Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[Gimmick-Hater]

MK in Smash would be the most hilarious and amazing thing in the world. I know it's pretty unlikely, but it at least has a decent shot. It'd destroy me.

Personally, though, while I love them both, I'm less a Scorpion and more a Sub-Zero kinda gal, haha.

Yeah. A lot of people really like Sub-Zero. I think Scorpion would have a higher chance due to him being more iconic, as well as Ed Boon's favorite character,

 

[Idon]

Yeah. A lot of people really like Sub-Zero. I think Scorpion would have a higher chance due to him being more iconic, as well as Ed Boon's favorite character,

The damn man's on the boxart of almost all the games of course he'd get top billing.

 

[Vrbtm]

Except Doomguy has spent two decades not being a character associated with fatalities.

Mod Edit: Image removed. It's still too inappropriate for Smashboards as is. You don't need an image to give a basic explanation that he does gory things.

Oh, of course not. Not at all.

 

[Guynamednelson]

Mod Edit: Image removed. It's still too inappropriate for Smashboards as is. You don't need an image to give a basic explanation that he does gory things.

Oh. Yeah. Sure. Of course.

He simply needs to be running and gunning, not goring people. Besides, Corrin's fsmash has shown that they can do chainsaws without gore.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

And even if it wasn't, that level of gore and violence just wouldn't translate to a Smash game at all. He'd have to be toned down even more than he was in that MK vs. DC game, which nobody liked. Same reason why Doomguy is a terrible idea.

Blood and gore is no issue when you already have these characters.

 

[Vrbtm]

He simply needs to be running and gunning, not goring people. Besides, Corrin's fsmash has shown that they can do chainsaws without gore.

Right, yeah, that's what Doom fans want. No gore whatsoever. Definitely not part of the whole appeal of the series.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Yeah. A lot of people really like Sub-Zero. I think Scorpion would have a higher chance due to him being more iconic, as well as Ed Boon's favorite character,

He's also the mascot of not just Mortal Kombat but Netherrealm Studios as well.

 

[Deleted member]

Mod Edit: Image removed. It's still too inappropriate for Smashboards as is. You don't need an image to give a basic explanation that he does gory things.

Oh, no. Not at all.

Unless you count Brutal Doom, OG Doom was relatively tame compared to MK aside from the satanic stuff.

 

[Idon]

Mod Edit: Image removed. It's still too inappropriate for Smashboards as is. You don't need an image to give a basic explanation that he does gory things.

Oh. Yeah. Sure. Of course.

Two decades of not being associated with gore.

As in Doomguy existed far before the gore associated with Doom 2016 and was known for running and gunning far more than executing demons.

 

[3BitSaurus]

MK in Smash would be the most hilarious and amazing thing in the world. I know it's pretty unlikely, but it at least has a decent shot. It'd destroy me.

Personally, though, while I love them both, I'm less a Scorpion and more a Sub-Zero kinda gal, haha.

And even if it wasn't, that level of gore and violence just wouldn't translate to a Smash game at all. He'd have to be toned down even more than he was in that MK vs. DC game, which nobody liked. Same reason why Doomguy is a terrible idea.

...you know, I'm getting flashbacks of the time I used to think wouldn't work in Smash, even if toned down. A friend of mine, who has Bayonetta and Smash as her favorite games, made me eat the crow on that one.

I do think Sub-Zero would work way better than Scorpion with the violence tone-downs. But even when it comes to Scorpion, at this point, I don't doubt characters based on "not fitting". Improbable compared to other characters? Maybe. Impossible? I don't think anyone but Sakurai has the final say on that.

As a sidenote, anoter character with ice properties would be a welcome addition. So few characters actually use it...

 

[cmbsfm]

Mod Edit: Image removed. It's still too inappropriate for Smashboards as is. You don't need an image to give a basic explanation that he does gory things.

Oh, of course not. Not at all.

