Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[3BitSaurus]

My best bet is something I'm convinced is not happening, a second pass, and there's no guarantee she'll be in it as well.

Just adding my two cents: what makes this worse is the nature of the Fighter's Pass. Back in base roster speculation, there was already some backlash over characters like Steve and Sans, but it wasn't nearly as bad as it is now. Because now we know the exact number of characters in this pass, and there is no guarantee at all that there will be more. Back in Smash 4 DLC, they never gave us a number, and even then there were the returning veterans. Plus the trophy/fighter link didn't seem as complex as the one people perceive between spirits/fighters. So that kept people guessing without the feeling of desperation over "competition". Especially those fanbases that have been giving support since Melee and Brawl.

 

[Among Waddle Dees]

All this talk of the Google leak and the Erdrick leaks and whether Microsoft "deserves" something... this third-party smorgasbord is making me sick. The Fighters Pass is looking more and more grim for represented franchises.
Unfortunately, I remember the Smash 4 situation becoming just as increasingly dire as the months went on, and with that storm we only ended up with three guest characters IN ADDITION to the three we already had, and another addition to the only series that didn't need another. At least then they tried to care, even if it was falsified to a degree.
I am not saying third-parties are a bad thing, but I do kind of think we've hit the preferred threshold of how many should be included long ago. Although because Joker screwed the tide of the DLC over, I also don't think it would be wise for him to be the only third-party, so... one more, perhaps? Another popular cartoony platform mascot? I don't know, and to be honest don't really care.
I wish I had a reason to be excited about all this.

 

[Izanagi97]

Honestly, the only reasons I'm not interested in either Steve or Erdrick has nothing to do with how I feel about games since I never played Minecraft or Dragon Quest (but I do know of them via watching YouTube videos)

• Steve, I feel, would be very difficult to get to work without veering into the uncanny valley (and isn't 2D, unlike Game & Watch). Minecraft, to me, seems like it would be better represented through other means rather than a character since, IIRC, Minecraft is less about the characters and more about the sandbox (or in other words: spirits, music, and a stage with a gimmick like Super Mario Maker where the layout is randomized)
• As for Erdrick, if DQ gets in, the franchise would have about as much content as Final Fantasy does (as in just a Character, a Stage, 2 music tracks, and the only spirits will be Fighter Spirits depicted the Smash Render) since paying Akira Toriyama (Artist and DB Mangaka) and Koichi Sugiyama (Composer who is apparently difficult to work with) sounds really expensive. Wouldn't make more sense to choose a rep where you'd get your money's worth in terms of content?

Also, I'm still convinced that those rumors of a Square Enix rep were people misinterpreting a negotiation involving Square Enix and jumping the gun the moment DLC was mentioned when it is also likely that the DLC stuff was Square trying to get Cloud to be DLC again and only conceded because they didn't want to be known as the only one who didn't play ball with the "Everyone is Here" thing...

Then again, I'm mostly interested in Artorias on that list of names if only because I needed a character to replace Sub-Zero on my wanted character list (MK probably won't get a rep due to being banned in Japan), the rest I'm mildly intrigued on.

 

[SimonferSmash]

Honestly, the only reasons I'm not interested in either Steve or Erdrick has nothing to do with how I feel about games since I never played Minecraft or Dragon Quest (but I do know of them via watching YouTube videos)

• Steve, I feel, would be very difficult to get to work without veering into the uncanny valley (and isn't 2D, unlike Game & Watch). Minecraft, to me, seems like it would be better represented through other means rather than a character since, IIRC, Minecraft is less about the characters and more about the sandbox (or in other words: spirits, music, and a stage with a gimmick like Super Mario Maker where the layout is randomized)
• As for Erdrick, if DQ gets in, the franchise would have about as much content as Final Fantasy does (as in just a Character, a Stage, 2 music tracks, and the only spirits will be Fighter Spirits depicted the Smash Render) since paying Akira Toriyama (Artist and DB Mangaka) and Koichi Sugiyama (Composer who is apparently difficult to work with) sounds really expensive. Wouldn't make more sense to choose a rep where you'd get your money's worth in terms of content?

