to incorporate into the Smash Bros. title.

That is a Brawl interview.

In Smash 4 he added Little Mac, who was a Brawl assist trophy.

So maybe Sakurai could have changed his view since then a bit.

 

[Schnee117]

http://iwataasks.nintendo.com/interviews/#/wii/ssbb/4/1
I mean, there are lots of popular games with characters that just aren’t meant for fighting and were too hard to incorporate into the Smash Bros. title.

So something that's extremely outdated then.
That and he's speaking about Mr Resetti and a Nintendog rather than Assists as a blanket statement.

 

[TheCJBrine]

http://iwataasks.nintendo.com/interviews/#/wii/ssbb/4/1
I mean, there are lots of popular games with characters that just aren’t meant for fighting and were too hard to incorporate into the Smash Bros. title.

That doesn’t mean he thinks that way for every AT character; that’d be pretty silly, especially after Little Mac. Other AT characters are clearly capable of being fighters, and we have characters most people likely wouldn’t have thought of as fighters and yet they are. He just adds some ATs to represent the characters in another way, since he decided on some others for fighters and had no future plans at the time, and figured fans would still be happy they joined the battle in some form. Then of course there are the AT characters and such whom clearly wouldn’t be fighters, like Helirin, the Moon from Majora’s Mask, and the Nintendog in each game.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

That is a Brawl interview.

In Smash 4 he added Little Mac, who was a Brawl assist trophy.

So maybe Sakurai could have changed his view since then a bit.

To be fair, changing his mind for a later game is vastly different from changing his mind for DLC coming up. It's not really the same situation. There's no example of a current character in an NPC role who was upgraded via DLC. There's no actual precedent to say it has a good chance to happen.

I don't agree AT's are impossible, but I won't deny they are major gameplay pieces and don't feel that likely to begin with. The way I get the impression is that Sakurai is generally happy with the representation a series get in general. It doesn't mean he can't change his mind among a single game. This is also the first game to do a proper "season" of sorts regardless, not just a few thrown together 6 DLC with different criteria. This is way more organized.

Of course, if the question is "will the AT interfere with gameplay or confusion", that's a no. They can be disabled just like hazards can when playing as the same character. It's not an issue. It's a matter of principle/philosophy on Sakurai's part. He'll do what he wants, but it doesn't mean he's likely to change his core gameplan in a single game once it releases. It's worth noting that he actually has said he's not a fan of DLC cause he wants the game to feel complete the first time around. If we take this into account, there's a fair chance he thinks the spots for these characters are very reasonable and don't need to look at them again. But once again, this is also a different ball game so who knows what'll happen. I'd love an Isaac, Waluigi, Ashley, and many others upgraded. I'd love to see a flowing Bomberman moveset too. They all are more than great choices, among many others. Most AT could make for easy choices at this point. Some might feel like they're not too important to their franchise, though. But it's all subjective anyway on who is the best to promote.

 

[wynn728]

The thing is, Sakurai's thoughts on whether or not a character would work well for Smash changes all the time. For example, Villager, Pac-Man, Miis, and Ridley were all deemed to be unworkable at one point but got in with a full moveset at a later date.

Likewise, Punch-Out Wii didn't actually give Little Mac any new abilities outside of Giga Mac, so he had basically the same moveset potential for Brawl that he did for Smash for Wii U/3DS. It was Sakurai's perspective on the character that shifted, not the character themselves.

Sure, Sakurai change his mind from time to time, but Assist Trophies so far have been a constant for 10 years. We only have one Assist Trophy with a unique moveset and characters that were Assist Trophies multiple times haven't gotten in at all.

 

[Schnee117]

That is a Brawl interview.

In Smash 4 he added Little Mac, who was a Brawl assist trophy.

So maybe Sakurai could have changed his view since then a bit.

You can tell just by looking at the Assists added in Ultimate

Knuckles, Guile, Zero, Alucard, Akira, Black Knight, Shovel Knight etc.

That they're so fleshed out for an assist is basically a consolation/indication of notability.

 

[LightKnight]

It's worth noting that he actually has said he's not a fan of DLC cause he wants the game to feel complete the first time around.

And seems he's continued to keep true to that because despite Ultimate not having as many newly introduced characters in the base roster, all previous ones are back and you'd be somewhat hard-pressed to say the game isn't packed with lots of other features. But maybe we'll get a total of around 16 new characters from Ultimate by the time DLC wraps up.

 

[wynn728]

That doesn’t mean he thinks that way for every AT character; that’d be pretty silly, especially after Little Mac. Other AT characters are clearly capable of being fighters, and we have characters most people likely wouldn’t have thought of as fighters and yet they are. He just adds some ATs to represent the characters in another way, since he decided on some others for fighters and had no future plans at the time, and figured fans would still be happy they joined the battle in some form. Then of course there are the AT characters and such whom clearly wouldn’t be fighters, like Helirin, the Moon from Majora’s Mask, and the Nintendog in each game.

If there are characters that are constantly being turned into Assist Trophies despite the fact there's a lot of fan support for them and have moveset potential then Sakurai isn't seeing what other people are. Again, Sakurai rather come up with a moveset for a Piranha Plant instead of characters that were Assist Ttophies multiple times, like Waluigi as an example.

 

[Megadoomer]

If there are characters that are constantly being turned into Assist Trophies despite the fact there's a lot of fan support for them and have moveset potential then Sakurai isn't seeing what other people are. Again, Sakurai rather come up with a moveset for a Piranha Plant instead of characters that were Assist Ttophies multiple times, like Waluigi as an example.