Go play the original Doom, it’s far less violent than games like Bayonetta or MGSV

 

[Vrbtm]

Blood and gore is no issue when you already have these characters.

None of these characters, or their franchises, are known for having intense, gory violence.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

>Violence talk.

Why the **** is this still a thing when we have these characters?

 

[Vrbtm]

I'm getting flashbacks of the time I used to think wouldn't work in Smash, even if toned down.

I still don't think she works. I'd remove her instantly if I could.

>Violence talk.

Why the **** is this still a thing when we have these characters?

Because they're not that violent, nor are they from particularly violent games.

Even THEN, two wrongs don't make a right. Five wrongs wouldn't make a right either, assuming you were right about all five.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

None of these characters, or their franchises, are known for having intense, gory violence.

I recall Snake slitting throats right?

Or Raiden slicing and dicing enemies apart?

I recall Bayonetta is actually pretty bloody and gory too.

Ridley's skewer is also rather brutal without any blood shown so that's something.

 

[Idon]

None of these characters, or their franchises, are known for having intense, gory violence.

Bayonetta from its INCEPTION has Bayonetta trapping angels in giant BDSM contraptions, torturing them, and then executing them in a shower of blood that carpets both her, the torture device, and the surrounding area in blood.

And it got way more sexual AND violent in Bayonetta 2.

 

[Vrbtm]

Go play the original Doom, it’s far less violent than games like Bayonetta or MGSV

I've played it. It's a fun time.

Still think it's too intense for Smash.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Bayonetta from its INCEPTION has Bayonetta trapping angels in giant BDSM contraptions, torturing them, and then executing them in a shower of blood that carpets both her, the torture device, and the surrounding area in blood.

And it got way more sexual AND violent in Bayonetta 2.

This. This here.

So why again is violence talk still a debate may I ask?

 

[Vrbtm]

I recall Snake slitting throats right?

Or Raiden slicing and dicing enemies apart?

I recall Bayonetta is actually pretty bloody and gory too.

Ridley's skewer is also rather brutal without any blood shown so that's something.

I just disagree, with all of this. None of this is very intense, unlike Doom.

Bayonetta from its INCEPTION has Bayonetta trapping angels in giant BDSM contraptions, torturing them, and then executing them in a shower of blood that carpets both her, the torture device, and the surrounding area in blood.

And it got way more sexual AND violent in Bayonetta 2.

Right, and my argument is that Bayonetta should never have made it to Smash either, because two wrongs don't make a right.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Right, and my argument is that Bayonetta should never have made it to Smash either, because two wrongs don't make a right.

Well too bad she did the fact she made the cut makes your arugment moot and why Doom Slayer or Scorpion can work as well.

 

[TheCJBrine]

If Bayonetta got in, I see no reason Doomguy couldn't get in.

The only thing that seems unlikely regarding this violence topic is a MK character, unless they're allowed in Smash due to being toned down, but it would be kinda weird since MK is banned in Japan.

 

[Vrbtm]

This. This here.

So why again is violence talk still a debate may I ask?

Because I still find Doomguy to be worse, and on a completely different level.

The violence is Bayonetta is over the top to the point where it's ridiculous and hard to take seriously.

Doom's violence is over the top in a different way. One that ill befits Smash, in my opinion.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

If Bayonetta got in, I see no reason Doomguy couldn't get in.

Or Scorpion.

 

[osby]

I still don't think she works. I'd remove her instantly if I could.

Keyword being "I".

You are not Sakurai, so unless it's a legitimate argument, what you think is irrelevant.

 

[Vrbtm]

Well too bad she did the fact she made the cut makes your arugment moot and why Doom Slayer or Scorpion can work as well.

Except it still stands because Doom's violence is simply more intense.

 

[Gimmick-Hater]

Regarding the gore factor of Mortal Kombat, I don't see the issue with it being toned down. People don't mind Mortal Kombat being toned down. Just look at the Mortal Kombat movie, which is widely loved by MK & Non-MK fans alike. That movie was PG-13, and had basically 0 gore.