Also, I'm still convinced that those rumors of a Square Enix rep were people misinterpreting a negotiation involving Square Enix and jumping the gun the moment DLC was mentioned when it is also likely that the DLC stuff was Square trying to get Cloud to be DLC again and only conceded because they didn't want to be known as the only one who didn't play ball with the "Everyone is Here" thing...

Then again, I'm mostly interested in Artorias on that list of names if only because I needed a character to replace Sub-Zero on my wanted character list (MK probably won't get a rep due to being banned in Japan), the rest I'm mildly intrigued on.

Which is exactly why I feel tomb raider would generate more content if picked from SE.

That is...depending on if crystal dynamics is easier to negotiate with...

 

[Ornl]

(reminder) Apologia about Dragon Quest
Notes for readers who doubt about Dragon Quest DLC Fighter.

Spoiler

History
• Dragon Quest is a series that have almost 40 games, and is considered to be part of the Nintendo family. Most games in the series (including Monsters) are on Nintendo support. The series is even entitled to a specific logo version when the game is released by Nintendo, which is not done with any other outside license. Slime inspired the same enemy in Zelda 3 and subsequent opuses. He also appeared in three Mario games : Itadaki Street DS, Mario Sports Mix and Fortune Street, and in Miitopia.
• The Dragon Quest series has already sold 76 million units. Dragon Quest IX is the best selling third party game at Nintendo, and the 12th position of the best-selling games in Japan. Dragon Quest VII 16th. Dragon Quest III 23rd. Dragon Quest VIII 25th.
• The animated series Captain N (1989) brings together a lot of video game universes. Among them, there are elements from Castlevania, Donkey Kong, Final Fantasy, Kid Icarus, Mario, Megaman, Metroid, Punch Out !!, Zelda, Dragon Quest, Faxanadu, Gradius, Tetris, and Wizards & Warriors.

Famitsū
• The Japanese video game magazine Famitsū assigns scores to video games. Dragon Quest IX and IX received a perfect score. Dragon Quest II and VIII received anear-perfect score of 39/40.
• Famitsū included a developper column where Sakurai publish bi-weekly column since 2003. Regarding back on his past columns in 2016, he mentioned Final Fantasy 77 times, Dragon Quest 71, Metal Gear 46, Monster Hunter 42, Zelda 41, Mario 40, Pokémon 34, Street Fighter 32, Gradius 30 and Mother 29.
• In 2016, in the most memorable games on each console, Final Fantasy appears 17 times, Mario 15, Dragon Quest 12, Pokémon 9 and Megami Tensei 9. In 2017, according to the Famitsū readers, Dragon Quest III is in 2sd position of the favorite game of all time and the top 20 RPG of all time after Persona 5. In this poll, it is also stated that Square-Enix is the second favorite company after Sega.

Reggie announcement
Unlike Sora and Geno, and like Joker and Piranha Plant, Erdrick and Crono certainly haven't massively votes in the ballot. So they would be : "Who never saw it coming, new to the series, just like Joker from Persona 5 : it's emblematic of the approach that Mr. Sakurai and the team are taking with the DLC".

Image interpretation
On February 4th, the general director of the Kirby series, Shinya Kumazaki, made a post on Instagram showcasing a number of photos of Kirby next to Erdrick's shield. The post reads: "The brave's shield. そして伝説がはじまった！ (And thus, the legend started!)". However, the post has since been edited to state that "This picture has no meaning", and Kumazaki's profile was updated to read "Photo are unrelated to work". Kumazaki isn't directly involved in the Super Smash Bros. series, only being listed as an Original Game Supervisor for Ultimate.

