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Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

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NickoRaptor

Smash Cadet
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Jun 21, 2018
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27
This seems like a major point against it:
There was a problem fetching the tweet
Yeah I saw that. Not saying it's 100% real because of course someone who really wants to mess with fans can pay for the ad to show up, I just want to know how long it'll still come up consistently. If it goes down it's fake, if it stays up then it's either real or someone is really financially committed to screwing with people.
 

Diddy Kong

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RTC Capcom rep
(only the most recent, rounded to 0.5 decimal)
- Phoenix Wright : 33%
- Monster Hunter : 30.5%
- Leon S. Kennedy : 29%
- Jill Valentine : 21.5%
- Amaterasu : 9%
- Dante : unknow


PERSONNAL OBSERVATIONS
(The magazine Famitsu is quoted as a reference because it offers a vision from Japanese players, and Sakurai has his own column since 2003)

Phoenix Wright
+ He was born on GBA. Smash Bros have no Fighter whose license is born on GBA.
+ The license has 2 places in the top 20 favorite adventure games by Famitsu readers (2017). The license appears at least 9 times on the cover of the Nintendo DREAM magazine, in front of all other Capcom licenses.
- Only 7 million units sold for the entire series. For comparison, Ōkami has 7 million units sold for only 2 different games.
- He is certainly high placed in the ballot, so he's expected, unlike Piranha Plant, Joker and Brave.

Hunter
+ 52 million units sold and high notoriety. 10th and 15th best sales in Japan. The license has 6 places in the top 10 favorite games on each console by Famitsu readers (2015).
- He's too expected (Assist Trophy, Amiibo, Sm4sh Costumes, Nintendo content in several games).

Resident Evil Rep
+ 85 million units sold and the greatest notoriety from Capcom. The license has 5 places in the top 10 favorite games on each console by Famitsu readers (2015), and has 3 places in the top 20 favorite action-adventure games by Famitsu readers (2017).
? Controversy about possible gameplay.
- Maximum age limit (which is rare, being only the case of Snake and Bayonetta).

Amaterasu
+ 17th favorite game of all time by Famitsu readers (2017).
+ Non-human and high potential of original gamelay.
- Excellent sales, but the license isn't really a series (only two different games).

Dante
? Excellent sales. But the series doesn't appear in any top by Famitsu's readers (2015 to 2017).
- Maximum age limit (which is rare, being only the case of Snake and Bayonetta).
- Same creator as Bayonetta. Universe close to Bayonetta and Joker (contemporary era, guns, demons). He already appears in various crossover, but his appearance in Shin Megami Tensei: Nocturne is another link with Joker.

Capcom and Famitsu readers
According to a poll from Famitsu readers (2015), Sega is preferred at 20%, Squenix 17%, Konami 12%, Nintendo 11%, Atlus 7%, Spike Chunsoft 5%, Bamco 4%, Capcom 4%, Sony 3%, then Koei Tecmo 2%.

Capcom content in Smash
Capcom
already is third-party company with the most Assist Trophies, multiple bosses, the most Costumes in Sm4sh, the most Spirits, and the only with Master Spirits.

Personal warning of Costume Theory
According to Reggie, every new DLC Fighter should be "never saw it coming". By bringing Sega Costumes with Joker, then potentially Squenix Costumes with Brave, Nintendo could have created a false clue. Given the lack of Capcom Costumes, the community might be thinking of a new Capcom Fighter. But this is contrary to the fact that a new Fighter should be "never saw it coming". This conditioning could be a decoy, to continue to create surprise and propose unexpected characters.
With all things mentoined, I still think Monster Hunter is very likely to be one of the upcoming DLC fighters honestly. The Smash 4 costume is gone, despite it having every reason to be there with Rathalos. Am pretty sure he was postphoned for DLC because there wasn't too much time to include him in the base game. I would think it strange if the Hunter where to be absent from the DLC fighter pass in all cases.
 

