Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

GoodGrief741

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Except it would be a bad move to announce Smash Ultimate DLC at their conference unless they plan to put Ultimate on the XBox One itself. It would give their competition free advertising otherwise.
As I was saying, Microsoft doesn't mind giving the competition free advertising. Hell, they might not even see Nintendo as competition anymore.
 

RileyXY1

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As I was saying, Microsoft doesn't mind giving the competition free advertising. Hell, they might not even see Nintendo as competition anymore.
It will also look bad to Microsoft diehards who don't care about Nintendo. Microsoft's conference is meant to show off new content for the XBox One, and Smash Ultimate DLC will not be revealed there unless they put Ultimate on the XBox.
 
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Yeah. Despite nothing being 100% certain to the public, I'm pretty sure Square wasn't willing to cooperate much. Then again, I know some of FF's music and assets are in copyright hell, but I'm not well-versed on the subject there. Square being difficult as hell makes sense in my mind, though, at least with FF. Even with Geno and Mallow, all we got were their two PNGs. We don't even have any SMRPG music despite Yoko Shimomura being on the team. Finicky buggers, I tells ya.
Well at least SMRPG got non-fighter spirits. It's kinda weird not even the characters within the Final Fantasy stage background didn't get spirits, though maybe their appearance in it wasn't technically static artwork they could use for those spirits?
 

Robdelia

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Yeah. Despite nothing being 100% certain to the public, I'm pretty sure Square wasn't willing to cooperate much. Then again, I know some of FF's music and assets are in copyright hell, but I'm not well-versed on the subject there. Square being difficult as hell makes sense in my mind, though, at least with FF. Even with Geno and Mallow, all we got were their two PNGs. We don't even have any SMRPG music despite Yoko Shimomura being on the team. Finicky buggers, I tells ya.
FF music is most definitely in copyright hell and the blame is 100% on Square-Enix. FF14 wanted a rhythm minigame that used older music and then Square stated it would cost a pretty penny, despite the fact that Nobuo Uematsu is on the FF14 sound team and composed those old songs. I don't know how the assets work but considering Nomura seems to enjoy doing guest work (Xenoblade 2, the new FF14 expansion, etc) I don't think he'd be the reason we have no FF spirits. Hell, we didn't even get spirits of the summons in Midgar, which are already beautiful png files.
 
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FF music is most definitely in copyright hell and the blame is 100% on Square-Enix. FF14 wanted a rhythm minigame that used older music and then Square stated it would cost a pretty penny, despite the fact that Nobuo Uematsu is on the FF14 sound team and composed those old songs. I don't know how the assets work but considering Nomura seems to enjoy doing guest work (Xenoblade 2, the new FF14 expansion, etc) I don't think he'd be the reason we have no FF spirits. Hell, we didn't even get spirits of the summons in Midgar, which are already beautiful png files.
Are the Midgar summons technically animated a little and thus, don't fall under a perhaps "existing art" need spirits may have?
 
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I don't think we have to worry whether or not Microsoft would announce their character(s) in Smash when Nintendo would likely just do it for them.

Yes but Sakurai likes to talk to the creators on who to represent the character ingame.
I wonder if he did this for Shovel Knight. He's a simple Assist Trophy, but Sakurai values Assist Trophies, and it's still another person's character.

As I said, he could get Nintendo to help him or he'll invite the character's creators to come to him, if he even has a problem in the first place.
 
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GoodGrief741

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It will also look bad to Microsoft diehards who don't care about Nintendo. Microsoft's conference is meant to show off new content for the XBox One, and Smash Ultimate DLC will not be revealed there unless they put Ultimate on the XBox.
It's really annoying to keep having to repeat myself. Again, Microsoft has already shown off things for other, non-Xbox consoles on their E3 stage and their fans didn't give a damn.

And you keep claiming 'Smash Ultimate DLC wouldn't be revealed on a Microsoft stage' without any basis.
 
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I don't think we have to worry whether or not Microsoft would announce their character(s) in Smash when Nintendo would likely just do it for them.



I wonder if he did this for Shovel Knight. He's a simple Assist Trophy, but Sakurai values Assist Trophies, and it's still another person's character.
Yeah, he would've had to. That is such a good point that no one (myself included) ever brings up!
 
