Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[Vrbtm]

Joker.

Does not primarily use a gun. It's just an option. He primarily uses Personas (or Personae, I guess).

 

[Gimmick-Hater]

I don't see the issue with characters that primarily use guns. Especially in the case of Fortnite, where there are so many wacky guns & items. You've got flint locks that launch the player & person they've shoot at massive distance away from eachother, rocket launchers that fire missiles at a time, stink grenades, boom boxes, fireworks, grappling guns, smoke bombs, drum gun, etc... Don't even get me started on stuff like the Infinity Blade.

 

[NickoRaptor]

The argument that anything "doesn't belong in Smash" is silly honestly. This is coming from someone who used to feel the same way before Ultimate came out. The only characters that don't really belong are characters originating outside of videogames. Sakurai has even said this in some form, from what I recall.

Anyone and anything that has history with Nintendo or videogame history as a whole (and originated from a videogame) deserves a place in Smash in some form, whether everyone likes it or not.

And really, most do like it when they actually see it in-game as well. Like, there's some characters I really wouldn't like in the game, but I'll wind up loving any addition in the end regardless. This game isn't just for me, it's for everyone.

 

[Ben Holt]

...Anyway, ignoring this trivial argument about guns in Smash, I've really grown fond of the Google Theory.
At first, I was completely in the fake camp because Artorias is so random and not even the face of Dark Souls and, more damningly, Erdrick was absent despite having a mountain of evidence in his favor.
But now that the leak has had time to age and evolve, I'm starting to see that Artorias might have been a fluke due to Google's algorithm automatically associating Artorias with DLC, and given the fact that Nintendo are most likely aware of Erdrick being a near open secret, they likely took precautions to cover him up specifically.
This also lines up 90% with the supposedly debunked 5chan leak, which may be a case of Gematsu Syndrome (early info that included planned content that was scrapped). Nintendo may have cut female Joker and Jack Frost and decided on Banjo over Steve afterwards.

 

[Vrbtm]

...Anyway, ignoring this trivial discussion about Google theory:

I don't see the issue with characters that primarily use guns. Especially in the case of Fortnite, where there are so many wacky guns & items. You've got flint locks that launch the player & person they've shoot at massive distance away from eachother, rocket launchers that fire missiles at a time, stink grenades, boom boxes, fireworks, grappling guns, smoke bombs, drum gun, etc... Don't even get me started on stuff like the Infinity Blade.

They're not THAT wacky. I'd take a look at someone like Ratchet for that. Now that's a good character for Smash (not that he has a chance).

The argument that anything "doesn't belong in Smash" is silly honestly. This is coming from someone who used to feel the same way before Ultimate came out. The only characters that don't really belong are characters originating outside of videogames. Sakurai has even said this in some form, from what I recall.

Anyone and anything that has history with Nintendo or videogame history as a whole (and originated from a videogame) deserves a place in Smash in some form, whether everyone likes it or not.

And really, most do like it when they actually see it in-game as well. Like, there's some characters I really wouldn't like in the game, but I'll wind up loving any addition in the end regardless. This game isn't just for me, it's for everyone.

Well, kumba-****ing-ya then.

**** anyone who doesn't like absolutely everything, right?

 

[Gimmick-Hater]

Speaking of Joker, I don't think he belongs in Smash. It just doesn't make sense to me. Joker, as a character, has very little history with Nintendo. Sure franchise he comes from does, but he himself barely shows up on Nintendo consoles. On top of that, he's way to violent and uses guns (which is a big no no when it comes to Smash, the exception being Bayonetta's guns, but her guns are cartoony so it's justified).

Besides, if they did add a DC character, it'd make more sense to add Batman. I guess Joker could make it in due to the Joker movie coming up, but who knows.

 

[Vrbtm]

Speaking of Joker, I don't think he belongs in Smash. It just doesn't make sense to me. Joker, as a character, has very little history with Nintendo. Sure franchise he comes from does, but he himself barely shows up on Nintendo consoles. On top of that, he's way to violent and uses guns (which is a big no no when it comes to Smash, the exception being Bayonetta's guns, but her guns are cartoony so it's justified).

This, but unironically.

 

[Deleted member]

Gotta hand it to you Vrbtm It's been fun reading your silly argument and you made this thread more active thanks to it.

 

[Robdelia]

No one who primarily uses firearms should be in Smash, or is even likely to be in Smash because of it, so that rules out any Fortnite crap.