Megadoomer

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With all things mentoined, I still think Monster Hunter is very likely to be one of the upcoming DLC fighters honestly. The Smash 4 costume is gone, despite it having every reason to be there with Rathalos. Am pretty sure he was postphoned for DLC because there wasn't too much time to include him in the base game. I would think it strange if the Hunter where to be absent from the DLC fighter pass in all cases.
All of the third party Mii costumes were removed from the base game. That, on its own, doesn't mean anything.
 

RileyXY1

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I think that the Sonic Mii costumes not only deconfirm any other Sonic (or potentially Sega) character from being part of the pass, it also suggests that Square Enix is getting a character in the pass as well, since I'm sure that the Geno costume will come back and they will announce it along with the Square character.
Erdrick or not is still a mystery. If the Square character happens to be Geno himself (a bit unlikely), it's possible that they won't bring back the Mii costume.

And for some reason I'm still convinced that we're getting at least 2 first parties in the pass (maybe even 3 but it's unlikely). It's Smash bros after all, they always give priority to Nintendo characters in quantity.

We still have to find if spirits deconfirm characters or not, because if they do, there are some interesting hints hidden in the list of spirits that might suggest who the first parties could be (if there is any).

Lastly, we have to know if there will be another fighter pass after this one, but there is still a lot of time to wait for knowing this.
However, Akira and Jacky's Mii Fighter costumes did not come back, so this means that not all of the 3rd party Mii Fighter costumes from Smash 4 are coming back.
 

Verde Coeden Scalesworth

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However, Akira and Jacky's Mii Fighter costumes did not come back, so this means that not all of the 3rd party Mii Fighter costumes from Smash 4 are coming back.
Or they're not all going to come back with a specific character right away. We can still get them, just not with a Sega character. IMO, this feels more realistic. Not like every costume needs to be tied to a playable DLC character anyway. Or a company DLC character. It's a neat theory, but I on't put much stock into it.
 
D

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I'll say this now:

The Google Theory is making the speculation community a hell hole.
 

Ovaltine

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I'll say this now:

The Google Theory is making the speculation community a hell hole.
It boggles me how this one, of all theories, is making the speculation community go mad, too. This theory holds as much water as a bottomless bucket.
 
D

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It boggles me how this one, of all theories, is making the speculation community go mad, too. This theory holds as much water as a bottomless bucket.
And it is making some people go against the support of a DQ rep too.

I can live without a DQ rep in Smash (as much as I would love one), but I can't stand the idea of returning to the dark ages of hiding my love for the series on the whole internet due to the series not being wanted by some people.

Really? I've actually seen most people just dismiss it, haven't seen that much drama involved with it yet. Perhapes i'm just not looking in the right places though.

Maybe I'm just drama-hardened by box theory/Grinch leak era.
Trust me:
It is getting on my nerves for the bad reasons.

Many places I used to enjoy being in are now impossible to stand due to the people who want DQ out of Smash at any form.
 
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Ovaltine

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And it is making some people go against the support of a DQ rep too.

I can live without a DQ rep in Smash (as much as I would love one), but I can't stand the idea of returning to the dark ages of hiding my love for the series on the whole internet due to the series not being wanted by some people.

Trust me:
It is getting on my nerves for the bad reasons.

Many places I used to enjoy being in are now impossible to stand due to the people who want DQ out of Smash at any form.
Honestly, the Smash speculation scene has been feverishly against Erdrick for a long while, and they're using any theory possible as ammo against him and DQ in general. Most of the people doing so are either fans of other characters (some Sora fans, unfortunately mostly Geno fans, making me hella ashamed to be a Geno supporter) or are against 'more anime' in Smash. You know, because DQ's huge legacy doesn't matter or anything, noooo.