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Flyboy

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Microsoft and Nintendo are working together to share an audience. People often own both a Switch and a home console nowadays. Xbox is working hard to be seen as gamer-focused. Announcing something like GamePass on Switch plus a Microsoft character in Smash would be great PR, great for gamers, and give Microsoft diehards a bigger reason to look into Nintendo and vice-versa.

It's a win-win. The days of true "console wars" are coming to an end.
 

Ovaltine

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Microsoft and Nintendo are working together to share an audience. People often own both a Switch and a home console nowadays. Xbox is working hard to be seen as gamer-focused. Announcing something like GamePass on Switch plus a Microsoft character in Smash would be great PR, great for gamers, and give Microsoft diehards a bigger reason to look into Nintendo and vice-versa.

It's a win-win. The days of true "console wars" are coming to an end.
To think Nintendo's come this far from being the draconian company it was in the 90's...

Sniff... I'm so proud.
 

Chinderblock

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I don't trust any rumor that depends on a search engine, especially one with an algorithm that changes whenever you search up something.
The searches only work correctly(and not always) on 100% clean searches(that means removing all your website data/cookies/etc.) So that's not an actual issue because if you search something else, then you cannot apply the theory.

I don't trust it regardless, but that's because there's no reason the other ads would be out by now outside of Joker's. It's possible a Nintendo employee screwed up, but it's also a little too weird it only works on clean searches. It's probably just a faker making ads, which puts them in a ton of criminal trouble(false advertising, literally impersonating multiple companies, and possibly could make it so people don't bother with the Fighter's Pass due to being disappointed when it's not real. Though the last one isn't going to be a huge factor, it's enough for Nintendo to also take action. That's a grave misuse of their overall IP(the Fighter's Pass itself), as well as misuse of multiple companies' IPs).

To say the least, if it's real, at worst an employee just screwed up. That was it. They could get canned or disciplined. If it's a faker, they're in a ton of legal trouble. It's a pretty huge criminal act what they're doing, after all.

FF music is most definitely in copyright hell and the blame is 100% on Square-Enix. FF14 wanted a rhythm minigame that used older music and then Square stated it would cost a pretty penny, despite the fact that Nobuo Uematsu is on the FF14 sound team and composed those old songs. I don't know how the assets work but considering Nomura seems to enjoy doing guest work (Xenoblade 2, the new FF14 expansion, etc) I don't think he'd be the reason we have no FF spirits. Hell, we didn't even get spirits of the summons in Midgar, which are already beautiful png files.
Nobuo owns the music, not Square-Enix. If he says no, then they can't do anything. They do not get instant access to it just because he's on the sound team. That's not how it works. They have to license his music to use it in their games. So yeah, it's not really their fault unless you count them not willing to spend a severe amount of cash on music because one person overcharges. But that's really more on Nobuo for not willing to compromise as is. This is the same reason we have few FF songs. He charges an arm and a leg for it. And he directly composes music for Smash games itself, meaning that he doesn't heavily compromise whether he's on the team or not.

Don't get me wrong, I do like the fact that they give more credit and money to the people who created the product directly, but it's taken a little far in some cases. Albeit, it costs a lot of time and money to make a lot of these products, so it's kind of hard to distribute money among employees fairly too. It sucks for those who want SE content, but the employees are often getting what they actually should be paid for their labor.
 
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IsmaR

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There's a difference between endorsing your competitors via things like supporting crossplay/giving "our friends at ____" statements and flat out giving E3 showfloor time just to say "Go give others money instead of us."

I'm not saying things of that nature wouldn't be cool, but holding your breath for/banking on it happening is setting yourself up for disappointment. Smash is a big deal, but it's not nearly as important as we (an obviously biased Nintendo centric speculation forum) make it out to be sometimes. Twisting things to seem more likely because it's what you personally would want isn't going to win over any investors/potential consumers/people actually watching E3 because it's E3.
 
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The searches only work correctly(and not always) on 100% clean searches(that means removing all your website data/cookies/etc.) So that's not an actual issue because if you search something else, then you cannot apply the theory.