 

[Door Key Pig]

Honestly, the only reasons I'm not interested in either Steve or Erdrick has nothing to do with how I feel about games since I never played Minecraft or Dragon Quest (but I do know of them via watching YouTube videos)

• Steve, I feel, would be very difficult to get to work without veering into the uncanny valley (and isn't 2D, unlike Game & Watch). Minecraft, to me, seems like it would be better represented through other means rather than a character since, IIRC, Minecraft is less about the characters and more about the sandbox (or in other words: spirits, music, and a stage with a gimmick like Super Mario Maker where the layout is randomized)
• As for Erdrick, if DQ gets in, the franchise would have about as much content as Final Fantasy does (as in just a Character, a Stage, 2 music tracks, and the only spirits will be Fighter Spirits depicted the Smash Render) since paying Akira Toriyama (Artist and DB Mangaka) and Koichi Sugiyama (Composer who is apparently difficult to work with) sounds really expensive. Wouldn't make more sense to choose a rep where you'd get your money's worth in terms of content?

Also, I'm still convinced that those rumors of a Square Enix rep were people misinterpreting a negotiation involving Square Enix and jumping the gun the moment DLC was mentioned when it is also likely that the DLC stuff was Square trying to get Cloud to be DLC again and only conceded because they didn't want to be known as the only one who didn't play ball with the "Everyone is Here" thing...

Then again, I'm mostly interested in Artorias on that list of names if only because I needed a character to replace Sub-Zero on my wanted character list (MK probably won't get a rep due to being banned in Japan), the rest I'm mildly intrigued on.

Yeah I have to order if a DQ character would get much of a spirits DLC board like the DLC fighters are supposedly getting...

 

[3BitSaurus]

Honestly, the only reasons I'm not interested in either Steve or Erdrick has nothing to do with how I feel about games since I never played Minecraft or Dragon Quest (but I do know of them via watching YouTube videos)

• Steve, I feel, would be very difficult to get to work without veering into the uncanny valley (and isn't 2D, unlike Game & Watch). Minecraft, to me, seems like it would be better represented through other means rather than a character since, IIRC, Minecraft is less about the characters and more about the sandbox (or in other words: spirits, music, and a stage with a gimmick like Super Mario Maker where the layout is randomized)
• As for Erdrick, if DQ gets in, the franchise would have about as much content as Final Fantasy does (as in just a Character, a Stage, 2 music tracks, and the only spirits will be Fighter Spirits depicted the Smash Render) since paying Akira Toriyama (Artist and DB Mangaka) and Koichi Sugiyama (Composer who is apparently difficult to work with) sounds really expensive. Wouldn't make more sense to choose a rep where you'd get your money's worth in terms of content?

Regarding Steve, a lot of people use Mr. Game & Watch as a counter argument, but I personally think that's not a good comparison. They didn't necessarily add much to G&W's animations, they just mostly used still frames, which fits with his character. I think Ice Climbers and Duck Hunt offer a better likeness: they weren't animated in this way in their original games and thus several of their moves are completely new (including new attack angles and everything). And their animation was also kinda "clunky" in their original games due to the times. I think this is what Sakurai and the team could go for should they choose Steve.

The music got me thinking though. I think they wold probably need to remix a lot of Minecraft tracks. I dunno exactly how much work that would take. It's perfectly doable, as seen with Animal Crossing and G&W music, but Joker only came with one new arrangement. I've no idea how they would go around this one.

As for DQ content... while I think we shouldn't judge the situation based on Smash 4 DLC (I think that while comparisons can be drawn, they are different things altogether), it's still a perfectly valid concern. I don't fully have a grasp in the situation, but it seems that the rights for Square's older IPs are all over the place. I have no doubts DQ content would sell more than enough to make up for any costs, but it still comes with the question of how many tracks (including remixes) and Spirits we would get - there's no guarantee the numbers will all be the same for every DLC character. Also, would these spirits and songs be just from DQIII (like the Persona Spirits, all from P5) or would they represent DQ as a whole?