It's really stupid. I'm not even a fan of DQ and feel indifferent towards Erdrick (and would even prefer Slime because AAA SLIMIES ARE SO CUTE), but I understand its importance. It'll make a lot of people happy. No one should have to feel ashamed about the stuff they like. God knows I go through it all the time, given that I love Geno, a very polarizing figure in the Smash community right now. NO ONE should go through that. It SUCKS.
 
D

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Honestly, the Smash speculation scene has been feverishly against Erdrick for a long while, and they're using any theory possible as ammo against him and DQ in general. Most of the people doing so are either fans of other characters (some Sora fans, unfortunately mostly Geno fans, making me hella ashamed to be a Geno supporter) or are against 'more anime' in Smash. You know, because DQ's huge legacy doesn't matter or anything, noooo.

It's really stupid. I'm not even a fan of DQ and feel indifferent towards Erdrick (and would even prefer Slime because AAA SLIMIES ARE SO CUTE), but I understand its importance. It'll make a lot of people happy. No one should have to feel ashamed about the stuff they like. God knows I go through it all the time, given that I love Geno, a very polarizing figure in the Smash community right now. NO ONE should go through that. It SUCKS.
You nailed my exact thoughts.

Fear of sharing your tastes shouldn't be a thing regarding speculation of a game.
 

Smashoperatingbuddy123

Smash Legend
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I don't want to talk about it.

It is giving me too many problems on most of the places I go online.
too late i just found it

its just simply searching the following characters in europes google

banjo
ryu hayabusa
doom slayer
Artorias
and ofcoarse joker

you just end up with the fighter pass ad and no other character causes it to come up most particaul steve doesn't cause it to come up

this is nothing more than a correlation that doesn't mean its true

its like the whole "ice cream = more murders" thing from correlation vs causation type of stuff


not buying into it until shown otherwise
 
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Ovaltine

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You nailed my exact thoughts.

Fear of sharing your tastes shouldn't be a thing regarding speculation of a game.
No matter what series or characters you like, you shouldn't have to hide in fear. Period. It's ****ed up.

I know you don't want to talk about it right now, but if you ever do, my lines are always open, alright? I empathize so much, and I'd be happy to lend an ear. Same goes for any of DQ's fans around here... or fans of anyone fearing about opening up about their tastes.
 
D

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No matter what series or characters you like, you shouldn't have to hide in fear. Period. It's ****ed up.

I know you don't want to talk about it right now, but if you ever do, my lines are always open, alright? I empathize so much, and I'd be happy to lend an ear. Same goes for any of DQ's fans around here... or fans of anyone fearing about opening up about their tastes.
Ovaltine, I really appreciate your support.

I'll try to make something with the people I rely most on here.
 

Verde Coeden Scalesworth

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It is sad too. A lot of character support gets drowned out in a way that's overly negative and unnecessary. Like, many know who I support the most(Brian from Quest 64), but while I get little talk about him as is(and more or less nobody says negative stuff... probably cause I explain why he's unlikely myself?), I see a lot of hatred towards others I support, like Steve and Slime. Why the hatred? It's fine not to prefer them, but the hatred is uncalled for.

Obviously Microsoft characters are considered in competition with each other. I get why some prefer one over the other. But that's not hatred, that's preference. Hatred is toxic. Preference is being reasonable. And that's not counting some of the bad arguments being made either. It sucks being a supporter sometimes.
 

Wunderwaft

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People will always be desperate and support the leak that fits their wishes while trashing on leaks that goes against their demands. That's why people tried to desperately debunk the ESRB leak, and that's why people tried to desperately believe in the Grinch leak. The google "leak" (why do we even call it a leak?) has nothing substantial to it and relies on a search engine of all things, a search engine with an algorithm that changes depending on YOUR search history. People are desperate to prove that Steve and Erdrick aren't part of the fighters pass so as a result they'll cling to any leak, no matter how ridiculous and far-fetched it may seem, just so they can live in a bubble and ignore reality.
 