I don't trust it regardless, but that's because there's no reason the other ads would be out by now outside of Joker's. It's possible a Nintendo employee screwed up, but it's also a little too weird it only works on clean searches. It's probably just a faker making ads, which puts them in a ton of criminal trouble(false advertising, literally impersonating multiple companies, and possibly could make it so people don't bother with the Fighter's Pass due to being disappointed when it's not real. Though the last one isn't going to be a huge factor, it's enough for Nintendo to also take action. That's a grave misuse of their overall IP(the Fighter's Pass itself), as well as misuse of multiple companies' IPs).

To say the least, if it's real, at worst an employee just screwed up. That was it. They could get canned or disciplined. If it's a faker, they're in a ton of legal trouble. It's a pretty huge criminal act what they're doing, after all.
Fascinating. Imagine just trying to mess with people speculating about characters in a fighting game and getting extremely legally persecuted for for it :D Though even so, I wonder if that person hypothetically could hide behind Internet anonymity successfully or not (not unlike whoever made the Grinch leak I suppose...)
 

Chinderblock

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Fascinating. Imagine just trying to mess with people speculating about characters in a fighting game and getting extremely legally persecuted for for it :D Though even so, I wonder if that person hypothetically could hide behind Internet anonymity successfully or not (not unlike whoever made the Grinch leak I suppose...)
The user can't. Basically, if they're behind the ads, they had to pay for them. They're literally within the system as a customer. That means they'll be found out.

Of course, persecuting the guy is a bit over the top anyway. They pulled a **** move. Being disappointed in them is fine. But really, what's more important is to let the law handle the full situation instead(they're probably getting their pants sued off, which is also what I mean by letting the law handle it). Last thing we need is people going after another user of a troll move. That doesn't help anything and besides making the fanbase look bad, that can be illegal too as depending how people act, it'd be considered harassment. It doesn't matter what the guy did. The last thing to do is persecute them. It's not even a smart option at all. There's tons of ways to handle it in a reasonable manner. It can be as simple as letting the law take care of it, being banned from buying adds(as well as sued, of course), and other simplistic handlings.

I hope I was able to make that point clear, though. Or another way to put it is mob mentality is one of the worst things that can be done to anyone. It never ever helps and only creates further issues and disarray. The less drama the better. For instance, considering what he did, this could affect where he could get hired, since he effectively is false advertising and impersonating companies. That alone is sufficient as an action to deal with them. Karma in itself is actually a pretty great thing in these cases. They get their dues, and it's all done in a very moral and reasonable way.
 
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I don't trust it regardless, but that's because there's no reason the other ads would be out by now outside of Joker's. It's possible a Nintendo employee screwed up, but it's also a little too weird it only works on clean searches. It's probably just a faker making ads, which puts them in a ton of criminal trouble(false advertising, literally impersonating multiple companies, and possibly could make it so people don't bother with the Fighter's Pass due to being disappointed when it's not real. Though the last one isn't going to be a huge factor, it's enough for Nintendo to also take action. That's a grave misuse of their overall IP(the Fighter's Pass itself), as well as misuse of multiple companies' IPs).

To say the least, if it's real, at worst an employee just screwed up. That was it. They could get canned or disciplined. If it's faker, they're in legal trouble. It's a pretty huge criminal act what they're doing, after all.
I could see this being real or being fake. I don't think a Nintendo employee screwing up is out of the realm of possibility for sure. I think this E3 will make or break this leak.
 

Chinderblock

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I could see this being real or being fake. I don't think a Nintendo employee screwing up is out of the realm of possibility for sure. I think this E3 will make or break this leak.
It could be broken even sooner than that. For instance, Mario Maker 2 could show off new amiibo costumes, including new characters in Smash. Sure, it wouldn't directly confirm or disconfirm it either, but we might get some partial information by design. They could even show off new amiibo or use it as an excuse to announce other Smash amiibo. Who knows what could happen.
 
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It could be broken even sooner than that. For instance, Mario Maker 2 could show off new amiibo costumes, including new characters in Smash. Sure, it wouldn't directly confirm or disconfirm it either, but we might get some partial information by design. They could even show off new amiibo or use it as an excuse to announce other Smash amiibo. Who knows what could happen.
....they wouldn't show costumes for the unreleased DLC.

Hell, I'd be surprised if Joker got one.
 