 

[osby]

The music got me thinking though. I think they wold probably need to remix a lot of Minecraft tracks. I dunno exactly how much work that would take. It's perfectly doable, as seen with Animal Crossing and G&W music, but Joker only came with one new arrangement. I've no idea how they would go around this one.

Persona has three different remixes in Smash, not one.

 

[3BitSaurus]

Persona has three different remixes in Smash, not one.

Ah, true, for some reason I forgot about I'll Face Myself and Aria of the Soul. I guess because I don't listen to them as much.

On a sidenote, I really liked the former's original "boss battle" version more.

 

[Robdelia]

I'm of the mindset that Steve is the unholy trifecta of animation problems in Smash. He can't emote aside from opening and closing his eyes. His limbs are pretty stiff. And he's third party, meaning Sakurai and his team care extra hard about accurately portraying them in Smash as they appear in their home game. Meaning I don't think they'd redesign Steve just for Smash or use his Story Mode design with eyebrows because that's not how Steve looks in OG Minecraft. I'd be happy to be proven wrong because I'd love to see how weird and janky his kit would be (his forward smash being him opening a door for example). But I'm just tempering my expectations early and not expecting him.

 

[SargeAbernathy]

More I look into Google Theory, the more suspicious I am of it. I gave it a fair look! But it just seems too convenient in some places, and sketchy elsewhere.

The "leak" posted a day before PapaGeno's video that mentions three of the four characters is just too convenient. Billybo's video an hour ago mentions this leak if you want to take a look. He also explains why Artorious is unlikely as a character, which is compelling.

 

[Wunderwaft]

I'm of the mindset that Steve is the unholy trifecta of animation problems in Smash. He can't emote aside from opening and closing his eyes. His limbs are pretty stiff. And he's third party, meaning Sakurai and his team care extra hard about accurately portraying them in Smash as they appear in their home game. Meaning I don't think they'd redesign Steve just for Smash or use his Story Mode design with eyebrows because that's not how Steve looks in OG Minecraft. I'd be happy to be proven wrong because I'd love to see how weird and janky his kit would be (his forward smash being him opening a door for example). But I'm just tempering my expectations early and not expecting him.

I doubt he'd be hard to work with. There already are animators on the internet who put Steve to the test and decided to see how he would look like if he was playable in Smash. The results reveal that he can have a moveset created without it looking too weird and out of place.
Here's an example of what I'm talking about:

 

[Robdelia]

I doubt he'd be hard to work with. There already are animators on the internet who put Steve to the test and decided to see how he would look like if he was playable in Smash. The results reveal that he can have a moveset created without it looking too weird and out of place.
Here's an example of what I'm talking about:

Seeing Steve actually move when he jumps looks really jarring and I don't know why lol. Nice video but I'm still kinda worried for him.

 

[thisjustin2001]

So, someone told me Nintendo uploaded not one, but TWO private videos to the Smash Bros channel. Can anyone verify this for me? If that's the case, that is a very interesting development. I always thought two reveals really soon is pretty likely anyway, but this would almost make it a lock to happen.

 

[Deleted member]

So, someone told me Nintendo uploaded not one, but TWO private videos to the Smash Bros channel. Can anyone verify this for me? If that's the case, that is a very interesting development. I always thought two reveals really soon is pretty likely anyway, but this would almost make it a lock to happen.

Pushdustin reported that Japanese users received an email in December that Fighter Pass 2 and 3 are being worked on.

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[Door Key Pig]

So, someone told me Nintendo uploaded not one, but TWO private videos to the Smash Bros channel. Can anyone verify this for me? If that's the case, that is a very interesting development. I always thought two reveals really soon is pretty likely anyway, but this would almost make it a lock to happen.

There was the whole BLUE DOT ON THE CHANNEL thing meaning they uploaded a video privately, but I haven't heard of two videos or, it happening twice to mean that.

 

[SchAlternate]

Made this yesterday in response to the leak, but only got to post it now.