Robdelia

Smash Apprentice
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Messages
121
I'll say this now:

The Google Theory is making the speculation community a hell hole.
The speculation community has always been a hell hole. Not even for Ult only. People meme about Waluigi fans but K Rool and especially Ridley fans were pretty bad back in Smash 4 and Brawl speculation days. Then you got leak culture where people jump head-first into leaks and believe them fully just so they can get more clout from being right about the DLC.
I have a theory that mentioning Smash newcomers amplifies how toxic a community can be, cause you just have people screaming about how their favorite pick deserves to be in and how everything else sucks.
 

Megadoomer

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People will always be desperate and support the leak that fits their wishes while trashing on leaks that goes against their demands. That's why people tried to desperately debunk the ESRB leak, and that's why people tried to desperately believe in the Grinch leak. The google "leak" (why do we even call it a leak?) has nothing substantial to it and relies on a search engine of all things, a search engine with an algorithm that changes depending on YOUR search history. People are desperate to prove that Steve and Erdrick aren't part of the fighters pass so as a result they'll cling to any leak, no matter how ridiculous and far-fetched it may seem, just so they can live in a bubble and ignore reality.
I get Erdrick, given the whole "Brave" thing, but what makes Steve seem like such a lock? I'm not sure if I missed any datamining or interviews or something. (I know that Vergeben said that there's Minecraft content in the game, but his track record with DLC hasn't been proven to be as good as his track record with the base game)
 

Wunderwaft

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I get Erdrick, given the whole "Brave" thing, but what makes Steve seem like such a lock? I'm not sure if I missed any datamining or interviews or something. (I know that Vergeben said that there's Minecraft content in the game, but his track record with DLC hasn't been proven to be as good as his track record with the base game)
Steve does have some evidence that points to his inclusion but it's not enough to call him a lock. Despite that, people are scared of the possibility of Steve's inclusion so they have been desperately attempting to deconfirm him, like taking the words of a community manager from mojang and twisting it into Steve getting deconfirmed.
 

osby

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After Joker, I've seen a lot of people acting like Steve is deconfirmed because he couldn't bring any Spirits or music, because Minecraft isn't known for its music or characters.

Never mind that Wii Fit has 10 tracks and 11 Spirits.
 
D

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After Joker, I've seen a lot of people acting like Steve is deconfirmed because he couldn't bring any Spirits or music, because Minecraft isn't known for its music or characters.

Never mind that Wii Fit has 10 tracks and 11 Spirits.
That... Sounds nonsensical.

And good take with Wii Fit, since it perfectly takes down that "argument".
 

Robdelia

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After Joker, I've seen a lot of people acting like Steve is deconfirmed because he couldn't bring any Spirits or music, because Minecraft isn't known for its music or characters.

Never mind that Wii Fit has 10 tracks and 11 Spirits.
Bruh we got environmental noises as a song. Minecraft would be fine in the music department.
 

Teeb147

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If there is a microsoft rep, i dont personally care who it is. For me im just wondering if there'll even be one. A lot of people look to nintendo and microsoft for having more stuff together, and that's fine and good but that doesn't mean nintendo wants one of their characters in smash.

Either way i'm pretty curious to find out.
 

shinhed-echi

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I would lose my s....leep if Doomguy and Ryu Hayabusa were in (if no DQ character were included, I’d main the hell out of Doomguy), but yeah, Google ads seems like the bottom of the barrel of attempts.


And it is making some people go against the support of a DQ rep too.

I can live without a DQ rep in Smash (as much as I would love one), but I can't stand the idea of returning to the dark ages of hiding my love for the series on the whole internet due to the series not being wanted by some people.


Trust me:
It is getting on my nerves for the bad reasons.