Chinderblock

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....they wouldn't show costumes for the unreleased DLC.

Hell, I'd be surprised if Joker got one.
They could still show the costumes, but it wouldn't be known they're DLC if they don't even announce amiibo for it. A Joker one wouldn't even be that surprising, but that's because you don't require an amiibo to get the costume. Now if it was an amiibo-only bonus, then they wouldn't show off his costume(but it wasn't last time and I doubt it will be this time. But who knows).

Though yeah, I admit it's extremely unrealistic. Fair point.
 

GoodGrief741

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There's a difference between endorsing your competitors via things like supporting crossplay/giving "our friends at ____" statements and flat out giving E3 showfloor time just to say "Go give others money instead of us."

I'm not saying things of that nature wouldn't be cool, but holding your breath for/banking on it happening is setting yourself up for disappointment. Smash is a big deal, but it's not nearly as important as we (an obviously biased Nintendo centric speculation forum) make it out to be sometimes. Twisting things to seem more likely because it's what you personally would want isn't going to win over any investors/potential consumers/people actually watching E3 because it's E3.
How is the best selling game in the best selling fighting game franchise not a big deal?
 
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I could see this being real or being fake. I don't think a Nintendo employee screwing up is out of the realm of possibility for sure. I think this E3 will make or break this leak.
Yeah, if I learned anything, elaborate hoaxes and massive **** ups are equally likely for these kinds of things
 

Chinderblock

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And you have yet to explain why Microsoft wouldn't do that.
It's not their game to announce things for. It's not on their console nor their IP's(and despite relating to their IP's, it's not them using the IP, it would be Nintendo and Sakurai who is using the IP specifically).

It ain't going to happen. Only Nintendo will, and there has never once been a case where they went to a competitor's event to directly announce something of theirs. It's beyond unrealistic.

Never mind how much it would completely be bad for Microsoft alone, as all their announcements will be severely overshadowed by another competitor as their own literal event. Microsoft nor Nintendo would ever agree to that.

The only thing Microsoft will ever announce related to Nintendo is something like Rare Replay or an IP of theirs on a Nintendo system. I.E. A new Banjo-Kazooie. And they'd far more likely not announce it for the Switch, but just for their own system. Nintendo would announce it otherwise. Rare Replay is a different story because that's actual cross-promotion. Smash is nowhere near cross-promotion. It's a straight Nintendo product. Only Nintendo will announce anything for it. There's a reason that Minecon literally replied to the idea of Steve in Smash as "It's not ours to announce." And they're right. They can't announce it. It's not their product being announced. It's still not a case of cross-play, either.

Besides that, it should be noted that when a Microsoft IP was put onto the Switch, Nintendo was the one to announce it too. If somehow a Nintendo product was put on the Xbox One, then Microsoft could announce that, since it's their system. The announcements are tied generally to the systems, not just the IP holder.
 
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Chinderblock Chinderblock is right, whether or not a Microsoft character is in Smash, its not their place to reveal that, but more on Sakurai and Nintendo. They might give a nudge in a Tweet to look out for whatever Nintendo is announcing like some dev's did in the past. But I wouldn't expect them to reveal anything Smash related on their own conference where most of the focus is on them and what they have to offer for their console.

Plus I think Sakurai himself prefers to have full control over these type of things and reveal characters on his own schedules rather than letting others do it for him. At least for the most part.
 

GoodGrief741

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It's not their game to announce things for. It's not on their console nor their IP's(and despite relating to their IP's, it's not them using the IP, it would be Nintendo and Sakurai who is using the IP specifically).
Weird, because Microsoft has announced games that aren't theirs, and games on consoles that aren't theirs, on their E3. But apparently 'it's not their game'.

Plus if Microsoft gets a character in Smash then yes, it is their IP they're promoting.
Only Nintendo will, and there has never once been a case where they went to a competitor's event to directly announce something of theirs.
Is Microsoft a competitor though? In the hypothetical case that they get a Microsoft character in Smash, it's safe to say they wouldn't see each other as competition.
The only thing Microsoft will ever announce related to Nintendo is something like Rare Replay or an IP of theirs on a Nintendo system. I.E. A new Banjo-Kazooie.
So first they can't announce stuff for Nintendo's platform but now they can?