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[Ovaltine]

Made this yesterday in response to the leak, but only got to post it now.

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As much as I'm 100% positive that it's not real, this is a riot. Really sweet art style, by the by! You always post your art on Twitter, or do you have somewhere else I could find it compiled? Your style is bueno.

 

[SchAlternate]

As much as I'm 100% positive that it's not real, this is a riot. Really sweet art style, by the by! You always post your art on Twitter, or do you have somewhere else I could find it compiled? Your style is bueno.

I also have a DeviantArt, if you're interested.

 

[GoodGrief741]

Made this yesterday in response to the leak, but only got to post it now.

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This is so great.

 

[Robdelia]

Made this yesterday in response to the leak, but only got to post it now.

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Oh hey I recognize you from a bunch of Youtube comments sections. Your art is fantastic btw.

 

[MajoraMan28]

This is so great.

It's pretty sad, imo
Goes to show how Banjo is basically the only one that would make sense.
Artorias I'm fine with, but the other 2, specially Doom Slayer...... my god, the cringe

 

[shinhed-echi]

Dear god, unless they plan for him to playable, that would shatter my heart into pieces if they omitted that costume. I don't even want to think about it... but it's unfortunately a possibility. This is Square we're talking about...

So, someone told me Nintendo uploaded not one, but TWO private videos to the Smash Bros channel. Can anyone verify this for me? If that's the case, that is a very interesting development. I always thought two reveals really soon is pretty likely anyway, but this would almost make it a lock to happen.

could be one for English and one for Japanese?

 

[MamaLuigi123456]

The more I think about these ad leaks the more I'm convinced they're not from Nintendo.

They use specific keywords, give off too much information, and the DLC is very tightly wrapped from what we know - seriously, no one "leaked" Joker until he was revealed at the game awards and even while he was under development we ended up learning nothing about him until he was formally shown off. Nintendo themselves leaked Stage Builder just to be ****ing nice, and even then we didn't get any details until the update dropped.

I'd happily eat my words if I'm wrong because I'd be cool with this lineup of characters, Banjo especially. I'd like to be wrong, I just don't think I am this time.

 

[Ovaltine]

could be one for English and one for Japanese?

If your implication is Erdrick to sate the SE fans in the East and Geno to sate the West (given you quoted my post on Geno's outfit/his status), I sincerely doubt that. It's Square Enix. The only way I can see that is Geno being individual DLC outside of the pass, and that is nothing I'd ever place a bet on. It'd just be Erdrick or just be Geno (super sure it's the former).

 

[shinhed-echi]

If your implication is Erdrick to sate the SE fans in the East and Geno to sate the West (given you quoted my post on Geno's outfit/his status), I sincerely doubt that. It's Square Enix. The only way I can see that is Geno being individual DLC outside of the pass, and that is nothing I'd ever place a bet on. It'd just be Erdrick or just be Geno (super sure it's the former).

No, I meant it like what if it’s a narrated trailer, like Joker or Bayonetta, or Corrin. They’d need two versions of the same video.

(And I doubt DQ will have a narrated trailer, unless the focus was Luminary or Eight).

 

[Idon]

It's pretty sad, imo
Goes to show how Banjo is basically the only one that would make sense.
Artorias I'm fine with, but the other 2, specially Doom Slayer...... my god, the cringe

Where exactly is this cringe coming from?

 

[shinhed-echi]

It's pretty sad, imo
Goes to show how Banjo is basically the only one that would make sense.
Artorias I'm fine with, but the other 2, specially Doom Slayer...... my god, the cringe

Yeah, why wouldn’t Doom Slayer make sense?

 

[Deleted member]

Made this yesterday in response to the leak, but only got to post it now.

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At least the bear and bird have Piranha Plant as company.
I'd say Joker too but....show's over. :V

 

[N3ON]

Made this yesterday in response to the leak, but only got to post it now.

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Can't help but be reminded of this:

 

[Curious Villager]

Made this yesterday in response to the leak, but only got to post it now.