Many places I used to enjoy being in are now impossible to stand due to the people who want DQ out of Smash at any form.
I know what you mean. This is why I try to keep my discussions where it’s more civil. Sure I used to occasionally go lecture mode on you tubers who don’t know any better. But yeah, in smashboards we may all be chill, but on social media, DQ fans be like
 

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thisjustin2001

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It is sad too. A lot of character support gets drowned out in a way that's overly negative and unnecessary. Like, many know who I support the most(Brian from Quest 64), but while I get little talk about him as is(and more or less nobody says negative stuff... probably cause I explain why he's unlikely myself?), I see a lot of hatred towards others I support, like Steve and Slime. Why the hatred? It's fine not to prefer them, but the hatred is uncalled for.

Obviously Microsoft characters are considered in competition with each other. I get why some prefer one over the other. But that's not hatred, that's preference. Hatred is toxic. Preference is being reasonable. And that's not counting some of the bad arguments being made either. It sucks being a supporter sometimes.
Yeah, this has been a problem for me too. I've been supporting Sans from Undertale and, as you guys know, that's a very controversial thing to do. I wasn't aware of any hatred towards Sans and the Undertale/Deltarune series from some people online until I started making support tweets requesting that Sans joins the battle. Since then, I've been called all sorts of things (on Twitter not Smashboards, you guys are chill) I can't repeat on this website, I've gotten multiple death threats, it's just been ridiculous. I can't understand how you could detest a character from a videogame so much that you'd resort to that whenever you hear that someone likes that character.

So, as a result, myself and a lot of other people have become apprehensive about talking about Undertale representation in Smash. Closeted Sans fans of you will, haha. One of the things people tell me that I can repeat is that, because I'm an Undertale fan, I'm toxic and a horrible human being. If anything, the Undertale fans aren't the toxic ones, the hatebase is far...FAR worse than the fans ever were. I really hope the Smash speculation community can learn to refrain from bullying others for wanting different things than they do in the future. Thanks for letting me vent a little, haha.
 
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Verde Coeden Scalesworth

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Yeah, this has been a problem for me too. I've been supporting Sans from Undertale and, as you guys know, that's a very controversial thing to do. I wasn't aware of any hatred towards Sans and the Undertale/Deltarune series from some people online until I started making support tweets requesting that Sans joins the battle. Since then, I've been called all sorts of things (on Twitter not Smashboards, you guys are chill) I can't repeat on this website, I've gotten multiple death threats, it's just been ridiculous. I can't understand how you could detest a character from a videogame so much that you'd resort to that whenever you hear that someone likes that character.

So, as a result, myself and a lot of other people have become apprehensive about talking about Undertale representation in Smash. Closeted Sans fans of you will, haha. One of the things people tell me that I can repeat is that because I'm an Undertale fan, I'm toxic and a horrible human being. If anything, the Undertale fans aren't the toxic ones, the hatebase is far...FAR worse than the fans ever were. I really hope the Smash speculation community can learn to refrain from bullying others for wanting different things than they do in the future. Thanks for letting me vent a little, haha.
I hope you reported those death threats. That's beyond ridiculous and only losers do that. Who cares what people want to have in Smash. It's not a big deal. Criticism is fine, of course. But that's an extreme overreaction if I ever saw one. Oy.

You should still fully support your characters regardless. Just report abusive content like they were doing and continue on. Of course, there's a difference between support and spam too. But it sounds like you're just doing normal support anyway~
 
D

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Yeah, this has been a problem for me too. I've been supporting Sans from Undertale and, as you guys know, that's a very controversial thing to do. I wasn't aware of any hatred towards Sans and the Undertale/Deltarune series from some people online until I started making support tweets requesting that Sans joins the battle. Since then, I've been called all sorts of things (on Twitter not Smashboards, you guys are chill) I can't repeat on this website, I've gotten multiple death threats, it's just been ridiculous. I can't understand how you could detest a character from a videogame so much that you'd resort to that whenever you hear that someone likes that character.