A character in Smash is an IP of theirs on a Nintendo system.
Nintendo would announce it otherwise.
So now Nintendo can announce Microsoft games on their platform? It's almost like you're making rules up so that everything but one specific tiny thing is possible.
Smash is nowhere near cross-promotion.
Oh c'mon really? Smash isn't cross-promotion?
 

Zeke The Zekenator

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Weird, because Microsoft has announced games that aren't theirs, and games on consoles that aren't theirs, on their E3. But apparently 'it's not their game'.

Plus if Microsoft gets a character in Smash then yes, it is their IP they're promoting.

Is Microsoft a competitor though? In the hypothetical case that they get a Microsoft character in Smash, it's safe to say they wouldn't see each other as competition.

So first they can't announce stuff for Nintendo's platform but now they can?

A character in Smash is an IP of theirs on a Nintendo system.

So now Nintendo can announce Microsoft games on their platform? It's almost like you're making rules up so that everything but one specific tiny thing is possible.

Oh c'mon really? Smash isn't cross-promotion?
Care to give examples of those games? I can only recall they announced multiplats or PC games that they also own due to Windows.

MS announcing a dlc, for a game they dont have on another console just looks bad. Plus the most interested people in the DLC are people watching the Nintendo Direct.
 

Chinderblock

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I lost a lot along the way and it'd be better if I started again. I made some errors, as I forgot Microsoft doesn't announce their own games on other playable consoles(Steam is more treated as a PC thing as is, which is why it doesn't entirely count. That or you could call it an exception to the rule).

What I remember about cross-promotion is a game has to be on both systems to count. So I'll just say I honestly was too inconsistent earlier and it's better if somebody more knowledgeable explains it. I probably said something incorrect in this case as is.

Apologies for the confusion here.
 

GoodGrief741

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Care to give examples of those games? I can only recall they announced multiplats or PC games that they also own due to Windows.

MS announcing a dlc, for a game they dont have on another console just looks bad. Plus the most interested people in the DLC are people watching the Nintendo Direct.
I was referring to multiplats. As a console maker, yes, I don't think they've ever announced a game that wasn't on their platform. But they have showcased games that are not their IP nor are exclusives to their consoles (last E3 alone they showed off Devil May Cry 5 and Tales of Vesperia, off the top of my head).

What I mean is that Microsoft constantly shows off the fact that Minecraft is on every platform, even the competition's, and that's not to be ignored. If they get DLC for Smash, it's a win-win situation no matter what. If it's revealed at Microsoft's conference, Nintendo gets exposure to Xbox fans, while Microsoft gets good PR and sells their own IP and the DLC they're making money from. If it's revealed at Nintendo's conference, Nintendo advertises its console, game and DLC, while Microsoft gets the exposure and good PR.

I'm not saying which one's the likeliest, but acting like either is impossible seems very extreme to me. If a Microsoft character gets into Smash, all bets are off already.
 

Gimmick-Hater

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I'd like to see Scorpion added to Smash. Some part of me feels like he has a pretty good chance. The MK series is pretty big, and the most recent game was released on the Switch. Also, Nintendo & Warner Brothers (the company that owns MK) seem to be pretty buddy-buddy with eachother (seeing how WB produce the DT movie & has made Nitendo exclusive games in the past).
 
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I'd like to see Scorpion added to Smash. Some part of me feels like he has a pretty good chance. The MK series is pretty big, and the most recent game was released on the Switch. Also, Nintendo & Warner Brothers (the company that owns MK) seem to be pretty buddy-buddy with eachother (seeing how WB produce the DT movie & has made Nitendo exclusive games in the past).
I want to see Scorpian as well, but Mortal Kombat being banned in Japan harms his chances quite a lot.
 
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I'd like to see Scorpion added to Smash. Some part of me feels like he has a pretty good chance. The MK series is pretty big, and the most recent game was released on the Switch. Also, Nintendo & Warner Brothers (the company that owns MK) seem to be pretty buddy-buddy with eachother (seeing how WB produce the DT movie & has made Nitendo exclusive games in the past).
Isn't Mortal Kombat banned in Japan? I can see that being a major hurdle

Edit: dammit, ninja'd
 
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I have just one wish for E3, to start the presentation with the reveal of a character that no one expects or talks about, to yet again, change everyone's perspective about the DLC.
I mean, any character but the ones that have been "leaked" to this point.
I would absolutely lose it if the E3 reveal trailer was teasing super hard for a Microsoft rep, only for it to actually be the block from Geometry Dash. That'd be some Monkey's Paw **** right there (though Geometry Dash is a fine game).
 