Charizard and Ridley were both in NPC roles multiple times - Charizard as a Pokeball summon in both the N64 game and Melee, in a role that's very similar to assist trophies, while Ridley was a boss in Brawl and a stage hazard in Smash 4. Presumably, Sakurai either didn't feel like they needed to be made playable, or he couldn't figure out how to make them work, but things changed in later games.

Just because a character is an assist trophy in two or three games, that doesn't magically make it so they're permanently stuck in that role for all future Smash games. I doubt that we'll be getting assist trophy upgrades within the same game (so I can't see us getting Waluigi as a DLC character in Ultimate, for example), but it shouldn't have an impact on future games, since Charizard became playable when he was in almost exactly the same circumstances.

 

[Koopaul]

There's absolutely know way of knowing what Sakurai has planned post Fighters Pass. In the Banjo presentation it sounds like his choice to continue DLC was to "please more fans" and that "there may never be another oppertunity to have this many game worlds together".

My interpretation is that he sees how wonderful it is to unite so many game series under one game and wishes to continue to cover more. This may mean all the DLC will be from new series. But that is one way of looking at it.

 

[osby]

I know Sakurai is the only person who ever works on Smash but I think we might need to reconsider the remote possibility of Nintendo having a say in DLC line-up.

If there are characters that are constantly being turned into Assist Trophies despite the fact there's a lot of fan support for them and have moveset potential then Sakurai isn't seeing what other people are. Again, Sakurai rather come up with a moveset for a Piranha Plant instead of characters that were Assist Ttophies multiple times, like Waluigi as an example.

Piranha Plant was chosen deliberately for being an unconventional fighter. So, it wasn't competing with popular characters in the first place.

People place way too much importance to ATs, imo. They aren't a waiting list for being a fighter but they are not a ban from the playable roster either.

 

[Koopaul]

I know Sakurai is the only person who ever works on Smash but I think we might need to reconsider the remote possibility of Nintendo having a say in DLC line-up.

Oh trust me I think a lot of us know that Nintendo was the one that made the list of eligible fighters. But Sakurai seems to be the person who picked which ones he thought would be best realized as fighters.

After all, it's Nintendo that has to deal with the legal side of things, and Sakurai's team who actually has to make the fighter. Neither Nintendo or Sakurai can make this decision themselves.

 

[GoodGrief741]

I wish you all a smashing good Christmas!

 

[Mushroomguy12]

I can't see it since he only has an iconic duo of specials, not a trio. And the AT might be a better Guile simulator.

I was relieved when Guile was shown as the Assist Trophy because that meant Chun-Li still has a chance!

I feel like I see more people telling others to chill on Smash news than I see Thirst Masters......but yeah. Just enjoy the time off or hanging out with your family. Holiday vibes and all that jazz.



They could just make GBA Zero a costume yeah. If they wanted a Simon/Richter deal, Geo and .EXE could borrow moves from each other. MMX and Zero could too, but their differences are more drastic I feel. Like, you could even put Mega Man X and Axl in a fighting game(not just Smash) and in theory, make them have a Ryu/Ken dynamic, but that would mostly be limiting on Mega Man X's part, since he'd mostly stick to MMX7 weapons, where he and Axl share the same boss weapons.

Final Smash characters being playable at least happened once. And while it's pretty unlikely to happen again, I'm still gonna show some support for Mega Man X and the rest of the Gang Members. But if we did see someone get the AT upgrade, it'll probably be Waluigi because of how popular he is in the context of Smash. Outside of Smash, Knuckles and Zero I'm pretty sure are Waaaaaaaaay more popular. Heck, even Guile might be too.

EDIT: If you want to talk more Mega Man Stuff, I already made a thread, though I don't know if you saw it already.

One Megaman character that isn’t even in the Final Smash that I always wanted was Roll, since she was traditionally Megaman’s clone in the MvC games. She would even have her own Roll squad in her Final Smash as well!

Basically this is my ideal Street Fighter and Mega Man representation in terms of characters from those series.

 

[Deleted member]

http://iwataasks.nintendo.com/interviews/#/wii/ssbb/4/1
I mean, there are lots of popular games with characters that just aren’t meant for fighting and were too hard to incorporate into the Smash Bros. title.

You know, This reminds me when some Steveposters back in the good ol banjo vs steve wars brought up an old Sakurai article when he said characters with no future are rarely chosen meaning steve was in according to them but boy look what happen then

His articles aren’t concrete

 

[Will]

This reminds me when some Steveposters

please dont call them that

ugly steve posters were trolls, nothing more. a real steveposter respects the character they support and banjo alike.

 

[LightKnight]

back in the good ol banjo vs steve wars brought up an old Sakurai article when he said characters with no future are rarely chosen meaning steve was in according to them but boy look what happen then

"characters with no future are RAREly chosen"
Wait…. The clues were there all along!!

 

[Deleted member]

a real steveposter respects the character they support and banjo alike.

those aren’t Steveposters. They’re real ones that want him because they like him that’s all.

 

[Will]

those aren’t Steveposters. They’re real ones that want him because they like him that’s all.

yeah but they should have the common decency to be a decent human being

unless youre assuming all steve supporters aren't

 

[Mamboo07]

I love the Assist Trophies, it's a shame that fans hate them for ruining their dreams of wanting Waluigi/Isaac/Shadow/Skull Kid and others as fighters.