So, as a result, myself and a lot of other people have become apprehensive about talking about Undertale representation in Smash. Closeted Sans fans of you will, haha. One of the things people tell me that I can repeat is that, because I'm an Undertale fan, I'm toxic and a horrible human being. If anything, the Undertale fans aren't the toxic ones, the hatebase is far...FAR worse than the fans ever were. I really hope the Smash speculation community can learn to refrain from bullying others for wanting different things than they do in the future. Thanks for letting me vent a little, haha.
This hits me home a lot.

During my dark ages of the internet regarding DQ, I almost found myself on your scenario.
 

thisjustin2001

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I hope you reported those death threats. That's beyond ridiculous and only losers do that. Who cares what people want to have in Smash. It's not a big deal. Criticism is fine, of course. But that's an extreme overreaction if I ever saw one. Oy.

You should still fully support your characters regardless. Just report abusive content like they were doing and continue on. Of course, there's a difference between support and spam too. But it sounds like you're just doing normal support anyway~
I believe people reported the public tweets on my behalf. I went back and looked at the replies of the tweet with the death threats, and they're nowhere to be found. I don't know if this is a horrible thing to say or not, but I kinda hope they got in trouble, haha.

I would frequently post about wanting Sans joining the battle about once or twice a day, because I was so excited. I never replied to tweets more than once, though.

They were in response to this tweet: https://mobile.twitter.com/thisjustin2001/status/1042137773463830528
 

SargeAbernathy

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Ignoring Google Theory: Artorias himself would be a very odd, but not entirely unwelcome character. Aesthetically he'd be very interesting to see in game. I've not played Dark Souls myself, but the gameplay looks awesome.

Now going back to Google Theory: When we got the Joker DLC we also got a lot of content. One thing missing though was a "boss", but I don't think Joker needed a boss. Now, if a Dark Souls rep were part of the DLC ... can't Knight Artorias be a boss?

Watching some gameplay of Artorias ... he seems like he'd be a heavy weight character ... which I don't think "Brave" is. However, I am aware that stats can drastically change during the course of development. Also, even if he WAS dlc, he's not necessarily the next pick. There's a lot of sway that Brave is Erdrick, as many have speculated.

In Reality: I would really be wary of this theory. I've seen theories from other communities based off weird algorithms from Google, YouTube, Daily Motion, etc .... and it's always a rabbit warren.

I've no doubt that what people say on how Google Ads work and what difficulty/ease there would be to "fake" this is true. I'm sure this looks very suspicious ... but the bottom line is that content holders do weird and stupid stuff on the internet. They'll create ads, buy URL names, remove videos, add videos, etc. all the time. I don't know why these four characters get the ad. But even if it was a legit ad from Nintendo that they keyed specifically for those characters ... it still doesn't mean much.

For all you know: Banjo could be Fighter #2, but in the Nintendo Direct they're going to also announce Switch game content for the other three franchises. So someone figured they tie the DLC advert to them as well ... so when people go from the Nintendo Direct to a google search ... they'll get a second dose of DLC advertisement. (This is just one idea/hypothesis)

We don't know. Though I'll admit, it would be a little funny if this turned out true. But fortunately, as with most speculation, we'll soon know. On to E3!
 
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Ridrool64

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Regardless of whether it's Frisk or Sans, a lot of people seem opposed to the idea of Undertale getting in... does it all tie back into the idea of "rrgh competition rrgh" but it's dressed up with excuses? After all, competition is more likely than not one of two primary reasons people bash others' favorites (the other is trolling to get reactions). Regardless of any individuals, I wouldn't doubt for a second that at least a few people opposed to Undertale don't want it in at least before another indie, usually Shantae, Shovel Knight, or Touhou (I don't often see this with Cave Story's Quote, though). It might be because they see the other series' popularity as more "genuine" than Undertale's, or something else, but ultimately it's a matter of competition that drives this feeling. The idea of the "First Indie in Smash" not being Shantae/Shovel Knight/Reimu and it being Frisk/Sans, that might stur up some who wouldn't be as accepting of it as most folks here. Not every Shantae/Shovel Knight/Reimu fan would blow their lid over Undertale in Smash (primarily with a fighter) before any of them, and I suspect almost everyone here is mature enough to understand that just because X character gets in, doesn't mean Y character cannot. But in the speculation scene, it's confirmed or disconfirmed.