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Everyone's arguing over my dumb Microsoft E3 thing meanwhile I'm just sitting here like "ah yep those are some good points probably won't happen then"
It's how discussion works. Plus, sometimes people make bad points, realize it, and admit they've made an error.

It's rather worth joining in alone instead of being off to the side. You can learn a lot alone. That said, it's not like we couldn't potentially get a DLC announcement at something like Minecon... it'd be just a Nintendo employee doing it instead. Microsoft(nor Mojang, etc.) wouldn't be the ones making the announcement. I doubt we'd see anything at Minecon, but Nintendo can choose when and where to announce their stuff(to a degree. They still have to talk to any company about using its location to introduce/announce their product, of course). It's just they usually make their own Directs or do it at something like E3.

At EVO, they set up shop so they could announce a Smash direct alone. Though with that in mind, I'm not really sure about the Minecon thing much at all anymore. There's be no real reason to announce a direct at Minecon. And they never used another company's location to announce a game/part of their own game from what I remember.
 

Robdelia

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It's how discussion works. Plus, sometimes people make bad points, realize it, and admit they've made an error.

It's rather worth joining in alone instead of being off to the side. You can learn a lot alone. That said, it's not like we couldn't potentially get a DLC announcement at something like Minecon... it'd be just a Nintendo employee doing it instead. Microsoft(nor Mojang, etc.) wouldn't be the ones making the announcement. I doubt we'd see anything at Minecon, but Nintendo can choose when and where to announce their stuff(to a degree. They still have to talk to any company about using its location to introduce/announce their product, of course). It's just they usually make their own Directs or do it at something like E3.

At EVO, they set up shop so they could announce a Smash direct alone. Though with that in mind, I'm not really sure about the Minecon thing much at all anymore. There's be no real reason to announce a direct at Minecon. And they never used another company's location to announce a game/part of their own game from what I remember.
Watch as the microsoft E3 conference ends with them lowering another car onto the stage, except Sakurai gets out of the car and puts a smash invitation on the hood.
"That's right. Forza Car will be joining the battle in Super Smash Bros Ultimate."
That's why Brave's files show them drifting. It's because they're an actual car. How could we have been so blind?
 
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At EVO, they set up shop so they could announce a Smash direct alone. Though with that in mind, I'm not really sure about the Minecon thing much at all anymore. There's be no real reason to announce a direct at Minecon. And they never used another company's location to announce a game/part of their own game from what I remember.
True. Besides, a Direct announced at EVO could mean a lot of things - it's a "neutral" event, not really one belonging to a game from another company, and Smash is a fighting game in the first place. Just like Joker's announcement, as TGA doesn't serve one company specifically, so announcing a character for a fighting game (even if it wasn't Smash) isn't really out of place, but at the same time it keeps the element of surprise. A Direct announced at Minecon, however, would blatantly point to content relating to a specific series. That's my opinion, at least.
 
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Yeah I don't expect characters to be announced by anyone other than Nintendo in their own videos or events.

That doesn't mean Steve couldn't be announced on or around Minecraft's birthday, but if he does, then he'd be announced by Nintendo while Mojang shares the news or something (also Minecon doesn't happen again until later this year I believe; it seems September is its usual month now).
 
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Megadoomer

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Yeah I don't expect characters to be announced by anyone other than Nintendo in their own videos or events.

That doesn't mean Steve couldn't be announced on or around Minecraft's birthday, but if he does, then he'd be announced by Nintendo while Mojang shares the news or something (also Minecon doesn't happen again until later this year I believe; it seems September is its usual month now).
There might be some exceptions, though - we did get Joker being announced at the Game Awards, which was unprecedented. Seeing as we got a Smash Direct announced at last year's EVO, I could see an announcement of a Smash Direct (or a character announcement) happening this year.
 
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