How do you feel about characters like Samus or Mega Man? Or Mii Gunner for that matter.

 

[3BitSaurus]

What they heck did I just walk into lol. This feels like that third parties like Joker don't belong in Smash thread all over again.

On the topic of violence I'm genuinely surprised there is basically no support for a Rockstar games character. I guess it's just one of those things that's universally agreed will never happen.

CJ followed the train for so long, he ended up in Smash.

 

[Vrbtm]

How do you feel about characters like Samus or Mega Man? Or Mii Gunner for that matter.

IMO, they can get by because they use plasma weaponry and explosives, so it feels more like a cartoon than anything too realistic.

There's just this blunt realism to a gun that pushes them over the edge for me. I still can't even believe they let Joker have his.

 

[Deleted member]

I don't get this gun hate, anyone explain it to me? They're just guns on a fantasy cartoony game, I saw stuff like revolvers and rifles in Tom & Jerry and the Looney Toons.

 

[NickoRaptor]

Well, kumba-****ing-ya then. **** anyone who doesn't like absolutely everything.

I don't expect everyone to like absolutely everything, but it's narrow-minded and a little selfish to say something doesn't belong. If it's in the game, there's someone out there who's really excited for it and had been hoping for it's inclusion.

At the end of the day, it's Sakurai and Nintendo's decision as to what deserves to be in Smash. If you don't want something, that's your opinion and you're free to have it, but you can't say it doesn't deserve to be in the game.

 

[Deleted member]

...Anyway, ignoring this trivial argument about guns in Smash, I've really grown fond of the Google Theory.
At first, I was completely in the fake camp because Artorias is so random and not even the face of Dark Souls and, more damningly, Erdrick was absent despite having a mountain of evidence in his favor.
But now that the leak has had time to age and evolve, I'm starting to see that Artorias might have been a fluke due to Google's algorithm automatically associating Artorias with DLC, and given the fact that Nintendo are most likely aware of Erdrick being a near open secret, they likely took precautions to cover him up specifically.
This also lines up 90% with the supposedly debunked 5chan leak, which may be a case of Gematsu Syndrome (early info that included planned content that was scrapped). Nintendo may have cut female Joker and Jack Frost and decided on Banjo over Steve afterwards.

So you like it just because it happens to line up with a fake leak of the past and you use your own logic for it to mean one character you personally don't want isn't actually part of it while someone else who was part of that fake leak of the past is actually supposed to be there.

That makes absolutely zero sense.
Also petty because you specifically hated it over one character but changed your mind as soon as you could rationalize that character supposedly doesn't count.

 

[Wyoming]

Too many people have outdated ideologies that no longer matter.

In a way I think people are stuck in the Brawl era when it comes to what "belongs" or not in Smash. Or what should be or shouldn't be in the game.

 

[Vrbtm]

you can't say it doesn't deserve to be in the game.

I'm afraid that I can, and I'm afraid that I will, because this is America.

How can it be "selfish" of me to say when there are characters like Snake, who I love, but I'm still able to say he doesn't belong? That's a character that I like.

Too many people have outdated ideologies that no longer matter.

In a way I think people are stuck in the Brawl era when it comes to what "belongs" or not in Smash. Or what should be or shouldn't be in the game.

I was with you until that second line.

 

[Ben Holt]

So you like it just because it happens to line up with a fake leak of the past and you use your own logic for it to mean one character you personally don't want isn't actually part of it while someone else who was part of that fake leak of the past is actually supposed to be there.

That makes absolutely zero sense.
Also petty because you specifically hated it over one character but changed your mind as soon as you could rationalize that character supposedly doesn't count.

You misunderstood me.
I don't hate Artorias. I just don't see him as likely at all, because he isn't the face of Dark Souls. THAT is where my doubt lied, thought as I said, the bigger doubt was Erdrick being absent.

 

[Deleted member]

I'm afraid that I can, and I'm afraid that I will, because this is America.

How can it be "selfish" of me to say when there are characters like Snake, who I love, but I'm still able to say he doesn't belong? That's a character that I like.


I was with you until that second line.

Lmao

What characters deserve and who doesn't deserve to being in Smash then?

 

[Deleted member]

You misunderstood me.
I don't hate Artorias. I just don't see him as likely at all, because he isn't the face of Dark Souls. THAT is where my doubt lied, thought as I said, the bigger doubt was Erdrick being absent.