I think this ties into the core issue of the assumption that we can only get one of one particular type of character per game. We can only get one character of X genre, from X company, from X series, we can't get any more new series characters, we can't get any more veteran series characters, that type of stuff. Speculation about who gets in often means that if your favorite doesn't get revealed, it's likely that either they're an NPC or absent. And with the way third parties are, if your most wanted is one of those, you likely have to wait for the next game if you see competition get in before your character. With that in mind, I do understand seeing competition in a poor light.

It's why I was bitter at Joker at a time where everybody else had only good things to say about him aside from others like me: people who felt entitled to somebody else of Atlus' libraries, and likelier than not, of SEGA's libraries. It'd probably be the same thing if Tails, Dr. Eggman, Jeanne, Kazuma Kiryu, NiGHTS, Billy Hatcher, Alex Kidd, Jack Frost, Yu Narukami, Vincent, any of them would just be the same and replace Joker as the one I lash out at for not being Arle (and if SHE were to get in, I imagine less mature fans of the other characters would probably do the same to her). I don't attack FANS of Joker, I was just bitter: I overestimated how likely she was, didn't take into account that it applied to her competition too, and walked away feeling bitter about the Game Awards 2018. What Persona 5's fanbase likely holds as a milestone in their circles, for me was a dark day: Arle had become a hard sell to many people. Before, I honest to god saw her as a near lock: the only threat to her chances was the person confirmed in that event. The only person who really made her less popular as a pick had gotten in. Now I'd likely be considered a fool for even thinking she'd get in at all here, in less welcoming places. My best bet is something I'm convinced is not happening, a second pass, and there's no guarantee she'll be in it as well. It's, as I will admit, unfairly soured my view of a character that, when I don't take that into account, is amazing. Truly wonderful. The attention to detail, the beauty in his animations, the sheer passion for Persona 5 Sakurai holds is plainly visible with Joker and Mementos. But every time I see him in action, every time I see him fighting Kirby, going through Classic, fighting bosses, doing anything, and sometimes, even when I see Mementos or hear a Persona 5 song: my first thought is, regardless of severity, and sometimes even when I try not to: "That could've been Arle", which if unchecked, will lead to "That should've been Arle" and "Why is it him and not her?" I don't need to vocalize my displeasure at that any more than not purchasing the Fighters' Pass, I never do externally: it's always that internal bitter feeling. I try to downplay Joker's presence in Smash to mitigate this, but when he was the new hotness it was really hard. I like to think I've improved and gotten over it to many extents, but that first wound still burns quite a bit. I'm nowhere near as upset back when he was revealed or released, but it is still hard to like him when I think about how for a moment, Arle could've been happening.

I imagine I'm not the only one feeling this way, but not about Arle necessarily: I imagine this is where Incineroar got most of the heat from, stuff like "WHY THE **** IS IT HERE" when it was the face of the Box Theory, the cynic's choice vs the optimistic Grinch Hoax. It might've happened with less mature Dixie fans, and if Dixie and K. Rool were swapped at this point, I'm sure the outcry would be immense. It's why Banjo and Steve fans are constantly at war. It's why fans of nearly every Square Enix property that isn't DQ are fearful of any leak involving Erdrick. It's the idea that your most wanted character could be the next one shot down by competition. It's the idea that only one can happen, and if there's only one, then everybody's gonna fight over it, when that's not really what we SHOULD do. The idea of there only being one of X has never been confirmed: in fact, the Bowser Jr./Rosalina case is one that is slowly starting to bring me hope. The thing I can at least take solace in is that an Assist Trophy might be an upgrade to not being in, a Mii Costume is likely an upgrade to not being in, or even a Spirit would be an upgrade to not being in. Isaac fans learned this lesson in Smash 4, and now I can truly see it. And, yes, don't think I haven't taken into account that I'm simply too passionate about both Puyo Puyo and Smash Bros. in particular. I likely am, and so are many people who get overly worried by competition.