The issue with MK vs. DC was that it was just a bad game, and they tried to include fatalites in a T-rated game when they didn't have to. If you want to look at MK characters being toned down the right way, just look at Injustice. Scorpion, Raiden, and Sub-Zero were heavily toned down, and were still amazing (Plus widely loved by MK fans).

You can still capture the essence of MK by adding some of the games sillier aspects to the game. Like, were talking about toning down the characters... Imagine if Sub-Zero, or Scorpion made it into Smash and one of their taunts was a freindship, a goofy animality like Scorpion turning into a penguin, or even characters landing critical hits that make the toasty guy pop out.

Also, you can't really talk violence when you have characters like Bayonetta & Simon Belmont. Heck, they already censored some of the Castlevania stuff in the game (like the Mask that cries purple goo instead of blood). Plus, in the Castlevania games you fight a boss made from the corpses of dead humans. If that isn't violent, then I don't know what is.

 

[Vrbtm]

Keyword being "I".

You are not Sakurai, so unless it's a legitimate argument, what you think is irrelevant.

But we're having a discussion, Mr. Moderator. That means what I think IS relevant, actually.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

As much as I hated the idea of MK characters in Injustice since they just wasted slots for other DC characters (Which there were a ton they could had chose from and if people wanted to play as Scorpion, Sub-Zero or Raiden they could had just played the MK games plus MK should never dip below an M rating). Injustice shows Scorpion can easily work in Smash.

 

[Ovaltine]

Right, and my argument is that Bayonetta should never have made it to Smash either, because two wrongs don't make a right.

That is entirely subjective, though, and your evidence as to why Doomguy is a bad idea is purely anecdotal (the fact that fans wouldn't like him in Smash because he'd be toned down). I could respond by saying that I'm a big fan of OG Doom (which I am) and I'd love to see how Sakurai would handle Doomguy (which I would), and that I've seen a lot of people who think likewise. I'm speaking only from my experience and not concrete fact here. I don't think his addition would be nearly as poorly-received as you think, but my evidence on the matter doesn't hold any water.

Whether Bayonetta should have gotten into Smash, too, is also a matter of opinion. Just because you think it's an awful idea doesn't mean it is objectively a bad idea. If Nintendo and Sakurai think it's a good idea, that's all that matters in the end. Bayonetta is in, and if they planned Doomguy, they'll put him in, too. It's just how it is. (For the record, I'm a fan of Bayonetta myself, and I was also ecstatic to see her make it, toned down or not.)

 

[Deleted member]

But we're having a discussion, Mr. Moderator. That means what I think IS relevant, actually.

Problem is that this discussion is just a back and forth with people giving you arguments as to why Doomguy is possible in Smash, but you classify stuff like Bayo as a mistake.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

The issue with MK vs. DC was that it was just a bad game, and they tried to include fatalites in a T-rated game when they didn't have to. If you want to look at MK characters being toned down the right way, just look at Injustice. Scorpion, Raiden, and Sub-Zero were heavily toned down, and were still amazing (Plus widely loved by MK fans).

**** that game. That dreaded abomination never should had seen the bright of day to begin with and why Ed Boon thought that was a good idea I'll never know. Of all crossovers they went with DC when they easily could had gone with something like Killer Instinct, Dead or Alive or Image Comics which would had been much more fitting and kept its M rating. Mortal Kombat should never go dip below an M rating.

Like to this day I still wonder how the **** is Kano's rolling, jump and drop fatality is suppose to kill someone?

 

[osby]

But we're having a discussion, Mr. Moderator. That means what I think IS relevant, actually.

Not really.

You are free to express what you think, but it doesn't have any effect on any character's chances.

A character from a game that includes violence and gore is in the game. Regardless of what you feel about this, another character from such a game can make it into Smash.

 

[Vrbtm]

Just look at the Mortal Kombat movie, which is widely loved by MK & Non-MK fans alike.