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Now that I'm thinking about it, are all these characters (Besides Banjo Kazooie) from M-rated series?

nice drawing by the way.

 

[Deleted member]

One pipe dream character I don’t usually talk about is Darkrai.

And to make him feel more like a hard to achive dream, I would love it if he came with a cover of this wonderful theme:

Sadly, that won’t happen since it comes from a movie.

 

[Ultomato]

One pipe dream character I don’t usually talk about is Darkrai.

And to make him feel more like a hard to achive dream, I would love it if he came with a cover of this wonderful theme:

Sadly, that won’t happen since it comes from a movie.

Honestly that theme alone made it my second favourite Pokémon movie

 

[GoodGrief741]

Can't help but be reminded of this:

Mah boi there doing his best.

Now that I'm thinking about it, are all these characters (Besides Banjo Kazooie) from M-rated series?

nice drawing by the way.

Ninja Gaiden wasn't always M-rated.

 

[Dukefire]

Mah boi there doing his best.

Ninja Gaiden wasn't always M-rated.

In the classic games yes.

But modern games made him M rated for all the Hack and Slash fighting.

 

[Curious Villager]

In the classic games yes.

But modern games made him M rated for all the Hack and Slash fighting.

Heh, guess Nintendo really wants that mature audience if four out of five DLC characters are really from (generally) M-Rated games and franchises.....

 

[Dukefire]

Heh, guess Nintendo really wants that mature audience if four out of five DLC characters are really from (generally) M-Rated games and franchises.....

Well, we still don't know what is Nintendo's next move for character(s) #2 & #3 for E3. Plus Sakurai has to put in a lot of detail for the selected Character to represent their series as a whole for the closest him and the team can do.

 

[thisjustin2001]

Heh, guess Nintendo really wants that mature audience if four out of five DLC characters are really from (generally) M-Rated games and franchises.....

And Banjo would also be targeting an adult audience. Specifically the adults that had/grew up with an N64 in the nineties.

 

[TheCJBrine]

I think Steve would work fine, every character in Smash has some new animations with some even having a bit of a different personality (I think).

Steve wouldn't have to be limited to the animations in Minecraft; said animations already prove he can move his arms in any direction, plus if they don't want stiff limbs then they could go with Minecraft: Dungeons' animations - which still have stiff limbs, tbh, but they can actually bend at least. Not that I'd mind the usual stiff limbs, as I personally think they would be fine and would even love them. They could even make him expressive through how he moves in some animations, and make his eyes change size depending on what he's doing/what's happening; they could make his pupils slide left or right as well like in an animation shared earlier on here (if they don't just use the expressions in Dungeons).

Plus it's not like Sakurai would take no liberties at all, especially if Mojang would like to see what he could do. It's not like Pac-Man was restricted to just his original game and his 3D games; he was basically made Namco's Arcade God.

 

[osby]

I think Steve would work fine, every character in Smash has some new animations with some even having a bit of a different personality (I think).

Steve wouldn't have to be limited to the animations in Minecraft; said animations already prove he can move his arms in any direction, plus if they don't want stiff limbs then they could go with Minecraft: Dungeons' animations - which still have stiff limbs, tbh, but they can actually bend at least. Not that I'd mind the usual stiff limbs, as I personally think they would be fine and would even love them. They could even make him expressive through how he moves in some animations, and make his eyes change size depending on what he's doing/what's happening; they could make his pupils slide left or right as well like in an animation shared earlier on here (if they don't just use the expressions in Dungeons).

Plus it's not like Sakurai would take no liberties at all, especially if Mojang would like to see what he could do. It's not like Pac-Man was restricted to just his original game and his 3D games; he was basically made Namco's Arcade God.

I never saw anyone complaining about Samus' s lack of facial expressions, so it's kinda weird when people bring that up.

And if R.O.B. is anything to go by, there is nothing stopping Sakurai from giving characters more joints.