There is no actual "face" of Dark Souls though.
Closest ones would be the two most popular characters of the franchise; the ones who get the most merch.
Solaire and Artorias.

If Dark Souls got a character, it would be between those two. And I'd bet more on Artorias given Sakurai would go for the one more distinct.

 

[King Sonnn DeDeDoo]

Remember this is a character speculation thread and your personal feeling towards a character have no bearing on their chances.

 

[Troykv]

I don't get this gun hate, anyone explain it to me? They're just guns on a fantasy cartoony game, I saw stuff like revolvers and rifles in Tom & Jerry and the Looney Toons.

Nintendo had denied us guns (specially realistic ones) before... even with Snake; so it feels very alien.

 

[Idon]

There is no actual "face" of Dark Souls though.
Closest ones would be the two most popular characters of the franchise; the ones who get the most merch.
Solaire and Artorias.

If Dark Souls got a character, it would be between those two. And I'd bet more on Artorias given Sakurai would go for the one more distinct.

WRONG.

BONFIRE FOR SMASH.

 

[Deleted member]

Nintendo had denied us guns (specially realistic ones) before... even with Snake; so it feels very alien.

That's it? So people don't like it because Nintendo wouldn't allow them?

 

[Ben Holt]

There is no actual "face" of Dark Souls though.
Closest ones would be the two most popular characters of the franchise; the ones who get the most merch.
Solaire and Artorias.

I would argue that Solaire is the de facto mascot of Dark Souls.
You can rip on me for never playing the series, but I recognized Solaire (and before you say amiibo, I recognized him before the amiibo) before any other Dark Souls character.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Nintendo had denied us guns (specially realistic ones) before... even with Snake; so it feels very alien.

I think that was more on Sakurai. Besides, Snake's guns are still realistic. It's the bullets that would be fired that looks far more the issue than the gun design alone.

Then Bayonetta and Joker came along. It clearly changed about realistic guns. Realistic firearms in general were in Brawl with Snake(an rpg is still a firearm).

Realistic bullets we have yet to have, though. But I don't put any stock into this mattering. Though I will say we wouldn't see James Bond due to being a non-game character. The rest of that is not so important anymore. The times changed, after all.

 

[Troykv]

That's it? So people don't like it because Nintendo wouldn't allow them?

It's more like... many are so used to Nintendo don't having guns because of the K-A Friendly Image that having a real gun in Smash it's quite shocking and makes non-sense considering the E for Everyone Imagine of Nintendo.

Edit: And yeah, I know these are different times, I just try to put in other shoes.

 

[NickoRaptor]

I'm afraid that I can, and I'm afraid that I will, because this is America.

How can it be "selfish" of me to say when there are characters like Snake, who I love, but I'm still able to say he doesn't belong? That's a character that I like.

I only said that because it seems you're stating your opinion as though that's the way things should be instead of accepting things the way they are. Guns and violence/brutality are in Smash, and that's just how it is.

 

[Deleted member]

I would argue that Solaire is the de facto mascot of Dark Souls.
You can rip on me for never playing the series, but I recognized Solaire (and before you say amiibo, I recognized him before the amiibo) before any other Dark Souls character.

Artorias is second only to Solaire in iconic status for Dark Souls.
And style-wise, he would do more to interest Sakurai than Solaire.

 

[Deleted member]

It's more like... many are so used to Nintendo don't having guns because of the K-A Friendly Image that having a real gun in Smash it's quite shocking and makes non-sense considering the E for Everyone Imagine of Nintendo.

Edit: And yeah, I know these are different times, I just try to put in other shoes.

Still people should accept and move on.

 

[AEMehr]

The novelty about fighters like Snake, Bayonetta, and Joker (in my opinion) is that they actually do feel like they don't belong among the other characters.
It adds a lot to the crossover aspect of Smash. I can get not being a huge fan of it, but it gives the roster a lot more character to see a jarring disconnect between the tools used to fight.

While I don't really have much history with them, I would be really interested in seeing how Smash Brothers would incorporate characters and stages from games like Resident Evil, DOOM, Devil May Cry, among others.

 

[Wyoming]

I'm afraid that I can, and I'm afraid that I will, because this is America.

How can it be "selfish" of me to say when there are characters like Snake, who I love, but I'm still able to say he doesn't belong? That's a character that I like.


I was with you until that second line.

It's true though.

Pre-Brawl people scoffed at the idea of third parties. We got two the next game, then 5 in Smash 4, and we are currently at four for Ultimate.