Maybe ironically? No one actually thinks it's a good movie. People like it for the cheese/schlock factor, not because it's a great Mortal Kombat movie.

Also, you can't really talk violence when you have characters like Bayonetta & Simon Belmont. Heck, they already censored some of the Castlevania stuff in the game (like the Mask that cries purple goo instead of blood). Plus, in the Castlevania games you fight a boss made from the corpses of dead humans. If that isn't violent, then I don't know what is.

Simon Belmont is no more violent than Link in his own games. Don't be ridiculous.

That is entirely subjective
[...]
Just because you think it's an awful idea doesn't mean it is objectively a bad idea.

You don't think it's extremely insulting to my intelligence when you say things like this?

It's almost like the entire point of the thread is to post our subjective opinions, or something.

 

[3BitSaurus]

You can still capture the essence of MK by adding some of the games sillier aspects to the game. Like, were talking about toning down the characters... Imagine if Sub-Zero, or Scorpion made it into Smash and one of their taunts was a freindship, a goofy animality like Scorpion turning into a penguin, or even characters landing critical hits that make the toasty guy pop out.

God, imagine if it was a Final Smash... like, the Final Smash "paralyzes" the enemy and you can attack them (like the beginning part of Bayo's, but instead of slowing down time it just keeps you in place). If you hit them, there's a fatality-esque move. If you don't, Sub-Zero/Scorpion performs a Friendship instead.

That would really crack me up.

 

[Vrbtm]

You are free to express what you think, but it doesn't have any effect on any character's chances.

Which is why I wasn't talking about any character's chances with that particular person. If you followed the context of that line of conversation, you'd have noticed that.

Doomguy admittedly does have a non-insignificant chance to become playable.

I just think he'd be really ****ing stupid, and has no place in Smash. Along with every other M-rated character we have, just to set the precedent.

 

[Ovaltine]

Yeah, almost like it's the entire point of the thread or something.
You don't think it's extremely insulting to my intelligence when you say things like this?

I'm in no way attempting to make any jabs at your intelligence, and I am speaking from a solely logical standpoint with my observations. There's no need to make this so personal.

 

[Vrbtm]

I'm in no way attempting to make any jabs at your intelligence, and I am speaking from a solely logical standpoint with my observations. There's no need to make this so personal.

I just think it's a waste of time to point out that someone is making a subjective statement, as if they don't know. It adds nothing.

Here, you can make a better contribution by answering me this: Why do you disagree with my subjective opinion about violent characters in Smash?

 

[Gimmick-Hater]

Maybe ironically? No one actually thinks it's a good movie. People like it for the cheese/schlock factor, not because it's a great Mortal Kombat movie.

I mean, you aren't wrong, but that's kind of my point. MK doesn't have to be just blood, and gore. You can easily capture the cheese factor of the series. This also doesn't address my point regarding Injustice. If MK fans & the creators of MK don't mind MK characters being toned down for that, then what makes you think they'll have a problem with them being toned down for Smash?

Link doesn't fight a cursed mask that oozes blood from it's eye sockets, or a giant mass of dead human corpses. Also, if were going by characters that aren't as violent as their OG counter-parts, Bayonetta kind of destroys your argument. I mean, I don't know about you, but I like the part in Smash where Bayonetta shoves Mario into a guillotine and chops his head off...

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Link doesn't fight a cursed mask that oozes blood from it's eye sockets, or a giant mass of dead human corpses. Also, if were going by characters that aren't as violent as their OG counter-parts, Bayonetta kind of destroys your argument. I mean, I don't know about you, but I like the part in Smash where Bayonetta shoves Mario into a guillotine and chops his head off...

Oh snap! Lets see that get countered.

 

[osby]

It's almost like the entire point of the thread is to post our subjective opinions, or something.

I think you're mistaken. This thread's purpose is speculating about newcomers, not character bashing without any real argument.