But I would never consider sending a death threat to somebody who wanted Tails or Kiryu or Jack Frost in. That's egregious, and horrific to boot. It's not wrong to hope somebody gets in trouble for something they can't take back. Being unhappy with a character is one thing, but being so unhappy you have to take it out on people who are? That's just really lame. I promise that I would never attack a fan of Joker or Persona 5, for any (Smash related) reason, regardless of how I feel about Joker getting in first. And I really feel that more people on Twitter, the GameFAQs Ultimate board, and some other places could stand to learn this lesson.

...this was supposed to be a continuation of how Undertale and its fanbase are terribly treated by the Smash community outside of here, and it became a rant about how competition turns Smash speculation into a hellhole if people get too worried about it.

* If it were to turn out a particular fan of Joker/P5 has done some pretty crappy things, then I would probably not feel bad making fun of them, but I probably wouldn't attack directly outside of call outs.
 

Robdelia

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Honestly Artorias is the main reason I want the Google Leak to be real, just because he'd be such a weird and interesting pick. He'd fit right in along with Dark Samus and I think his general "darkness" vibe is a fantastic way to represent Dark Souls as a whole. Also because a one-armed swordie doing flips and using darkness powers sounds awesome.
 

Iko MattOrr

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However, Akira and Jacky's Mii Fighter costumes did not come back, so this means that not all of the 3rd party Mii Fighter costumes from Smash 4 are coming back.
Yes, but I think that the Geno costume is an important one because of all the fans asking for the characters for decades... I doubt they will skip this one... unless it flopped in Smash 4 and we don't know because we can't see the sale data.

What are you some of the first party characters you see as viable, if I may ask?
I don't have a proper list, though there are some spots were the Spirits are lacking.
This includes the "missing spirits" we discussed a lot before (one of which is my most wanted), and stuff like classic Ganon (since there are 2 spirits of Ganon but none of them represent his classic desing); or a new gen Pokèmon.

Since I overall prefer first parties over third parties, and since I like most of those characters that are hinted by the missing spirits, I'd like if the first parties are some of them.


Also There's a suspicious situation about the Kirby series in general....

-No music comes from the Dark Matter trilogy, aside of the Brawl 02 remix and a first level song ripped from Kirby 64

-There is plenty of spirits from Kirby's Dream Land 2 and 3, but zero (the number) spirits from Kirby 64

-All the spirits of the "Dream Friends" use old artworks, even the Three Mage Sisters spirit uses the base artwork and not the Dream Friend version... this opens the possibility for a case similar to the Let's Go Pikachu and Eevee spirits where the characters appear twice with a different name (they could add a set of spirits from Star Allies called Dream Friend *character*).

All of this makes me hope for a Kirby character in the pass... while there is that suspicious lack of Kirby 64 content that would make me hope for Adeleine, it's not necessarily her, I think any of the Dream Friends have a little chance of being in the fighter pass (aside of Marx that's a boss), still only if the spirits thing is true.
 

Ovaltine

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Messages
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Yes, but I think that the Geno costume is an important one because of all the fans asking for the characters for decades... I doubt they will skip this one... unless it flopped in Smash 4 and we don't know because we can't see the sale data.
Dear god, unless they plan for him to playable, that would shatter my heart into pieces if they omitted that costume. I don't even want to think about it... but it's unfortunately a possibility. This is Square we're talking about...
 
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I seriously doubt the Google "leak", but it did get me interested in the idea of Artorias.
 
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