People said that "pure" or "innocent" characters shouldn't fight - e.g: Villager and Isabelle because Sakurai once said so (despite the fact we had children and Pichu in prior games to their reveals.)

People took Sakurai's alleged statement of "no characters from fighting game series. Smash is for non-traditional fighting characters" as a statement that cannot be broken . We got Ryu and Ken.

People made up the rules that the character needed a rich history on Nintendo systems. That goalpost was moved to "series with Nintendo history" for a reason.

People said "realistic firearms can't be in Smash" because it may have been said by Sakurai once (not sure). Joker put an end to that,

Yet I will see all of these points to argue against a character to this day. Sakurai can change his mind and his creative input will evolve as well.

 

[Troykv]

Still people should accept and move on.

Agree, these are new times; and there isn't nothing wrong about these characters.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

One thing to remember that people seem to forget; Nobody has to "agree with the idea" or even "accept the idea as fine". That's unfair. If the user dislikes the idea, that's fine. How one presents their arguments can be problematic if they break the ToS here, though. So it's more on how you're posting than the fact you're not a fan of something.

As for 'moving on", that's more to avoid drama or spamming something over and over again that the Moderation see it as an issue(if it's clearly going to annoy others, that's a cue to stop. Depending the severity of this, the Moderation have a reason to act). They shouldn't move on for the sake of it.

Always keep in mind that while we want civil and substantial discussion, we don't want people to be unable to have any negative opinions too. Criticism is fine. Also, there's been some sniping towards other users here and there. Can we please stop that?

 

[Robdelia]

WRONG.

BONFIRE FOR SMASH.

Nah man, Chest Mimic for Smash

 

[Vrbtm]

What characters deserve and who doesn't deserve to being in Smash then?

In order to prevent a ****storm, I'm legally obligated to type the letters "I," "M," and "O" before posting this.

Spoiler

 

[3BitSaurus]

The novelty about fighters like Snake, Bayonetta, and Joker (in my opinion) is that they actually do feel like they don't belong among the other characters.
It adds a lot to the crossover aspect of Smash. I can get not being a huge fan of it, but it gives the roster a lot more character to see a jarring disconnect between the tools used to fight.

While I don't really have much history with them, I would be really interested in seeing how Smash Brothers would incorporate characters and stages from games like Resident Evil, DOOM, Devil May Cry, among others.

Kinda off-topic, but I really liked this sort of thing in MvC. Except it was the other way around. You had all of these extremely powerful characters, a few literal gods, and even the normal humans like Chris and Frank West still could fight enough to survive huge calamities... and then there was Phoenix Wright. I feel like a lot of people liked him in that game because of how little he seemed to fit among the rest of the cast. It was wacky and his playstyle was really unique.

Kinda hoping for him, in case we do end up with a third Capcom rep. I think MH or a RE rep could be nice, or maybe even a more niche pick like Amaterasu or Arthur. But being in UMvC3 sold the idea of Phoenix to me completely.

 

[Vrbtm]

Remember this is a character speculation thread and your personal feeling towards a character have no bearing on their chances.

Speculation is a personal feeling.

That's almost the entire point.

That's it? So people don't like it because Nintendo wouldn't allow them?

That is correct.

I only said that because it seems you're stating your opinion as though that's the way things should be instead of accepting things the way they are. Guns and violence/brutality are in Smash, and that's just how it is.

You're going to have to accept the fact that I refuse to accept that.

Sakurai can change his mind and his creative input will evolve as well.

And just because Sakurai does something doesn't mean it's right, or that I have to agree with it. I'm still just upset that Toon Link is in the game (and Wind Waker is my favorite Zelda).

 

[Deleted member]

In order to prevent a ****storm, I'm legally obligated to type the letters "I," "M," and "O" before posting this.

Spoiler

I was referring to newcomers not characters but I gotta disagree on some of them.

 

[Deleted member]

Speculation is a personal feeling.

That's almost the entire point.

That is correct.

You're going to have to accept the fact that I refuse to accept that.

And just because Sakurai does something doesn't mean it's right, or that I have to agree with it. I'm still just upset that Toon Link is in the game (and Wind Waker is my favorite Zelda).

Now Im curious, any reason for disliking Toon Link in Smash? It is quite a notorious Link after all.

 

[Robdelia]

The real newcomer we need is Beat, just to see how dumb/funny a rollerskating moveset would be in Smash.